From: DougSheph@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:15:21 EST
Subject: COZY: Bench seats

After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to
eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the
front and back.  This will increase hip room in all situations, and the plane
should be positively roomy when flying solo or for a single passenger in back.

The speed brake johnson bar can be eliminated by using the electric actuator,
but it's not nearly so obvious what to do about the heat duct.  Rather than
forego cabin heat entirely, or resorting to electric heaters or oil coolers in
the nose, it seems to me the best option is to use the heat muff on the
exhaust pipe as per plans, routing the hot air forward through one or both
armrest(s).

Can any of you guys who are farther along (started on plans set #733 a weeks
ago -- five bulkheads down, two to go!) help me visualize the details of how
to do this?  Would it be easiest to go over or under the spar?  Is there room
to get around the gear struts?  I'm figuring there's room under the aileron
torque tube for a decent-size duct (using custom armrests, of course, with
shallower map pockets) most of the way up the cabin.  Is there anything
preventing me from doing this?  Would it be best to route the air through the
same location shown on the plans, or is there someplace nearer the side that
would work out?

One other detail that's a little fuzzy is the center seat belt attachment.
I'm thinking I'll just mount the tube on a small block of foam (elevating it
so I can get wrenches on the bolt), and lay the reinforcements as per plans
over the block and floor instead of on the heat duct.  Any reason this won't
work, or any better ideas (perhaps a stud, similarly reinforced, embedded in
the floor)?

I would appreciate any and all ideas on the subject.

Doug Shepherd

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:14:30 -0800
From: Michael Amick <mkamick@wans.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats

DougSheph@aol.com wrote:
> 
> After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to
> eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the
> front and back.  This will increase hip room in all situations, .....
> ...< multiple statements & questions deleted >

Hold on, there might be OTHER options. (Let's think outside the box!) 
How tall 
are you?  Have you SAT in a cozy with the electric spend brake to
compare??  
I helped a fellow builder by making the seat cushions for his plane. 
The 
bottom cushion was made thick enough (3" vs 2"in the plans) with firm
poly 
foam to raise his line of sight slightly for best visiblity over the
nose.  He 
is 5' 11" (& moderatly wide)& has the electric brake. The net result is
a 
completely flat area across the front seat.  

This center keel adds tremendious stiffness & strength to the AC
bottom.  
Elemental engineering will show that to reinforce the bottom to the same 
level of stiffness would increase the overall weight.  If your personal 
weight & balance is the issue, do you want to have LESS strength in the 
bottom??

Besides this, SHOULDER room is the biggest problem in the COZY (the Mark
IV 
has 4" more than the III).  BEFORE you change everything go sit & maybe
taxi 
(better to FLY obviously) in a cozy IV with the electric brake with
someone 
close to the size of your spouse/partner who you will spend the most
time in 
the airplane with.  Because of your need to move you arms to tune
radios, 
trim the AC, work the controls, etc, the shoulder area is always the
tightest 
place!  Your gain for all the work you'll do is zip in the shoulder area
where 
it would do the most good. 


Michael Amick

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:42:43 -0600
From: Tom Brusehaver <tgb@cozy.core.wamnet.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats


>One other detail that's a little fuzzy is the center seat belt attachment.
>I'm thinking I'll just mount the tube on a small block of foam (elevating it
>so I can get wrenches on the bolt), and lay the reinforcements as per plans
>over the block and floor instead of on the heat duct.  Any reason this won't
>work, or any better ideas (perhaps a stud, similarly reinforced, embedded in
>the floor)?

In the Marshall(?) basic composites book there is the math laid out
for seat belt attach in a composite airplane.  Nothing complicated,
but a change like this, you better make sure you have the strenght in
the right place.

The duct gets strength due to the shape, the fact it goes under the
seat, and the extra ply's over the top of it. I know when I looked at
the silly aluminium tube laying there on top of the foam, I questioned
the strength.  Now after stepping on it, and putting a bolt through
the hole, I think it'll hold me and another 200lb'er pretty well.

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:21:57 -0500
From: Jeff Russell <JRaero@gte.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats



Michael Amick wrote:

>  Have you SAT in a cozy with the electric spend brake to compare??

> I helped a fellow builder by making the seat cushions for his plane.
> The
> bottom cushion was made thick enough (3" vs 2"in the plans) with firm
> poly
> foam to raise his line of sight slightly for best visiblity over the
> nose.  He
> is 5' 11" (& moderatly wide)& has the electric brake. The net result is
> a
> completely flat area across the front seat.
>

This is what we did our airplane and it works as a bench.
--
Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc.                    E-mail:   Jeff@aerocad.com
2954 Curtis King Blvd.  Ft. Pierce, FL. 34946
Shop# 561-460-8020 7:00am to 3:30pm  Home# 561-344-6200
Website:   http://www.Aerocad.com
Composite workshop info:   http://www.Sportair.com


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:16:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats

CHeck the archives for my heating system. Basically its 2" alum. tubing both sides, a blower, defrosters, and the last Sunday 
I was doing my 3 landings (weather, work, and other obligations has been a bad mix for flying) with outside temp below 
freezing. And even for the 0.4 hour flight I was in my shirt sleeves. If you can't find it in the archives, I'll send it on 
request.

