From: Epplin John A Subject: RE: COZY: Chapter 6, levels Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:47:00 -0600 For my money I would use a machinist level. These are far more = sensitive than the typical carpenters level. They are also adjustable if the = need should ever happen. John epplin Mk4 #467 > -----Original Message----- > From: Oreste Muccilli [SMTP:o.muccilli@net-point.it] > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 1:34 PM > To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com > Subject: COZY: Chapter 6, levels >=20 > Hello from Italy,=A0 > =A0 > I have started the chapter 6 and I must assemble the fuselage.=A0=20 > I am undecided if to use mine bubble levels or to buy one digital = levels > .=A0=20 > Marc Zeitlin advises to use a smart levels. I appreciate his = suggestion > and I would desire seeming of other builders.=A0=20 > To conclude I have a question:=A0 in U.S. the tool called smart = levels it is > a digital levels or no?=A0=A0=A0 > =A0 > Regards Oreste Muccilli > =A0 > o.muccilli@net-point.it >=20 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:09:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 6, levels Mucilli writes I used a cheap 4 foot aluminum level, that I proved to be sensative and accurate before buying, at a small discount tool store in Dearborn Michigan. First the level must be sensative (the bubble or electronics must respond to small changes from vertical or horizontal position. Take a dime ($0.10 coin), find 2 points at the ends of the level where the bubble is centered, now put the dime under one end and see if you the bubble finds a new position that you can easily and confidently say that this is not level. Do this with the level in every useable position (vertical, horizontal, end for end, and upside down if possible). This is Sensativity! Now for accuracy, With the bubble centered between the marks, and setting on solid resting surfaces, turn the level end for end only, the bubble should remain centered, if it doesn't the level is still useable, but the marks must be discarded as a reference that when the bubble is centered the level is horizontal or vertical. The level is still useable, BUT either new marks must be made where the bubble is exactly the same position, or it must be noted where the bubble is the same location, WHEN and ONLY WHEN the bubble stays the same position when the level is turned end for end! This again should be for all positions! Note that this procedure is simple, (I did it in the store using a counter an buiding column) no fancy equipment, and should be done regularly with all levels, whether they be cheap bubble, electronic, or expensive surveyor's transits and levels. I personally do not prefer the electronic variety, since they may without warning go out of adjustment due to a cold soldered joint, or weak battery. Usually the old mechanical variety is more stable, unless bumped, and then should be checked. Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:55:50 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Chapter 6, levels It's all geometry Oreste.....straight lines, you can use levels, lazer sights, string, straight edges etc etc. The accuracy you wish to achieve is up to you, no one should prescribe to you! Just test your levelling device....choose a level surface e.g. a table , place the level on it facing left and read bubble between the lines, now turn it around on the same spot the reading MUST be the same or else you have an error on it. Even once tested always use it parallel to everything you do. I have a pointer on mine and it always faces one way. I had a case when I was doing my canard and found the "level" I was using to be a 1/4 bubble out from left to right...well it landed up in the garbage bin. Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm (home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za RSA From: Epplin John A Subject: COZY: Levels Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:34:22 -0600 I don't want to beat this subject to death, but does anyone know what kind of sensor the "Smart Level" uses? John epplin Mk4 #467, Just got the canopy to hinge last evening! Things are happening! From: Cozy7971 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:39:31 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 6, levels In a message dated 98-03-26 14:53:49 EST, EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com writes: << For my money I would use a machinist level. These are far more sensitive than the typical carpenters level. They are also adjustable if the need should ever happen. >> A machinists level would certainly be more accurate. I used two four foot carpenters levels throughout my project with good success. I did by a Smartlevel at OSH a couple of years ago. A few thoughts on using levels: - Take great care in leveling and squaring all parts of the fuselage during the initial assembly process. If you do it right in the beginning you can save a lot of grief later. - Use several levels. I put one in the front and one in the back of the fuselage. I use a two foot level on each longeron when leveling. It makes it easier to get everything leveled up when you don't have to continually move a single level around. - You can check that a level is reading correctly by simply reversing it. Switch it end for end and see if it reads the same. After I get things leveled out I also reverse the levels and double check that everything is still OK. - The Smartlevel is real handy when you are shimming the fuselage. You need to view a bubble level head on to assure that you are reading it OK. The digital readout is easily visible from the side. - I've heard that the Smartlevel is not as accurate as we would desire. As long as you switch it end for end or compare it against a bubble level as a final check I would think you would be OK. In any case, I haven't experienced any problems. Dick Finn Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:48:52 -0600 From: tpierce@ghg.net (Terence J. Pierce) Subject: COZY: Central Machinery tools Does anyone have any experiences with Central Machinery Tools? I am still looking to get a 14 inch bandsaw. I would like one that is variable speed. Harbor Freight Tools has one for $299.99 without dust collector hook-up or $329.99 with dust collector hook-up. Will I be happy with this bandsaw, or should I be looking at a different brand? Any help would be appreciated, -- Terry Pierce <>< mailto:tpierce@ghg.net Cozy Mark IV #600 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:35:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Central Machinery tools What do you want a bandsaw for? I use a Bosch handheld jig saw. It works fine with everything upto 1/4" aluminum and 1/8" 4130 for the small quantities of work on a Cozy. Use the lower speeds for metals and cutting oil. If you have other needs fine. Don't skimp on the quality though, I had a sears best, and it was junk. The issue is how the blade is chucked in the machine. It must be easy to change and yet grip tightly. From: sdbish@juno.com Subject: COZY: Central Machinery tools Band Saws Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:35:49 EST --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: tpierce@ghg.net (Terence J. Pierce) To: Cozy builders Does anyone have any experiences with Central Machinery Tools? I am still looking to get a 14 inch bandsaw. I would like one that is variable speed. Harbor Freight Tools has one for $299.99 without dust collector hook-up or $329.99 with dust collector hook-up. --------- End forwarded message ---------- For less money, a number of years ago I purchased a small, ten inch, three wheel bandsaw from Sears for $100. This saw is sold under several brand names. It is intended for wood only, but I modified it for less than $5 to slow the speed to something acceptable for metal. Also had to change the blade. As designed, the motor drives the right bottom wheel through a cogged belt. The belt goes on the drive wheel on a pulley some 2" in diameter. Take off this belt, take the tire off the drive wheel, and put a longer belt on from the motor pulley over the entire drive wheel, where the tire was removed. This changes the motor-drive wheel ratio, slowing the blade speed to something acceptable for cutting metal. Not a great, nor expensive band saw, and with only a ten inch throat. But it works great for the price. Marv Bishop sdbish@Juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:53:36 -0600 