From: Militch@aol.com
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:53:40 EST
Subject: COZY: Aft landing gear attach bulkhead

I looked in the archives, but didn't find an answer. The drawing for the aft
landing gear attach bulkhead shows the orientation for the 8 layers of uni on
one side and the three on the other side.  I interpret the drawing to mean
that the uni does not cover the entire bulkhead, but is layed on the left side
at 340 degrees true and on the right side at 20 degrees true (the bottom of
the bulkhead being on the 90/270 degree line) in such a way that it covers
that the bulkhead tab and a lower section formed by extending a line from the
inner edge of the tab. Is this correct?

Thanks also for the replies I received on angle measurement tools.

Thanks,
  Peter Militch  Cozy Mark IV #740

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:27:09 -0500
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: Fwd: COZY: Aft landing gear attach bulkhead

Peter Militch wrote:

>I looked in the archives, but didn't find an answer.

The right first sentence :-).

>......layed on the left side
>at 340 degrees true and on the right side at 20 degrees true (the bottom of
>the bulkhead being on the 90/270 degree line) in such a way that it covers
>that the bulkhead tab and a lower section formed by extending a line from the
>inner edge of the tab.

That's how I did it.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin           marcz@ultranet.com
                          http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/

From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:07:49 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft landing gear attach bulkhead 

Peter Militch wrote:

>The drawing for the aft landing gear attach bulkhead shows the orientation 
>for the 8 layers of uni on one side and the three on the other side.
>snip

Sounds like you read it the same way I did.

Larry

Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:18:39 -0500
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: COZY: seatback sides

bil kleb writes;

>"Mark D. Wunduke" wrote:
>> 
>>  Are these "sides" glass over or are they left bare foam
>> to be later floxed at the joining of the fuselage.
>
>  4.6 - Do you cover the cutout areas (notches) in the seat
>  back with BID or leave them uncovered? 
>
>  There's no need to cover the notches or exposed foam. You'll
>  apply flox to the exposed edges and 2-BID tape the entire seat
>  back in place during fuselage assembly in Chapter 6.

I believe Mark was referring to the SIDES of the bulkhead, not the notches.
 In this case, refer to figure 5, section A-A on page 1 of Chapter 4.  You
can see that the 1 BID of glass does in fact, wrap over the sides of the
bulkhead, as well as over the flox corners on the top and bottom.  If the
FAQ is really addressing this issue, then it should probably be changed to
indicate the correct procedure as shown in the plans (although I would
probably agree that structurally it wouldn't make a difference if you
wrapped the glass over the sides or not - on none of the other bulkheads is
that done).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin           marcz@ultranet.com
                          http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/

From: "John Slade" <jslade@adelphia.net>
Subject: COZY: Chap 4 - foam cutting
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:50:32 -0500

I cut my F22 last night. It went very well. I've read lots of archive stuff
about CAD, tracing, drawing accuracy etc. and I thought I'd share the method
I used.

On the theory that I'm building only one of these I cut up the M4 drawing so
I could see the critical edges. Following the layout diagram in Chap 2, I
laid the drawing upside down on the left side of the foam, pinned it in
place and used a v sharp pencil to poke through the lines. Then I laid the
drawing right side up on the right side of the foam matching the center line
and poked some more. Once the drawing was removed I had a "join the dots"
shape.  I drew the lines in pencil, then checked the measurements between
various lines with those on the drawing. I cut with a stanley knife and had
a nice looking F22 & doubler in about 1 hour.  Looking at someones pictures
of F22 on their web site helped. I couldn't find anything in the plans about
cutting the doubler - just the layout in Chap 2 and placing it later. Not
much on M4 about it either. A few words about the doubler on M4 would have
helped. (next edition, Nat?). In general the plans drawings worked well once
I figured them out.  Someone in the archives said keep the big picture in
mind, so I thought about where the curve I was cutting would go in the
airplane. The curve which matches the fuselage I cut REAL carefully. The one
above my legs in the cutout I cut with care, but a little faster knowing
this just had to be close and look good.

One question:
The pieces needed to join the top and bottom of F22 are really small - about
1.5 inches. Why does the Chap 2 foam layout show them coming from three
seperate pieces of scrap?
John Slade


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:05:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 4 - foam cutting

Was Said <I cut the original drawing>
I heartly recommend keeping the originals intact! Although this one might never be used, I have numerous times referred to the 
originals for details and dimensions in the 5 years of flying.

From: "John Slade" <jslade@adelphia.net>
Subject: COZY: Chap 4 - foam cutting
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:02:16 -0500

>Was Said <I cut the original drawing>
>I heartly recommend keeping the originals intact! Although this one might
never be used, I have numerous times referred to the originals for details
and dimensions in the 5 years of flying.
I put the pieces of the originals in an envelope attached to my plans.
Nothing is lost.


From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 4- Instrument panel drawings
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:16:37 -0600

John,
Both work, but I like M-3 best.
Nat

----------
> From: John Slade <jslade@adelphia.net>
> To: Cozy Builders <cozy_builders@canard.com>
> Subject: COZY: Chap 4- Instrument panel drawings
> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:17 PM
> 
> Its me again.
> I'm ready to cut out the instrument panel, then I noticed an anomoly in
the
> drawings / pictures.
> The two photo's of the instrument panel on page 4.4 clearly show material
> around the hole for the electrical conduit. The edge of the hole appears
to
> be parallel to the slightly larger cutout above it.  Page 4.2 Fig II
shows
> the elect hole offset further to the right so that it intersects with the
> edge of the panel. The drawing M3 agrees with page 4.2 fig II.  Was the
plan
> for the elect conduit moved after the photos were taken?
> 
> I took me a while to figure out that "before carving" and "after carving"
on
> M4 refer to the fuslage bottom construction.
> John Slade
> 
> 

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:04:51 -0500
From: Austin <jaustin@hotmail.com>
Subject: COZY: Trouble visualizing!

Builders,
     I think I have built it right, but I still cannot figure out this
view in my plans (#706). Chapter 4 Page 1. In the lower right hand
corner, Fig. 5 is comprised of two seperate drawings. The upper drawing
on the work bench is easily understood. My brain refuses to understand
the lower drawing. I know that I am NOT supposed to round and glass the
side edges of the seatback.What edge is this drawing looking at? The
seatback turned out pretty nice (I think?).
    It's probably obvious, but I just don't see it.
Thanks,
John Austin Millington


Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:00:16 -0600
From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" <jodyhart@communique.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Trouble visualizing!



Austin wrote:

> I know that I am NOT supposed to round and glass the
> side edges of the seatback.What edge is this drawing looking at?

John:

    I am not at home so I can't look at my seatback; however, I seem to
recall having the exact same question and posting it back in October or so
of last year.  As I recall, you DO round the sides of the seatback.  I
never understood why, unless it was simply for practice!

    Check the archives to confirm what I am saying.

Good luck with your project.

Jody Hart

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:14:37 -0800
From: Michael Antares <mantares@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Trouble visualizing!

At 11:04 AM 3/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Builders,
>     I think I have built it right, but I still cannot figure out this
>view in my plans (#706). Chapter 4 Page 1. In the lower right hand
>corner, Fig. 5 is comprised of two seperate drawings. The upper drawing
>on the work bench is easily understood. My brain refuses to understand
>the lower drawing. I know that I am NOT supposed to round and glass the
>side edges of the seatback.What edge is this drawing looking at? The
>seatback turned out pretty nice (I think?).
>    It's probably obvious, but I just don't see it.
>Thanks,
>John Austin Millington
>
The reason for the rounding is that it is impossible to make a right angle
bend with the fiberglass and still have it attached to the foam.  ALL
corners that glass has to form around will have a radius either by rounding
the foam or by making a radius with micro (in the case of an inside right
angle bend).  Hope this helps!

Good luck on your project...



11597 Summerhome Park Road
Forestville, CA 95436
707.887.7260

Cozy#413
Finished through chap 14 except chap 13.
Chaps 16 & 24 mostly finished. Chapters 20
and 21 finished.

