From: "astrong" <astrong@mscomm.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:28:59 -0700

"To assure it can't plug your fuel inlet, make the cone with (5) 1/4"
holes around the perimeter. Thus, if you deliberately place the cone over
inlet, fuel still passes. Yet if you pull cone into cap hole, those 5
holes are below the opening, so it will seal the hole." Al Wick

If you built the tank like the 3 place the fuel inlet has a screen over the
inlet ,Chap. 21 page 1 fig. 1, page 3 fig.7, page 6 sec "H-H".mine has a 3"
stainless strainer with 1/16" holes and epoxied in place, you will not plug
the inlet. The cone is a good idea I will install it. I have been depending
on my check list to check fuel caps.
Thanks Bulent.  Alex


Homepage"http://www.canard.com/trim"

"Once you have tasted flight,
you will walk with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there, 
you will long to be"
Leonardo DaVinci (1452-1519)

                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
           
                                                      












                                                                           
                                                                           











Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:34:35 -0400
From: bil kleb <w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel flap

David Domeier wrote:
> 
> The plan system works.  It has since Burt invented it over 20 years ago.
> ...so my point is, why spend a lot of time and money reinventing a wheel
> that already goes 'round pretty well without squeaks.

burt certainly wouldn't want to hear this kind of talk, because if he had
heeded such reasoning of "it ain't broke, don't fix it", there never would
have been a variviggen, etc.

-- 
bil <mailto:w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:56:25 -0400
From: Bill Theeringer <Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@compuserve.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel tank covers



I hope all canard builders are installing the access openings to their fuel
tanks far enough outboard to miss the prop when they come loose.  I don't
know about others, but the original Long EZ plans weren't. 

Bill T
N29EZ

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:39:58 +0100
From: blecoq <benoit.lecoq@hol.fr>
Subject: Re: COZY: Garage Door




> As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural support in
> both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make either
> both or one of the strakes removable.  One can still maintain the smooth
> clean lines with this method.  I have not yet checked with Nat if this would
> cause any adverse problems and one would have to calculate the strengs of
> the attachment points. (Maybe the same method as used with the wings?)
>

To my understanding, this is a NO NO solution. The strakes are taking over the
torsionnal loads applied by the wing to the whole airplane.
    Consider like I am in cutting the pole at some point.I like the solution of
having a removable pole.
Happy building.
    Benoit LECOQ




Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:41:12 +0000
From: Bulent <atlasyts@idt.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

I have been thinking: How about internal spring loaded flap like the
automobile fill up receptacle ? I am sure this arrangement will greatly
reduce fuel loss if your fuel cap departs.
Bulent

Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:58:39 +0000
From: Bulent <atlasyts@idt.net>
Subject: COZY: Re: Fuel flap

Hi Norm and Al, thanks again for the support. I have been thinking more
about it and I am sure the whole thing can be made of alum. very simple,
light weight  and almost 99.9% tight. The flap will be self aligning
against the bottom of the fill throat.
Still can not see how it can cause any life threatening situation but
preventing some? Some people turn down things for the sole reason that
they come from an automobile, without even taking the time to think
about it. The big sign in our cockpits reads "EXPERIMENTAL" doesn't it?
I am open for discussion with others and of course  nobody is forced to
use it or even think about it.
Regards
Bulent CZ MK-IV

P.S. I just ordered my Matco trpl puck SS brakes and wheels kit. They
are the same used on the Seawind and are very corosion proof. That is
something we need here in S. FL.



Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:34:05 +0000
From: Bulent <atlasyts@idt.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

How about half or 3/4 fuel resistant rubber sphere, so if you have to
pull it out you can squeeze it? In and out in a flash.
Bulent

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:24:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel Tanks

On 01/15/98 17:46:04 you wrote:
>
>Steve Write writes:
>
>>	I think in the long run two separate tanks are more dangerous than one as
>>	accidents from fuel mismanagement are more frequent than accidents from
>>	contaminated gas (check the FAA stats). 
>
>Hear hear.
>
>An adequate high power run up prior to departure should reveal
>contaminated fuel.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------------
>Phillip Johnson
>Ottawa,
>Ontario,
>Canada.
>
>Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
>	(613) 599 3289 ext 441 or 232
>
>Cozy MKIV RG  #30
>Subaru EG33
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------------
>
>
>
>

There have been 2 instances in the last 1 or 2 years where a major oil company and others have 
bought more than a few engines due to contaminated fuel. Yes, may times I have to fill both tanks, 
but if only taking on fuel for a short flight, I will only add fuel to one tank. Unless you run a 
tank dry on takeoff or final, its no big thing, switch tanks, about 30 mph loss of airspeed and 
the engine is running. If you don't have check the valve before those 2 manuevers, you deserve the 
result. 