From: tpierce@ghg.net (Terence J. Pierce) Subject: Re: COZY: Central Machinery tools Thanks everyone for your answers about Central Machinery tools. From the comments I got I am going to go ahead and get one of these bandsaws. Since most people answered me directly and didn't post to the group, I am pasting in their responses in case anyone else is interested. Terence J. Pierce wrote: > Does anyone have any experiences with Central Machinery Tools? > I am still looking to get a 14 inch bandsaw. I would like one that is > variable speed. > Harbor Freight Tools has one for $299.99 without dust collector hook-up > or $329.99 with dust collector hook-up. > > Will I be happy with this bandsaw, or should I be looking at a different > brand? > > Any help would be appreciated, > > -- > Terry Pierce <>< mailto:tpierce@ghg.net > Cozy Mark IV #600 From: "Nat Puffer" Terence, The least expensive one that works should be fine. I started out in 1976 with a very old-fashioned band saw that I bought used at a garage sale for $40. Regards, Nat _______________________________________________________ From: Michael Pollock I have the Harbor Freight Tools 12" bandsaw and I love it. The price when I purchased it 5 months ago was around $129.00. Michael.Pollock@mci.com Flying Velocity N173DT Building Cozy MKIV #643 _________________________________________________________ From: wilhelmson@scra.org I have this exact bandsaw. I payed 299 with the dust collector. It is a very good machine. The dust collector is not worth the thirty dollars. I have resaw up to six inches of very hard wood with this saw with no problem. Jack Wilhelmson. _______________________________________________________ From: Rick Roberts Organization: R & R Engineering Central Machinery Tools are the classic Taiwan/Red China knock-off of American tools. Do they work, yes, are they the best, not by a long shot. If you send a day of so tweaking it in it will give you pretty good service. I have one of their mill/drills and it is built like a tank, but it's not the most accurate thing I've ever seen, do I care? not really. I've been eyeballing the same bandsaw for a while, I'll buy one, because the next alternative is the same thing from Enco ($50 more) Delta ($200 more). I've often wondered how Harbor freight can even ship the stuff for the prices they charge. Rick _______________________________________________________ From: CCady Hi Terry, I have purchased many tools from Central Machinery with pretty good luck. I got a Jet bandsaw (Taiwan) from another vendor and have had pretty good luck with it. I was surprised that I could get a replacement part for it also. Some of the castings are not that great but it's worked for me. I get cheap fine tooth bandsaw blades and when they are fresh they will cut 1/4" aluminum very easy. Their paint spray guns work pretty good also. I would stay away from taps, dies and hacksaw blades as they are trash! Cliff ________________________________________________________ From: BCGARDNER I've ordered from Harbor Freight Tools before and have been pleased with their stuff. It's not the same as ordering top-drawer industrial-quality equipment but I think the trade-off is reasonable for the price. I just placed an order last night for a pressure sandblaster for $90, including the hood. I have no experience with their made-in-Taiwan tool line, so someone else may be a better guide. Generally speaking, magazines like Fine Homebuilding have given good reviews to the Taiwanese machine tools. I got a 14" Powermatic bandsaw, used, from one of my former employers for $100 , though it's not variable speed. I had a defective hand tool once. I called Harbor Freight to complain. They sent me a new one based on my report and didn't even require me to send the defective one back. Good luck, whatever you decide. Barry Gardner Cozy plans #390 _______________________________________________________________ From: RonKidd I bought the saw from H Freight to use with my Cozy 3 project. It worked fine. It is not as accurate as a more expensive saw (crummy blade guides) but it worked fine for the money (any cutting on foams or glass within 1/16" is fine). The bird has been flying for 8 years (500 hr.) now and I still use the saw for woodworking. Ron Kidd Cozy 417CZ ____________________________________________________ -- Terry Pierce <>< mailto:tpierce@ghg.net Cozy Mark IV #600 From: Cozy7971 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:25:39 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Central Machinery tools In a message dated 98-03-30 12:58:54 EST, tpierce@ghg.net writes: << Harbor Freight Tools has one for $299.99 without dust collector hook-up or $329.99 with dust collector hook-up. Will I be happy with this bandsaw, or should I be looking at a different brand? >> You might want to post your question to the woodworking newsgroup. There has been a lot of discussion about Central Machinery and Grizzly. To paraphrase the discussion, the tools are ok for the amatuer but would not hold up well to production work. I read that as meaning that it would be fine for use by a homebuilder. I think with any of their equipment you would have to take extra care in the setup for any cut and frequently check the equipment for alignment. You might consider shopping in the want ads for used equipment. I've seen some Craftsman equipment for sale for some very low prices. Dick Finn From: "Jason Holifield" Subject: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:12:47 -0500 Howdy Y'all ;) My plans should be arriving any day and I am anxious to get started....but before I do I have a million questions. The one that is the most pertinant to me at the present is .... will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth spending, or will I do just fine with the balance method?? I'm pretty sure this has been a topic before but help me get up to speed here guys. I would love to buy the pump, but I'm afraid that is just the tool junkie coming out in me. Those of you that have experience with both methods (Marc) : ) please tell it like it is. thanks a million Jason Holifield Birmingham Al From: SWrightFLY Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:43:32 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) In a message dated 98-04-14 02:20:17 EDT, you write: << will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth >> You becha. I'm on my 3rd EZ and used the balance on the first. I will never go back to that. Steve Wright From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 8:48:29 EDT Jason Holifield wrote; >.... will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth spending, Yes. >..... or will I do just fine with the balance method?? Yes. If you're real cheap, you can do just fine with a balance, and many people do. It's a personal preference, really. Personally, I love having the pump - I built the Q2 with a balance and to me it was a pain in the keister. However, other people will tell you it's no problem whatsoever. So, if you've got $250, get an adjustable pump. If not, use a balance and don't sweat it - both will work fine. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:13:48 -0400 Another option, not quite as cheap as the balance but much less than a pump, is a postal scale as sold by Wicks and AS&S. You can store the resin and hardener in plastic squeeze bottles, bicycle water bottles work well. I've done all my epoxy measuring with this method, works just fine. I made a chart that hangs on the wall that has resin weight and hardener weight, so I don't have to figure what 100:44 is when I need 250 gm of resin etc. Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:21:33 +0200 From: Jean-Jacques CLAUS Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Jason Holifield wrote: > My opinion is NO PUMP. - expensive - can't use more than one epoxy system without upgrade ( most of them ) - needs some maintenance - etc ... And i prefer to use the weight ratio instead of the volume ratio. The density of the resin and the hardener are not the same, so the volume ratio is only good at an accurate temperature ( see your epoxy system data sheet ). I use an electronic letter balance ( for the stamp value choice ). Hope to help someone, Jean-Jacques CLAUS French Cosy Builder Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:36:41 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) My scale has a low friction bearing... still working since Nov '92 Never cleaned it. As Marc says...it's a poor mans dream! Can send sketches via e-mail if you want, if you can't view .jpg files I can send it in . BMP! Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm (home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za RSA Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:45:35 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) I didn't buy pump. I ordered a couple pumps from Hersheys syrup ad. I then pump directly to cups on weight scale (per plans). Two squirts of epoxy into one, three into other cup, until scale balances out. My plane is just about done. It worked great. No waste, probably takes an extra 2 minutes to zero scale, pump and mix per batch. I would do it the same way next time. I then took that $250 and bought aircraft parts. Congrats on getting plans. Recommend you read the archives of this group to become familiar with potential problems, improvements. Although the plans are superb as they are, you will be prone to the same (few) oversights. Good luck! -al wick 73% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. Working towards engine ignite. On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:12:47 -0500 "Jason Holifield" writes: >Howdy Y'all ;) >My plans should be arriving any day and I am anxious to get started....but >before I do I have a million questions. The one that is the most pertinant >to me at the present is .... will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth >spending, or will I do just fine with the balance method?? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 15:11:46 EST From: "KEN SARGENT" Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) I work with over 100 tradesmen that mix resin everyday. Two years ago I introduced them to three pumps. Just walked the floor and found all still around, but they wore them out in one year. They liked them, use them every day and wore them out. Suckers hooked up 55 gallon drums to them! Got them onto more industrial style units now. I have one, but my problem is I work so infrequently now that I spend a lot of time fiddling with it. I havn't done any major lay-ups yet, and that would be the key time to keep it up. Plus I use a lot of different epoxies, so I batch them on a scale alot. So... if you are going to work on your project every day and have some long days, I would recommend getting the pump. If you are going to work infrequently and do small batches, I would weigh the material out. Used the balance method on the Varize and never had a batch go bad. Ken Sargent Cozy #555 k_n_sargent@webtv.net Ken_Sargent@wda.disney.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Jason Holifield wrote; >.... will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth spending, >..... or will I do just fine with the balance method?? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:19:06 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) From: mikefly@juno.com (Michael B Bowden) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:12:47 -0500 "Jason Holifield" writes: >Howdy Y'all ;) >My plans should be arriving any day and I am anxious to get >started....but >before I do I have a million questions. The one that is the most >pertinant >to me at the present is .... will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be >worth >spending, or will I do just fine with the balance method?? I'm pretty >sure >this has been a topic before but help me get up to speed here guys. I >would >love to buy the pump, but I'm afraid that is just the tool junkie >coming out >in me. Those of you that have experience with both methods (Marc) : ) >please >tell it like it is. >thanks a million >Jason Holifield >Birmingham Al > > > I use a single cup balance that has served me very well. I did not use wire and brass tube bearings.Four small ball bearing were used. ( Around $10 each ten years ago! ) It is very accurate, but time consuming. I'm sure a pump would have made lay-ups quicker and maybe even a little lighter. Mike _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:17:42 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Jason, I built a LEZ using the plan ratio scale and have built the MKIV using a pump. The pump is worth the investment. dd From: Fritzx2 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:23:07 EDT Subject: Fwd: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Jason Holifield asked: > will the extra cost of the Epoxy pump be worth > spending, or will I do just fine with the balance method?? Having done it both ways, I would say that the pump is well worth the money spent. However, I didn't buy a pump in the beginning because with a pump, the hardener and the resin is exposed to the air for long periods of times in between use. Some epoxies have a more adverse reaction to moisture (and CO2 I think) than others. The pump reservoirs are by no means air tight. In fact, the one I bought from J & B Products out of Wicks had holes in the tupperware lids so that air can replace the fluid that gets pumped out. Check the epoxy first and see if it shouldn't be exposed to the air. I replaced the supplied tupperware type reservoirs with sealed metal containers made from old epoxy cans and capped off the pump outlet tubes. Might sound extreme but it keeps me from wondering if the air is in any way damaging the epoxy. I meant to post a note to the group describing what I did along with some pictures I took but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Anyone interested? At least one other person I know of has converted their pump to an air tight system. John Fritz Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:49:59 -0400 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: COZY: RE: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) John Fritz Writes: Snip> I replaced the supplied Tupperware type reservoirs with sealed metal containers made from old epoxy cans and capped off the pump outlet tubes. Might sound extreme but it keeps me from wondering if the air is in any way damaging the epoxy. End< At the risk of re-opening a line of discussion that is well documented in the achieves: If you seal the cans what happens to the volume resulting from the displaced epoxy? Either the can must collapse resulting from the vacuum that must be created, epoxy will not completely fill the cylinders of the pumping mechanism resulting in a bad mix ratio, or you have an air leak which puts you back to square one which is the same as the Tupperware containers with a hole in the top. The suggestion that I placed, and is archived, is to use a plastic bag over the top of the epoxy. The bag is set loose and in contact with the epoxy. As the epoxy is used the bag follows down on top of the epoxy. This achieves the same effect that John is striving for but there is no vacuum to contend with, and you maintain visual identification of the epoxy level without opening the can and adding more unwanted air. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Tel (613) 253 2229 (H) Ottawa, (613) 599 3280 ext. 441 or 232 Ontario, Cozy MKIV RG #30 Canada. Subaru EG33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Comte" Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:49:10 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Fritzx2 < snip I replaced the supplied tupperware type >reservoirs with sealed metal containers made from >old epoxy cans and capped off the pump outlet tubes. Might >sound extreme but it keeps me from wondering if the >air is in any way damaging the epoxy. I meant to post a >note to the group describing what I did along with some >pictures I took but I haven't gotten around to it yet. >Anyone interested? > YES :-) What are you replacing the liquid with when it is pumped out of the "sealed" container? Does anyone know if a desiccant material like that packed in electronic equipment gives off any fumes? If not, an alternate to vapor contamination devices like bladders or pistons would be a filter and desiccant chamber on each tank vents. Pump use in general: How often are people sampling their pump for the correct ratio? >At least one other person I know of has converted their pump >to an air tight system. > >John Fritz >Fritzx2@aol.com > Best Regards, Paul Comte From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:01:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Was written seal/inert gas epoxy pump containers I have with 2427, floated saran wrap platic film on the surface, sticking to the sides with the stick material, seemed to help, but not perfect. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:01:30 -0400 From: "Edmond A. Richards" Subject: COZY: RE: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) This topic was covered some time ago and should be in the archives. = However I can't resist the urge to respond to the idea of using a plastic= bag to "seal" the epoxy tubs on the pump. Plastic bags will not provide an airtight seal. A metal container will. = The solution to the problem of introducing air each time the pump is used= is purge the volume above the epoxy with a "dry" gas after use to displac= e the air then close airtight. This allows the material to sit for long periods of time without degrading. Sorry for using more bandwidth on this but these two approaches are not equivalent. Ed Richards Cozy #88 From: Fritzx2 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:13:08 EDT Subject: Fwd: COZY: RE: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Phillip Johnson writes: > If you seal the cans what happens to the volume resulting from the > displaced epoxy? Since I used cans, I am able to and do unscrew the lids when I use the pump so that the ratio accuracy is unaffected. The plastic wrap is better than nothing but for a little more work I now have something that is better than the plastic wrap and is at least as good as using the epoxy out of the can with a scale with the added convenience of using a pump. John Fritz Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:44:08 -0400 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: COZY: RE: To pump or not to pump?(epoxy) Ed Richards writes: >Plastic bags will not provide an airtight seal. A metal container will. When you put the plastic bag into the epoxy/hardener container you arrange it so that when the container is empty the bag is not stretched, but you also lay it over the epoxy/hardener so that there is the minimum of air above the liquid. You then allow the bag to come over the top of the Tupperware container and double it back over the outside. You then replace the lid so that the bag is trapped at the Tupperware seal. This seal is about as good as it gets. The only air that is in contact with the epoxy/ hardener is the air that you put in at the time of filling and that volume is small. The process is overkill and at the end of the day you will still find that the hardener thickens with time unless you re-heat it and shake it vigorously. The tin can method is no better than using the stock Tupperware containers with a piece of masking tape over the vent hole. The vent hole will still work to vent the container because the tape is porous. I've tried it and the container shows no sign of deformation when the pump is used, even with large quantities being used so clearly no vacuume is being created. What's the benefit of this last method? Simplicity and the ability to see the epoxy level. The space above the liquid remains saturated with the volatiles so no replenishment of these volatiles will take place because the top does not need to be removed to see the level. What's the benefit of the first method? This is for the purists in the group. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Tel (613) 253 2229 (H) Ottawa, (613) 599 3280 ext. 441 or 232 Ontario, Cozy MKIV RG #30 Canada. Subaru EG33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg and Jill Hilliard Subject: COZY: saber saw blades Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:42:23 -0500 Nat wrote: Dear Cozy builders, Just a caution about trimming fiberglass layups on your bandsaw. = Fiberglass ruins band saw blades in a hurry, so they are no good for cutting = aluminum or anything else. Better to use a sabresaw. I take my old bandsaw blades and cut them into short strips that I can use in my sabresaw. I then = throw them away after cutting fiberglass.=20 Best regards, Nat I found the very coolest saber saw blade at Oshkosh last year in the fly = market. Instead of cutting teeth, it has an abrasive coating of tungsten = carbide glued on. This thing will not wear out, and makes a very clean = cut without pulling on the glass, so no worry about the delamination = problems. Of course, I threw the package away and don't remember who = made it, so I guess I've got a fly market hunting trip in august to look = forward to. look for the guy selling drill bits. Greg Hilliard Cozy mk4 #456 gjhilliard@idcnet.com From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 17:44:40 -0600 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Protecting Foam bil kleb wrote: >warning about using a sabre saw: it's motion is both up and down, instead >of purely downward as with the bandsaw. i found that unless you are >very careful in securing the layup, that the sabre-saw motion can delaminate >the edges of layups due to the upward stroke. Agree. Besides the fact that my saber saw is rather squirly (or is that me :-)). A band saw is not "required" for building this bird. If you don't have one, a "High" quality saber saw will get ya by certainly. I did find some saber blades that have zero kerf (if that's the right word); made for cutting paneling without riping the edges. Also found some blades that cut on the down stroke (that one has some interesting side effects; but works). Tried 'em all and still favor my band saw. I'm bulding the nose now and only tossed one blade so far. Nat is right about glass killing the blade. The one I tossed was the one that came with the unit {cheap wood blade} and it was declared dead after cutting the 1/4" main gear hard points to shape. That was a long time ago. Bought a high quality {translate: expensive} 1/4" wide metal blade and still use it regularly for metal and glass. I just cut the NG-30s with it. Like Bill, I have also found that any saw: saber, hand, scroll, or band can and will delam the edge. The severity depends on the number of teeth per inch (fewer teeth = more delam) and how fast you try to go. Also depends on wheather you use a backup material such as wood. Even though I use a fine-tooth metal blade, I still cut a bit (0.1" or thereabouts) outside the line and block sand the rest. Not trying to argue with Nat; he has a good point. We each use the methods that we feel comfortable with. Sharing the methods is a good way to gain from the experience of others without the hard-knocks price (most of the time). Larry Schuler lschuler@cellular.uscc.com From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: saber saw blades Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:40:57 -0400 Greg Hilliard wrote: >I found the very coolest saber saw blade at Oshkosh last year in the fly market. Instead of cutting >teeth, it has an abrasive coating of tungsten carbide glued on. ...... Of course, I threw the package >away and don't remember who made it, so I guess I've got a fly market hunting trip in august to look >forward to. look for the guy selling drill bits. I found one of those blades at Home Depot about a year and a half ago, I would imagine they still have them. Mine is still going strong also. I've found very little delamination problem using this bit at moderate speed settings. Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:37:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: Protecting Foam Blades are available for the Bosch jigsaw that cut both directions. If you use blades with closely spaced teeth, the tearing will be minimal. Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 23:12:49 -0400 From: Ian Douglas Subject: COZY: Mixing Cups Any Canadian Canardians out there? I am running out of mixing cups (the ones that came from Wicks) and have been all over the city of Ottawa trying to find more (I don't want to have to get cups shipped from the States). I have tried all the fast food places and none of them are willing to sell a package of "sunday" cups. I have looked at most of the party outlet places and all the grocery and 1 or 2 dollar joints. Where do you get them in Canada? -- Best regards, Ian D.S. Douglas Cozy MKIV #0069 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Mixing Cups From: mikefly@juno.com (Michael B Bowden) Ian, I've been using Solo 9 oz. ( 266 ml. ) plastic cups for several years. I get them at a local grocery. They are cheap & reusable. Either wipe clean or pour out excess and let remainder cure. Mike Bowden Two EZ MS1 On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 23:12:49 -0400 Ian Douglas writes: >Any Canadian Canardians out there? > >I am running out of mixing cups (the ones that came from Wicks) and >have >been all over the city of Ottawa trying to find more (I don't want to >have to get cups shipped from the States). I have tried all the fast >food places and none of them are willing to sell a package of "sunday" >cups. I have looked at most of the party outlet places and all the >grocery and 1 or 2 dollar joints. Where do you get them in Canada? >-- >Best regards, >Ian D.S. Douglas >Cozy MKIV #0069 > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:40:20 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Mixing Cups I use: Plastic ice-cream cups... Yogurt cups.. jam tins margarine tubs you name it I've used it, in short any container that my wife and son save in boxes for me... why pay for a container you will throw away when you have throw-away containers in the house? Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm (home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za RSA Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:07:46 -0400 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: COZY: Mixing Cups Ian Douglas Writes: snip> Any Canadian Canardians out there? .............. End> Yes there is one here in Ottawa: I use the small Dixie cups for most of my work, and mix small batches. I am still using my original supply of the large ones I bought from AS East (formerly Alexander Aircraft) six years ago. I will be placing an order with Wicks in the next two or three weeks so if you need to piggyback my order just give me a call. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Tel (613) 253 2229 (H) Ottawa, (613) 599 3280 ext. 232 Ontario, Cozy MKIV RG #30 Canada. Subaru EG33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hunter GA (Gary) at MSXSCC" Subject: COZY: Mixing Cups - The Whole Story Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:19:10 -0500 OK, The most important thing we need to understand in determining what kind of mixing cup to use is what they are made of. Plastic cups like butter tubs and such are fine. Even the thin plastic Dixie Color Cold Drinking cups are OK. However, the main problem you may run into with these type cups is that they will melt when and if the left over resin exotherms on you. When the cup melts, the resin runs all over your bench top and makes a nasty mess. So, metal prevents this and paper does too. BUT - MOST Paper Dixie cups are wax lined. This is bad. The wax can dissolve into the epoxy while it is liquid. When the resin cures, the wax becomes insoluble and separates out of the resin forming a very thin hard to detect waxy film on the surface. This will have extremely detrimental effects on secondary bonds. NOT GOOD. So, be certain what you are using is NOT waxed. At Shell Chemical, the preferred Dixie cup is the HOT DRINK cup that has a little handle built into to. This (10 oz.) HOT DRINK cup is made from Polyethylene lined paper and will not have any effects on secondary bonds. They look very similar to some wax lined cups. You can find them at most grocery stores but not all. You have to look for them. If you want larger cups, you can look for those at the grocery store too. Usually in the picnic supplies section. They are used for cole slaw and potato salads - stuff like that. BUT, many of those are wax lined too. So be careful. You can identify a waxed cup by: >reading the label - before you buy it. >scratching the surface with your fingernail - the wax will come off. >pouring boiling water into it watching it melt apart. Gary Hunter EAA Technical Counselor Vari-Eze - N235GH gahunter@shellus.com From: "Hunter GA (Gary) at MSXSCC" Subject: COZY: RE: Mixing Cups Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:57:13 -0500 Verne "Catman" Simon wrote: > In my experience there is nothing sacred about using only unwaxed 8 oz > paper cups. In a pinch I've used clear plastic cups which do not impart > any chemicals (that I'm aware of) into the epoxy mix. After curing I have > detected no weakness in the bond strength compared to epoxy mixed in the > unwaxed cups. > Agreed - clear plastic cups are fine.... just avoid the waxed cups :-) Gary Hunter From: "Wilhelmson, Jack" Subject: RE: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Mixing Cups Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:01:30 -0400 Mixing cups for epoxy should not be wax coated. Most cold cups are and most hot cups are not, therefore buy cups that are intended for hot beverages and they will work fine. The wax in the cold cups will contaminate the epoxy. Jack Wilhelmson N711CZ From: Guy TERREN Subject: COZY: Drill numbers Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:59:04 +0100 Hi all, I need some help with drill numbers. Poor minded as i am, i can't understand your number's serial for drills. What means #10 and #12 drill ? How do you calculate this in inch ? Thanks for your help Guy Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:03:12 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Drill numbers Guy, One source for this information is AC65-9A, Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics General Handbook, page 540. A #10 is .1935, and #12 is .1890. As a reference, a 3/16 bit is .1875. Both are slightly larger than a 3/16 bit. dd From: "Bob Berg" Subject: Re: COZY: Cheap Vacuum Pump for vac bagging? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:58:07 -0700 Darren, I'm no expert on venturi vacuum pumps, but I think you'll need a reasonable-sized air compressor to make it function. You might want to look at the volume of air required to produce the vacuum you're looking for (probably around 15 inches for blue foam, though some folks use less). I chose to build a vacuum pump from a piston-type auto air conditioner compressor and a washing machine motor. The motor even has two speeds, permitting a rather slow RPM setting which works just fine. If I ever have a really big layup, I can always crank it up to speed the evacuation process. Doubt that'll ever be an issue. Hope that helps! Bob Berg #684 -----Original Message----- From: Darren DeLoach To: cozy_builders@canard.com Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 8:01 AM Subject: COZY: Cheap Vacuum Pump for vac bagging? >Harbor Freight has a "venturi-type vacuum pump", item 03952-2RXA, for >$12.99 which claims to be able to produce a vacuum of 28.3" at 90PSI, with >a 1/4" NPT connection. From catalog: "Ideal for automotive air >conditioners, home air conditioners, refrigerators, freezers, and more." >In the picture, it's a big red metal cabinet with the air connector hanging >out the front (no photo of rear). > >Sounds like a great vacuum bagging pump, but the low price has me >skeptical. Would you need something additional to make this work, like a >motor? Or would this be a completely self-contained unit, just plug in a >regulator and a line an start pumping? > > > > >-- Darren DeLoach >http://www.deloach.com >Chap. 7 > From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:44:56 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Cheap Vacuum Pump for vac bagging? In a message dated 98-07-17 10:18:43 EDT, you write: << Would you need something additional to make this work, like a motor? >> Darren, I think you would need an air compressor to provide the 90 psi through the venturi. HTH, Steve Miles Cozy MkIV 272 From: Greg and Jill Hilliard Subject: COZY: Re:Cheap Vacuum Pump Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:36:09 -0500 Darren DeLoach writes- Harbor Freight has a "venturi-type vacuum pump", item 03952-2RXA, for $12.99 which claims to be able to produce a vacuum of 28.3" at 90PSI, with a 1/4" NPT connection. Darren- I bought one of these units from wicks, as made by West Systems. It is true that it will pull quite a bit vacuum just by hooking it up to an air supply, but other drawbacks have made me stop using mine. I got mine last winter and hooked it up to my 5 horse (decent "handyman" size) air compressor. It performed as advertised and I used it to bag my bulkheads. In order to keep up with the venturi, my compressor was running about 80% of the time, which is not really good for the compressor and loud. The venturi also sounds like a small jet engine. Since it was winter, I figured the neighbor's windows were all closed and wouldn't mind this racket going all night long, but I knew I had to find another fix before spring. The fix I found was a used refrigerator compressor which I bought from a local repair guy for $10 and a cooling fan I bought from Shopko for $12. The compressor is the old "pancake" style which are supposedly tough as nails, and I have the fan because the thing got very warm after an hour or so. Now I have a cheap pump which I can barely hear from a couple feet away. Greg Hilliard Cozy Mk4 #456, middle of ch6 gjhilliard@idcnet.com From: "Bob Berg" Subject: Re: COZY: Cheap Vacuum Pump for vac bagging? Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:42:23 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Darren DeLoach To: cozy_builders@canard.com Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 8:01 AM Subject: COZY: Cheap Vacuum Pump for vac bagging? >Harbor Freight has a "venturi-type vacuum pump", item 03952-2RXA, for >$12.99 which claims to be able to produce a vacuum of 28.3" at 90PSI, SNIP Darren, Jim Brewer reminded me of a web site which details the construction of a vacuum pump using a refrigerator compressor: http://web2.airmail.net/redmonj/sucker.htm Another good option. Bob Berg Mk IV #684 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:37:37 -0500 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: COZY: [Tools] Riveting Last April I took one of this builders confrence courses. I highly recommend it. It gives a general overview of building techniques, including composite, sheetmetal, tube and fabric, and a little on rules and engines. The sheet metal course was wonderful. We actually built a little airfoil section. I know on my airplane I did a really poor job of riveting, mostly because no one had shown me how. It usually took 2 or 3 tries to get a single rivet to look like anything in any of the books. After the third rivet in the course, I was making 'em all pretty good. The instructor insisted a 2X or 3X gun was minimum for doing sheet metal work. I took his word for it, I had a air chisel, and they all look the same, but he insisted the "muffler cutter" wouldn't have the power to pound rivets. I was at a tool store one day, and found a flush rivet set for $3, and thought I should get it. I did, and threw it in the drawer with my air tools. I figured either I would use it, or I would loan it to someone else. Monday I needed to rivet on some nut plates to some aluminium, and saw my rivet set, and thought, what the heck, I'll try it. I put it in my air chisel, and set the rivet in the aluminium, and hit it. It worked! I'll never recomend this to anyone building an RV or T-18, but for the Cozy, hey, it seems to work. I have a Campbel Hausfield air chisel with a regulator built in. I turned it down maybe 1/4, and carefully squeezed the trigger. It doesn't hammer like a rivet gun, kinda wimpy, so it takes a second or so longer. For 100 rivets who cares, for 1000 rivets, forget it. These are just my experiences. Take them or leave them. Normal disclaimers apply, read and follow all labels, don't use while operating heavy machinery, where eye and body protection. From: Lee810@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:13:23 EDT Subject: COZY: Fein sander I was contemplating getting a Fein sander based on some of the favorable comments I've heard on the canard and cozy mailing lists. I saved the URL (http://www.sandingcatalog.com/feinsander.htm) and looked it over recently and noticed that it looked a lot like my Ryobi corner detail sander. However, most of the comments were not about its sanding function, but rather some sort of saw attachment which allows you to cut very straight lines in cured fiberglass. Would some kind person look over the URL and let me know which accessories would be necessary to get the benefit from this tool that people periodically rave about? Thanks, Lee Devlin LongEZ N36MX http://members.aol.com/lee810 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:02:13 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: Re: COZY: Fein sander At 03:13 PM 8/10/98 EDT, you wrote: >I was contemplating getting a Fein sander based on some of the favorable >comments I've heard on the canard and cozy mailing lists. I saved the URL >(http://www.sandingcatalog.com/feinsander.htm) and looked it over recently and >noticed that it looked a lot like my Ryobi corner detail sander. However, >most of the comments were not about its sanding function, but rather some sort >of saw attachment which allows you to cut very straight lines in cured >fiberglass. Would some kind person look over the URL and let me know which >accessories would be necessary to get the benefit from this tool that people >periodically rave about? > >Thanks, > >Lee Devlin LongEZ N36MX http://members.aol.com/lee810 > Hi Lee, I have both a Ryobi detail sander and a Fein detail sander. About the only similarity is in the name and slightly in the looks. The Fein is so far superior as to put it in an entirely different class. You just cannot appreciate the difference until you actually experience it! Probably the much higher speed has something to do with it but there's more--it's just a really high quality tool and for we'uns that have so much sanding to do, I think it is well worth the price. I got the saw attachment but mine is only steel--great for wood but I wouldn't try it on glass. However they do offer a diamond edge blade which will cut tile, etc. and I'll eventually get that one. I don't want to even think of the price since nothing that Fein sells is inexpensive. But just using the wood blade gives you a taste of what is possible. The blade moves back and forth maybe a sixteenth or so--not enough to cut skin--, does not have a kerf and is capable of cutting flush with a surface. My hanger partner, an accomplished wood worker, has used it often to do tasks that would be much harder any other way. I couldn't recommend it more!! 11597 Summerhome Park Road Forestville, CA 95436 707.887.7260 Cozy#413 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13. Chaps 16 & 24 mostly finished. Chapters 20 and 21 finished. From: "Brown, Michael" Subject: Re: COZY: Fein sander Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:56:00 -0700 Steel blade works great on glass - I used it more than the sanding attachment. With practice, even curved cuts are easy. This tool should be listed right next to epoxy pump as a necessary part of a Cozy project. Mike Brown N97PZ PS - My first trip to OSH was great, despite the various "Lows" published by this group (all of which I agree with). Nat - be sure your newsletter includes our airplane as one in attendance. Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:25:12 -0700 From: michael amick Subject: Re: COZY: Fein sander Brown, Michael wrote: > > Steel blade works great on glass - I used it more than the sanding > attachment. With practice, even curved cuts are easy. This tool should > be listed right next to epoxy pump as a necessary part of a Cozy > project. > I have never heard of a "Fein Sander". Can you be more descriptive? Michael Amick Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:24:25 -0400 From: Neil Clayton Subject: COZY: Spot facings tools Chap 9 (undercarridge) of the Cozy plans call for; 1) a 1/4" piloted 5/8" dia Spot Facing tool, and 2) a 1/4" piloted 3/4" dia Spot Facing tool Can I beg/borrow/steal/buy/rent these tools from someone? Thx Neil From: ERacerVinn@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:59:01 EDT Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Spot facings tools In a message dated 8/14/98 9:21:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, harvey4@earthlink.net writes: << [The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] Chap 9 (under carriage) of the Cozy plans call for; 1) a 1/4" piloted 5/8" dia Spot Facing tool, and 2) a 1/4" piloted 3/4" dia Spot Facing tool Can I beg/borrow/steal/buy/rent these tools from someone? Thx Neil >> Niel, These spot facing tools have a limited life as they get dull easily. I drilled my wing attach holes with one and it was junk by the last hole, I had to stop and sharpen the tool several times with a stone on my Dremel to keep it functional. A used spot facing tool in good condition may be hard to find. I bought my spotfacing tools from Aircraft Spruce and they weren't too expensive. Good luck, Bruce "micro dust" Vinnola From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:18:42 EDT Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Spot facings tools In a message dated 8/14/98 10:44:17 PM Central Daylight Time, harvey4@earthlink.net writes: << Chap 9 (under carriage) of the Cozy plans call for; 1) a 1/4" piloted 5/8" dia Spot Facing tool, and 2) a 1/4" piloted 3/4" dia Spot Facing tool Can I beg/borrow/steal/buy/rent these tools from someone? >> I did my work using a hole saw. This was after failing with two spot facing tools. They dull easily and basically do not hold an edge. Further, the shaft they give you bends easily. I used the type of hole saw that you insert a drill bit in. As I remember it, I used a 1/4" bit 12" long as the pilot. The trick is that a hole 3/4" hole saw is actually a little bigger then 3/4" due to the teeth having a set. I chucked the hole saw in my drill press and started it spining. I then held a file against the teeth to knock off the set. It worked great for me at a fraction of the cost. As always, I offer no guarantee and your results may vary. There was a great discussion related to this on the Cozy mailing list some time ago. You might check the archives. Dick Finn From: Don Bowen Subject: COZY: Tools Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:20:16 -0700 I wanted to pass along a tool tip for making our aluminum parts. There is a special file that works really well on aluminum. It is called a "VIXEN" file. It is different from a standard type file in that the cutting edges are shaped like a scallop instead of being diagonal to the axis of the file. This file really cuts through aluminum and leaves a very smooth surface. I picked up this tip from an old A & P mechanic I used to work with. I got my file at a garage sale for fifty cents, so I cannot recommend any specific retail outlet. Try it, you'll like it. Don Bowen Cozy Mk IV s/n 440 From: sdbish@juno.com Subject: COZY: Band Saws Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:52:12 EDT Larry Schuler wrote: Band saw I use is made for wood (= cheap 14" Menards import version); however, I use a fine-tooth metal cutting blade. I wouldn't use a coarse blade; it would delaminate the underside too much without backup material. For an inexpensive band saw, I purchased one of the 10" 3-wheel models. Sears and several other brand names are available. I paid $100 in 1987. This model is for wood only, with a single speed which is too fast for metal. However, by replacing the drive belt, with a longer belt running around the motor pulley and over the blade drive pulley (take off the rubber tire on the drive pulley), I was able to slow down the balde speed. Put on a fine tooth metal blade, and had an inexpensive metal cutting band saw. If you want more info, email direct to sdbish@juno.com Marv Bishop _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:41:09 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Band Saws I have purchased, over the years, a pretty complete set of tools (hand tools, hand power and stationary power) and find them all a big help in building the Cozy. This is not a direction I would advise people to follow. If you are building a single plane and thats it, buy used and, with some care, cheap copies of brand name tools(i.e. Grizzly Imports or a lot of the stuff from Harbor Tools). In addition to building a Cozy I have been into woodworking and cabinet making for about 25 years. I enjoy mechanics work on my cars and generally put my tools to a lot of use. I'm also your basic "tool guy" as witnessed by my collection of antique hand tools. If you are going to spend a bundle on tools you need a better reason than building a Cozy. The plane just doesn't require that big a tool investment. As a suggestion to those starting. Don't buy something unless you see a need. Shop the want ads. I recently saw a Sears Craftsman 120" table saw fdor $50. Shop some estate sales or garage sales that advertise tools in their ads. Buy mail order from Harbor Freight and avoid the sales tax. You can save a bundle by buying carefully. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:24:06 -0400 From: Phillip Subject: COZY: Tools To Start With.... Nat, in Chapter 3, gives a list of tools for building the COZY MARK IV. There are a few.."High Ticket"...items such as.....Hand-Held Belt Sander, Bench Type Belt and Disc Sander, Drill Press, Miter Saw, 14" Band Saw, Orbital Sander. I was curious at what point during construction these tools are required. I am just starting chapter 4 and don't really want to buy tools now that I won't be using for possibly years to come. Any advice would be appreciated. Phillip Sill, #707 Chapter 4 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:08:47 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: Re: COZY: Tools To Start With.... Phil: I am only on Chapter 5 but can "see" through at least Chapter 7. Here are my opinions/experiences thus far: A hand-held belt sander is not necessary, but certainly helpful. It can be clamped upside down to your table and take the place of the bench type belt and disc sander. I used mine to taper the upper longeron stiffeners at the ends to the proper angles. A drill press doesn't seem to be necessary. I have one and doubt that I will use it any time soon, if ever. A miter saw doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary. I've used my table saw to cut some of the foam, particularly the angles, and all of the wood. There are only a few critical angles to be mitered (specifically, the lower aft longerons). A hand saw miter box is inexpensive and could easily suffice. I don't have a band saw. I wish that I did. It certainly isn't necessary but would make bulding easier. However, between spending the money on a band saw and spending the same money on parts, I'd buy the parts. I have to admit that my attitude towards tools affects this decision. Having bought my share of inferior quality tools in the past, I have become somewhat of a tool snob. Unless I can afford a high quality tool, I won't buy it. High quality band saws aren't cheap! I have a random orbit sander. It isn't necessary but such a wonderful tool that I'd recommend buying one when you can. It works well for almost any sanding job that you might have, plane-related or otherwise. The only thing I've used it for thus far is to make the control stick depressions in the fuselage sides and to get the excess layer of epoxy off the outside of the upper longerons. Hope this helps. Jody Hart Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648 Finishing Chapter 5 N359JH (reserved) From: "Allan Aaron" Subject: RE: COZY: Tools To Start With.... Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:50:57 +1000 As for tools required and when to buy them, check the archives - there were some real gems in there. My own experience now that I've just about finished all the structure is - > A hand-held belt sander is not necessary, but certainly > helpful. It can be > clamped upside down to your table and take the place of the bench > type belt and > disc sander. I used mine to taper the upper longeron stiffeners > at the ends to > the proper angles. I have a bench mounted sanding disk and a B&D Power File. Both are very helpful (I think the Power File is my most used tool!) Don't think you need a belt sander. > > A drill press doesn't seem to be necessary. I have one and > doubt that I > will use it any time soon, if ever. > I use my drill press all the time. I don't know how you'd get by without it but you can probably get past the first few chapters before it starts becoming really useful. > A miter saw doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary. I've > used my table > saw to cut some of the foam, particularly the angles, and all of the wood. > There are only a few critical angles to be mitered (specifically, > the lower aft > longerons). A hand saw miter box is inexpensive and could easily suffice. > > I don't have a band saw. I wish that I did. It certainly > isn't necessary > but would make bulding easier. I seem to get by fine with the band saw. Its probably more versatile that the miter saw. Mine is a 14" saw it works fine. I bought mine very early in the project and have used it from day one! From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:58:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Tools To Start With.... On 10/14/98 00:24:06 you wrote: > >Nat, in Chapter 3, gives a list of tools for building the COZY MARK IV. >There are a few.."High Ticket"...items such as.....Hand-Held Belt Sander, >Bench Type Belt and Disc Sander, Drill Press, Miter Saw, 14" Band Saw, >Orbital Sander. I was curious at what point during construction these >tools are required. I am just starting chapter 4 and don't really want to >buy tools now that I won't be using for possibly years to come. Any advice >would be