Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:08:14 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: COZY: Chap. 7: NACA construction question In Chap. 7, Step 1, what is the proper position for plywood pieces "D"? If I use the distance from the bottom of the aft LG bulkhead and firewall measured from large drawing M-9, there is a gap between "C" and "D". Is that correct or should "D" abut "C"? Thanks for your advice. -- Jody Hart, New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648, N359JH (reserved) Chapter 7, see latest progress at: Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:27:18 +0000 From: Paul Kuntz Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 7: NACA construction question Joseph H. Hart IV wrote: > > In Chap. 7, Step 1, what is the proper position for plywood pieces > "D"? If I use the distance from the bottom of the aft LG bulkhead and > firewall measured from large drawing M-9, there is a gap between "C" and > "D". Is that correct or should "D" abut "C"? Joe, I put the "D" pieces at the vertical position indicated on drawing M-9. Before I cut the "D" pieces to the dimensions shown in Chapter 7, I checked the actual space where they would go. As I recall it matched pretty close. I also recall that after floxing them in place at the indicated position between the bulkheads there was something of a gap between the "C" and "D" pieces at the firewall. I think they abutted each other at the landing gear bulkhead. Not to worry -- after all the interior and exterior glass reinforcements that get added later, they will be well tied together structurally, both to each other and to the firewall and bulkhead. Regard, Paul Kuntz Cozy MKIV England Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 15:20:07 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: COZY: Q re: Tapering Fuselage sides In Chap. 7, step 2, which refers to large drawing M-8, is the side tapered only between W.L. 6 and approx. W.L. 10 1/2 or is it tapered all the way up to the top of the sides? I'm pretty sure that it is the former; however, for some reason I am not fully conceptualizing this enough to be sure. Thanks in advance. -- Jody Hart, New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648, N359JH (reserved) Chapter 6, see latest progress at: Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:03:18 -0500 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Q re: Tapering Fuselage sides "Joseph H. Hart IV" wrote: > > In Chap. 7, step 2, which refers to large drawing M-8, is the side > tapered only between W.L. 6 and approx. W.L. 10 1/2 or is it tapered all > the way up to the top of the sides? exerting minimal brain power on my part (i don't fully understand your question), i will simply say that there are six or seven alternative explanations of this(?) hard-to-describe process in the archives. our faq, http://cozy.canard.com/mail_list/cozy-faq.html offers the following version: 7.5 - When shaping the rear of the fuselage, the plans describe the horizontal dimensions of the area to be removed, but what about the vertical extent? Visualize a hot wire cutter, one side fastened on a pivot 25 inches forward of the firewall, right on the edge of the foam at the "top" corner (top because the fuse is upside down). Now visualize how the foam will be cut if you take your imaginary hot wire cutter and slide it along the firewall, with the other end staying put on the pivot, from the bottom to the small triangle of the lower firewall. You will have cut out roughly a triangle of varying depth, deeper at the firewall, shallower toward the front (with no foam cut out in front of the wing spar cutout). Stop shaping if you get down as far as the electrical channel (which most people seem to). As the plans point out, it's not very important how it looks ahead of the spar cutout as this area is hidden under the strake. -- bil Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:34:39 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: COZY: Q re: Contouring Bottom Corner Whew! I'm starting to relive my Chap. 4 jitters as I enter the exterior fuselage contouring/glassing stage; thus, all the questions. : ) My bottom corner template does not match the curvature of F-22 very well. My instinct tells me that the exact curvature doesn't matter, just the smoothness of the curve, and to go ahead and match the curvature of F-22. How's my instinct doing? -- Jody Hart, New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648, N359JH (reserved) Chapter 6, see latest progress at: Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:48:55 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: Fwd: COZY: Q re: Contouring Bottom Corner Joseph H. Hart writes; > My bottom corner template does not match the curvature of F-22 very >well. My instinct tells me that the exact curvature doesn't matter, >just the smoothness of the curve, and to go ahead and match the >curvature of F-22. How's my instinct doing? Bingo. -- Marc J. Zeitlin marcz@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:44:14 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: COZY: Flox Step Reinforcement? Man....have I been a pest lately or what?! : ) Today, I carved out the foam for the step reinforcement and was surprised at how thin that area is -- in my case, about .25" at its thickest point. I checked the archives and saw that Wayne Hicks had the same reaction and that no one seemed to think anything of it, so I assume that this is not a cause for concern (please speak up if I SHOULD be concerned!). Wayne also mentioned as an aside that he might as well have just floxed in this area rather than carved a piece of wood for it. I'd like to do just that. It seems to me that the flox is just as strong, even stronger, than wood would be. However, I assume that not all of their qualities would be comparable -- e.g. wood is probably more flexible than flox. Does anyone see any problem with filling in this area with flox rather than wood? It sure would be easier to use flox! Thanks in advance. -- Jody Hart, New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648, N359JH (reserved) Chapter 7, see latest progress at: From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Flox Step Reinforcement? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:17:52 -0600 Wayne, Wood is a carry over from the long EZ. We filled the space on our plans model with birch plywood, which has very strong compressive strength. Ours has withstood many two hundred plus prospects stepping on it. If you do it some otherway, please let us know how it turns out. Regards, Nat ---------- > From: L. Wayne Hicks > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Flox Step Reinforcement? > Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 5:41 PM > > Joseph H. Hart IV wrote: > > > Does anyone see any problem with filling in this > > area with flox rather than wood? > > ----> > > Could this wood piece be a carryover from the Long EZ? If I'm not > mistaken, the sides on the Long-EZ are 3/4-inch thick. The wood piece > there would be thicker, easier, and weigh less than flox. I'm sure Nat > will answer the question. When he does can you let me know so I can > change the archives if necessary? > > Wayne Hicks > Cozy IV #678 > Chapter 10...and loving it. From: "John Slade" Subject: COZY: Chap 7 - shaping Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:32:25 -0400 Hello all, I'm stalled in Chap 7 waiting for antenna parts, so I started examining my contours from bottom to sides. I notice that, rather than a totally smooth curve, I have a small (1/16 - 1/8) bump where the longeron shows since the foam sanded easier than the wood and I went a little too far. Looks something like ---- \ \- \ / / I haven't seen anything about fixing this kind of mistake. The plans simply say "be careful not to do it". :} I figure that shaping before glassing is going to be better than shaping after glassing, so I've started correcting the shape with micro. Seems to be going ok, but it's slow work and I'm probably starting to get too picky. I suppose I could use thin foam slivers, but its hard to get a taper with foam. What's the consensus on getting "perfect" shape at this stage? Am I wasting my time? Should I consider using something like Superfil? One other related question... Any reason why I shouldnt glass the sides before the bottom? John Slade #757 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:24:06 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Hart" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 7 - shaping John Slade wrote: > What's the consensus on getting "perfect" shape at this stage? Am I wasting > my time? Should I consider using something like Superfil? John, I can't speak for any "consensus" but I found that I was living in dreamland if I expected to perfectly contour at this stage. I am sure that others have done this successfully but I decided that the pleasure that I get out of building was going to be seriously compromised if I spent any more time trying to get these inconsistent media perfectly shaped. As long as it is very close (and I believe that 1/16" - 1/8" constitutes "very close") you are not compromising the structure as a result of these imperfections. Thus, the issue becomes one of personality. If you are the type of person that is going to be forever disappointed that you chose to fill later rather than get it perfect before glassing, fix it. However, I would recommend using either micro or flox, depending upon the thickness of the fill, rather than Superfill. Although Superfill may be fine and I am sure that builders will argue that Superfill is stronger than foam and therefore will not constitute a "weak link," I try to be a purist on materials to make up for my lack of perfection in techniques! > One other related question... Any reason why I shouldnt glass the sides > before the bottom? I doubt that it would make a structural difference but why do it? The bottom is the first exterior layup so that you get some more practice before you do the more visible sides. I'd stick to the plans on this one. -- Jody Hart Cozy Mark IV plans 648, Chap. 7, progress at: http://members.home.net/jodyhart/index.html From: "james leturgey" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 7 - shaping Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:24:43 PDT Hi John; Most of the guys in my area like to correct this type problem with pour in place foam. Just brush some on and you'll have plenty of buildup to sand back down to contour and there is only a 30 minute wait before contouring. Much lighter than micro. Jim (Longeze 537JL) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:37:06 -0400 From: Carl Denk Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 7 - shaping Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:37:06 -0400 From: Carl Denk Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 7 - shaping Probably the easiest thing is fill with micro, and sand. Its important when contouring to have the sandpaper glued to a hard surface with no padding. Then it acts like a