From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:06:22 -0500 Subject: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. I am installing a Rose Electronic ignition on my Cozy in place of the left MAG. I have come up with a schematic for wiring the EI and the remaining MAG. I would like to see how other builders have done this. My schematic for this is attached to this message. It is a .BMP file that has been condensed with pkzip. After unziping it will display using PAINT and many other graphic display SWs. The features I think this circuit has are as follows: 1. If you turn the master switch off to conserve battery power the EI still fires as long as the battery lasts or you turn the ignition switch off. 2. The Mag check switch works just like a normal Mag check switch does on most airplanes. 3. The relay is only energized during MAG check. It switches the TACH input from the EI to the MAG. 4. The fuse is to protect against a short in the electronic tach. The failure modes are no worse than a normal aircraft ignition switch except that the switch and relay carry current to the EI. All comments are welcome. Especially if I have overlooked something that could spoil my flying day sometime. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. (fwd) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 10:00:29 EST Jack Wilhelmson wrote: > I am installing a Rose Electronic ignition on my Cozy in place of the > left MAG. I have come up with a schematic for wiring the EI and the > remaining MAG. I would like to see how other builders have done this. > My schematic for this is attached to this message. It is a .BMP file > that has been condensed with pkzip. After unziping it will display > using PAINT and many other graphic display SWs. Sneaky, Jack, very sneaky - zip that BMP to make it small enough to get through the size filter :-). While this is a noteworthy subject for discussion, please do not post any more BMP or ZIP files in response to this request. From the COZY BUILDERS MAILING LIST Charter: 14) Do not mail any binary attachments (JPG, GIF, etc.) files or any file over 40 Kb to the mailing list. If you have a picture, program or CAD file you'd like to share, post a notice to the list and then send the file individually to those who request it. You may also request that the administrator post the file on the Unofficial COZY Builder's Web Site for all to peruse. Please respect the size restriction and binary prohibition - this will enhance the utility of the mailing list for everyone. Thanks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 14:25:47 MST I read my email from the Cozy group on a Unix system that really sucks with attachments. My attachments come as a long text bodies that I have to save, edit, then UUDECODE, then unzip, and then ftp to a DOS system, and then launch the program in MSPaint. I think Marc has a similar set up. (After doing all that, it still didn't work with the MSpaint program (ver 4.0) which displayed the error that 'the format of this file is not supported.' I did bounce the message to my cc:mail account which is much better with attachments so I can see that many list participants would not understand why attachments are any big deal. I still had the problem with MSpaint but was able to examine it with another application that understood .bmp files. I applaud Jack's resourcefulness in sneaking this one through. :-) I looked over the schematic and agree that it should do everything that it is supposed to do. However, Jeff Rose sells an electronic tach that can mate up to any combination of mags and EI's and do the same thing with a more conventional switch set up. Part of the difficulty with the mag check is figuring out how to multiplex the appropriate signal into the tach signal input. Jeff Rose's tach does this automatically using some electronics he adds to the tach which connect simultaneously to both P-leads (or EI tach out). You just hook up both P-leads and it will automatically select the one which is firing and will not get confused if both of them are firing together. The approach described in the .bmp file requires 2 switches, a relay, an extra circuit breaker, although I concede that it is probably the simplest way to do it if you want to use electromechanical switches. It may also have a drawback in that it may not be obvious what you need to do in case of an emergency, i.e. having to keep track in one's mind exactly how the switches work. This would be particularly true if you ever sold the plane or needed someone else to fly it. Jack, have you considered using Jeff's electronic tach? Lee Devlin LongEZ 36MX Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:05:54 -0500 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: FPV, Loss of Power on Takeoff Dale: It looks like you got some good responses regarding your INDICATED pressures vs. the current being drawn by your electric heater. I run across this problem daily with customers that have installed our electric= heaters. The problem can be caused by several different reasons, but the= most likely is a voltage drop that appears across a wire that is common t= o both the pressure sender and the heater. This voltage drop is normal and= is directly related to the resistance (size and length) of the wire and t= he current being drawn. The voltage is equal to the current in amps times t= he resistance in ohms. This is also commonly referred to as a "ground loop"= =2E = If the heater is connected directly to the battery one would think that there would be no "loop" as there appears to be no "common" heavy current= carrying wire. Wrong. The current for the heater is not supplied by the= battery but rather by the alternator, assuming the engine is running and the alternator is on line. The alternator case is grounded to the engine= case which has a ground bus that returns this current to the battery common. This return line is also the return for the instruments and will= have a voltage superimposed on it as mentioned above. Adding a separate heavier line from the sender to the instrument will help but not by much.= = I have found the answer is to remove the senders return path from the engine case. The best way to do this is to mount the sender on the firewall or engine mount using an insulated clamp. Addel makes a series = of metal clamps with a rubber inserts that work well. Connect the sender to= the pressure source using a suitable insulated line. Nylon, rubber or so= me other proven safe material. Run a separate ground return from the sender= to the instrument. Be careful about a possible sneak path from other senders. Isolate all of them from the engine case. They can share the same return line as they dont draw much current. A quick check to see if= the problem is being caused by the engine common return is to shut the alternator off (you do have a disconnect, dont you?) and see if the heater/instrument problem goes away. If the heater is connected directly= to the battery then there is no common path when the battery is the sole current supplier. = HTH Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear= at = http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453, FAX: 805-683-8577 INTERNET: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:04:58 -0500 Subject: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Greetings to all I have been trying to find some light weight material to make wire runs out of and have found the ideal material. In Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. They come in four foot and eight foot lengths. They don't bend, but can be shaped to fit in the allocated space. When they are set, they can then be covered with BID as required to keep them anchored. Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:09:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/11/98 08:04:58 you wrote: > >Greetings to all > >I have been trying to find some light weight material to make wire runs out >of and have found the ideal material. > >In Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. They come in four >foot and eight foot lengths. They don't bend, but can be shaped to fit in >the allocated space. When they are set, they can then be covered with BID >as required to keep them anchored. > > Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net > > > > Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. Advantages 1: Nothing more to buy 2: Conforms to mounting surface 3: plenty of room. Use MIG welder wire with small loop on end for fish. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:29:43 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Power Source Reliability Last November, there was a lenthy post from a list-subscriber commenting on paralleled batteries. I didn't have time to do a proper response until now and the resulting document was quite lengthy . . . Individuals with an interest in the subject are invited to check out, "What's all This Battery Paralleling Stuff Anyhow?" at Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Ken Grakauskas" Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:08 -0500 An experienced builder (not in glass) expressed a concern about running wire in formed troughs made of glass. With no real support inside the trench, he thought that the wires would jostle and abrade over time. I had made half round layups over PVC pipe to affect the same trough types that is being discussed. Got me to thinking (worrying?) Ken Grakauskas grakau@wolv.tds.net >Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per >usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, >sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. > >Advantages >1: Nothing more to buy >2: Conforms to mounting surface >3: plenty of room. > >Use MIG welder wire with small loop on end for fish. > > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:25:50 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Lightweight wire runs >>> "Ken Grakauskas" 13/February/1998 12:50am >>> An experienced builder (not in glass) expressed a concern about running wire in formed troughs made of glass. With no real support inside the trench, he thought that the wires would jostle and abrade over time. I had made half round layups over PVC pipe to affect the same trough types that is being discussed. Got me to thinking (worrying?)<<<<<<<<<< Consider: Your concern is valid if the inside (conduit) is rough and there is a lot of vibration. Most insulation used in "modern" wires today are pretty tough but quality control would be a good thing before hauling them in and just leaving them.. Most of the troughs/conduit we shape for this task are done over parcel tape which is very smooth so the inside is smooth, removing the one problem of abrasion... Good thinking anyway, just avoid the main problem -- rough edges. You can also line the inside of the glass trough with felt if you want to go to these lengths before final placement. Moulding over smooth PVC is also a good idea... just keep it smooth. The only draw back here is you need a bigger radius to get the same no. of wires into than a rectangled shaped conduit like in the plans. It's those old area formulae we learnt at school, never thought I'd need them... :-) A rectangle with the length = to dia of circle and it's height = to the radius of the same circle will have an area +/- 1.27 x the area of the half circle. "Give or take a few..." So more wire space! Rego Burger CZ4#139 RSA Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:30:26 -0800 From: Frank Johanson Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I would think that loose wires in the tube , vibrating around would chafe and could cause a short . all wiring i have seen has been secured. food for ? frank johanson cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:17:37 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs In a message dated 98-02-11 19:19:40 EST, cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes: << Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. >> I did basically what Carl Denk suggests above. The difference is that I did the layups on my work bench. The curve is such that it is not a problem to press the wire runs into position. I drilled a few holes for Clecos, buttered the wire runs with flox and pressed them into position. They were held in position with the Clecos while they set up. Either way works. Carl's method is more elegant but I think mine also worked well with no loss of craftsmanship. Dick Finn From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:16:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Frank Johanson writes I think as long as they are not being moved longwise of the wire, and breakouts are protected with grommets or sleeving that won't be a problem. The wires aren't perfectly straight and the tend to fill the whole area, buffering from much movement. I have 550 hours on the plane, and there is no evidence of chaffing. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:26:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Howard Rogers writes Not Good: 1: too heavy 2: How are you going to loosen adel clamps buried under the arm rests, they are structure, and need to be glued in. 3: You will be at times adding or subtracting wires, going to be difficult at best. Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:49:54 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs >In a message dated 98-02-11 19:19:40 EST, cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< > Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with >2 corners rounded per > usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid >of foam and tape, > sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. >> > >I did basically what Carl Denk suggests above. The difference is that I did >the layups on my work bench. The curve is such that it is not a problem to >press the wire runs into position. I drilled a few holes for Clecos, buttered >the wire runs with flox and pressed them into position. They were held in >position with the Clecos while they set up. > >Either way works. Carl's method is more elegant but I think mine also worked >well with no loss of craftsmanship. > >Dick Finn I haven't gotten to this part, yet, but I'm wondering why I couldn't have the best of both worlds. I would like to run my wires in Adel clamps, fully supported in rubber, off the surface. I would then like to cover them with protective covers like those Dick describes above, perhaps held in place with velcro or small screws. I wouldn't even make these covers till just about everything is finished and working. They may take up more space in the corner than running wires conduit-style, but I wouldn't worry about any chafing, whatsoever. Whaddya think? Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 23:56:56 EST Howard Rogers writes: >I haven't gotten to this part, yet, but I'm wondering why I couldn't have >the best of both worlds. I would like to run my wires in Adel clamps, >fully supported in rubber, off the surface. I've started doing essentially this. I installed the plans called out (in the Cozy MKIV) conduits that Carl Denk describes. As I started doing the wiring up front (ahead of the Instrument Panel), I found that the "Adel" clamp worked very well at holding various size wire bundles in place, and were very easy to use. I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. I've got a variety of clamp sizes, and between using that and the black plastic spiral wrap wire protectant cover, I've got an easily disassembleable system. Back of the IP, I run the wires through the standard electrical conduits. I've also run a 5/8" 3003 aluminum tube from the firewall to the I.P. to use as a vacuum line, and have held that in place with the Adel clamps as well. I've also used them to hold various actuator cables in place (parking brake, retractable step) along with the nylaflow brake lines. You can probably guess that I like these clamps a lot. So far, as long as I use at least a 3 BID layup under the #6 sheet metal screw, I haven't been able to strip the hole even after four or five insertions - I'll see how many it takes. Worst comes to worst, though, I can easily drill another small hole 1/8" away from the first one (after all the fitting, etc. is done) and screw the clamp down there. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 14:40:57 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Marc wrote: >So far, as long as I use at least a 3 BID layup under the #6 sheet >metal screw, I haven't been able to strip the hole even after four or >five insertions - I'll see how many it takes. Worst comes to worst, >though, I can easily drill another small hole 1/8" away from the first >one (after all the fitting, etc. is done) and screw the clamp down >there. This falls in the FWW category. I hate the idea of sheet metal screws in the thin glass as called out in the plans. just asking for a problem down the road. Marc's idea of adding some BID has merit. I plan to use 4 ply BID along attach points of armrests and electrical channels wherever they may be removable; including the center consoles. The use Nutserts or similar (with a touch of epoxy) and #6 machine screws to fasten panels down. Seems a bit more durable and neater than sheet metal screws. At least that's the plan..... Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500 Futz'n with elevators (still!) lschuler@cellular.uscc.com --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="RFC822.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RFC822.TXT" Return-Path: Received: from www.uscc.com (www.uscc.com [204.179.101.2]) by gatekeep.uscc.com with ESMTP id XAA20274 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by www.uscc.com with ESMTP id WAA22200 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:58:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from hpwarhw.an.hp.com (hpwarhw.an.hp.com [15.57.193.122]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with SMTP id VAA17554 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA14515; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:57 -0500 Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA14510; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:56 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Message-Id: <9802160456.AA14510@hpwarhw.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Cozy MK-IV Builders) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 23:56:56 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" --simple boundary-- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:57 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Pollock Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Larry Schuler wrote: >I hate the idea of sheet metal screws in the >thin glass as called out in the plans. just asking for a problem down the road. >Marc's idea of adding some BID has merit. >I plan to use 4 ply BID along attach points of armrests and electrical channels >wherever they may be removable; including the center consoles. The use Nutserts >or similar (with a touch of epoxy) and #6 machine screws to fasten panels down. >Seems a bit more durable and neater than sheet metal screws. When we built our Velocity, we did not like the sheet metal screws either. We also embedded #6 threaded inserts into the fuselage sides using flox. That way we could use #6 screws and locknuts and would not have any problem when removing or reinstalling them. Just my two cents worth! Michael.Pollock@mci.com Flying Velocity N173DT Building Cozy MKIV #643 (Starting chapter 6) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:56:28 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. (snip) I hadn't thought of doing the anchoring this way, but I may give it a try. A friend utilized an interesting method that incorporated the standard two-screw nutplate. He used his dremel to rout an oblong hole in the skin, and hog out a small cavity behind it. He then put some RTV on a screw and screwed it into a nutplate. This forms a nice RTV "ball" at the end, preventing the entry of epoxy into the threads. He squirted some flox into the cavity behind the oval hole, inserted the nutplate, and turned it 90 degrees. A little sheetmetal "bridge" under the screwhead held the assembly taught, forcing the nutplate against the inner skin. Clean off the excess flox, and let it cure. It was easy to do multiples in a batch, and easy to add an overlooked one later. This seemed to work very well, and none of them broke loose upon final tightening. Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: Howard Calk Subject: RE: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:41:16 -0500 Here is another method for making embedded nutplates (if you have had enough already ;-)). Drill a small hole in the glass. Bend a wire 90 degrees about a quarter inch or so from the end. Chuck the wire up in a drill or dremel and insert into the hole. Work it up and down to make a little pocket in the foam behind the glass. Fill the pocket with wet flox. When cured, drill and tap for desired screw or drill and use a self tapping screw. Howard Calk Long EZ builder -----Original Message----- From: Howard Rogers [SMTP:hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 1:56 PM To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. (snip) I hadn't thought of doing the anchoring this way, but I may give it a try. A friend utilized an interesting method that incorporated the standard two-screw nutplate. He used his dremel to rout an oblong hole in the skin, and hog out a small cavity behind it. He then put some RTV on a screw and screwed it into a nutplate. This forms a nice RTV "ball" at the end, preventing the entry of epoxy into the threads. He squirted some flox into the cavity behind the oval hole, inserted the nutplate, and turned it 90 degrees. A little sheetmetal "bridge" under the screwhead held the assembly taught, forcing the nutplate against the inner skin. Clean off the excess flox, and let it cure. It was easy to do multiples in a batch, and easy to add an overlooked one later. This seemed to work very well, and none of them broke loose upon final tightening. Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: "Brown, Michael" Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:59:00 -0700 Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. --------------- My method was to install conduits from the engine compartment to the instrument panel during the build process (prior to installation of armrests). In addition, you will need conduits from the back seat to the instrument panel to accommodate the contactor wiring and antenna leads. The conduits are either strapped to adjacent structure with ty-wraps or glassed to the fuselage sides every foot or so with a small BID patch. I used both soft aluminum and polyethylene tubing - my recommendation is to use poly for its light weight and easy wire pulls (very low surface friction). Adhesive pads also work - you can get units which accommodate the standard ty-wrap sizes. This is especially useful for those items which are forgotten until construction and painting is already completed. Mike B Cozy N97PZ michael.brown@alliedsignal.com From: BCGARDNER@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:13:47 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I've enjoyed seeing all the creativity displayed by the builders who have proposed solutions to the lightweight wire run question. One question nags at me, however, and maybe someone can shed some light on this. Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? I'm just starting my Mark IV. Barry Gardner N89BG From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:00:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/17/98 20:13:47 you wrote: > >I've enjoyed seeing all the creativity displayed by the builders who have >proposed solutions to the lightweight wire run question. One question nags at >me, however, and maybe someone can shed some light on this. > >Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit >that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? > >I'm just starting my Mark IV. > >Barry Gardner >N89BG > > Several thoughts: 1: All wire must be teflon isulation, basically eliminating the wire itself. 2: Circuits must be protected with proper current limiting devices, i.e. fuses or circuit breakers, to elimate the source of heat. I'm not going to get into the preferability of fuses or circuit breakers which has been recently been beat to death, but there have been instances of their failure to open the circuit, though somewhat rarely. 3: The master relay and field coil power of the alternator are backup ways to remove the power. 4: Some advocate a fuse very near the alternator to protect the main wire if it would short. I decided that I preferred not the fuse as a keep it simple, and one less thing to fail. I treat this area carefully, and pay close attention to the main wires anytime I am near them. 5: We are fortunate that glass does not conduct electricity, reducing the possiblilty of shorts, though caution is urged near carbon fiber. 6: When dressing wires, support frequently, bundle tightly when possible, provide chafe protection in the form of shrink wrap, spiral wrap, tie-wraps, and grommets. Observe airframes at your local maintenance hanger, and pick the brains of the mechanics. There are several manuals of accepted practice puiblished by the FAA and by Tony Bingalis, buy all of them, and study them! From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:08:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/17/98 17:59:00 you wrote: > > >Marc J. Zeitlin says: >>I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >>inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >>a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. > --------------- > >My method was to install conduits from the engine compartment to the >instrument panel during the build process (prior to installation of >armrests). In addition, you will need conduits from the back seat to >the instrument panel to accommodate the contactor wiring and antenna >leads. The conduits are either strapped to adjacent structure with >ty-wraps or glassed to the fuselage sides every foot or so with a small >BID patch. I used both soft aluminum and polyethylene tubing - my >recommendation is to use poly for its light weight and easy wire pulls >(very low surface friction). > >Adhesive pads also work - you can get units which accommodate the >standard ty-wrap sizes. This is especially useful for those items which >are forgotten until construction and painting is already completed. > >Mike B Cozy N97PZ >michael.brown@alliedsignal.com > > > > I prefer glassing to the structure instead of tie-wraps where inaccessible, i.e. under armrests. The aluminum tubing must be heavy, depending on wall thickness the plastic tubing could be. Remember what Burt said: "If you want to put it in an airplane, throw it up into the air, if it comes down, its too heavy. Certain plastics give off noxious fumes and have a relatively low flame point, urge caution before using. One square inch, not 1" diameter is needed each side, and then I ran the heavy wire outside the conduits. I have rear battery, the ultimate scanner with its 4 EGT and CHT, 2 oil pressure, etc is quite a wire bundle in addition to antennas. Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:24:01 -0800 From: Wayne Lanza Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs RE: wiring runs- It's amazing how much energy can be spent in discussion on something as simple as a tube, so here's my 2 cents... Go to the sporting goods department (anywhere) and buy a couple of tubes that golfers use in their golf bags to protect the clubs when they drop/slide the club into the holes in the bag. They are about a buck a piece, weigh next to nothing, are easiliy joined with foam tape, and can be cut with a pair of scissors. For the purists out there worried about fire/melting, I say buy one tube and use it as a mandrel to layup 2 plies of bid onto. After the bid cures, you can fuss with the mess for a few minutes and pull the pieces apart, then make more tubes for the rest of the run(s). Except for the #10 twisted pair run for powering the front half of my MK3, ALL of my wiring fits nicely in the golf tube (about 1.25" dia.) I also recommend that you drop a COUPLE of pull strings in the conduit and/or run a small ~1/2" thin wall tube in with the bundles. Use the milky white flex tube from the plumbing supply. This tube is good for later-in-life add on's and capilary runs for your manifold pressure or other mechanical engine gauge. Another trick for pulling wires (I used this to pull the nav & strobe wires through my wings) is SUCK a length of string through using your shop vac, the rest is easy... Enough yammering for now, Wayne Lanza From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:30:00 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Bob Gardner wrote: > >Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit >that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? I gave the flourescent tube covers the flame test, and it was difficult to make it burn. I did a similar test with a piece of epoxy on glass and had a similar result. Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net From: PDSTRAND@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:41:21 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I was intrigued by Don's lightweight wire runs, so I went to his house and took a look for myself. The installation is very neat and took about 1 hour. I went to Home Depot and bought two 8 ft light covers. They are made from polycarbonate (lexan) and are 1.675 in od. I weighed them on the lab scale at work and they are .3730 lbs (20 gms) each. I think that they come close to the toss it in the air test. Pete Strand #534 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:08:56 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Paralleled Batteries Article Some weeks ago, I promised to upload an updated version of the dual battery article I did for Sport Aviation a few years ago. It's finished and available at: We've purchased the software to generate the widely accepted .pdf files. They're bigger than the old .html + graphics files but MUCH easier to maintain on our website. Further, they produce faithful printed copies of the work without regard to the idiosyncracies of your browser and screen resolution. Another feature you'll see in this and future postings of our printed materials is permission to republish any article in a not-for-profit educational endeavor. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:15:09 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Starter fiction . . . >> I'm considering putting a small light in my panel that will be connect= ed to >> the output side of the starter relay to show when power is being appli= ed to >> the starter.=20 > >Actually it=92s not necessary. From what I have been told, your amp gau= ge will >go off the charts if the starter remains engaged (you are installing amp= and >volt gauges, right?). When this happens the starter acts as a alternato= r >putting out mega amps.=20 I think starters as a rule all have overrun clutches else they would not survive a stuck solenoid scenario. Consider that if the starter cranks the engine at approx 300 rpm and features an internal gear reduction on the order of 25:1, what happens to the armature when engine RPMs come up to 1000-1500 RPM? 1000 RPM times 25 is 25,000 RPM . . . guaranteed to throw ALL of the wire out of the slots if it doesn't take gear teeth off first. The late model Skytecs with the plastic gears wouldn't take it for a second. The reason the ammeter reads higher than usual is because the alternator's voltage regulator has no way to tell if the extra load on the bus is from LOTS of goodies turned on, VERY depleted battery, starter STILL running or a combination of the three. Hence, the alternator goes to full output and pretty much stays there. The starter is running but only at the speed it would normally run with NO load . . . since the output shaft is essentially disconnected by virtue of the overrunning clutch. Being the horribly inefficient motors they are, a starter with zero mechanical load will still draw 50-100 amps but at no time does the starter become a generator. Even if it DID, you would not be able to read it's contribution to system electrical energy . . . ammeters are wired to read flow out of alternator (Loadmeter) or from bus to battery (minus-0-plus battery ammeter). The battery and starter are in parallel with each other downstream of the ammeter. If the starter were actually supplying power to the bus, the regulator would sense TOO much bus voltage and shut the alternator down. Power flow from starter to bus would make a battery ammeter read DOWNSCALE and an alternator loadmeter read ZERO. A common myth well circulated that's not well undestood. A "Starter Engaged" light is indeed a good idea. Many Beech products had them at least as an option for several years. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Do00o=3D(_)=3Do00o=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:05:20 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Starter overspeed . . . >Bob- Just read your thoughts on starters being engaged. Assuming that >there is power applied to the starter due to some fault in the system, and >assuming the starter is not actually engaged on the flywheel, the starter >would freewheel, right? Not exactly. On all exept the old bendix geared Prestolite pigs the starter pinion gear is pushed out to engage the engine ring gear by the same solenoid actuator that closes the electrical circuit between battery and motor. If the engine is running, the starter is essentially free-wheeling because the overrunning clutch prevents the rapidly spinning pinion shaft from feeding engergy back INTO the slower running starter. Assuming electrical power is applied to the motor but NOT providing torque to the engine (for what ever reason) then the armature indeed climbs to some practical, terminal velocity. With the permanent magnet starters, terminal velocity is quite sedate . . . when BACK EMF in the armature (wires rotating rapidly in a FIXed field) approaches applied voltage (BATTERY) the speed increases no further. For series wound starters like the B&C and the Prestolite, there is no theroetical limit for no-load speed EXCEPT that friction and windage provides a modicum of load that prevents the armature speed from going clear to the moon. None the less, the terminal velocity for these starters is MUCH higher than for the PM motor devices and overspeed damage is much more likely. >In this case, is there likely to be any damage >done to the starter itself? If so, how long would you suppose this >condition could prevail without causing damage? Would the type of starter >be a factor? Sure, and for the reasons I've outlined above. Now . . . someone is CERTAIN to suggest the PM motor starter is a better choice because it's overspeed failure probability is lower. Folks should know that the REASON B&C choose to stay with series field motors is because field flux in a series wound motor goes UP as load on the motor goes up . . . they peform better in heavy torque applications like cranking engines. This means the motor IS LESS EFFICIENT (heating losses in series windings not present in fixed magnets) but efficiency is not an issue for a motor that runs 3-8 seconds per flight cycle. It's ability to get the engine running over the widest envelope of conditions (temperature, battery condition, engine tune-up, etc). The decision NOT to go PM was not a trivial consideration . . . PM motors are cheaper to build. But their inrush currents are higher which increases probability of contactor sticking . . . EVERY design decision is a trade-off. So, the long answer to your short question is, "yes, unloaded starters are stressed pretty hard by overspeeding operation - some starters worse than others." But I would add that the likelyhood of a starter coming to grief for this reason does not figure strongly in choices of design for reasons of performance under normal operating conditions. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:20:53 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: re: grommet cutting >>Do you mean the cut is radial making a slit from the outside edge of the >>grommet to the hole in the grommet on a line thru the center of the hole or >>do you really mean tangent to the hole which would cut a notch out of the >>grommet. > Not radially . . . the bundle or tube being protected can wedge itself into the cut and spread the grommet material. Pressure against the tangental cut tends to close the slice . . . not open it. > > Sorry to question, but describing this in words is difficult and > I want to get this right. > No problem. I've put a sketch up on our website describing the technique at: Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:10:07 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Do it yerself ov protection . . . I've had a number of requests recently for information on crafting one's own crowbar overvoltage protection module. I've just posted an article in .pdf format for those interested in the data. See . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:12:29 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: How to kill your Concord battery with 2 extra volts . . Just got back from our second weekend seminar gig of 1998 in Manassas, VA. Dee and I got home about 1:00 a.m. today and I had 600 pieces of e-mail to sort through! This is a thread formed of comments from several listers on the same topic but possibly from or more than one list . . . . Yep . . . two extra volts is indeed one way to kill 'em dead. >I purchased a new Concord sealed battery (X25) for my RV6A and it >died after one year of use. I think the reason was I had my voltage >regulator set to high. Initially, I adjusted Vans voltage regulator >to about 13.6 volts ( which may have been to high for that >battery ? ), however, over the years time my charging voltage >crept upward until it reached about 14.5 volts. I kept lazily >putting off getting under the panel to readjust it. I noticed >the battery getting weaker every time I went out to the airport, >until it was at 8 volts this week. >What should I set that the voltage charging rate to so I don't >fry my new battery ? 13.2 was NOT too high; 14.5 was not terribly abusive for short flights but probably too high for extended cross country travel (see below). ----------------- >I installed a new sealed liquid battery recently. With my old battery my >system would charge at 14.4 to 14.8 volts. I installed the new battery (the >only change) and now I'm charging from 14.6 to 15.5 volts! Could it be the >combination of a new battery and the cold Wx (it was 30 degrees Sunday). Possibly but I doubt it. Depending on your regulator, it MIGHT be temperature compensated for battery charging requirements. In any case 14.4 to 14.8 was too high for about any choice of battery technology. -------------------------- >> My notes of wisdom collected from the List indicate that RG batteries >> should be charged at 14.4 to 14.8 v. >> > >I don't know where you got your info, but RG batteries should be charged at no >more than 2.35V per cell (6 in your 12V battery = 14.1V). So says the RG tech >experts at Battery Man magazine. A possible source of "elevated charge voltage requirements" for the RG batteries may have started with B&C some years back. The literature from B&C's manufacturer of RG batteries was recommending a higher bus voltage for short cycle ops like 1-4 hours per week in an airplane. If one wanted to use an RG battery in a continuous float mode (like standby power in an uninterruptable power supply or emergency lighting) the classic lead-acid 13.8 volts at room temperature numbers applied. Early recommendations for Concord agreed. About two years after B&C won their STC on the RG battery and several years after Concord came out with their early entries into GA battery sizes (they were building RG battereies for bigger airplanes for some time), Skip Koss of Concord showed me data at OSH demonstrating that their RG products would achieve 100% of recycle recharge in airplane service with the classic 13.8V figure. This is a recommendation from one manufacturer of sealed lead acid batteries that may illustrate the source of confusion . . . "Cycle Applications: Limit initial current to 0.20C (C is the nominal A.H. capacity of the battery). Charge until battery voltage (under charge) reaches 2.45 per cell at 68 