appreciated. > >Phillip Sill, #707 >Chapter 4 > > > 2 Dremel tools, one router base 1 Bosch hand held saber saw (for the little required will cut 1/4" 4130 steel) 1 each 3/8" and 1/2" variable speed reversing hand held drill motors (good quality) 1 10" table saw & joiner (maybe not necessary, but needed to make some (center spar)jigs) 1 7.5" handheld circular saw (skillsaw) 1 5" Air orbital sander (DA) 1 1hp (minimum) air compressor 5 SCFM minimum, preferably more, 1HP can support a good spray gun, check air consumption, and the DA in vibratory mode on 120 volts 20 amp circuit. Higher power require special circuits. Don't have: Drill press, mitre saw, band saw, HLVP sprayer Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:40:40 -0400 From: Phillip Subject: COZY: Tools To Start With..... Thanks to everyone who had input on this topic (Tools To Start With...) . I have an additional question though......I have seen a 1" belt sander/grinder combination and a 4" belt sander/grinder combination. Is one of these better choice?? Thanks again, Phillip Sill, #707 Chapter 4 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:05:44 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: COZY: Smart Tool Calibration I purchased a Smart Tool in anticipation of fuselage assembly and want to calibrate it before I get started. The instructions describe placing the tool on a "flat surface" for the calibration procedure. By "flat surface" do the instructions mean perfectly level? In other words, is the "flat surface" the calibration reference or is there some sort of internal reference in the tool itself? Thanks in advance for any info. -- Jody Hart New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648 Chapter 5, see latest progress at: home.gs.verio.net/~jodyhart/home.html N359JH (reserved) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:03:55 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Smart Tool Calibration Jody, re " The instructions describe placing the tool on a "flat surface" for the calibration procedure." Place the device on any flat surface and check the reading. Then rotate the level 180° and read it again. The numbers should be the same except for the up or down indicator. At least that's how I checked mine. dd From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:37:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Smart Tool Calibration Hart writes I assume a "smart Tool" is an electronic level. For any level: The reading (electronic or bubble position relative to a mark) must be the same when a level is switched end for end on level supports. 1: establish 2 level points near the ends of the level by shimming until the reading (not necessarily ZERO) is the same both positions. 2: Now make any adjustments to read level (Zero). 3: Check adjustment by end for ending the level, the reading should still be zero. 4: Check sensativity by placing a dime for a 4' long level under one end. There should be a noticeable change, if not junk it. I bought a 4' level in a small discount tool store in Detroit for about $8 8 years ago. I had everyone watching as I put the dime under one end and the other vertical and horizontal on counter tops and building columns and switching ends. It still is just fine! Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:54:58 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Drill bit # size cross reference >I looked in the archives but could not find a listing of drill # size >equivalents for a standard set of drill bits measured in 1/64th >increments. I was able to find reference to a #12 bit being >equivalent to a 3/16th bit. Does this mean that each number >increment represents 1/64th of an inch since 12 x 1/64 = 3/16? ================== Drill Size versus Diameter =================== Size Inch Size Inch Size Inch Size Inch ---- ------ ---- ------ ---- ------ ----- ----- 80 .0135 32 .1160 M .2950 15/16 .9375 79 .0145 31 .1200 19/64 .2969 61/64 .9531 1/64 .0156 1/8 .1250 N .3020 31/32 .9688 78 .0160 30 .1285 5/16 .3125 63/64 .9844 77 .0180 29 .1360 O .3160 76 .0200 28 .1405 P .3230 75 .0210 9/64 .1406 21/64 .3281 74 .0225 27 .1440 Q .3320 73 .0240 26 .1470 R .3390 72 .0250 25 .1495 11/32 .3438 71 .0260 24 .1520 S .3480 70 .0280 23 .1540 T .3580 69 .0292 5/32 .1563 23/64 .3594 68 .0310 22 .1570 U .3680 1/32 .0313 21 .1590 3/8 .3750 67 .0320 20 .1610 V .3770 66 .0330 19 .1660 W .3860 65 .0350 18 .1695 25/64 .3906 64 .0360 11/64 .1719 X .3970 63 .0370 17 .1730 Y .4040 62 .0380 16 .1770 13/32 .4063 61 .0390 15 .1800 Z .4130 60 .0400 14 .1820 27/64 .4219 59 .0410 13 .1850 7/16 .4375 58 .0420 3/16 .1875 29/64 .4531 57 .0430 12 .1890 15/32 .4688 56 .0465 11 .1910 31/64 .4844 3/64 .0469 10 .1935 1/2 .5000 55 .0520 9 .1960 33/64 .5156 54 .0550 8 .1990 17/32 .5313 53 .0595 7 .2010 35/64 .5469 1/16 .0625 13/64 .2031 9/16 .5625 52 .0635 6 .2040 37/64 .5781 51 .0670 5 .2055 19/32 .5938 50 .0700 4 .2090 39/64 .6094 49 .0730 3 .2130 5/8 .6250 48 .0760 7/32 .2188 41/64 .6406 5/64 .0781 2 .2210 21/32 .6563 47 .0785 1 .2280 43/64 .6719 46 .0810 A .2340 11/16 .6875 45 .0820 15/64 .2344 45/64 .7031 44 .0860 B .2380 23/32 .7188 43 .0890 C .2420 47/64 .7344 42 .0935 D .2460 3/4 .7500 3/32 .0938 1/4 .2500 49/64 .7656 41 .0960 E .2500 25/32 .7813 40 .0980 F .2570 51/64 .7969 39 .0995 G .2610 26/32 .8125 38 .1015 17/64 .2656 53/64 .8281 37 .1040 H .2660 27/32 .8438 36 .1065 I .2720 55/64 .8594 7/64 .1094 J .2770 7/8 .8750 35 .1100 K .2810 57/64 .8906 34 .1110 9/32 .2813 29/32 .9063 33 .1130 L .2900 59/64 .9219 ================================================================= Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:12:53 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Chattering countersinks Sorry to repeat this but the number I quoted for the Cleveland uni-flute was not their part number but a catalog number for Rutland Tool Supply. Also, there's a second style of countersink that's equally smooth . . . >> I followed the procedure you outlined in option 2. I used a piece of >> .125 scrap with a #30 pilot hole, and clamped it to the spar flange to >> guide the countersink. I still had some chatter, most likely due to the >> hole wallowing out somewhat after numerous iterations. It all came out >> fine, however. >When I use my airdrill to countersink I will occassionally experience >chatter. What kind of countersinks are you using? At RAC and in my own toolbox, I've pitched all the hardware store countersinks (designed originally for wood) that have a multitude of cutting edges. The aviation industry uses single flute cutters for most hand-held applications. Check with your local tool suppliers for Cleveland Twist Drill uni-flute countersinks. I've used these in my shop for years . . they're very smooth in thin sheet metal. Anoher nice choice is Weldon high speed steel pilotless countersinks which have the usual conical shape but replace the radial cutting edge with a hole drilled normal to the face of the cone. The 100 degree part number is CSA-8. Either style is under $10 from most tool suppliers. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Tim" Subject: COZY: cutting tool Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:11:05 -0600 Just a trick for cutting and trimming fiberglass parts. I picked up a cast cutter (used for cutting cast off of broken bones) with a serated blade at a flea market. The thing really works well at cutting and makes a lot less dust than a jig saw or sander. Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:30:56 -0800 From: George Krosse Subject: COZY: Epoxy brushes If you are near a Harbor Freight Tools outlet, they are having a sale on the 1" bristle brushes at the give away price of $4.99 for a box of 36. That figures to less than $.14 each. AS gets $.34 each. Makes cleaning brushes questionable. I have gone thru at least 5 boxes of 36 and am still not done. From: JHTanstaaf@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:40:17 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy brushes In a message dated 12/30/98 12:42:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, gtk4923@pacbell.net writes: > If you are near a Harbor Freight Tools outlet, they are having a sale on > the 1" bristle brushes at the give away price of $4.99 for a box of 36. They're on the web at www.harborfreight.com although the web shows it as 10.99 for 1" bristle brushes (they call them chip brushes). I don't know if you can get the $4.99 deal that way but it's probably worth a call (don't need them myself right now).