file or wood plane, ONLY cutting high spots! Its hard when there is harder material next to soft, but slow and easy with hard sharp abrasive material will do it. John Slade wrote: From: "Chris Byrne" Subject: COZY: Chpt 7 Side Layup Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:59:26 +1000 Builders Am just about to start the layups on the outside of the fuse and am wondering if the cloth and the 3 layers of 5" 4" & 3" UNI that run along the top longeron should wrap around onto the front face of F28 in the canard cut out area. ( I think not but thought I would make sure). Thanks to anyone who can shed a bit of light on this for me. Chris Byrne Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:48:09 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: Fwd: COZY: Chpt 7 Side Layup Chris Byrne wrote; >wondering if the cloth and the 3 layers of 5" 4" & 3" UNI that run along the >top longeron should wrap around onto the front face of F28 in the canard cut >out area. ( I think not but thought I would make sure). You are correct. You'd have a hard time wrapping it around and getting it to lay flat without bubbles anyway. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marcz@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:53:29 +0200 From: "Rego Burger" Subject: COZY: Fuel valve location I thought I built my aircraft pretty accurately, however now that I finally want to mount the fuel lines I find the AN fittings do not fit on the right side ( viewed from rear seat ) of the fuel valve. The clash is with the landing break pulley. I can't think back where I messed up but did a quick measurement from the center of the pulley shaft up to the fuel fitting and it is within 1 or 2 mm (1/16") of the profile as per large drawings. Caution / advice to early builders, raise the location of the fuel valve mounting bracket 1/4" (6,35mm). This will give enough clearance. What to do now that mine is set in stone is another issue...sigh. Rego Burger RSA Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:49:01 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: COZY: Re: [c-a] Outside fuselage lay-up I checked my building record on this subject and here's what is recorded. The outside fuselage was glassed in 4 sessions. NACA scoop area - 4 hours Fuselage bottom - 5 hours Left side - 6 hours Right side - 6 hours Time to glass outside = 21 hours. Total time to this point in project (chapters 4-7) = 186.5 hours. dd From: "Oreste Muccilli" Subject: COZY: Ch 7 Position of the birch plywood pieces "D" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:56:38 +0200 Hi all, I must install the birch plywood pieces called "D" ( Ch7 page 1 fig. 6. The manual say:<< the birch plywood brace is installed horizontally between aft landing gear bulkhead and firewall>>, in fact on large drawing M-9 it is in horizontally position . But if the edge of the birch plywood brace "D" must to meet the edge of the birch plywood "C" in this manner it is not in horizontally position but almost parallel at the lower longeron. In fact in Ch7 page 1 Fig. 4 and in picture in page Ch7 page 6 it is almost parallel at the lower longeron. Please can somebody give me a suggestion about the exact position? Thank you and good building Oreste Muccilli ITALY http://home.intekom.com/glen/italy.htm Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:11:30 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Ch 7 Position of the birch plywood pieces "D" Oreste Muccilli wrote: >But if the edge of the birch plywood brace "D" must to meet the edge of the >birch plywood "C" in this manner it is not in horizontally position but >almost parallel at the lower longeron. >In fact in Ch7 page 1 Fig. 4 and in picture in page Ch7 page 6 it is almost >parallel at the lower longeron. The object of these plywood pieces is to tie the firewall to the LG bulkheads structurally. The plans say "horizontal", but I think that the meaning is that it's lying flat, not standing on edge. You should follow the "Ch7 page 1 Fig. 4 and in picture in page Ch7 page 6" - that is the correct orientation. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marcz@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:08:42 -0400 From: Phillip Subject: COZY: Upper longeron layup I have a questoin about the upper longeron 4 uni layup. I have read the archieves, but did not see any reference to sanding the inside, bottom edge of the longeron. Do I leave it square the entire length....or do I radius this edge?? Thanks, Phillip Sill, #707 Chapter 5 From: Militch@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:35:48 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Upper longeron layup In a message dated 8/26/99 3:12:01 AM, LUV2AV8@compuserve.com wrote: >I have a questoin about the upper longeron 4 uni layup. I have read the >archives, but did not see any reference to sanding the inside, bottom edge >of the longeron. Do I leave it square the entire length....or do I radius >this edge?? > I laid the uni on as is, without any shaping of the longeron. It was a bit tedious, but using MGS epoxy and slow hardener, I had plenty of time. It worked well. Regards From: "Oreste Muccilli" Subject: R: COZY: Upper longeron layup Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:29:53 +0200 Phillip Sill wrote: >I have a questoin about the upper longeron 4 uni layup. I have read the >archieves, but did not see any reference to sanding the inside, bottom edge >of the longeron. Do I leave it square the entire length....or do I radius >this edge?? I made the bottom