degrees F (20 deg.C). Hold at 2.45 volts per cell until current drops to approximately 0.01C ampere. Battery is fully charged under these conditions, and change to float voltage." Interpretation of this paragraph is as follows: Suppose you have a 17 a.h. battery with unknown state of charge (you've not flown in several weeks and you just used it to crank a fussy engine). You can RAPIDLY stuff energy back into this battery by setting the charge voltage at 14.7 volts (2.45 x 6 cells) and holding it there until current going into the battery drops to .17 amps (17 a.h. x .01C) whereupon you REDUCE bus voltage to the appropriate "float" value. "Float of Stand-By Service: Hold battery across constant voltage source of 2.25 to 2.30 volts per cell continuously. When held at this voltage, the battery will seek its own current level and maintain itself in a fully charged condition." This paragraph says that if you want to maintain a battery on a constant voltage bus for periods of time AFTER 100% recharge has been achieved, then the bus voltage should be between 13.5 (2.25 x 6) and 13.8 (2.3 x 6) volts. Of course these values are 68F/20C temperature values. Sooooooo . . . if you do a lot of short flights, 14.7 is good, long flights 13.8 is better. Obviously, the NEXT generation voltage requlators should be getting "smart" to the extent that they not only accomodate a battery for its temperature MODULATES bus voltage appropriately to take care of both the short flight and long flight scenario. Since this product does not yet exist . . . may I recommend that the 14.0-14.2 volts is a good compromise . . . in any case, CONTINUOUS bus voltage operations above this value are not healty for any battery . . . thing is, for wet ones, you can replace lost water . . for sealed batteries, once cooked always cooked. I didn't ask Skip about how much TIME it took to get a Concord battery back to 100% at the "float" voltage level . . . obviously it will be LONGER than a the "cycle" level but lacking means for dynamic control of voltage during each recharge cycle, to err on the side of minimum smoke is good policy . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:19:05 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Powersonic Battery? > Does anyone know about the PowerSonic battery I just bought from A/C Spruce? > In the catalog it states it is a "Sealed Maintenance free, recombined oxygen > cycle battery" (catalog page 324, 26 amp-hour). I took this to mean a > recombinant gas battery (RG battery) as recommended by Bob Knuckolls. > > Now on opening the package, the invoice I get says it is a "Gell Cell > battery" which Knuckolls does not recommend. > > THEN I call them to clarify, and they refer me to Allied Battery here in > Seattle. I was just AT Allied shopping for a battery and they would NOT sell > me the same battery I just bought from ACS. Allied said they could not > guaranty the battery because it was not meant to be charged from an > automotive type regulator. > > Who's right? Is this an RG or Gell Cell? Can it be charged with an > alternator/regulator? Should I just give up and get a lead-acid battery? > I have the same battery, it has worked fine for the first 8 hours, I like to > know if there is a problem with this installation now that my A/C is > aaaaalmost ready to fly. I'd be very surprised if it's a real Gel-Cell . . . If operated not over 14.4 volts it will be fine . . . BTW, some conversations with various Lead-Acid battery manufacturers over the past week has yielded the following: There is a slight difference in recommended charging voltages between batteries made from "virgin lead" versus "recycled lead" which has some calcium in it. Most batteries have recycled lead and like to operate at 13.8 for their 100% recharge voltage (room temp) while a few batteries like the B&C products are new, clean lead and are happier at the 14.4 setting. The consequences of operating a virgin lead battery at "too low" a bus voltage simply means that you don't recharge it as quickly nor does it get "topped off" . . . the exact capacity limit is not known to me yet but I suspect it's still better than 90%. Soooooo, difference in performance will be hard to perceive and service life will be good too. I'll be talking to more folk over the next few weeks and will publish a more complete article on the topic. While on the topic of batteries, there was a lot of discussion a few months back about the evils of paralleling and some suggestions circulated about needing "battery isolators" for proper operation of dual batteries. The piece I did on battery paralleling has been reviewed by two manufacturers and blessed. I'll publish further details in a few weeks. We'll be in California for the next week. I have a critical design review to attend for a few days and I'm taking the family along for some R&R. Back on-line the 29th. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:07:08 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Back on line . . . Dee and I were out of town last week for a combination of business and pleasure in California. Between us, there was about 1,000 pieces of e-mail to sort through. I've pretty well cleared my in-basket but given the way I have to scan incoming messages, I may have missed something. If anyone is aware of an item I might have an interest in but have not yet responded to, please give me a heads up on it. ------- A few weeks ago, I was asked about practical applications of LED indicator lamps on amateur built aircraft. I've preprared a draft article now available at: If anyone has questions or information to add to this topic, I'd be pleased to hear about it. ------- About a year ago, I was planning a periodical publication for assembling little technical tid-bits useful in the construction of airplanes . . . the publication was going to be called Tech-Tips. I decided that I didn't need another publishing effort but the need for this venue is still there. As an alternative, we'll add a page to our website where little mini-articles will be made available to the aviation public. I'm posting this notice for two reasons: (1) if you have something to contribute, we'd be pleased to publish it and (2) let your EAA chapter newsletter editors know about it . . . ANY article downloaded from the aeroelectric.com website may be reprinted as the editor sees fit. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Back on line . . . Mr Nuckolls: I have a problem that maybe of general interest to this group and that you or someone else in the group may know the answer to. I installed a Jeff Rose Ignition on my COZY with one slick mag. I have a relay that switches the tach pickup leads for a Westach electronic tach. The problem is that the tach reads correctly with the Mag but reads two times the correct reading on the Rose ignition. I talked to Jeff and he said that his system and the slick mag both put out two pulses per rev. The Westach has a jumper wire that is cut for one or two pulses, but it seems that this would only reverse the problem. JACK Wilhelmson N711CZ. Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:51:07 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Some compact landing light options . . . In my wandering through various stores I try to be alert to un-conventional opportunities to apply technology from other disiplines to airplanes. I have a couple of items to bring to the attention of my airplane building brothers: There's an automotive headlamp used on 96 Olds Cutlass cars that has a very low vertical profile. It's a halogen lamp totally contained inside a sealed refelector/lens assembly. It also features a real connector on the rear for attaching wires. You can take a peek at one of these lamps at: This is a 4352 high beam headlamp assembly. I believe it's a 55 watt unit but I've not chased down the engineering data sheets on it. I belive this lamp is an excellent candidate for leading edge installation on airplanes. It's rated life should be in excess of 300 hours. While low in watts, it's a modern automotive design suited to illuminating the path in front of 65 mph vehicles, I suspect it's suitable also for landing airplanes at that speed. If there's enough interest in this lamp, I could CAD up a bezel, mouting ring and backplate wiht 4-point adjuster screws for aiming. I've got access to an NC machine shop that would give us a pretty good rate on VERY precisly carved pieces of aluminum. Saw another interesting lamp. I think it's used in accent lighting in stores. They have a variety of tracklites that run on low voltage a.c. The EXH lamp can be seen at This tiny spot light is also 50 watt. It's a halogen lamp and features a built in reflector. It may be useful on smaller airplanes with PM alternators. We've all seen cars on the highway with the new low temperature discharge lamps . . . the color temperature of these lamps is up around 4500K (blue white) and they feature about 3x the light for 2/3 the watts. You can see some info on these lamps at: http://www.sylvania.com/prodinfo/auto/arcspecs.htm Haven't put my hands on one of these yet but given their size and efficiency, they're attractive for aircraft applications too. Dee and I will be attending the RV gathering in Red Wing MN next weekend. Also, we have a weekend seminar coming up in Livermore, CA May 16-17. Come see us at either of these gatherings if you can. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:31:44 -0700 Subject: COZY: Home made strobe lights From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) I promised an update on my little project. I originally intended to make a strobe using circuit in an old magazine article I found. But quickly abandoned that when I latched on to a couple instamatic cameras at a garage sale. After verifying that the camera flash worked ok with the 3 volt batteries, I quickly jumped to applying 12V using car battery. As expected, I smoked the transistor. I then replaced transistor with larger one I had floating around. It now handles 8 volts, recharges in a second or two at that voltage. Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Soon as I solve that problem, I'll tie it in to my controller and see how long these things will continually flash. Lotsa fun, although I am still seeing spots in front of my eyes :-) Incidently, if you consider trying this yourself, whatchout!!! These little puppies are triggered by 3000V. I'd hate to get zapped by that! Anyone care to share the development costs? So far I have $ 2.75 into project. I expect total to hit $5, which will put me over budget :-) -al wick 75% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:11:42 -0500 From: Jason Holifield Subject: COZY: RE Home made strobes ok how? writes >Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Instead of using resistors try using zener diodes that are marked for your desired voltage i.e 4.5V, 9v, 7.5V, etc. As you have noticed resistors do a poor job of regulating voltage, they are more suited to limiting the current to a desired level than to regulating voltage. in its simplist form a zener regulator is just a zener diode that is connected across the + and - of the circuit and the voltage is determined by the selection of the proper voltage diode. you will still have to experiment with using a resistor(s) to protect the diode from overcurrent. Zener diodes and resistors are cheap so... have fun. hope this helps Jason Holifield Serial# 0680 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:19:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes Holifield writes I would think a 3 pin voltage regulator would do nicely. They are made in fixed and variable voltage varieties. If you can't find a fixed one, then use a variable variety, either substitute the adjusting resistor (small) or use an adjustable (potentiometer) resistor to find the right resistance till the desired voltage is determined. They are available from radio shack or Digi-Key, or other supply house. They require a few other components (resistors and capacitors) but the circuit is simple. From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Tue, 12 May 98 10:34:04 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Al Wick wrote: >I promised an update on my little project. I originally intended to make a >strobe using circuit in an old magazine article I found. But quickly >abandoned that when I latched on to a couple instamatic cameras at a >garage sale. After verifying that the camera flash worked ok with the 3 >volt batteries, I quickly jumped to applying 12V using car battery. As >expected, I smoked the transistor. I then replaced transistor with larger >one I had floating around. It now handles 8 volts, recharges in a second >or two at that voltage. Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop >power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Soon >as I solve that problem, I'll tie it in to my controller and see how long >these things will continually flash. Lotsa fun, although I am still seeing >spots in front of my eyes :-) >Incidently, if you consider trying this yourself, whatchout!!! These >little puppies are triggered by 3000V. I'd hate to get zapped by that! >>Anyone care to share the development costs? So far I have $ 2.75 into project. I expect total to hit $5, which will put me over budget :-) Try 35KV off a TV picture tube if you really want to light up your eyeballs. Been there, done that.... Still walking too; a bit crazier than before, and my hair won't stay down; but other than that..... :-) Interesting concept with the camara flash. Might try a Radio Shlock voltage regulator to drop the 12V to 3V if you can find the right one (may need to go with an adjustable version). Then increase the charge current to the capacitor to speed up the flash cycle. Probably require a bigger coil etc. I think Radio Shlock also sells some flash tubes and some hobby-level breadboarding cuircuit books that may have what you need. Just some thoughts.... Larry Schuler lschuler@cellular.uscc.com From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:57:49 -0400 get in touch with electronic rainbow, they make strobe kits, and by changing the wiring when you first wire it it can be run on 3-v, 6-v, or 12-v. the only item i changed is the flash tube, they use a straight tube about .75" long, so i go to rook shack and get a horseshoe style (they are brighter and give a longer flash and last longer) than the straight ones. the kit is 11.95 and includes all parts and circuit board and directions. they are at 317 291 7262 fax 317 291 7269 www.rainbowkits.com norm & monda cozy IV #202 From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:03:22 -0400 instead of a resistor to drop the power or a resistor on the regulator use a zener diode on the v-adj pin of an lm317t regulator. a 6.6 volt zener will give 8 volts output. take your desired output voltage and sub 1.4 from it and thats about the voltage of the zener. no resistors or anything else. norm Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:20:55 -0400 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes At 07:19 AM 5/12/98 -0500, cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: >I would think a 3 pin voltage regulator would do nicely. They are made in fixed >and variable voltage varieties. If you can't find a fixed one, then use a >variable variety, either substitute the adjusting resistor (small) or use an >adjustable (potentiometer) resistor to find the right resistance till the >desired voltage is determined. A series regulator will dissipate the same power as an equivalent resistor, assuming the voltage drop is the same. You will need to heat sink the 3-terminal regulator, or else it will transition to a current limiting mode as it gets above its rated temperature. Make sure the application is within the ratings of the device. Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:37:03 -0700 Subject: COZY: Re:Home Made Strobes From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) Sure appreciate all the suggestions. I ended up using 7805 5V voltage regulator with a heat sink I knabbed off of an old circuit board. Testing it now. Initially it is able to flash each 6 seconds. As time goes on, voltage drops to 1.5 and it takes longer between flashes. I'll try another 7805. If that doesn't help I'll see what happens when I improve heat sink. I also have a more massive 5v regulator I can try. Once again, thanks! -al wick 76% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:32:56 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) On Wed, 13 May 1998 08:48:16 -0400 Paul writes: >>Anyone care to share the development costs? > >I'll belly up to the table with a 20% cost share in exchange for a set of >plans. Where do I send my $1.00. > I'd have to make you a full partner for $1. I think 10 cents would be more appropriate :-). On the serious side though, I did make a cad dwg of the circuit. So if you are interested in building your own using Jim Weir's article in March 90 kitplanes, I would be happy to send anyone cad file. You can then etch your own circiut board, plug in the components and cover your eyes. You can get board etch supplies at Radio shack. It's fun, cheap, and easy. Rainbow kit sounds pretty good too. I didn't know such a thing was available. For my purposes (remotely triggered), just using old instamatic camera flashes looks like it will work. More testing needed. Let's see, at 50 cents per flash device, I could line my entire fuselage with these. Might have to add another alternator, but do you think other traffic would spot me? Just kidding :-) -al wick 76% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. Building the last glass components. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:48:09 -0400 the rainbow kits can be remotely triggered by omiting the trigger circuit and running an insulated wire to your trigger source, mine look like a commit flash, 1 bright flash (both units) and 1 of lesser intensity (both units), then it repeats. norm & monda cozy IV #202 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:36:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Al Wick writes Several issues concern me: 1: FAA has performance specifications for strobes, both intensity and visual angles. 2: Is the issue, other than costs, having strobes that look like they do the job, knowing its unlikely anyone will have the the equipment to prove their are not adequate, or the safety of your own backside, which means the very brightest eye catching flash sequence available. I definately go for my own backside, and wish the cometflash was available 6 years ago. At Sun N Fun Whelan told me they only supply the comet flash units. 3: Radio interference is also difficult with the strobes, after you get done building, even expert artists have problems with interference Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:37:48 -0500 From: Ken Reiter Subject: COZY:Over-voltage Protection/Relay Hello Group, Build as fast and correct as you can - Plane's performance is a :) - nothing like early morning over this great conutry's landscape in a plane that you built. N241KD now has 11 hours and have only minor adjustments on going - thank you Nat! As a LOW time pilot (100 hours total) the plane is GREAT to fly and the landings are getting smoother. They are NOT hard, the speeds are just higher than the 150 that I learned to fly in. Nat you and Burt have given us this REMARKABLE plane to build and I am thankful to you for continuing to support us and give us this ABILITY. It can not be easy but please continue!! Now a question to the group: How many of you flying have and don't have an over-voltage relay/protection and what is the make/model? I have a Zeftronic?? over-voltage relay installed and am have the relay trip without me being able to detect an over-voltage. ( Have had zef check and it tests ok) Thanks, Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:07:05 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: OOPS! mispelled the URL Several folk have asked about software to work our downloadable wirebook drawing packages. One list-server member suggested TurboCAD. I've looked at several suppliers and found a nicely priced version at Software.Net Turbocad 2d/3d V3.0 is available from: for $56.45 as of this date 6-29-98. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:06:42 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Thermocouple Information Cruising the Internet on thermocouples. Interested readers may wish to check out . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Fred I. Mahan" Subject: COZY: Fw: radio interference Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:11:27 -0400 Whoever posted the tidbit about radio interference from the RMI Micro Monitor, they now have a fix available for it. Fred in Florida ---------- > From: Ron Mowrer > To: mahan@digital.net > Subject: Re: radio interference > Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 10:31 AM > > Fred, > > This is not a common complaint, but there have been enough reports that we > have subbmitted and just received back a test unit with mods from an > RFI/EMI consultant. As soon as as parts are received, these mods will be > added to future units and an update kit will be available to current > customers that may have the problem. Mods are relatively simple such as > changing an imput ferrite filter to an inductor, changing a couple of > capacitor values and putting a RFI gasket around a hole in the back of the > case. > > Would you please identify our customer that posted the note so we can > advise him of the fix? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Ron Mowrer > > > /^\ > /\/ \ Rocky Mountain Instrument > / RMI \ http://rkymtn.com > (307) 864-9300 (vox/fax) > -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:14:21 -0500 From: Robert and Carla Kittler Subject: COZY: Whelen lighting Someone, a couple of months ago, posted info regarding purchase of whelen lighting systems directly, at a significant cost saving. Looked for it but naturally can't find it now. Was wondering if anyone recalls and has the info readily available. Thanks in advance. Rob Kittler sn 589 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:35:52 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: #4 Terminal Lugs >>Forgot to mention I solder using a $2 bottle of solder paste, PLEEEEEeeeezzz don't use any form of soldering flux on electrical joints other than the flux that comes already inside electronic grade solder. Clean copper wires and/or tinned terminals solder up VERY nicely with no additional active chemistry. MOST if not all solder enhancers found in hardware stores contain chemistry that is or will become corrosive with time and when soldering large wires with lots of strands . . . the flux WILL get into the stranding beneath your solder joint. There are packaged fluxes for electronic service but you don't find them in hardware stores. I've been soldering things electrical together for over 40 years. Got rid of my first and only can of hardware store solder paste about 38 years ago when I opened up a project that had been in service about two years and found strange, white fuzzy stuff on the joints and under the insulation for the wires. > . . . . .60/40 solder >and a hand held butane torch I got at the hardware for $12 or so. There >are two types of torch--get the cheaper, less hot one that uses butane and >not another hotter welding gas--you don't need it. The solder flows >beautifully into every nook and cranny EVERY time and I remove excess flux >with a spray can of solder joint cleaner. These cleaners are typically designed for electronic service. The weaker ones use some alcohols while the stronger cleaners get really nasty with stuff like methyl-chloride. The artificial resins found in modern electronic solders doesn't need to be cleaned off but you can. I prefer to wipe the parts down with a rag dampened with MEK, Acetone, or lacquer thinner. You need less liquid to wipe and put fewer molecules of trash into the air. > . . . . The result is a very shiny joint indeed. Agreed . . . but the fluxes you find in hardware stores may change the appearance of the joint radically in a few months. > . . . By the way, I do crimp mechanically as well as solder. Okay but not necessary. A properly soldered joint is just as reliable as a properly crimped joint. I've published a technique for soldering large terminals on fat wires at: It's a big file (lots of photos). If anyone has trouble downloading and/or printing it, drop me a fax # and I'll send you a copy. >Gary V wrote: >Soldering? Ay caramba! We don't do no stinking soldering! Crimp them. >And I was a soldering process engineer. Given my druthers, I'd wish every builder to have every certified crimp tool he needs to install every terminal in his project. I've seen articles and witnessed too many attempts to "crimp" terminals with home-made and/or manufactured tools of the wrong type. There's nothing wrong with solder, it just takes some different skills . . . . skills that are not difficult to acquire. I been soldering "fat" terminals using the techniques described in the above article for over 37 years . . . haven't had one come loose or burn off yet . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:29:01 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: #4 Terminal Lugs >Bob: I did electronic repair for about 6 years on computers back when >there were quite a few wires still on the boards. One of the things I >noticed was that if there were any movement of the wires, they ALWAYS broke >at the solder joint, like the heat from soldering had "heat hardened" the >copper, causing it to be less flexible. I also found out about the problem >with solder flux the hard way and threw it away. there are fluxes and then there are FLUXES . . . . see Gary Crane's most illuminating post . . . I've posted a copy of this thread at > . . . . Have you found any >problems with wires breaking next to the solder joint, or could it have >been my technique. Thanks >Art GlaStar #5289 > ANY wire that is crimped or soldered will break off right at the joint if not supported behind the joint. This is a feature built into the pre-insulated, diamond-grip (PIDG) by AMP and equivalent devices from other manufacturers. There's a sort of evil aura built up around soldered joints as being less reliable because of breakage at the joint. It isn't the joint's fault but the lack of insulation support behind the joint. Try crimping an un-insulated terminal to a small gage wire and you'll get the same results. With FAT wires, the stress levels are much lower and as I've written before, never had a FAT guy break off or burn away when installed per the referenced article. I've been diseminating that article in one form or another to hundreds of builders and I've had no reported difficulties with the technique. With small wires, PIDG terminals or solder + heatshrink will produce adequate joints. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 20:47:04 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Stuck starter contactors . . . ><< Beechcraft Barons and Bonanzas have had a 'starter engaged' light on the > panel for several years, and many have been added to older craft. A wire > from the starter relay ouput to a small lamp on the panel is all that is > needed. >> > >The checklist for the C-planes at the school were I teach part-time include a >check after starting that the starter is disengaged by turning off the >alternator side of the master switch and seeing if there is a strong charge >indication (from the starter being driven as a generator). Would that do the >job for us, too? This is a myth that has been given too much fertilizer . . . a stuck starter solenoid does indeed keep the motor spinning . . . however, over-running clutches in virtually all starters are absolutely necessary to prevent the engine from distroying the starter. Recall that cranking RPMs are about 500, during this time, the starter's armature is running at about it's design speed. Now, if you start the engine and throttle up to say 2500 rpm, if the starter were firmly geared to the engine, it would now be running 5x it's design speed . . . guarantee it's windings will come right out of the slots, gears strip, etc, etc,. If your starter contactor does stick -AND- your airplane is fitted with an ammeter, you will see higher than normal "charging" loads on an ammeter because the starter is connected directly to the battery and appears to the alternator as a severely discharged battery - - so of course the ammeter lays over harder. If you turn off the alternator, I'll guarantee you the ammeter will lay back to zero . . . or if its a minus-zero-plus battery ammeter, it will show a discharge if system goodies are on. Even if the starter contactor IS stuck, you'll get the same result. Whoever started this rumor has done his fellow flyers a terrible disservice because the "test" has no way to confirm contactor sticking. Indeed, the test will ALWAYS indicate a-not-stuck contactor. If inquiring minds really want to know, a starter engaged light on the panel is the best way. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:50:05 +1200 From: Tony Krzyzewski Subject: COZY: Re: Europa_Mail: Stuck starter contactors . . . And just for your information.... A starter active light is mandatory on all homebuilts flying in the UK. Tony --------------------------------------------------- Tony Krzyzewski tonyk@kaon.co.nz Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631 Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321 Auckland New Zealand Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/ and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/ ---------------------------------------------------- From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:30:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: COZY: OSH - BOSE >From last year OSH, the last years edition of Bose headsets were on our shopping list, they were very comfortable. This year we hurried over to Bose to see the latest. The pressure on top the head was too concentrated, (others were making similar comments) now headset upgrade from our series I Bose, which we like very much is not on our shopping list. If you dont't need for a while, wait, if you need now, there are used sets available, make sure they have had the RFI upgrade, without can get a light click when near a doppler radar (I think). From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:18:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Stuck starter contactors . . . I'm not sure a stuck starter will not cause damage. With the starter energized the gear will probably try to stay in the energized position, BUT its being turned faster than the starter can drive it. The helix (very course screw thread) will then be driven to a disengaged position, BUT when it get disengaged its no longer being driven toward disengagement, but now the starter is driving it into engagement. A tug of war ensues, with clashing gears. I don't have, but now think a small light, and maybe a buzzer with a delay is appropriate. Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:25:15 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: sticking starter contactors >Had a starter solonoid engage in flight about 20-30 min after takeoff while on >an ILS approach in MVFR/IFR. First indication was the radios went to heck. Contactor sticking is not a spontaneous activity . . . in the situation cited, I'll bet a steak dinner to a donut that the contactor stuck at the time the engine was started and continued until noticed by the pilot when the alternator (40-60 amps) and battery (25 a.h.) lost the tug-of-war with a powered up but free wheeling starter motor (60-100A?) and things went black . . . . A starter engaged light is SOOOoooooo simple to add, why not have one? Alternatively, adequate instrumentation of the electrical system would have revealed (1) bus voltage low because total loads exceeded the output capability of the alternator and/or (2) alternator output -or- battery ammeter pegged against the charg'n real hard stop for the duration of the flight. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:49:30 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >There was an article in kitplanes a few months back about how to build >your own strobes with stuff you can buy at radio shack. It was the issue >with the Lancair on the cover, I can get the date if anyone is >interested. The article raved about how easy they were to see. I've seen many articles over the years on do-it-yourself strobes. Please understand that the maximum light output that can be expected from any strobe, amateur built or otherwise is a function of the energy storage capacitor and the voltage to which it is charged between flashes. The formula is: Energy (joules) = Voltage Squared * Capacitance (farads)/2 If you have a 100 microFarad capacitor charged to 300 volts the potential energy is 4.5 joules. Note that I use the work "potential" . . . the REAL light output is a further function of flash tube efficiency and series resistances in the flash tube current path that throw away some of the energy stored as heat instead of light. Most of the "do-it-yourself" articles I've seen are really puny in the stored energy and light output department. Another issue arrises with the strobe tubes recommended in the articles: They're generally designed for photoflash applications . . . this might be 4 to 40 joule flashes . . . perhaps a few thousand flashes for the lifetime of the camera. Now bang this critter at a full 10+ joules (the smallest of commercial strobes found on most aircraft) at 1 flash per second and you get 3,600 flashes per flight hour. Tests I've run on many off-the-shelf photoflash tubes show the device is down to 50% of original light output in 5-20 hours. If you'd like to match current certified aircraft strobe requirements, it's tougher yet. I'm thinking about doing an article on building your own power supply for off the shelf aircraft tubes and fixtures. You'd save perhaps 25% on the overall cost of the system and spend quite a few hours doing it. I've watched the strobe light market for years with an eye toward competing and I can tell you, it's NOT an attractive market. That's why you'll probably never see a strobe system offered from the 'Connection. At current prices from 'certified' suppliers, I can't justify it. I know they SEEM expensive but try to duplicate the performance for less money with a new design and the catalog prices get pretty attractive. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 18:42:55 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Stuck starter contactors . . . >>In a message dated 98-08-07 04:58:33 EDT, nuckolls@aeroelectric.com writes: >> >> If inquiring minds really want to know, a starter engaged light >> on the panel is the best way. >> >> > >Bob, > >How does one rig up something like this? > Install a 5-amp, inline fuse in a piece of 22AWG wire so that the fuse is 6" or less away from the wire's attachment to the starter motor's main power feed terminal (usually a 5/16" treaded stud . . . sometimes 3/8"). Extend wire into the cabin and attach to any handy lamp fixture fitted with a 12 volt lamp. Helps if this fixture is right in front of pilot. One side of the lamp is fed with the wire from the starter, the other side of the lamp is grounded to airframe or electrical system ground. No press to test needed . . . you should watch and EXPECT the lamp to light during cranking . . . a test of the lamp's functionality. Of course, as the starter switch is released, the lamp should go dark . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 10:19:06 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: >>There was an article in kitplanes a few months back about how to build >>your own strobes with stuff you can buy at radio shack. It was the issue >>with the Lancair on the cover, I can get the date if anyone is >>interested. The article raved about how easy they were to see. >I've seen many articles over the years on do-it-yourself strobes. >Please understand that the maximum light output that can be >expected from any strobe, amateur built or otherwise is a >function of the energy storage capacitor and the voltage to which >it is charged between flashes. The formula is: >Energy (joules) = Voltage Squared * Capacitance (farads)/2 >snip I recall the article as well. If memory serves (no garantees), the writer did NOT use flash tubes and capacitor discharge. Was a seemingly simple method of using 50 Watt Halogen bulb switched on and off via simple 555 timer and, if I remember correctly, a power FET. Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. The bulbs come in a number of 12 volt flavors from low voltage track-lighting to H-3 auto headlight bulbs. Also available in lesser or greater wattage ratings. Sure seemed like a simple solution to the very high cost of flash tubes and capacitor discharge power supplies; hombuilt or store-bought. Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens (candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would meet the FAA requirements for visibility? Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter A. Coffie" Subject: COZY: strobes FWIW strobing any filament bulb will cause its demise at an early age unless a couple of things are done.. (the main problem is thermal shock to the filament) If the bulb is pulsed, you must make sure the "off" voltage is still about 1/3 the "on" voltage ... this prevents the bulb from cooling too much and extends the bulb life. By regulating the "on" voltage to 1/2 a volt below the rated voltage for the bulb, you also extend the bulb life. MOSFETS will handle the power with a good heat sink ( and have thermal run away protection built in ) IMSMC, strobes are rated at approx 400W (very brief / high voltage) Peter A. Coffie Director - Applications and Support Workplace Technologies Corporation 135 Michael Cowpland Drive. KANATA, ONTARIO, K2M 2E9 V (613) 599-5046 F (613) 599-5047 H (613) 832-3115 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:11:38 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:01:18 >To: rv-list@matronics.com >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >In-Reply-To: <9808109027.AA902764935@cellular.uscc.com> > > >>I recall the article as well. If memory serves (no garantees), the writer >>did NOT use flash tubes and capacitor discharge. >> >>Was a seemingly simple method of using 50 Watt Halogen bulb switched on and >>off via simple 555 timer and, if I remember correctly, a power FET. > > This would be a clone of the AeroFlash incandescant fixtures used > on thousands of Cessnas since about 1967. I was at Cessna when the > roating beacon was being replaced with the flashing incandescant > lamp . . . wasn't impressed. The fade-in-fade-out characteristic > of the filament lamp was (IMHO) less attention getting than the > sharp pulse of light you got from the rotating mirror assembly > of then popular 36 watt beacons. Further, the lamp used then > (and still) is 150 watts . . . about 12+ amps!!!! We had to add > a resistor to the system so that when the lamp was off, we were > dumping an equivalent amount of power into the resistor to make > the load on the system more constant . . . pulsing of the panel > lights at night would drive you nuts. > >>Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty >>cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. > > No problem these days. Power FET's with .007 ohms on resistance > are quite common. A 12-amp load makes these devices disipate > only 1 watt! Easily handled with very small heatsink. A feature > of one of our turn-key wiring kits will inlcude solid state relays > for nav, landing, taxi lites and pitot heat . . . no heavy currents > through panel mounted switches. > >>The bulbs come in a number of 12 volt flavors from low voltage >>track-lighting to H-3 auto headlight bulbs. Also available in lesser or >>greater wattage ratings. > >> >>Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens >>(candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would >>meet the FAA requirements for visibility? > > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:46:32 -0400 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: RE: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob Nuckolls wrote: Snip> > Plan on needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from pulsing when >this size lamp is flashed. >Wouldn't it be simpler to use two lights one on the left wing and one on the >right. The Wiring could be configured such that the dummy load for one was >the light of the other i.e. one light is always on. The only voltage >fluctuation, apart from the high frequency transient, would be caused by the >differing hot to cold resistance of the filament. > >Isn't there a commercially available unit used by North American Police cars >that already does this. You see them frequently if you drive 20 MPH above the >speed limit :-). > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Tel (613) 253 2229 (H) Ottawa, (613) 599 3280 ext. 232 Ontario, Cozy MKIV RG #30 Canada. Subaru EG33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Bob . . . > AeroElectric Connection > > //// > (o o) > ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== > < If you continue to do > > < What you've always done > > < You will continue to be > > < What you've always been. > > ================================= > From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 15:32:50 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: strobes Peter A. Coffie wrote: >FWIW strobing any filament bulb will cause its demise at an early age >unless a couple of things are done.. (the main problem is thermal shock >to the filament) >If the bulb is pulsed, you must make sure the "off" voltage is still about >1/3 the "on" voltage ... this prevents the bulb from cooling too much and >extends the bulb life. By regulating the "on" voltage to 1/2 a volt below >the rated voltage for the bulb, you also extend the bulb life. Wouldn't duty cycle play a roll as well? Just thinkin' in print... Larry Schuler Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:12 -0500 From: Mo Brooks Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob; We sell a few thousand strobes every year for Fire Alarm Systems. They can go to 75 Candela at 12V and 110 Candela at 24V. <> .250A. They are about 1-1/8 x 4" and wire up like a normal polarized light bulb. ( No seperate power supply). A seperate module can be added to flash all in unison. 