From: "wydo van de waerdt" <wydo.vandewaerdt@fae.storkgroup.com>
Subject: COZY: Pre-build, prefab parts, value for money
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:58:51 +0200

Dear builders,

I would like to know what prefab parts to buy and which not.
Please reply your experience with prefab parts.

This is what every pre-builder wants to know, so let's do it thoroughly
Use the following format, so it can be used in the archives of this mailing
list.
I know there has been some answer's on these type of questions by Marc
Zeitlin.
Please inform the Pre-builders with your experience !!

Prefab:          Skinned wings
Manufacturer: company-X
Price:              $2500,-
Quality:          Outstanding - bad
Hours saved:   At least 40 hours
Description:    Perfect fit very good value for money.
                      Next time I do it myself, waste of money !!

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Wydo van de Waerdt (NL)
Cozy MkIV #????:PRE-BUILD

Please delete what's written above  and reply.

Prefab parts, value for money ??


Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:19:22 -0400
From: Jeff Russell <JRaero@gte.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Pre-build, prefab parts, value for money

wydo van de waerdt wrote:
> 
> Dear builders,
> 
> I would like to know what prefab parts to buy and which not.
> Please reply your experience with prefab parts.
> 
> This is what every pre-builder wants to know
> Please inform the Pre-builders with your experience !!

Wydo, Dennis Oelmann has built both a plans built Cozy and a
Cozy built by a kit sold by AeroCad.  He has made many wings per
plans using raw material and also built them using our quick
build parts.  He could hopefully give some comments on what time
it saved in the building of these parts and if he would do it
that way again.  There are very few people on this builders form
that have built more than one airplane.  The ones that have might
not have built using a kit or pre-fab parts as a replacement.

I can tell you that it took me 4000 man hours to build my 3 place
Cozy in 3 years.  My dad and I then built a Velocity RG kit and had
the airframe finished in 4 months working about 6 hours a day.  The 
major difference was this airframe was built from pre-fab parts and this
was
airplane number 3.  The first time you build a part, it is a learning 
curve.  When you build it again you can improve your techniques.  

1)  I think this builders form is a great place to find the best and 
newest techniques out there. 

2)  Pre-fab parts use techniques that incorporate better time savings
on how the parts goes together.  This can save major time.  Remember
that
a first time builder using pre-fab might not use all of the best
techniques
to use the parts.  This can slow the process down.  This is where
training, 
better plans, updates on techniques changes or videos showing
construction.

3)  New or better building techniques can insure what the quality and 
conformity of the part will be.

We have over 20 pre-fab parts/kits for the Cozy that are approved by
Co-Z
Development.  These parts use the new techniques, newest materials and
have
saved hundreds of hours off the building of Cozy aircraft.

We will soon have a full list up on the website on what we have on the 
video tapes that come with our parts.  I feel that if most people would 
read the chapter in the plans on the part they are going to build,  
then look at the video that we use with our parts, you would see the 
building difference in techniques and see how the time savings comes  
in to play.

Hopefully Dennis could breakdown what he thinks are big time savers 
on pre-fab kits.

If anyone else has built both ways or has seen our videos, I would 
love to hear their experience.

-- 
Jeff

From: alwick@juno.com
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:50:56 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild, what can I expect if ordering the kits ??

I bought all mine at one time (or so intentioned) from spruce. It was 11
boxes that totalled 619 lbs. That doesn't include anything but spruce
parts. After unpacking it all fit into room smaller than 10'x 6'. I was
quite surprised. I posted a while back, should be in archives. It's been
over 4 years ago. Only 3 boxes were of any volume. 3' x 2' x2', and 4' x
6' x 2' and 4' x 4' x6'.

Sorry I don't have any more details. Watch out for errors from supplier.
Even after all the orders they have filled, their parts list has many
many errors. Both Spruce and WIcks. Cozy plans have quite a few fastener
errors too. All other aspects of plans are super. I didn't order all the
parts specified. I made my own "Brock" parts. Fun and easy if you have
access to lathe and mill.