edge of the longeron with a radius for entire lenght, but not the big radius because the direction of the fibers (UND) is parallel at the bottom edge of the longeron. Oreste Muccilli Ch7 ITALY http://home.intekom.com/glen/italy.htm From: "DougSheph" Subject: COZY: Contouring the bottom Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:33:53 -0700 A comment and a question about shaping the fuselage bottom. First, the comment: A power plane works very well for contouring the bottom (and I suppose the top) edges. It removes material as fast or faster than a belt sander or surform plane, but it won't cut deeper than it's set for, so it can't get out of control and gouge the foam (provided you control the nose and sides of the plane -- guess who found out the hard way?). It also cuts the same depth whether the surface is hard or soft, so you can trim the bulkhead edges and the foam at the same time, which I've never been able to do very well any other way. Now the question: Even after checking the archives, I am unclear about the shape of the taper at the back of the fuse. When viewed from behind the firewall, should the line of foam where it meets the firewall. 1) go from zero thickness at the very bottom to full thickness just under the cosmetic piece on the firewall? OR 2) should the foam meet the firewall flush along the whole side up to the cosmetic piece? Would it be easier to remove the cosmetic piece now? I think the answers are 2) and YES, but I thought I'd check with you guys who are farther along to see if I'm missing something. That foam's a lot easier to take off than to put back on! From ???@??? Sat Oct 02 11:07:57 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id VAA17836 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16536 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:45:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (ha1.rdc2.mi.home.com [24.2.68.68]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16531 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:45:03 -0400 Received: from [24.10.58.126] by mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991003004241.PRUI11466.mail.rdc2.mi.home.com@[24.10.58.126]> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:42:41 -0700 X-Sender: skorija@mail.roalok1.mi.home.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:38:15 -0400 To: cozy_builders@betaweb.com From: skorija Subject: COZY: chap 7 outside glass Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skorija X-UIDL: 230645cfff9b6bbc1e6a1c85b3bc340f Hey what do youns (pronounced you unns or yuns) think of glassing the outside in one step - we have 4 experienced to this point on two planes - ??? Mike, Dave and the new addidion Thane - 591 and 656 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:40:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: chap 7 outside glass Thats the way I did it, had 2 experienced helpers and 6 novices. took 6 hours, less .5 hour wife prepared lunch break. Did one side, lunch break then the other side. With many hands, could take the precut glass stretch it out and gentle set in place. No time lost straightening fibers. Some helpers just mixed epoxy, others just slurry. With only 1 or 2 people, too much for 1 time, epoxy gels and can't squeege out, heavy weight. From: "cliffordfamily" Subject: COZY: chapter 7- contouring the fuselage bottom Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:30:57 -0400 We are building Cozy MKIV's # 591 & # 656 side by side and not only wanted the contouring to be identical left side to right, but also plane to plane. The contour forward of the landing brake was accomplished be making a 3" wide sanding block 10" X 10", out of a doubled up 2" x 10" glued together. We then traced the contour from the plans on the block marking the location of the exposed longeron after your 45 degree cut, and cut the contour out on the band saw. We left 1" on each end of the block and attatched a metal plate that was slightly thicker than our 36 grit zircon sand paper with that went in between both plates. We attatched both with contact cement and rounded over the edges of the metal plates and wood block to avoid gougeing the foam. The foam was roughed to the contour with saw and belt sander, then sanded to a perfect contour with the sanding block by sliding it up and down the the fusealage from f-22 to the landing brake. The metal pads keep the sand paper from over sanding. Just be carefull not to press too hard or you can wear a grove in the foam from the pads. Also, be carefull to keep the longeron location marked on the sanding block lined up with the exposed longeron. If you do gouge or accidently over sand, the pour foam patches it right up! Turn the block around for the opposit side. Four perfect and identical contours with little effort. Mark the "up" end of the block so you do not accidently get it flipped upside down during your sanding. The sanding block took about 20 minutes to make. The contours aft of the landing brake to the firewall were more of a challenge to get identical on both planes as it is a constantly changing contour. Starting with a hand held 1/4 sheet sander again loaded with the 36 grit zircon, roughing to a a nice transition, we finished the transition contour with a 5' long sanding block, again loaded with the 36 grit zircon. We worked only on one side until we were satisfied with what we had. We then marked forward of the firewall every 10" along the finished contour up to the landing brake with a marker. At each marked location, take a piece of soft wire or solder and bend it to fit the contour , transfering the shape onto a 10" X 10" X 1/2" peice of plywood and cutting that out. Number each location and template as you go, again marking the longeron location on eash template for a reference point. Tape a peice of wax paper over each location, mix up some bondo, squeeze a bead onto the inside contour of your cut out template and place against the wax paper at your reference marks, holding in place until bondo kicks. Remove template, peel off wax paper and trim squeeze out with a razor knife if still soft, otherwise wait till fully cured and sand off squeeze out. Line the trimmed template back up on your reference marks and mark the location of the longeron. We then used the templates as masters for the opposite side and second plane. Sand each reference point down with a small sanding block to fit each template which is easy to do. Mark the sanded area up with a felt tip marker. When all the reference points are sanded and marked, we again used a 5' sanding block and sanded across the reference areas until we were hitting all the felt tipped marks at once. Done. Again all sides and both planes contours are the same. The templates again only took about 20 minutes to make and were well worth the effort. We hope this helps out fellow builders. P.S. : The zircon sand paper is expensive and hard to find in a cloth back, but it lasts forever. Can't seem to wear it out no matter how much you use and abuse it. Cuts and wears like carbide. Its made by Norton. Sorry Nat, we know you retired from 3-M, but we havn't had any luck with their abrasive products. Dave # 656 Mike & Thane # 591 From ???@??? Tue Oct 05 07:08:17 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id LAA14203 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16386 for cozy_builders-list; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:12:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16380 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:12:35 -0400 From: Militch@aol.com Received: from Militch@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id hUNB0ZoLrI (3972) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7bdeaaa8.252b6ea3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:09:23 EDT Subject: COZY: Chapter 7 NACA scoop To: cozy_builders@canard.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Militch@aol.com X-UIDL: 2cc42050a06dad986f02a9cfda3db349 I made a dumb mistake this weekend which I will pass along on the off chance that there is someone else who just might do it. When you glue the foam on for the bottom, you leave it sticking up from the LG bulkhead by 1/8" to prepare for the joggle that will fit the landing gear cover. I didn't read the fine print. It says quite clearly in the plans to leave a 3/4" joggle. That means you need to mill the foam back a bit to increase the joggle from the 1/4" that the bulkhead thickness gives you to the 3/4" you actually need. The time to find this instruction is not when you have tried everything, the glass is starting to cure, and you just can't get it to stay down. I managed to lift the glass in the front part of the scoop, make the mod and get it all down, but I had to pull the glass out of the rear part of the scoop and re-do it the next day. With the joggle cut to the right size, it was easy the second time around. One side effect of this was that I got to try hard-shelling. The micro on the foam on the back part of the scoop cured overnight, so I had to sand it back to get a good surface for glassing. What a royal pain. I can't see any possible reason for wanting to do this voluntarily. I presume there is one, but it escapes me. This has reinforced a lesson I keep learning. Prepare twice, glass once!! Regards, Peter Militch Chapt 7 From: alwick@juno.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:15:18 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 NACA scoop Peter, if you use a yellow hi-liter on your plans it will greatly reduce chances of oversights. It also adds to your feeling of accomplishment. As each sentence of instructions is completed, hi-lite it. -regards -al On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:09:23 EDT Militch@aol.com writes: > > prepare for I made a dumb mistake this weekend which I will pass along on the off > > Peter Militch Chapt 7 ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From: "Hunter Welch" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 NACA scoop Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:10:50 -0700 In addition to the highlighter at the end of each chapter I have taken a red marker and "checked" off the steps to be sure that I did not forget something. Then I stamp on the first page of the chapter "completed" Bw -----Original Message----- From: alwick@juno.com To: cozy_builders@canard.com Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 NACA scoop >Peter, if you use a yellow hi-liter on your plans it will greatly reduce >chances of oversights. It also adds to your feeling of accomplishment. As >each sentence of instructions is completed, hi-lite it. >-regards > >-al > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:09:23 EDT Militch@aol.com writes: >> >> prepare for I made a dumb mistake this weekend which I will pass along >on the off >> >> Peter Militch Chapt 7 > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > From: Militch@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:42:19 EDT Subject: COZY: Foam between LG bulkheads Two small birch triangles sit on the lower