1hz flashrate. Some adaptation will be needed but should be no hill for a stepper. We test 110 Candela by checking whether or not the flash can be seen with closed eyes at 10' during the day. Cost is around $50 Ea. Module about the same. If there's an interest I'll pursue the mounting a little further. Mo Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >>Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens > >>(candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would > >>meet the FAA requirements for visibility? > > > > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. > From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:46:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . I'm not intrested in fooling inspector, I'm interested in being seen in the air, Ez's are hard enough to see, at best. Numerous times Terry Schubert have tried to find each other at 4000' over the Huron River and Lake Erie. The point is easy to find, but the Ez not. Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:50:09 -0400 From: "C. W. Wright" Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . > Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty > cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. > If you switch it on/off with a 20% duty cycle, you'll only deliver 10 watts average power to the bulb. The electrical energy would be: Pj = Voltage * Current * Time_ion/Time_off Bottom line: Stick with the aircraft strobes. > > > T-- > PROFOUND INSIGHTS FROM COMEDIAN STEVEN WRIGHT > I fly way too fast to worry about cholesterol. > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 07:17:18 est From: "Smythe_Donald" Subject: COZY: Re[2]: do it yourself strobes . . . To All, I feel like I might have something to do with the discussion on Strobes and FAR requirements. All of a sudden I'm seeing comments that "FAR 23 doesn't apply". I must admit, I'm still a little confused about the FAA requirements but, we must have something to follow. If the FAR 23 really doesn't apply, then what does? If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows what else. Someone on the list once said that "WE", the Kitfox builder, must strive to outclass the big boys and their certified aircraft. I go through Government inspections all the time. There must be a "Spec" to go by or a deficiency isn't a deficiency. Opinions are not acceptable. How does an FAA rep or DAR inspect an experimental aircraft with no "Spec" to follow? This whole inspection thing is starting to sound like an FAA "political" hoop with no thought of a real "inspection" in mind. Sorry, Soap box time Don Smythe ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:16:59 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >Yes, > ... and old VWs with 6 volt lighting system and DIM headlights are >still legal, but would you want to drive one on a windy, dark road at >night??? I'm just surprised that the standard seems to be "boy, >that's bright!" when observed inside the hangar. These lights are designed >for being seen from miles away, so at least do your eyeball checks from the >other end of the runway. Actually, older aircraft don't need any strobes, >but try spotting them in the traffic pattern at night at any metropolitan >airport. Yeeeaaahhhh BUT. The increase from 100 to 400 CP in light output is not all it's made up to be. Fortunately, the eye and supporting firmware is a very logarithmic sensing device - fortunate for us who use them or they'd be VERY hard to use over the range of bright sunlight to starlight illumination levels. In a base 10 logarithmic scale, the increase from 100 to 400 would result in only a few percent increase in perceived intensity . . . I forget what the average human eye was scaled at but I think it's response curve is steeper than a base 10 curve. Suffice it to say that standing side by side at a couple miles distance, you would be able to pick out the 400 CP device over a 100 CP device. However, the notion that it's 4x more likely to get somebody's attenion is pure wishing. The annals of aviation tragedy are full of cases where airplanes come together simply beause two or more pilots had their heads down. Whether your strobes are 10, 100 or 400 CP, they won't be seen if nobody is looking for them. This is one objection I have to things like moving maps, engine analyzers, etc. Neat devices from a performance/technolgy perspective but they can intrude in dangerous ways upon a pilot's responsability to fly the airplane and avoid hitting things. IMHO, change to strobe rules was but another example of a group of rule makers sitting around the table saying, "okay guys, what shall we do THIS week?" On the face of it, they appear to be doing good things. In reality, airplanes will continue to hit things for reasons that regulation and punishment cannot affect. Heads up, enjoy the scenery, save systems diagnosis and repairs for the hangar, and watch for they guy with the strobes built from an article in a magazine . . . if you're looking for him, you WILL see him. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:49:21 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . At 04:46 PM 8/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob Nuckolls wrote: Snip> >> Plan on needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from pulsing when >>this size lamp is flashed. >Wouldn't it be simpler to use two lights one on the left wing and one on the >>right. The Wiring could be configured such that the dummy load for one was >>the light of the other i.e. one light is always on. The only voltage >>fluctuation, apart from the high frequency transient, would be caused by the >>differing hot to cold resistance of the filament. Tried that . . . it WOULD have been nice. Problem was to control the spheres of visability so that both lights were never visible at the same time. If you could see them both, then from a distance beyond the visual accuity limits for resolving them as a pair of lights, they appeared as a single, always illuminated lamp . . . i.e. flashing stopped. Turned out to be such a hassle that the resitor went in instead. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:10:46 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Re[2]: do it yourself strobes . . . Don,

    re "If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows what else."

    I agree. That kind of thinking is what killed many people when ultra-light airpcraft came into being some years ago.  It may have been legal, but it was not very smart.

    It is my opinion that if one wants his aircraft certified for night flight, it would be wise to install a certified lighting system.  FAR part 91 requires it and we are not exempt from that part when flying an experimental aircraft at night.  Same applies for IFR flight.

    I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented.  My Whelan power source is 18 years old (I used it on a LEZ and now on my MKIV) and it has never missed a flash....I doubt any of us could build a system from scrap parts with such reliability.  The power source was stored for some 8 years and I was very pleased when it worked on 12 volts after a short recharge at 9 volts as per Whelan instructions.  It's a good system.

dd From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 22:51:18 1998 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id NAA00429 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26569 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:44:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from DTC.NET (dtc.net [206.242.217.15]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26564 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:44:21 -0400 Received: from p88.ts1.dtc.net (p88.ts1.dtc.net [205.183.130.88]) by DTC.NET (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07591 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:48:12 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980815103307.43af9ea4@dtc.net> X-Sender: nuckolls@dtc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:33:07 To: "Cozy List" From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . In-Reply-To: <35D588D3.4BF1793B@earthlink.net> References: <9807119028.AA902845123@mailme.snews.spear.navy.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" X-UIDL: 1a4812fd4969df501d980865470949d2 > re "If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then >the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows >what else." This is the attitude that makes the FAA so successful at what they do. As soon as we elect anyone to public office, they're in close proximity to a contageous disease, "The public is illiterate, ignorant, and incapable of making wise choices in their lives. It is up to us (becaue we won a popularity contest) to look out for them lest they hurt themselves." It doesn't wash. Experimental airplanes have no higher accident rates than certified iron. Canada is even allowing certain certified ships to be "de-certified" and become the sole responsability of the owner to maintain and modify as he sees fit. > I agree. That kind of thinking is what killed many people when >ultra-light airpcraft came into being some years ago. It may have been >legal, but it was not very smart. But theres a difference. We're not dealing with 35 mph, kit-kites. We have deep roots in certified aviation. We have an apppreciation for the GOOD things (there are some) that come out of bureaucrating regulation thinking. We read, participate on list servers, observe other people's successes and when in doubt, do what we're familiar with. Amateur built aviation has few things in common with recreational air vehicles and the folk who are attracted to them. > I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's >already been invented. So do a LOT of other folks in aviation . . . that's why certified ships a still flying behind 1960's technology engines in 1950's airframe designs. Independence KS is the jurasic park of aviation, they're down there cloning brand new, 40 year old airplanes. > . . . .My Whelan power source is 18 years old (I used >it on a LEZ and now on my MKIV) and it has never missed a flash....I >doubt any of us could build a system from scrap parts with such >reliability. The power source was stored for some 8 years and I was >very pleased when it worked on 12 volts after a short recharge at 9 >volts as per Whelan instructions. It's a good system. They are indeed . . . but I wouldn't discourage anyone for a minute for looking at alternatives. When the guys at Bell Labs got the first seminconductor device to "amplify" in 1948 there were plenty of folk who voiced the opinion that it would never amount to anything . . . Geesh, if my grandfather had just bought some stock . . . I could be doing all this just for fun instead of trying to make a living at it. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:30:59 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob,

    re "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented."  (my quote)

  "So do a LOT of other folks in aviation . . . that's why certified
  ships a still flying behind 1960's technology engines in 1950's
  airframe designs. Independence KS is the jurasic park of aviation.." (your quote)

    It's easy to get misconstrued posting a message on any forum...
what I meant by "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented" is that rubber tires, radios, gyros, circuit breakers, fuses, and nav strobe lights have been invented.  Sure, one could somehow reinvent these necessary items for an experimental airplane, but what for?

    Willie Messerschmitt invented the leading edge slat on the Bf109 in 1936.  That system is still being used today on many jet aircraft.  Just 'cause it's old technology does not mean it is no good.  North American Aviation did not bother to reinvent the slat in time for the F-86 and Korea, they simply borrowed it from Germany.

    That's what I mean when I say, "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented."

dd  From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 22:51:10 1998 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by strato-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id SAA05462 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA10595 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:02:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from wichita.dtc.net (dtc.net [206.242.217.15]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10590 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:02:06 -0400 Received: from p91.ts1.dtc.net (p91.ts1.dtc.net [205.183.130.91]) by wichita.dtc.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA12861; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:05:56 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980814165704.22ef641a@dtc.net> X-Sender: nuckolls@dtc.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:57:04 To: "RV List" From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Dry Cell Battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980814110927.4117fe86@dtc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" X-UIDL: 50bc90fe55135092a3e8c7cf85517aa9 >Any opinions on the new Odyssey dry cell battery Van's is now carrying? > >Claimed advantages: >7 lbs. lighter than comparable RG25 >8 year design life, 3-8 year service life (2 year factory replacement >warranty) >Long storage life, maintains 50% charge after two years >100% deep cycle capacity > >Also wondering how it fits into Bob N./Aeroelectric design philosophy >(which I intend to base the majority of my electrical system on). Found this battery on the web. I'll invite you all to check out which is the Hawker Energy Products home page. These are the folk that took over the Gates Energy Products line of RG batteries dating back over 20 years. If anyone should have a leg up on this market's leading edge in technology, it should be Hawker. The spec sheets for the Odyssey line are downloadable from . The most noteworthy improvements are deep cycle life of 400-500 cycles. Their earlier Genesis batteries (as are other manufacturers) are rated at 80-100 cycles. Charging recommendations are found at: and I note they are unchanged from the Genesis recommendations of 14.4 - 14.7 volts for "cyclic" or "fast charge" service and 13.6 - 13.8 volts for "floating" or "standby" service. I'm a little unhappy to see them call these "drycell" batteries, they MUST have water in the electrolyte, but like all other RG batteries, it's contained in 80-90% saturated glass mats which, if you open the battery up, appear to be dry. The 7 pound weight savings noted in the orignal post is a bit misleading . . . If you check the data sheet you'll see that there are two batteries in the 13-14 pound range that will deliver a "reserve capacity" of 27-28 minutes. The notes for the data sheet say this is to support a 25A load down to 10.5 volts. Extrapolating this out: 25 x 28 is 700 ampere-minutes divided by 60 yields 11.6 ampere-hours at the 25 amp rate (impressive by the way). The next battery size up is rated at 24 pounds to deliver 22 A.H. at the 25 amp rate. These weight to capacity ratios are right in line with the rest of the industry. If Van's battery is 7 pounds lighter, it has to be that he's offering a 12 AH battery in place of a 22 AH battey . . . a perfectly good thing to do in light of the advanced performance of RG over flooded technologies. B&C has offered batteries in the 15-17 AH range at 15 pounds for several years. The 7-milliohm internal resistance values cited for the 12 AH battery tracks along with the industry pretty well too. I noted also that they speak of a metal jacket on these batteries . . . I wonder if they've figured out a way to do lined steel cases to replace the more expensive injection molded plastic cases. I'll have to dig around and ask about this. All told, nothing really earth shaking here, the King of RG Batteries is holding a lead with what appears to be an improvement in cycle-life and chronological life. Performance in the market place has yet to be gaged. If you were going to bet on anyone's success, you could do worse than backing Hawker. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:50:45 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Odyssey Dry Cell Battery At 09:49 PM 8/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >Bob what would be the "street price" of this battery? >Steve > Didn't find any prices published on the net. I think Van is asking about $160 for it. Not bad IF the battery lives up to its life claims. Problem is, the battery isn't old enough to have a service history so the ratings are based on laboratory testing and analysis. Hawker knows what they're doing so the odds are in their favor. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:57:44 -0700 Subject: COZY: Super-inexpensive strobes From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) I finally chose my strobe package for my Cozy. They cost $3 a pop. Look more attractive than the $300 ones (low profile). I got mine at ol' Radio Shack. They have more than one type, #49-220 is best. Seems they are discontinuing their "personal alarms". Strobe just keeps going and going. Uses (3) 1.25v batteries, but only 1 battery powers the strobe. I'm happy with light intensity (enough to blind me anyway). If I wish, I can wire it to make use of the alarm function when someone touches my plane(Oshkosh special). What a deal. I'll probably hard wire it instead of using battery. Gonna have to get a white cane. All I see are yellow spots:-) -al wick 83% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. Done building components, now installing winglets. Expect completion date 4-30-99. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:00:38 -0400 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: Strobes Bary; It is highly unlikely that the tube is at fault. If it flashes at all it is probably good. However the capacitors that are charged up in a flasher circuit are critical to the total energy and time constant of the flasher circuit. They also do go bad over time. If they have set on a shelf somewhere for a time they can become polarized. If they are bad you might try to resurrect them by running the flasher for a long time. If they don't respond to running, the good news is they are fairly cheap. A couple of dollars. Just replace it and I think you will be ok. If that works, replace it in both units. Cheap insurance. Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear at http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453 E Mail: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:05:18 -0500 From: Kent Ashton Subject: Re: COZY: Alternator Mods. Will Chorley wrote: > Does anyone know: > a) If it is really necessary to remove the regulator from a standard > Nipon Denso type alternator and use an external linear regulator to > avoid switching noise from the standard unit? I used a small Nippodenso alternator off a Mitsubitshi and one of B & C's voltage regulators to get the crowbar overvoltage feature. It shuts off the power to the alternator field in the event of an overvoltage. I think that's the important feature. Not sure about the noise question. I had an alternator shop snip out the original internal voltage regulator and rewire it. > b) If so, what do you remove from under the covers, and what do you > connect to what after you've performed the surgery? Bit hard to describe here, but they installed two little wires where the little internal voltage regulator was located. One wire connected the Field input to the circuit leading to one of the brushes and a second wire which connected the second brush to ground. So it's now a one-wire alternator and the B&C regulator varies the Field current to control output. Don't hold me to that. I'm just a hog looking at a wristwatch when it comes to that stuff. ---Kent A. From: mbeduhn@juno.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:00:46 -0500 Subject: COZY: Audio for Video Camera I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. Thanks Mark Beduhn Cozy IV N494CZ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: "DL Davis" Subject: RE: COZY: Audio for Video Camera Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:24:48 -0400 Nope, the headphone outputs shouldn't be connected directly to the video input. You will get severely distorted audio because the headphone outputs are far too large compared to a microphone input that the camcorder expects. I made a simple interface with about a 50 to 1 voltage divider which worked real well for me. I put some background music in the intercom, and I get everything recorded with the video, including the radio traffic, passenger voices, and background music (Top Gun works great!). This makes the video recordings MUCH more interesting. The voltage divider circuit can be made with something like a 50k and a 1k resistor, connected in series from the headphone output to ground, with the 1k resistor on the ground side. Connect the video input to the the center tap, between resistors, and ground. Make two circuits if you have a stereo intercom and a stereo camcorder. I used some 1/8 watt resistors that were so small that I could just solder them inside the headphone plug on the cable that connects to the intercom... no external boxes or parts. Just a headphone plug on one end and a stereo mini plug on the side that connects to the camcorder. Good luck. Dewey > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com > [mailto:owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com]On Behalf Of mbeduhn@juno.com > Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 6:01 PM > To: canard-aviators@canard.com; cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Audio for Video Camera > > > I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm > not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone > jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. > > Thanks > > Mark Beduhn > Cozy IV N494CZ > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:50:14 -0400 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: Audio for Video Camera At 05:00 PM 9/14/98 -0500, mbeduhn@juno.com wrote: >I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm >not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone >jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. Hi Mark: I made a three-way cable to tap into a standard intercom. I used a 1/4" in-line phone jack (your headphones plug into this), a 1/4" phone plug (plugs into your intercom), and a 1/8" stereo phone plug (to plug into the camera mic input). The 1/4" plug/jack allows me to pick up the headphone signal; it is wired straight through. For the microphone circuit, I make a voltage divider to generate a mic-level signal from the headphone signal. The "hot" (headphone) side of the divider is a 10 kohm resistor. The ground (mic) side is a 33 ohm resistor. Both are 1/8 or 1/4 watt varieties. I have tied the ring and the tip of the mic connector together to convert mono to stereo, but if you have a stereo int