Hope this helps
-al

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:50:33 +0200 "wydo van de waerdt"
<wydo.vandewaerdt@fae.storkgroup.com> writes:
> Dear builders,
> 
> Can someone tell me if I order all kits at Aircraft Spruce at once;
> What is the Weight
> What is the Volume
> 
> This stuff should be shipped to Europe, The Netherlands to be exact.
> Should I think of a total sea carrier container, or just a small 
> part of it
> ??
> 
> Please give me some info, I can't imagine how much space it will 
> take ???
> Draw for me that virtual picture and reply.
> 
> Regards,
> Wydo van de Waerdt (NL)
> Cozy MkIV #????:PRE-BUILD
> 
> 
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From: "Richard  Goodwin" <richgoodwin@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild, what can I expect if ordering the kits ??
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:10:46 +0100

I am building in England.  You can get most of the stuff here or in Europe.
Eg the glass cloth from interglass by the 100m roll. Epoxy from MGS. Foam
from Divinicel.  It will work out cheaper.  Give me a shout if you want
addresses.
Richard Goodwin



Date: 	Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:50:32 -0600
From: "Capital Steel Inc." <capitalsteel@compusmart.ab.ca>
Subject: COZY: Volume

Wydo
Volume is about 5.5 x 5 x 8 feet, except for the container for the
longerons which took about 2.5 x 7 inches x 9 feet.
Joe

From: "Larry & Jenny Schuler" <lschuler@g2a.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence.
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:49:17 -0500

>Please give me a few suggestions on  useful books / video, you think are a
>good investment for doing lay-ups.
>I am in Europe so I can't attend a composite workshop in the USA.
>

Single best thing you could do for "how to", is "to do".  Absolutely nothing
like learning by doing.  Try to find someone nearby (few hours drive is good
investment) who is building a composite anything, and offer to help for a
weekend (or more).  If you can find two or three builders, even better.  You
will get several ideas and learn different things from each.  On the flip
side, you may get some ready assistance from them when you need help later.

I was fortunate enough to attend the free Oshkosh workshops several years
running and learned something different from each demonstrator/instructor
and got some free hands-on time each time.  I learned the most from Jeff
Russell.  He has a knack (patience mostly) for, and willingness to explain
things and easily discusses various ideas about construction and methods,
not necessarily related to his own designs.  Very unselfish fellow.  Thanks
Jeff.

Also,  Check our archives for tons of good info and suggestions.  Lots of
different things that work well for some and not others.

For me, reading and watching videos is one thing; nothing really 'sticks'
until I do it myself.   :-)    There is no substitute for getting epoxy on
your gloves...

Larry

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence.
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:56:15 -0500

Dear Wydo,
Sorry for the delay in answering your question, but we were exhibiting our
Cozy at the Copperstate regional fly-in for the past several days. On
Friday night we entertained about 35 builders and guests at our house for a
barbeque. 
The educational chapter in the construction manual was designed to provide
the necessary information, background, and educational exercises for
builders such as you, so that extra books, workshops, and videos would not
be necessary. Perhaps thousands of Variezes, Long EZs, Defiants, and Cozys
have been built with only this educational chapter as background, and with
no previous experience. All you need in addition to this chapter is
confidence. Builders keep telling me how they are amazed at how well things
fit together when they follow the plans and instructions.
Regards,
Nat

----------
> From: wydo van de waerdt <wydo.vandewaerdt@fae.storkgroup.com>
> To: cozy_builders@canard.com
> Subject: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence.
> Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 1:03 AM
> 
> Dear builders,
> 
> Please give me a few suggestions on  useful books / video, you think are
a
> good investment for doing lay-ups.
> I am in Europe so I can't attend a composite workshop in the USA.
> 
> Regards,
> Wydo van de Waerdt
> #???? Pre-build
> 