longeron on each side between the LG bulkheads, to act as braces. I assume the landing gear will come close to touching them when it is finally installed. My question is, what do I do with the small space on the outside of those A and B braces? When building the NACA scoop (in front of the forward bulkhead) and filling in the space between the rear LG bulkhead and the firewall, the instructions are quite explicit with regard to gluing in and shaping the urethane foam. I don't see instructions for doing the same with the small space I refer to here. Since I will be glassing the sides soon, and since other builders pictures clearly show that urethane foam was used to fill in that spot, I assume I am missing the blindingly obvious. Can some kind soul point out the location of the instructions that cover this particular piece of work? Peter Militch #740 Chapt 7 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:22:56 -0400 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: Re: COZY: Foam between LG bulkheads Militch@aol.com wrote: Can some kind soul point out the location of the > instructions that cover this particular piece of work? > ---------> Nope, there are no instructions that I know of. All I did when glassing the outsides was to have enough cloth there so as to wet out the cloth over the outsides of the triangles (A&B), over the tops, around the insides, then lapping one inch onto the inner sides. I did alot of scissor-trimming, but I don't think I had to cut any darts into the cloth. It did take awhile to get the complex curves to lay down over the triangles. Good Luck! Wayne Hicks http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:05:55 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Foam between LG bulkheads Peter Militch wrote: >...Can some kind soul point out the location of the >instructions that cover this particular piece of work? Contrary to my esteemed colleague (and I mean that with all due respect :-) ) Wayne Hicks' opinion, the plans do, in fact, clearly state what to do here. On page 7-1, second paragraph from the bottom, it states: "After these pieces are in place, cut 1 in. thick urethane blocks to fit outside of the plywood pieces and micro them in place". Now, it may seem as though this is only referring to the plywood pieces "C" and "D", but it's actually referring to "A" and "B" as well. Hope this helps. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marcz@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/ From: Militch@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:05:08 EDT Subject: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall I will be glassing the sides shortly. A number of people have suggested taking this opportunity to run conduits through the foam for various cables, vacuum lines, etc. Has anyone done this and do they have a recommendation for numbers, size, specific location and routing, etc. Regards, Peter Militch Cozy Mk IV Chapt 7/8 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall If I remember right: bowden cables for cabin heat and shut off cabin air at firewall Bowden or cablecraft cables for trottle and mixture 5/8" aluminum vacuum tube (2) brake lines ( some people are using 1/8" I.D. stainless tubing Heavy Electric cables to/from battery, forward ground point, breaker/fuse buss - depends on location battery, etc. 1" square fiberglass wiring duct for small electrical wires including antennas, the heavy are run outside these ducts and held with fiberglass BID straps. Make holes in the duct for breakouts at various locations, run a branch to the forward top face of the spar for strobe power supply, my battery location, starter and master relays, etc. on forward firewall face. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:57:01 -0700 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall >I will be glassing the sides shortly. A number of people have suggested >taking this opportunity to run conduits through the foam for various cables, >vacuum lines, etc. Has anyone done this and do they have a recommendation for >numbers, size, specific location and routing, etc. > >Regards, > Peter Militch Cozy Mk IV Chapt 7/8 I'm not a big fan of conduits through ANY firewall. Sometimes, it is unavoidable, but if possible, use something else. For wiring, there are nice, robust, mil-spec bulkhead-mount plugs (Cannon, or similar) that can be obtained with any imaginable combination of sizes and types of conductor pins. For plumbing, there are also bulkhead feedthrough fittings that you can screw onto, or are hose-barbed, or whatever is needed. Not only do holes or conduits provide for an unwanted path for fumes or fire, they just don't work as well, over time. I still remember oil dripping on my passenger's sandaled feet in my Cherokee, due to a leak in the oil pressure line where it passed through Piper's idea of a bullet-proof special anti-chafe support. It took a lot of years, but chafe eventually got to the line, and the worn spot was invisible without disassembly. I replaced it with a standard AN bulkhead feedthrough fitting, and the problem was solved, for good. This is a little extra work and expense, but it can make the difference between a poor installation and a truly quality one. -Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 From: Militch@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:59:37 EDT Subject: Re: Re: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall In a message dated 10/25/99 8:21:31 PM, hrogers@slac.stanford.edu wrote: >I'm not a big fan of conduits