DO I understand that the MKIV backseat fore/aft divider can be removed. Although the COZY's are comfortable for an adult in 
the rear seat, thats with the person centered where there is more headroom. IF its acceptable to make the seat flat, then the 
effort should be done, and assemble the seat belts so the 2 outboard ones will mate.

I recommend the temperfoam cushions, they are very comfortable on the long haul, I use 3" per their instructions in the front, 
and 2" in the rear.

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:07:23 -0600
From: Michael Link <mglink@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats



DougSheph@aol.com wrote:

> After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to
> eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the
> front and back.

As alluded to by Michael Amick, you don't have to eliminate the heat
duct or build
a bench seat. Build the duct and seats per plans, but do not add the
console to
the top of the duct. Instead, cut a peice of PVC so that you wind up
with a
half-round,(or a little less than half) cap that is then screwed onto
the top of
the duct. This will give you a channel for throttle and mixture cables,
as well as
assorted wires. Make the seat cushions so that they touch, or nearly
touch in the
center. The PVC channel will be covered by the cushions since it is only
about 3/4
to 1" above the top of the heat duct. It looks and feels like a bench
seat but
retains the strength of the structural keel, and the seatbelt attach, 
per plans.
I also eliminated the throttle quad. in favor of push/pull controls
mounted in the
center of the inst. panel between the leg holes. These controls are both
equipped
with verniers, so that precise mixture, as well as fine throttle
adjustments can
be made.This also cleans up the front seat area.
One last thing; I removed the foam inside the armrests, (made a glass to
glass
area) adjacent to the aileron torque tubes so that the armrests could be
made a
little thinner. Every 3/4 " of extra butt room helps.
Regards,
Michael Link    Cozy MK-IV   N-171ML

From: SWrightFLY@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:56:44 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: Seat : Building for comfort

In a message dated 10/21/99 5:53:25 AM Central Daylight Time, 
cappsfan@ameritech.net writes:

<<   I ask that you take a look at the
 diagram and give me your opinion. >>

I have sat in both right and left seats of Cozys for hours and can't think of 
another airplane I have flown that is more comfortable. The only improvement 
I can think of is to have the front seats staggered.....but then you will be 
drastically changing the structure, load paths and building another unique 
design.......suggest you follow the plans.......You will find the Cozy very 
comfortable.
Steve
Stagger EZ 
N700EZ 

From: "John Slade" <rjslade@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Seat : Building for comfort
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:59:52 -0400

Hi Larry,
First off - Don't attach things to maillist emails. It drives Marc crazy
because he gets rows and rows of binary in his "text" message.  The only
'acceptable' way to refer people to a picture is to post it to a web site,
then reference it.  Pity, but that's the way it is. Hmmm. I could do
something about that with a little perl coding. Hmmm. I could do something
about standardizing headings at the same time. Maybe later.  Question for
group - would people find the ability to post images to a central location a
very great benefit?

Anyway, back to the seat... I agree with Steve. Add good cushions (I like
the ones which self contour) and the Cozy is very very comfortable. Of the
various things you might consider changing, this is probably way down on the
list, especially since you'd be messing with the structure.

A general note on changes:
Since starting my Cozy last March I've seen a dozen builders go through the
"stage" you're going through. Old hands have probably seen hundreds do it. I
went through it myself.  We're a naturally creative and innovative bunch.
Give us any system and we automatically look for a better way.  Problem is
that this seriously detracts from forward motion. Some spend 10 years
rethinking everything.  Many don't make it to flying. Those that do
eventually get off the ground may have a "better airplane". Maybe not, but
I'd bet they would have been airborne in half the time if they'd suppressed
their innovative talents.

Lets leave the standard argument "if you're not an aeronautical engineer,
don't design an airplane your life will depend on" aside for a moment. My
experience is that each time you even consider doing something different
from plans you divert your mental energies and dramatically slow down your
progress. Ask yourself the question "What is my primary objective?" If it's
to create the perfect airplane, then be prepared for it to take a lifetime.
If it's to build and fly a Cozy, then ignore your creative talents and
follow plans. The policy I've adopted (and would recommend) is to build your
first plane per plans without considering any major changes. Get it flying,
then decide what needs fixing and either change it or build a second plane.
Chances are you'll be very happy with the first plane and wont bother
changing anything.

Sorry if this seems like a rant. Its just my feeble attempt to verbalize the
issue.
Regards,
John Slade, Cozy #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy