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:28:21 -0500
From: bil kleb <w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: COZY: Trouble visualizing!

Austin wrote:
> 
> I know that I am NOT supposed to round and glass the
> side edges of the seatback.

ah, but you are.

> What edge is this drawing looking at?

this second drawing is section a-a (the orientation of the
section is indicated on the "work bench" sketch above).
it shows a view as you were looking from the top or bottom
of the airplane,* so you see that the starboard and port edges
of the bulkhead are indeed rounded (per chapter 3 instructions
about rounding for glass to conform to outside corners).

*actually not quite correct: above and below the airplane
in the sense of being in the plane of the installed seatback
(i.e., about a 37 deg inclined plane from the vertical).

-- 
bil <mailto:w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>

From: jetpilot@execpc.com
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:38:09 -0600
Subject: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead

Hi builders, I have a question concerning the aft gear attach 
bulkhead on drawing M-6. On the foward face where you have to 
lay 8 plies of UND at the shown angle, is that in all one angle all 
the way across the front face or is it to the center and since when 
we had to trace the drawing then flip it over to get the identical 
side, do we lay the 8 plies of UND at that angle also and just meet 
in the middle. (Like a big "V" shape on the foward face). This may 
sound stupid, but I had to ask. Will the UND look like 
this\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ or like this \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////. Any advice 
would greatly be appreciated. Mark Wunduke, builder #748

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:58:44 -0500
From: Michael Amick <mkamick@wans.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead

jetpilot@execpc.com wrote:

> Ref: aft gear attach bulkhead on drawing M-6.

> On the foward face where you have to lay 8 plies of UND at the

> shown angle, is that in all one angle all the way across the front face ...

> or is it to the center......

The 8 extra plys are added only on the ends of the bulkhead, not all the way across.

> Wil the UNI lok like this\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ or like this
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////.

More like this

\\\                                                ///

Michael Amick

From: "Denis Thomassin" <dthomassin@chca.ca>
Subject: RE: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:40 -0400


I had the same interrogation when it came to apply the 8 layers on the Aft
Gear
Attach. Since I consider myself a man of compromise I finished doing 4
layers
one way / and 4 others one the other way \ alterning between each one each
time.
So I go a 8 play X at 20 degrees angles.

What do you think? should I put the piece on the wall with a label that say:
" Flying is no compromise" or use it like that ?

Happy Easter to all.

Denis Thomassin Montreal, Canada 705

From: "Russ Fisher" <rfisher@spacetech.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:29:24 -0400


> So should the front face look like this\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ or would
it 
> look more like this with the angles meeting in the 
> center\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////   (like a big
"V"). Any 
> advice would be greatly appreciated. Mark Wunduke, builder #748

Howdy,

Had the same question and posed it to Nat just for confirmation.  He
countered with the question, "In which direction does UNI give its
strength?"  The answer, of course, is along the length of the fibers.  The
strength we are looking for here is in the vertical or near vertical
direction, actually angled upward and out from the center of the bulkhead. 
It is also only required locally on the outside "ears" of the panel.  The
vertical UNI layers DO NOT go all the way across.  If you draw an imaginary
line from the inside of the "ears" all the way down to the bottom, that is
where the edge of the 8 & 3 layer UNI layers stop - all layers running
parallel to that line.  Therefore the layups should look something like:

|\\                             //|
|\\\\                         ////|
|\\\\\\=x=x=x=x=x=//////|
|\\\\\\\\=x=x=x=x=////////|

with the =x= indicating the BID and horizontal UNI layers.  I did run the
horizontal UNI layers all the way up so I wouldn't have a bump on the ears
where the landing gear will attach.

See ya,

Russ

From: "Russ Fisher" <rfisher@spacetech.com>
Subject: COZY: Chap 4 - Blind screws in firewall
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:59:06 -0400

Hi folks,

Well after 15 months, I'm embarrassed to say, I'm back to work on my Cozy. 
Did a little home remodeling and took _just_ a little longer than I
thought.

Anyway, in reading some posts from a few months ago, I came upon an idea
for fixing the firewall blind screws in place.  My plan is to use a cut-off
wheel in a Dremel and cut a 1/16" slot in the head extending into the
plywood about 1/2" on either side of the screw.  Then I can insert a piece
of 1/16" music wire in the slot and it shoud prevent the screw from
turning.  I will try to undercut the slot slightly (like a dovetail for you
woodworkers) so that if the flox should break loose, the torque will keep
the wire in the slot rather than ejecting it.  In cross section, it should
look something like:

__________    __________
                 /O\
                
_______________________     


Top view:
             
=======(==)========

This method relies completely on mechanical forces rather than a weld or
solder joint on a backing plate like some have suggested.  I'll let you
know how it turns out.

Russ Fisher
rfisher@spacetech.com

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:32:47 -0500
From: Michael Amick <mkamick@wans.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead

The purpose of this bulkhead is to transfer the landing load to the fusalage
sides & the spar.
Your description say you made the part incorrectly.  It will weigh more and be
weaker than the design specifies.  It is not very expensive to correct now.  In
my opinion there is no choice here: Make the part over and  read all directions
more carefully in the future.  If English is difficult for you GET HELP!!  In
the air, you do not want to HOPE everything is correct; you want to KNOW!!

Michael Amick

Denis Thomassin wrote:

> I had the same interrogation when it came to apply the 8 layers on the Aft
> Gear
> Attach. Since I consider myself a man of compromise I finished doing 4
> layers
> one way / and 4 others one the other way \ alterning between each one each
> time.
> So I go a 8 play X at 20 degrees angles.
>
> What do you think? should I put the piece on the wall with a label that say:
> " Flying is no compromise" or use it like that ?
>
> Happy Easter to all.
>
> Denis Thomassin Montreal, Canada 705



From: "Russ Fisher" <rfisher@spacetech.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:28:51 -0400

Michael Amick wrote:

> Make the part over and  read all directions
> more carefully in the future.  If English is difficult for you GET HELP!!
> In the air, you do not want to HOPE everything is correct; you want to
>KNOW!!

Michael,

If everyone understood everything in the plans, there would be no need for
this forum.  Insults do not belong here, please take them somewhere else.

Russ Fisher

From: "John Slade" <jslade@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:18:20 -0400

Russ.
I doubt that our friend in Canada took that as an insult, rather good
advice; and I doubt that an insult was intended. The plans are complex
enough that, in a second language, interpretation must be difficult at
times.

Email lacks body language and expression, hence the :} etc. and is far from
a perfect communication medium.
Don't react so strongly to what you think was meant by someone else's text.

Personally I welcome dumb questions and blunt answers. I have posed a few of
the former and received a few of the latter myself.
Regards,
John Slade #757
Cozy progress site http://kgarden.com/cozy

>

>Michael Amick wrote:
>> Make the part over and  read all directions
>> more carefully in the future.  If English is difficult for you GET HELP!!
>> In the air, you do not want to HOPE everything is correct; you want to
>>KNOW!!

>
Russ Fisher wrote
>If everyone understood everything in the plans, there would be no need for
>this forum.  Insults do not belong here, please take them somewhere else.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:29:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aft Landing Gear Attach Bulkhead

Was said <I welcome dumb questions and blunt answers.>

I don't believe there are any dumb questions, therefore, I don't react to dumb questions, just 
all questions

Some answers need to be blunt, many times the answer could have been worded more graceful, the 
important issue is THE ANSWER.

For those, whose native language in not American (Queen's English is different), don't be shy 
at speaking, prehaps a little different wording will clear the issue.

Example: At work the Cad software package I use, says "don't copy" when you wnat to copy, very 
strange.

Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 13:41:34 -0500
From: Michael Link <mglink@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 4 - Firewall hardpoints



Russ Fisher wrote:

> I read in the archives where someone recommended making the upper firewall
> hardpoints 2" long in the vertical dimension.  For those of you who have
> mounted your engine, have you found it difficult to hit these?
>
> Russ Fisher

Russ,
Like about everything in the Cozy plans, if you build it to the listed
dimensions, it fits.
My engine mounts lined up in the center of the hardpoints.(I used the Cozy
approved  engine mount supplier).

Regards,
Michael Link   Cozy MK-IV    N-171-ML

Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:15:01 -0400
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: COZY: Chap 4 - Firewall hardpoints

>Russ Fisher wrote:
>
>> I read in the archives where someone recommended making the upper firewall
>> hardpoints 2" long in the vertical dimension.  For those of you who have
>> mounted your engine, have you found it difficult to hit these?

While I would agree with Michael Link that if you build it to the plans
it'll work fine (I did, and it did), I was a little nervous about hitting
everything dead nuts on center (which I didn't - a couple of the bolts are
1/4" or so off center of the aluminum insert).  If I was to do it again,
I'd probably make the inserts 1.5" square, just to allow for more
variability in my positioning and in the engine mount manufacturing.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin           mailto:marcz@ultranet.com
                          http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:59:48 -0400
Subject: COZY: Ch 4: Fwd Landing Gr Bulkhead 1/4" hole placement
From: Dana Hill <dhill36@juno.com>

Dear Builders,
Please Help..............
	Upon preparing the fwd landing gear lower bulkhead for floxing
into the fuselage I measured for drilling the two required 1/4" holes. 
It turns out that the M drawing of this bulkhead shows a locating
dimension for this hole at 4.3" up from the bottom edge.  Measuring the
drawing shows about 4.1".    My guess is, is that the vertical location
of these holes is very important, ie. fixing the eventual height of the
landing gear with respect to the fuselage.  Did anyone else run into
this?  Would appreciate any help. 
	 I do not recall seeing anything in the archives about this.  If
I missed it please steer me in the right direction.     
________________________________
Thanks in advance,
Dana Hill
CZ IV #676

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:06:26 -0400
Subject: COZY: Ch 4: Fwd Lower Landing Gr. Bulkhead 1/4" holes
From: Dana Hill <dhill36@juno.com>

	Thanks to all for the help.  For those interested, it turns out
that the 4.3" dimension (in M-5 or 6) was included as a change in
Newsletter #38, from 4.1".  However it confused me because the location
of the hole on the M drawing scales to the original dimension.  I guess
the lesson I learned here was:
a.  Trust indicated dimensions before its corresponding scaled dimension
b.  If building from 2nd set of CZ IV plans (tan cover) it's still good
to be aware of changes to plans listed in the pre- #52 newsletters
____________
Dana Hill
CZ IV #676
    

___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

From: "Russ Fisher" <rfisher1@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: COZY: Chap 4 - Firewall rudder cable pulley location
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:26:47 -0400

In the Cozy Newsletter 39 page 4, correction #3 states to locate the two
groups of three blind screws 2.0 inches higher than shown on M-7 & M-8 to
provide more clearance between the rudder cable and the aileron push rods.

This newsletter was pre-second edition of the plans.  Since a number of
corrections had been inadvertently omitted from the second edition (which I
have), I called Nat to find out if the change had been made.  He said he
couldn't remember, but if the pulley got in the way to just add a couple of
washers under one or two screws to "tilt" the pulley in the direction
needed.

I understood what he meant, but I couldn't get him to understand that all
the washers you could possibly fit under a screw was not going to make up
for 2 inches!

Trouble is, if the plans had been corrected, then the original location
would have been just barely above the lower longeron.  If not, then when I
move the screws up 2 inches, they will be just BELOW the upper longeron.
Could he possibly have meant 0.2 inches?

Could someone who has a functional control system installed measure the
distance from, say, the bottom of the upper longeron to the center of the
uppermost screw and let me know the distance?  Thank you.


Russ Fisher

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:02:03 -0400
From: Phillip <LUV2AV8@compuserve.com>
Subject: COZY: F22

Hi folks,

How do I put this......I have a ......."FRIEND" who after making the F22
bulkhead realized "HE" made a mistake.  It appears that I ..........I mean
my "FRIEND".....in doing the local layup of 5 UND and 4 BID.....covered the
entire forward bulkhead instead of just the left and right first five
inches at the top and the left and right sides as depected on FIG 10 on
page 4-2.  Do I.... I mean "HE" need to make the entire bulkhead over, or
can it be used as is...and just accept the additional weight?  It hasn't
been weighed yet, but it will obviously be heavier.  

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Phillip Sill
Chapter 4, #707

From: SWrightFLY@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:19:12 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: F22

In a message dated 5/31/99 9:05:03 AM Central Daylight Time, 
LUV2AV8@compuserve.com writes:

<< "HE" need to make the entire bulkhead over, or
 can it be used as is...and just accept the additional weight?  It hasn't
 been weighed yet, but it will obviously be heavier.  
 
 Any advice would be appreciated. >>

Phil....
.Should you ever decide to install a Nose Lift you will have already done the 
reinforcement needed for the installation of the unit. You have done an 
excellent job of planning ahead.
Steve Wright
Stagger EZ N700EZ
 <A HREF="http://www.canard.com/noselift/">Wright Aircraft Works LLC: 
Electric Nose-Lift for EZEs
</A> 

Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:27:09 -0400
From: George Berven <gberven@erols.com>
Subject: COZY: Ch. 4: Firewall bulkhead

Quick question,

On the firewall bulkhead, the upper and lower sections are to be cut out
of the birch plywood? If so I get dimensions from the drawing of (24.5"
height by 37.25" width).  In my shipment I recieved one 1/4" birch
plywood [24" x 48"].  I seem to be short by 0.5" of plywood.  Did anyone
else have this problem.  I probably have some sort of concept error that
I just haven't resolved.  If not, what's the deal?

Thank you, George...    gberven@erols.com

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 4: Firewall bulkhead
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:04:43 -0400

George,
Fit the curved part of the upper piece into the NACA cutout in the lower
piece & you'll get the missing half inch back. There is a picture somewhere
in plans that shows this.
John Slade
http://kgarden.com/cozy

>On the firewall bulkhead, the upper and lower sections are to be cut out
>of the birch plywood? If so I get dimensions from the drawing of (24.5"
>height by 37.25" width).  In my shipment I recieved one 1/4" birch
>plywood [24" x 48"].  I seem to be short by 0.5" of plywood.  Did anyone
>else have this problem.  I probably have some sort of concept error that
>I just haven't resolved.  If not, what's the deal?


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:16:46 -0400
From: George Berven <gberven@erols.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 4: Firewall bulkhead

Thanks,

Just noticed picture on page 4-4.
Concept error resolved.

gberven@erols.com

Date: 28 Sep 99 21:07:48 MDT
From: Brian Norquist <brian.norquist@usa.net>
Subject: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon

I'm thinking of making the legholes taller (Chapter 4) by an inch or so
and filling the extra space with a high density foam.  The foam will 
also be wider and will extend back under the instrument reinforcement
bar.  The idea is to reduce edges, provide more surface area to spread
out the contact with the legs and absorb energy with HD foam.  I will 
probably also cover all edges of the legholes with an automotive
dashboard material.  I've heard the Renault material is very good.

My questions are:

  Should I laminate this foam or just cover it (perhaps just one BID?)

  Will I need to reinforce the instrument panel more?

  Is there a better energy absorption material to use for lining
  the legholes?

  Are there other edges that also should be analyzed in terms of
  their occupant interface during a crash?






____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:48:04 -0400

>  Are there other edges that also should be analyzed in terms of
>  their occupant interface during a crash?
What about the back of the front seat headrest? I've seen a couple which
were so sharp you'd end up with the rear seat passenger's head in your lap
if you stopped too quick and they didnt have a full harness on.


From: "Jim White" <jimwhi@televar.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:44:15 -0700

Save yourself a lot of time and trouble and build it like it is shown in the
plans.  Resist the urge to change anything.  Believe me, you will have a
much safer airplane if you do.  When I first started, I too thought of
making changes.  In the end, most changes end up adding weight and/or taking
way more time to complete.  Significant improvements to the design,
especially in the early chapters are few and far between.  These chapters
have been heavily scrutinized by the 1600+ plans owners and builders, not to
mention the 1000++ that reviewed the Long-Ez plans when they were available.
A majority of Cozy's end up weighing more than they need too.  Your best bet
for avoiding a visit to your emergency ward is to keep it simple,
lightweight, and put in a reliable engine.  Heavy airplanes with big engines
may take off and climb faster, but they also land faster.
Enjoy,
Jim White

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Norquist <brian.norquist@usa.net>
To: cozy_builders@canard.com <cozy_builders@canard.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:37 PM
Subject: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon


>I'm thinking of making the legholes taller (Chapter 4) by an inch or so
>and filling the extra space with a high density foam.

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:31:12 -0500
From: Bulent Aliev <atlasyts@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon



Brian Norquist wrote:

>
>   Will I need to reinforce the instrument panel more?
>
>   Is there a better energy absorption material to use for lining
>   the legholes?
>
>   Are there other edges that also should be analyzed in terms of
>   their occupant interface during a crash?

I would reinforce the seat belt hard poits instead. It may make a
difference between open and closed casket...:)

>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1



From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:09:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: making less work for the trauma surgeon

On 09/28/99 21:07:48 you wrote:
>
>I'm thinking of making the legholes taller 

THat means the instrument panel vertical space will be reduced. Per the drawings, there is just enough space to get two 3.125" 
gauges (airspeed, dg, roate of climb, altimeter, etc) above each other. This provides a standard instrument layout. Also an 
IFR panel radios take space. More important pilot has good instrument layout for safety. Remember, 1st priority is "Fly the 
Plane".

From: "Rick Maddy" <cozy@maddyhome.com>
Subject: COZY: Novice Chapter 4 Questions
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:48:22 -0600

I'm being a good boy and studying the plans in detail in preparation for
building. While studying chapter 4 I came across several questions.  I
scoured the archives and had some questions answered.  I read ALL the
chapter 4 postings and all the Peel Ply postings.  What follows is a list of
very specific questions I didn't find answers for.  Please keep in mind I
have only studied chapter 3, I haven't built the educational stuff.

1) Chapter 4, page 1, figure 6.  I read all about how the diagrams aren't
perfect with regard to sizes but...  This figure shows several fractions
that add up to 28.0".  Chapter 4 page 1, figures 1 & 2 show the foam as
28.8" - 0.75" for angle = 28.05".  I know 0.05" isn't much and I wouldn't
bring it up except someone sent me an email indicating that several builders
had trouble
with the seatback being too short.  Maybe it needs to be 29.0".  Anyone
experience this?

2) I was trying to visualize the 1 BID on the back of the seatback.  It
covers the aft face, the left and right sides, and the angled bottom.  That
I got.  My question was how well does the glass sit where the sides and
angled bottom meet?  Do the cut out corners help?  It's probably obvious if
I was doing it but I can't yet.

3) I read that you don't cover the cutouts of the bulkheads but I just want
to confirm this on the seatback since it is the only bulkhead that have the
sides glassed.  Is the end result of the seatback as if the corners where
cut out after all the glass was applied?

4) A peel ply question I didn't see in the archives. The plans say to peel
ply the edges of the aft face ply.  Is this just the left and right edges or
does this include the angled bottom edge too?  If so, why don't the plans
mention anythings about peel plying the angled top edge.

5) On F-22 the plans say to press the doubler into place on the wet layup.
The plans don't mention to micro the face of the double first as is
indicated as a standard practice in chapter 3.  The plans do state to micro
the aft face of the doubler before glassing it though.  Should I micro the
forward face of the doubler before pressing it into place?

6) After glassing the aft face of F-22 the plans say to weight bulkhead flat
for cure.  It then says to use peel ply and wax paper.  Should the whole
face be peel plyed or just the overlap of the UND from the doubler?

7) Is the whole aft face of the IP peel plyed or just the area above the leg
holes?

8) There is no cross section of the vertical ribs on the forward face of the
IP.  Do these have channels as well?  Seems like they wouldn't but I'm not
sure.  What did you do?

9) Picture of firewall on page 4 shows different cutout location for
electrical than is shown on drawing M-3.  I know not to cutout the holes
until assembly but which is right - the picture or the drawing?

10) The plans say to do some sanding on the IP to prepare for the rib
installation.  Wouldn't it be easier to peel ply where the ribs will go
instead?  Is this acceptable?

11) Same issue with landing gear bulk hard points.  Should the hard points
be peel plyed instead of sanding after installtion into bulkheads?

12) Plans say to micro forward surface of landing gear bulkhead (as
expected).  I just want to confirm that this doesn't include the hard points
(since chapter 3 says not to micro between two layers of glass).

13) Any advice on cutting square holes like those on the firewall?

14) Last one - I read all the debates on peel ply (only where needed vs.
everything).  The entries in the archive for peel ply only go through
December '97.  I just wondered if there was an update.  It seemed pretty
even but maybe leaned in the direction of peel plying everything.  Any
thoughts? (silly question :) )

I think I'm in trouble.  This many questions for such a simple chapter.  I'm
one of those people who measure everything to the nearest 64th of an inch.
Heck, I was measuring drywall to the nearest 16th of an inch for my garage
and got mad when there was an 1/8" gap!  Hopefully I quickly learn when to
pick my battles.  I'm sure many of you have gone through this.

Off to tear apart chapter 5 while I wait for all your wisdom to these
questions.

Thanks,

Rick Maddy  (cozy@maddyhome.com)
Cozy Mk IV #0824: Pre-build (www.maddyhome.com/cozy)

From: Militch@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:02:13 EDT
Subject: Re:  COZY: Novice Chapter 4 Questions

Here is my input:

Regarding a message dated 10/29/99 3:50:53 AM, in which cozy@maddyhome.com 
wrote:

>1) Chapter 4, page 1, figure 6.  I read all about how the diagrams aren't
>perfect with regard to sizes but...  This figure shows several fractions
>that add up to 28.0".  Chapter 4 page 1, figures 1 & 2 show the foam as
>28.8" - 0.75" for angle = 28.05".  I know 0.05" isn't much and I wouldn't
>bring it up except someone sent me an email indicating that several builders
>had trouble
>with the seatback being too short.  Maybe it needs to be 29.0".  Anyone
>experience this?

The seatback was fine as built for me. The trick was to install it so the top 
is flush with the top of the sides and the bottom is flush with the bottom. 
If that means it's actually at a 46 degree angle instead of 45, then that's 
the way to install it.
>
>2) I was trying to visualize the 1 BID on the back of the seatback.  It
>covers the aft face, the left and right sides, and the angled bottom.  That
>I got.  My question was how well does the glass sit where the sides and
>angled bottom meet?  Do the cut out corners help?  It's probably obvious if
>I was doing it but I can't yet.

Not great - I had a couple of strands / air-bubbles sticking out here and 
there. It gets covered by flox when you install the seatback, so it did not 
appear to be a cosmetic or strength issue.  I sanded it flush, and think I 
then put small patches on just to be safe.

>
>3) I read that you don't cover the cutouts of the bulkheads but I just want
>to confirm this on the seatback since it is the only bulkhead that have the
>sides glassed.  Is the end result of the seatback as if the corners where
>cut out after all the glass was applied?

Yes. 

>4) A peel ply question I didn't see in the archives. The plans say to peel
>ply the edges of the aft face ply.  Is this just the left and right edges or
>does this include the angled bottom edge too?  If so, why don't the plans
>mention anythings about peel plying the angled top edge.