through ANY firewall. Sometimes, it is >unavoidable, but if possible, use something else. For wiring, there are Sounds reasonable to me, but conduits would be useful to neatly get the wires and pipes from the equipment to the bulkhead connectors on the firewall. A lot of good suggestions were posted in this regard. Regards, Peter Militch From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall The only liquid or pressure carrying line through my firewall is the gasoline with a steel bulkhead fitting through the firewall. The gascolator is screwed directly onto that fitting. With respect to electrical connectors just to go through a bulkhead, they are heavy, the connector pins are subject to electrical failure, and the wires are subject to a more of a chance of fatigue failure. Proper attention to the support and pass through details can be very durable. From: "Todd Carrico" Subject: Re: Re: COZY: Conduits through the sides of the firewall Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:54:25 PDT Peter Militch wrote: >Sounds reasonable to me, but conduits would be useful to neatly get the wires >and pipes from the equipment to the bulkhead connectors on the firewall. A >lot of good suggestions were posted in this regard. Many suggestions that *sound* good, aren't necessarily good. I don't like wires in conduits, in airplanes. They can vibrate and chafe inside, and you will never know it, because you can't see them. Where does the heat go? I would rather see well supported wire bundles in adel clamps, spaced sufficiently close to prevent movement due to vibration. They are inspectable, and they have air circulation. As for pipes,... why would they need conduits? -Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 I think that AC43-13 specifies adel clamp every 18". Good rule of thumb. You could cover the wires with a loose fitting cover. Out of site, breathing, and inspectable. tc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: "Denis Thomassin" Subject: COZY: Fuselage bottom deformation Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:39:30 -0500 I floxed the bottom to the fuselage couple of days ago and everything fit perfectly. Saturday I cutted the foam for the NACA Scoop that sit on the bottom fuselage just in front of the fwd landging gear bulkhead. The plan call say to micro the surface, place it in position and allowd to cure with some weight on it to be sure there is a good contact. I put to much weight. The contact is perfet but the bottom, in the middle as now a little depression. Maybe .15 of an inche at the deepest. The side are ok (of course they are supported by the longeron) the end also ok because it is supported by a temporary piece of wood glued to the landing gear bulkhead. Should I care about this. Is it possible to correct this by applying a pressure by they inside while doing the bottom outside layup ?. Scrap the floor (hope not) ??? Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:17:02 -0500 From: Jeff Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Fuselage bottom deformation Denis Thomassin wrote: > > I put to much weight. The contact is perfet but the bottom, > in the middle as now a little depression. > Should I care about this. Yes, if you leave it as is, that will be how much fill you will need to straighten it out. > Is it possible to correct this by applying a pressure by they inside > while doing the bottom outside layup ?. You might try heating the inside and applying pressure and letting it cool down before skinning the outside. You could always sand out a high spot if you went a little far. > Scrap the floor (hope not) ??? not, try your way or mine and you should be right on track again. hope that helps -- Jeff From: DasherIII@cs.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:51:07 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Fuselage bottom deformation Hello! I did the same thing when I installed the bottom. The only difference is that I had to let the bottom cure prior to installing it to the sides. After cure it had several areas that were not completely flat as they should be. I went ahead and installed it on the fuselage sides. I had to weight it down with approximately 300 lbs to get it flat, but there were still some areas, primarily just behind the instrument panel, that were somewhat depressed compared to the midline. I had our local fiberglass expert, Herb Sanders (has built several canard aircraft), come by and check it out. He said he didn't think it would be a problem, especially after filling and sanding. Will Dasher Chapter 7 Memphis, TN From: dhill36@juno.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:57:15 -0500 Subject: COZY: Ch 7 - Addition to FAQ? I almost had a time consuming problem on my hands.....after microing and placing the 2" and 1" urethane on the bottom for the NACA I weighed the foam down with a bunch of weights. Upon returning the next day, there was some slight downward deflection of my formerly perfectly flat bottom. Its really not that bad but I could see how it could have easily been worse....and after all I hadn't yet sanded the foam yet :-). To the FAQ keeper, suggested addition for Ch 7: To ensure no deflection to the bottom, prior to weighing down the NACA urethane foam after microing, adequately brace the bottom from inside the fuselage, about 12" forward of the forward landing gr bulkhead. This should be easy using the top longerons as support for a padded brace of some sort. D. Hill CZ IV #676 ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.