From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:51:12 -0600 Gary, We are insured by Avemco. We were invited to attend a dinner-presentation at Oshkosh which was hosted by a representative of the insurance industry. I don't know the extent to which Avemco was involved. Most of the other popular designs were invited and represented. Velocity, Lancair, Van's, Glasair, and others. The purpose of the meeting was to seek designer support in getting more insurance companies to write insurance on homebuilts. Avemco already does. We were told what would help to interest other insurance companies. The insurance companies want as large a data base as possible of airplanes that are all built the same way with an accident rate of less than 5 accidents per 100 airplanes per year. I didn't assure them that we met this criteria. They had the statistics on all the designs represented, and they told me that according to their data (not mine), our airplanes met their criteria. They may have considered the 3 and 4 place in the same category. They said our accident rate was 1/2 that of Cessna, which made me feel pretty proud. The Cozy record actually dates back to 1982, so there is a lot of data on us. We don't like it when airplanes not built according to our plans are represented to an insurance company as a Cozy or Cozy Mark IV. The Don Saunders non-Cozy airplane featured on the cover of Kitplanes Magazine in May 1997, which subsequently crashed twice with two large insurance claims was insured as a Cozy, at least the last time it crashed. We objected when it was advertised for salvage as a Cozy, and it obviously didn't do our accident rate or our insurability any good. Another airplane, which subsequently crashed, was registered with the FAA as a Cozy, when it really wasn't. Bottom line, you can tell your insurance company anything you want when you get insurance, but if it isn't what you say it is, you might have trouble collecting after an accident. I think the same thing applies if you have made any changes and not had them recertified by the FAA. It could void your insurance. I am not sure whether you need to be current in medical, bi-ennial, annuals, etc. to make sure your insurance is good. The thing to remember is that insurance is based on a determination of risk. If you have a one-of-a-kind airplane, the risk is harder to determine than for 100 which are all the same. It is recommended that you be completely honest in the way you register and insure your airplane. If you don't have an accident, the question will probably never come up, but then you wouldn't have needed insurance in the first place. Regards, Nat ---------- > From: Gary Dwinal > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Insurance > Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 12:51 PM > > Hi Folks, > I was in attendance at the Cozy forum at Osh Kosh and heard Nat > speak about the insurance of homebuilt airplanes. He spoke about Avemco > specifically. He stated that they like to have at least one hundred > airplanes all built the same along with an exceptional safety rating > from accidents. Nat assured them that his airplane meets this criteria > and stated because of this they will insure our airplanes with little > hassles. I am building a MarkIV and am very positive there is no where > near one hundred MarkIV's built and flying. Nat was obviously talking > about combining his three place models along with completed MarkIV's to > be able to say "100 completed and flying". My point in all of this is > I, like several builders have made changes in the construction of my > airplane using the Aero-Cad canopy, fuel stakes, engine cowlings, as > well as widening the back of my fuselage to fit the canopy and cowlings > and my airplane will be "different" from the original three place Cozy > just like the MarkIV is "different" from the three place Cozy. Will my > airplane count in this same group for insurance coverage? Just a > thought! Comments. > Gary Dwinal > From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:46:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance On 11/20/98 13:51:56 you wrote: > >Hi Folks, > I was in attendance at the Cozy forum at Osh Kosh and heard Nat >speak about the insurance of homebuilt airplanes. He spoke about Avemco >specifically. He stated that they like to have at least one hundred >airplanes all built the same along with an exceptional safety rating >from accidents. Nat assured them that his airplane meets this criteria >and stated because of this they will insure our airplanes with little >hassles. I am building a MarkIV and am very positive there is no where >near one hundred MarkIV's built and flying. Nat was obviously talking >about combining his three place models along with completed MarkIV's to >be able to say "100 completed and flying". My point in all of this is >I, like several builders have made changes in the construction of my >airplane using the Aero-Cad canopy, fuel stakes, engine cowlings, as >well as widening the back of my fuselage to fit the canopy and cowlings >and my airplane will be "different" from the original three place Cozy >just like the MarkIV is "different" from the three place Cozy. Will my >airplane count in this same group for insurance coverage? Just a >thought! Comments. >Gary Dwinal > > > My own thoughts, the modifications mentioned above are not issues, unforunately we all suffer if someone does something stupid. If really interested in pursueing I would suggest talking to Bill Snead of Avemco, he's a busy underwriter in Columbus, Ohio, but don't use my name, and suggest only one talk to him (post that you are) to not make a pest. At one time some retractible main gear was an issue, I don't know the status now, but he's the one to talk to. None standard engines auto or bigger probably are issues.