The top, bottom and sides get glued into the fuselage. Actually you end up 
adding a shoulder support to the top, but a little sanding takes care of the 
necessary scuffing.
>
>5) On F-22 the plans say to press the doubler into place on the wet layup.
>The plans don't mention to micro the face of the double first as is
>indicated as a standard practice in chapter 3.  The plans do state to micro
>the aft face of the doubler before glassing it though.  Should I micro the
>forward face of the doubler before pressing it into place?

Yes, foam gets microed.
>
>6) After glassing the aft face of F-22 the plans say to weight bulkhead flat
>for cure.  It then says to use peel ply and wax paper.  Should the whole
>face be peel plyed or just the overlap of the UND from the doubler?

I peel plyed the whole thing. It was easier.
>
>7) Is the whole aft face of the IP peel plyed or just the area above the leg
>holes?

Same as 6 for me.
>
>8) There is no cross section of the vertical ribs on the forward face of the
>IP.  Do these have channels as well?  Seems like they wouldn't but I'm not
>sure.  What did you do?

I didn't put channels on.
>
>9) Picture of firewall on page 4 shows different cutout location for
>electrical than is shown on drawing M-3.  I know not to cutout the holes
>until assembly but which is right - the picture or the drawing?

I don't have the information in front of me, but I always use the drawings as 
the authority.
>
>10) The plans say to do some sanding on the IP to prepare for the rib
>installation.  Wouldn't it be easier to peel ply where the ribs will go
>instead?  Is this acceptable?

Sanding is also easy.
>
>11) Same issue with landing gear bulk hard points.  Should the hard points
>be peel plyed instead of sanding after installtion into bulkheads?

As above.
>
>12) Plans say to micro forward surface of landing gear bulkhead (as
>expected).  I just want to confirm that this doesn't include the hard points
>(since chapter 3 says not to micro between two layers of glass).

Correct.
>
>13) Any advice on cutting square holes like those on the firewall?

I used a drill and a flat file.

>
>I think I'm in trouble.

No you're not. Just beginning that's all. When it gets to the point that you 
are happy trimming the foam by biting the edges off with your teeth, then you 
will know that you have really got comfortable with the medium :-)

Regards,
  Peter Militch #740 Chapt 7/8

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Novice Chapter 4 Questions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:26:53 -0400

Rick,


>I'm being a good boy and studying the plans in detail in preparation for
>building.
This is when I started asking similar questions. Its a frustrating time.
You'll find that most of your questions are answered when you actually DO
stuff.

Here's my 2c on your questions...

>1) Chapter 4, page 1, figure 6.  I read all about how the diagrams aren't
>perfect with regard to sizes but...  This figure shows several fractions

Don't sweat the details. No, I think its the instrument panel that tends to
come up a bit short. A 1/4 inch extra there wouldn't hurt. Probably not
necesssary, but if you'd like to build the seat a little longer, go ahead.
You can always trim it later. Its easier to trim than to add length. - but
most build it per the drawings and fit it with no problem.

>2) angled bottom meet?  Do the cut out corners help?  It's probably obvious
if
>I was doing it but I can't yet.

Works fine. When you do it you'll figure it out. Tough to visualize some of
these things.... but I know - you have nothing else to do right now.

>3) I read that you don't cover the cutouts of the bulkheads but I just want
>to confirm this on the seatback since it is the only bulkhead that have the
>sides glassed.  Is the end result of the seatback as if the corners where
>cut out after all the glass was applied?
I think this is in the archives. Some discussion about wether to glass the
sides of the seatback or not. The part is taped in place with 2 BID tape
along all joins, so glassing the sides is not really relevant. Many don't
bother. I suspect some of the instructions in the early stages are there to
teach you things rather than to achieve a particular structural purpose.
Best way is to just do what the plans say, even if it sounds a bit
pointless. At the least you'll learn not to do that next time, but it won't
stop your airplane from flying. What WILL stop your airplane from flying is
sweating all the details and figuring out how to change lots of things to
the extent that you never finish it. Not kidding. This is probably the main
reason many airplane projects don't get finished. Personally, I don't want
to invest thousands of hours into a project with no end result, so I usually
just do what it says and move on.

>4) A peel ply question I didn't see in the archives. The plans say to peel
>ply the edges of the aft face ply.  Is this just the left and right edges
or
>does this include the angled bottom edge too?
Chaper 3 tells you when to peel ply. The idea is that you need a good
bonding surface if more glass is going to go there, so yes, peel ply all the
edges.  Note that the plans tell you something once, then sometimes skip
telling you the same thing again. Plans would be three times as big if
everything was said every time. You're supposed to learn the standard rules
as you go along.

>5) On F-22 the plans say to press the doubler into place on the wet layup.
>The plans don't mention to micro the face of the double first as is
See above. Chap 3 gives you the rules for glass to glass, glass to foam,
foam to foam bonding.

>6) Should the whole face be peel plyed
Some peel ply everything. Others say this adds weight. I've started using
4mm plastic on top of the layup and / or peel ply. (see analysis of results
on my web page http://kgarden.com/cozy/chap19.htm ) . As with the seat
back - you need to peel ply where there will be a glass bond.

>7) Is the whole aft face of the IP peel plyed or just the area above the
leg
holes?
See above

>8) There is no cross section of the vertical ribs on the forward face of
the
>IP.  Do these have channels as well?
I think plans show a vertical rib, same as the horizontal, either side of
the central support. Adds structure and you need somewhere to run wires.

>9) Picture of firewall on page 4 shows different cutout location for
>electrical than is shown on drawing M-3.
Sketches in plans are often just to give you an idea what something looks
like. Not to scale. Use the drawings.

>10) The plans say to do some sanding on the IP to prepare for the rib
>installation.  Wouldn't it be easier to peel ply where the ribs will go
>instead?  Is this acceptable?

Sure. But plans often suggest that you rough up the surface even if you peel
plyed.

>11) Same issue with landing gear bulk hard points.  Should the hard points
>be peel plyed instead of sanding after installtion into bulkheads?

Both, but don't sand into the fibers.

>12) Plans say to micro forward surface of landing gear bulkhead (as
>expected).  I just want to confirm that this doesn't include the hard
points
>(since chapter 3 says not to micro between two layers of glass).

Correct.

>13) Any advice on cutting square holes like those on the firewall?
Drill, then jig saw

>14) Last one - I read all the debates on peel ply (only where needed vs.

See notes above.

>I think I'm in trouble.  This many questions for such a simple chapter.
No. You're just doing what I did while waiting for materials. Relax. Just
read read read. If it doesnt seem to make sense, suspect you're
understanding first and the plans being wrong last.  Reread, get the big
picture by looking at the drawings and subsequent chapters, then reread
again.  Takes a while to get your head around some of the stuff, but it
usually comes clear eventually.

>I'm one of those people who measure everything to the nearest 64th of an
inch.
Stop this immediately! We airplane builders measure in decimal ( to nearest
1/100th) :)  Was once said - measure with a micrometer, mark with a ruler,
cut with a chainsaw.

>I'm sure many of you have gone through this.
Oh yea!

>Off to tear apart chapter 5 while I wait for all your wisdom to these
>questions.
Don't read the chapters one by one in great detail. Read the entire plans,
then the study the drawings. Then read the chapers in detail as you come to
them jumping forward to see how things will be used or fitted in later
chapters.

This should give you the big picture (while also keeping you quiet for a few
weeks till your materials arrive).

Regards,
John Slade
Cozy MKIV #757 (glassing wings)

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Novice Chapter 4 Questions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:07:10 -0400

Rick,
I misdirected you in my previous post.
My "plastic peel ply experiment" is detailed in
http://kgarden.com/cozy/chap20.htm

Note that my web page starts with the immortal words:
 "This is just my opinion. I could be wrong. "

John Slade
Cozy #757

From: Wayne Hicks <whicks@zeltech.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Novice Chapter 4 Questions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:28:26 -0400


Rick Maddy asked these questions.
Wayne Hicks responds:

1)  Maybe (the seatback) needs to be 29.0".  
---------> many new builders try to make the math work here.  :-)  When
installing the seatback in Chapter 6, don't worry about getting it exactly
at 45 degrees, just make sure the top is flush with the upper longerons, the
bottom flush with the bottom.  Your back won't be able to tell the
difference between 47 and 45 degrees, especially with seat cushions.

2) how well does (BID) glass sit where the sides and
angled bottom meet?  
--------> 1 ply of BID will conform to almost any complex curve, so don't
worry.

3) I read that you don't cover the cutouts of the bulkheads but I just want
to confirm this.
--------> It would be a pain in the butt to do flox corners on the cutouts.
Plus, you'll flox and 2-BID tape the seatback to the fuselage in Chapter 6.
You'll end up with lots of strength.

4) A peel ply question (snip)
--------> Peel plying the bottom edge is a good idea even if it's not
mentioned in the plans.  If you want to PP on the top :-) , take a look at
Chapter 8 to determine the area where future glass layups for the shoulder
brace will go.  

5) On F-22 the plans say to press the doubler into place on the wet layup.
The plans don't mention to micro the face of the double first as is
indicated as a standard practice in chapter 3.
---------> Better ask Nat.  I just followed the plans. 

6) After glassing the aft face of F-22,  the plans say to use peel ply and
wax paper.
---------> Look at figure 10.  Put PP there where the next reinforcing
layups will go.  Put wax paper (better to use plastic) under the weights to
keep them from sticking to the bulkheads.

7) Is the whole aft face of the IP peel plyed or just the area above the leg
holes?
--------> the plans say just the leg holes 'cause you'll be glassing other
stuff there later on.  But PP on the whole thing if you want a nice cosmetic
finish to the IP.  Skip it if you intend to use an overlay of some type.

8) There is no cross section of the vertical ribs on the forward face of the
IP.  
--------> I assumed we made them all like shown in Figure 13, so I included
channels on all ribs.


9) Picture of firewall on page 4... which is right - the picture or the M-3
drawing?
--------> Ask Nat, but I'd go by the M drawings.  Just my guess, but some of
the pictures from the plans may be of the prototype.  Maybe not.

10) The plans say to do some sanding on the IP to prepare for the rib
installation.  Wouldn't it be easier to peel ply where the ribs will go
instead?  Is this acceptable?
----------> Yes.  You catch on quick!  Sure you haven't done this before?

11) Same issue with landing gear bulk hard points.  Should the hard points
be peel plyed instead of sanding after installtion into bulkheads?
--------> That's what I did was to start the hardpoint layups on a piece of
peel-ply and finish off the final layer with peel ply.  But remember,
there's nothing wrong with sanding an area for next glass application.  PP
is just more convenient, and some say it provides a better bond surface.  I
STILL lightly sand all peel ply areas to knock off the shine so as to get
good chemical bonding.  (Topic covered will in the recent Ron Alexander
articles in Sport Aviation.)


12) I just want to confirm that this doesn't include the hard points
(since chapter 3 says not to micro between two layers of glass).
---------> Correct.  I shall not micro between glass.

13) Any advice on cutting square holes like those on the firewall?
---------> Mark the square.  Draw lines through opposite corners to find the
center.  Use a hole saw to cut most of it out.  Use a coping saw or hand
hold a hack saw blade to cut out the corners. 

14) Last one - I read all the debates on peel ply 
--------> The REAL danger with PP'ing on everything is FORGETTING to remove
the peel ply between layups.  Forget on a critical part and you'll not only
PP on yourself, but all over everything else too as you watch your airframe
fall apart around you.

I think I'm in trouble.  This many questions for such a simple chapter.
--------> Rick, you're not the only one, you're just one of the less timid
souls to have asked!

I'm one of those people who measure everything to the nearest 64th of an
inch.
Heck, I was measuring drywall to the nearest 16th of an inch for my garage
and got mad when there was an 1/8" gap!
--------> Then we should expect to see your plane as the Oshkosk Grand
Champion is 4 years or so?


___________________________________
Wayne Hicks
Cozy IV #678
Chapter 18
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027

From: "Capps Family" <cappsfan@ameritech.net>
Subject: COZY: Seat:Size and Angle
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:49:51 -0500

- Rick Maddy Wrote -
SNIP"
1) Chapter 4, page 1, figure 6.  I read all about how the diagrams
aren't
perfect with regard to sizes but...  This figure shows several
fractions
that add up to 28.0".  Chapter 4 page 1, figures 1 & 2 show the foam
as
28.8" - 0.75" for angle = 28.05".  I know 0.05" isn't much and I
wouldn't
bring it up except someone sent me an email indicating that several
builders
had trouble with the seatback being too short.  Maybe it needs to be
29.0".
Anyone experience this?
SNIP"

==================================================

Front Seat Back Size & Angle (Brace)

As stated in the plans the front seat back shall be "inclined at
approx. 45 deg".  Well being one who can't sleep at night knowing
something isn't exact, I whipped out my trusty CAD program and laid
out the Fuselage side as shown on (Chap 5 - page 3, fig 5), then I
positioned the seat back as called for on (Chap 6 - page 1, fig 3).
Also included, is the dimensions needed for the Front Seat Back Brace,
as called out on (Chap 6 - page 4, fig 15)

Findings for Front Seat Back:

Angle     = 47.35 ( using Nat's 60 x 40 method, which I think greatly
simplifies things).
Length   = 28.92 (point to point, Total length needed).
Brace     = 18.5 (height) x 17.04 (base) x 25.15 (hypotenuse)

note: do to the fact that the fuselage bottom in the area of the brace
is not level, the brace bottom is .09" to wide along it's (base),
furthest from the seat back.

I must say, I have thoroughly studied the plans, and am greatly
impressed with the quality and tolerances provide.  One thing that
makes building my Cozy even more sweeter, is this forum, and the
ability to have access to the archives.  My hats off to Nat Puffer for
designing such of skillful piece of engineering.

For those of you who would like a technical drawing illustrating the
above, I would be happy to forward one to you via email.

Blue Skies;

Larry

Larry A. Capps  #829
cappsfan@ameritech.net
Naperville, IL








From: "Rick Maddy" <cozy@maddyhome.com>
Subject: COZY: Front Seatback Corner Cutout Dimensions
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:10:35 -0700

I need a sanity check here.  I was studying the plans and diagrams for the
first few chapters and ran across a big discrepancy in the dimensions for
the top cutouts in the front seatback.

If you look at chapter 5, page 3, figure 7, section CC you will see a block
of foam that is 2.5" high, 0.75" wide, and 1.4" high on the inside.  If you
add the upper longeron and stiffener you get an additional rectangle that is
0.75" wide and 1.4" high.

Now imagine the seatback intersecting all this at a 45 degree angle.  The
2.5" dimension becomes 3.54".  The 1.4" dimension becomes 1.98". Now if you
go to large drawing M-1 and measure the top cutout for the seatback you will
get much different dimensions.  I get about 3.1" and 2.05" respectively.
This is a difference of -0.44" and +0.07" respectively.  The latter isn't
much but the former is.

Am I missing something here?  Am I too anal?  I can see the cutout being too
big to take into account fiberglass, epoxy, and flox but the 3.1" dimension
is too small.

Rick Maddy  (cozy@maddyhome.com)
Cozy Mk IV #0824: Pre-build (www.maddyhome.com/cozy)

From: jhocut@mindspring.com
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:41:20 -0500
Subject: Re: COZY: Front Seatback Corner Cutout Dimensions


It's been so long since I've built the seatback and fuselage I can't remember exact dimensions, but I do know that I just did what the plans said, with maybe a little minor adjusting with a sanding block here and there, and everything worked out fine.

Jim Hocut
Cozy IV #448 - ch 19




From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Front Seatback Corner Cutout Dimensions
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:17:41 -0500

>I was studying the plans and diagrams for the
>first few chapters and ran across a big discrepancy in the dimensions for
>the top cutouts in the front seatback.

Rick,
When are your materials scheduled for delivery???
Could you call Wicks and request urgent handling?  Perhaps we builders could
club together and help pay for Fedex shipping :)

>I need a sanity check here.
No. You need zanex. :)
Am I too anal?
Since you asked... Yes.

Make the seatback per the M drawings. If it doesnt fit... make it fit.
Chances are your fuselage will not be exactly per plans size.

I didnt try to follow your calculations. Don't have time... I have an
airplane to build. If you think your calculations are right, make it bigger.
You can always trim it later. Chances are that you're missing something and
the M drawing size is right.

My input would be to stop wasting you're time checking things like this.
This project is complex enough without coming at everything from three
directions.  As you move deeper into the project the calculations will get
much harder. Keep in mind that just about anything that's wrong can be
fixed. Making a few mistakes (and you will) is MUCH better than being
perfect and never getting anything done.

Regards,
John Slade



Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:00:17 -0600
From: David Domeier <david010@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Front Seatback Corner Cutout Dimensions

Rick,

    It's been some time since I built the fuselage so I do not recall
much about it, but I can say that this was not a problem.  I'd remember
that.

    In looking at the plan, it would appear that CC begins aft of where
the seat back joins the fuselage.  The BB section is where the seat back
joins the side.  Do it per the plan, it will work out.  After all these
years,there are not many errors left in it.  We harassed Nat alot in the
beginning over stuff like this.

dd

From: "RICH LETO" <LETOINC@email.msn.com>
Subject: COZY: peel ply
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:36:59 -0700

I finished the seatback bulkhead, but forgot to peel ply the edges,  is it
too late to peel ply now that it is dry?  any tips would be appreciated.
rich leto


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:38:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: COZY: peel ply

I understand it's possible to add epoxy, and fiberglass or peal ply up to the point of knife 
trim. Probably OK for some non structural situations. But the instruction's comments, to sand 
with 80 grit after cure. Sand only enough to remove the sheen, with minimum of fiberglass 
removed. I would just sand, and not worry about it. 

From: "Paul Kuntz" <paul.kuntz@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Front seat back.
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:27:39 -0800

I noted an earlier incorrect reply to this question.  Refer to Figure 5 at
the bottom of Chapter 4 Page 1.  It clearly shows in Section A-A, and in the
explanatory text, that the bid cloth on the back side of the seat back wraps
down over the sides so that it joins the front side layup on the sides as
well as at the top and bottom edges of the seat back, with flox corners all
around.  The seat back is the only bulkhead made this way, however.  The
rest of the bulkheads will have bare foam edges.

Paul Kuntz
Cozy MK IV England



My question revolves
>around glassing the rear surface. As I understand it the rear lay up will
lay
>down each 45 degree end where it will meet the front lay up at a flox edge.
>What about the sides? Does the rear lay up fold down each side and
therefore
>meet the front again at a flox?

>


Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:19:20 -0500
From: John <jmillington@enter.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Front seat back.

Paul and new builders,
         I built my front-seatback in the same way as Paul is saying. I
also was
confused and asked for clarification on the list. All of the rigtht
information
IS there in the plans. The section A-A diagram (The one in the extreme
lower
right corner of the page) is an edge view and is how the finished piece
will
look when viewed on edge from the bottom or the top, just like in the
picture.
The finnished piece is a nicely rigid (completely enclosed) cocoon of
fiberglass. I waited until after cure to cut any cutouts.
   I haven't really seen any significant reason that the edges of this
bulkhead
is done differently than the others, however, I found that it was a good
reason
to break out the router and put a nice radiused edge on the
seat-back.Good
practice with foam shaping that will come in handy later.  The back-side

fiberglass wraps nicely around the edges and meet at the front edge with
a nice
strong floxed 90 degree corner as is shown on chapter 3, page 11, flox
corner
sequence 4.
   I would bet that most builders have not put the rounded sides because
of
either the same confusion or the decision that the difference is not an
important point.

Having fun with my Star-Wars interior design,
John A. Millington    Plans # 706


Paul Kuntz wrote:

> I noted an earlier incorrect reply to this question.  Refer to Figure
5 at
> the bottom of Chapter 4 Page 1.  It clearly shows in Section A-A, and
in the
> explanatory text, that the bid cloth on the back side of the seat back
wraps



From: JERSKIP@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:18:48 EST
Subject: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead

Stupid question, but I haven't had one in a while, so I guess I'm entitled.

The plans say use 1/4" fir for the temporary firewall. Home Depot said they 
don't stock it.

Is plain old 1/4" plywood OK, or do I need to keep hunting?

Thanx,
Jerry Schneider #768 Finishing Bulkheads

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:23:10 -0500

Jerry,
>The plans say use 1/4" fir for the temporary firewall. Home Depot said they
>don't stock it. Is plain old 1/4" plywood OK, or do I need to keep hunting?

I used plain old home depot 1/4 plywood for the temp firewall.
Just be sure its not warped.
Regards,
John Slade, Cozy #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:33:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead

I believe the instructions call for aircraft plywood, which is probably close to marine plywood, without the quality control 
of usual aircraft materials. The proper plywood in my eyes would have these requirements: 

a: Waterproof glue
b: All plys (interior and face) to be high quality wood, with fairly straight grain, and no voids (space between pieces in one 
ply or knot holes. 
c: The grain should not be coarse.
d: A grade stamp or other certification that it meets some standard. This gets a little gray, without knowing the specifics of  
the stated grade, its difficult to know what is good and bad. The most common plywood grading organization is the American 
Plywood Association (APA). Most people are familiar with the grade "CDX" which approximately says there are small (1" 
dia.)unfilled knot holes on one face, and filled on the other. Neither face is sanded, or what one would consider an 
good appearance grade. The "X" is exterior exposure glue. This does not assure acceptable performance for continued exterior 
exposure. It will resist a few rains during the construction, but the interior voids will trap moisture, with deterioration.

Having said all that, the EZ firewall is a major structural member, taking loads from the spar, engine mount items, and 
landing gear, and distributing them to the fuselage, strakes, etc. We are talking exactly one piece of material, which for 
most of us (At least those in the US and Canada) is readily available without terrible cost, and would recommend using the 
aircraft quality. 

Marine grade plywood does have waterproof (I didn't say water resistant) glue, and no internal voids, which probably qualify 
it for consideration. The quality control one needs to do, is: From the scraps cut off and out, examine for no voids, and a 
good glue line. The glue line can be checked by pealing, breaking at the glue line. The wood should break first. Even a small 
defect should be reason to strap, since it could be worst elseware. 

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:08:47 -0500
From: Jeff Russell <JRaero@gte.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead

cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I believe the instructions call for aircraft plywood, <snip>
 
> Having said all that, the EZ firewall is a major structural member, 
> taking loads from the spar, engine mount items, and
> landing gear, and distributing them to the fuselage, strakes, etc. 

I think the question was about the false firewall and not the real
one?

What about the firewall that the Berkut people use.  It is out of
18 Lb urethane foam with alum hardpoints for the engine mount?
It has no plywood at all.
-- 
Jeff

From: Roy Grossinger <roy.grossinger@PACCAR.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:46:24 -0800 

While still in college we made a firewall out of Urethane foam too, using
G-10 for hard points and firewall passthroughs.  But that was a tail
dragger, no loads other then the engine and battery.  As long as your
material has properties to handle the environment and loads you can make the
firewall out of just about anything.
ROY

cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I believe the instructions call for aircraft plywood, <snip>
 
> Having said all that, the EZ firewall is a major structural member, 
> taking loads from the spar, engine mount items, and
> landing gear, and distributing them to the fuselage, strakes, etc. 

I think the question was about the false firewall and not the real
one?

What about the firewall that the Berkut people use.  It is out of
18 Lb urethane foam with alum hardpoints for the engine mount?
It has no plywood at all.
-- 
Jeff

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:34:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead

Jeff wrote >What about the firewall that the Berkut people use.  It is out of
>18 Lb urethane foam with alum hardpoints for the engine mount?

I was referring to EZ's, the Berkut is a different aircraft in many ways.

 One must rely upon the competence or lack of.., and make a decision whether the entire package is safe. And this is not any 
reflection on Berkut, but a much more general statement. 


From: "Barry Gardner" <bcgardner@flashcom.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:36:22 -0600

As an ex-employee of International Paper Company, I'm aware that
there is more to plywood than "plain old 1/4". See:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/pdcomp/handbook/plywood.htm#t3

to learn more than you probably wanted to know about the grades,
types, and engineering characteristics of plywood. The better
grades have limits on internal voids, which considerably weaken
the strength of plywood. That's not to say that some of the
commonly available lesser grades wouldn't work for our
application but rather to point out that some plywood grades are
definitely better than others.

Barry Gardner
Wheaton, IL

----- Original Message -----
From: <Militch@aol.com>
To: <JERSKIP@aol.com>; <owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com>;
<cozy_builders@canard.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead


>
> In a message dated 11/30/99 8:33:56 AM, JERSKIP@aol.com wrote:
>
> >Is plain old 1/4" plywood OK, or do I need to keep hunting?
>
> Yes it is. That's what I used. I was under the impression that
plain old
> plywood was made from fir.
>
> Regards
>

From: "fmooers" <visnry@itis.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:43:59 -0800



1/4" plywood is 3 to 5 plys. Typically a soft wood like pine, doug fir, etc.
Using hard wood, the plywood is usually for finishes, cabinets, paneling,
etc. Imports are usually soft hard woods for either finishes or cabinetry.
The grading tells the type of face, core and backing materials. the rating
for exterior or interior will be based upon the type of adhesives used for
adhering the plys.
The flooring business (my business) has a 5 ply white Russian Birch, 1/4''x
4'x8', it uses a phenolic resin, has passed boil tests for delamination, all
plys are void free. We have sold millions of square feet with minimal
complaints maybe a couple dozen annually. This product is used under vinal
floors in kitchens and baths.
This a specialized product and typically you will not find this product at a
Home Depot or equivilant.
If anyone should like to explore this product, please feel free to contact
me.

Fred Mooers (visinry@itis.com)
Madison, WI

----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Gardner <bcgardner@flashcom.net>
To: <Militch@aol.com>; <JERSKIP@aol.com>; <owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com>;
<cozy_builders@canard.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead


> As an ex-employee of International Paper Company, I'm aware that
> there is more to plywood than "plain old 1/4". See:
>
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/pdcomp/handbook/plywood.htm#t3
>
> to learn more than you probably wanted to know about the grades,
> types, and engineering characteristics of plywood. The better
> grades have limits on internal voids, which considerably weaken
> the strength of plywood. That's not to say that some of the
> commonly available lesser grades wouldn't work for our
> application but rather to point out that some plywood grades are
> definitely better than others.
>
> Barry Gardner
> Wheaton, IL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Militch@aol.com>
> To: <JERSKIP@aol.com>; <owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com>;
> <cozy_builders@canard.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 11/30/99 8:33:56 AM, JERSKIP@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >Is plain old 1/4" plywood OK, or do I need to keep hunting?
> >
> > Yes it is. That's what I used. I was under the impression that
> plain old
> > plywood was made from fir.
> >
> > Regards
> >
>
>

From: "fmooers" <visnry@itis.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:43:59 -0800



1/4" plywood is 3 to 5 plys. Typically a soft wood like pine, doug fir, etc.
Using hard wood, the plywood is usually for finishes, cabinets, paneling,
etc. Imports are usually soft hard woods for either finishes or cabinetry.
The grading tells the type of face, core and backing materials. the rating
for exterior or interior will be based upon the type of adhesives used for
adhering the plys.
The flooring business (my business) has a 5 ply white Russian Birch, 1/4''x
4'x8', it uses a phenolic resin, has passed boil tests for delamination, all
plys are void free. We have sold millions of square feet with minimal
complaints maybe a couple dozen annually. This product is used under vinal
floors in kitchens and baths.
This a specialized product and typically you will not find this product at a
Home Depot or equivilant.
If anyone should like to explore this product, please feel free to contact
me.

Fred Mooers (visinry@itis.com)
Madison, WI

----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Gardner <bcgardner@flashcom.net>
To: <Militch@aol.com>; <JERSKIP@aol.com>; <owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com>;
<cozy_builders@canard.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead


> As an ex-employee of International Paper Company, I'm aware that
> there is more to plywood than "plain old 1/4". See:
>
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/pdcomp/handbook/plywood.htm#t3
>
> to learn more than you probably wanted to know about the grades,
> types, and engineering characteristics of plywood. The better
> grades have limits on internal voids, which considerably weaken
> the strength of plywood. That's not to say that some of the
> commonly available lesser grades wouldn't work for our
> application but rather to point out that some plywood grades are
> definitely better than others.
>
> Barry Gardner
> Wheaton, IL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Militch@aol.com>
> To: <JERSKIP@aol.com>; <owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com>;
> <cozy_builders@canard.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: COZY: Firewall Bulkhead
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 11/30/99 8:33:56 AM, JERSKIP@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >Is plain old 1/4" plywood OK, or do I need to keep hunting?
> >
> > Yes it is. That's what I used. I was under the impression that
> plain old
> > plywood was made from fir.
> >
> > Regards
> >
>
>

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: temporary Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:11:00 -0500

>As an ex-employee of International Paper Company, I'm aware that
>there is more to plywood than "plain old 1/4". 
Yea, but we're talking about the TEMPORARY firewall.
All it does is hold the longerons in place while you're assembling the tub.
It gets thrown away after Chapter 7!
Regards,
John Slade

From: Roy Grossinger <roy.grossinger@PACCAR.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: temporary Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:12:55 -0800 

I beg to differ.  I never throw away good wood you can use for sanding
blocks, stiffeners for jigs, jigs....  Keep them scraps :-)  Lets say the
temporary firewall gets converted.

Subject: Re: COZY: temporary Firewall Bulkhead

>As an ex-employee of International Paper Company, I'm aware that
>there is more to plywood than "plain old 1/4". 
Yea, but we're talking about the TEMPORARY firewall.
All it does is hold the longerons in place while you're assembling the tub.
It gets thrown away after Chapter 7!
Regards,
John Slade

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: temporary Firewall Bulkhead
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:08:26 -0500


>I never throw away good wood you can use for sanding
>blocks, stiffeners for jigs, jigs....  Keep them scraps :-)  Lets say the
>temporary firewall gets converted.

Absolutely. I have a large area under my workbench for "used" wood.
John Slade

From: "dewayne morgan" <dmorgan@mis.net>
Subject: COZY: chapter 4 firewall template
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:59:30 -0500

builders,

Everyone has said to stay on the lines and that will get you into chapter 6
but the templates for the temporary firewall bulkhead is about 1/8 to 1/4
inch out
of alignment at the centerline from top to bottom. are there any other
dimensions available that i can use for reference other than the 3.1 x 7.5 
dimension at the bottom? Or is the temporary one that critical in the first
place.

thanks

dewayne

From: "Russ Fisher" <rfisher1@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: G-10 HARDPOINTS
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 07:49:46 -0500

David,

If you live near a metropolitan area, most any plastics supply house should
carry it.  The first one I called in Rochester, NY stocked it and had a
piece about 12" x 15" in their scrap bin, which saved me cutting charges.
This was enough for my landing gear bulkhead hardpoints.  I paid about $15
for it.  Be sure to use carbide to cut it.  I used a carbide blade in my
tablesaw for the major cuts and a carbide coated jigsaw blade (available at
any home center) for the detail cuts.  If you can't find it locally, the
place I obtained it from is

Cadillac Plastic
1328 University Ave.
Rochester, NY  (zip is not in phone book)
(716) 442-6690

Russ Fisher



>Could someone send me the phone/address of the individual that
>had a G-10 hardpoint source? Thanks
>David Burkes #837 Chpt. 4