Someones reference to one wing spar, is not apples, but includes oranges. The spar is built once 
to exacting specifications, and in some countries load tested after. Fueling takes place many time 
under less than idea circumstances:
1: Fuel may be contaminated at any point in the distribution chain, and it doesn't help that other 
fuels have similar colors. And I'm talking of mistakes at refineries, pipelines, tank trucks and 
rail cars that were dirty or partially empty. Tank trucks carry all sorts of adapters to cheat on 
the best of intentions with make hooking up the right tank to the right delivery. While with Ford 
Motor Engine Plant, I had to more than twice clean 20,000 gallon engine oil or gasoline tanks 
after a delivery mistake. These were the same BP Oil trucks that delivered aviation fuel (jet and 
100LL) to most airports in Northern Ohio.

2: Mistakes at FBO's, have you encountered line service persons that are not experienced or paid 
enough to attract competent people.

I don't buy the flapper valve in the tank, it could stick, or more likely not seal tightly. 
Leakage of a 1/2 cup (4 ounces) per minute (which is really just a trickle) is near 2 gallons an 
hour. On a 4 hour flight that could reduce the range 50 or 100 miles, depending on what you want 
to assume. I'll stick with 2 tanks. 


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:36:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Garage Door

On 03/24/98 10:15:09 you wrote:
>
>Jannie Versfeld wrote:
>
>>As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural support in
>>both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make either
>>both or one of the strakes removable.
>
>__DON'T DO THIS__.  The strakes ABSOLUTELY ARE structural members, and
>are critical to the plane working correctly.  You would have to
>completely redesign the structure of the aircraft in order to make them
>removable.
>
>--
>Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com
>
>

When you attach the wings to the strakes with the three 1/2" bolts on each side the ends of the 
wings are like a wet noodle until the strakes are complete. The wings should be attached, and 
blocked firmly in the correct position vertically, check and double check the waterline marks on 
the leading and trailing edges transfered from templates, until they are perfect. Then close in 
the strakes, top and bottom. This makes a straight flying bird!! 


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:29:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

This is a previous mailing that I felt neded to be reissued:

 <Template at end of strake>
Agree, further: Make a template out of 1/8" masonite, the shape 
of the wing leading edge less the thickness of the featherlite 
strakes, hot glue to end of center section spar, to match wing 
(less strake thickness), take wing off. Make a "C" of butt line 
23 template female out of 1/2" plywood, the top to be top of 
longerons, the inside to conform to the outside of the 
featherlite strake, clamp to 1x2's across longerons. Now you can 
slide the strake (featherlite) inside one outside the other, to 
fit to the fuselage, mark the fuselage where the 2 join. After 
fitting to the fuselage cut the outboard end 3 inches long at the 
outboard end, reinstall the wing, and very slowly start nibbling 
the strake end till it fits. When happy, glue in place.

When installing the strake bottom, I used straight wood along the 
forward and aft edges to keep straight, for/aft boards below, 
forward edge propped off floor, aft with 10-32 allthread thru 
wing/spar joint vertically. Was able to tighten slowly and 
evenly, with easy alignment and ensuring flox was not pushed off 
prematurely.



From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:48:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

On 05/05/98 16:56:40 you wrote:
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake 
bulkheads
>and ribs.  I then realised that I may not be using the right stuff for
>this task and phoned Aeropoxy.  After talking with the guys at PTM&W I
>got sent a Fax about Fuel tanks and Aeropoxy.  They DO NOT recommend
>it.  They say (in their fax) that I should use a Polysulfide sealer
>supplied by Morton International.  Anyone use this stuff?  How do you 
do
>the sealing of the top / bottom skin (the last one to seal the tank
>closed)?
>-- 
>Best regards,
>Ian D.S. Douglas                   
>COZY MKIV #0069 (Building strakes)
>
>

I would take the approach that the sealer is imperfect (not talking of 
chemical resistance, but pinholes) and fuel is going to get at the epoxy. The 
bulkheads are not difficult, and material not expensive, do them over. Note 
that regularly we hear of someone with fuel leaks, even a picture of a plane 
hanging nose down to get epoxy (sealer) to flow to the correct spot.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:18:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

On 05/06/98 8:52:54 you wrote:
>
>Ian D.S. Douglas writes;
>
>>I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake bulkheads
>>and ribs......  They DO NOT recommend it....
>
>While Carl D.'s suggestion of making the bulkheads over with new foam,
>glass, and a different epoxy (EZ10/84 or some other known fuel resistant
>one) is perfectly reasonable, you might also be able to merely sand the
>bulkheads thoroughly and apply a peel-ply'ed thick layer of EZ10/84. 
>This will provide the fuel resistance along with ensuring (due to the
>peel-ply overlay) that you've got complete coverage.  This would save
>time and money without adding a substantial amount of weight.
>
>--
>Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com
>
>

I would rather have the piece of mind, when approaching Gunnison, Colorado, 
than wondering if it was GOOD. There are some areas that are relatively easy 
to fix later, this one borders on scrapping the airframe. Though my bulkheads 
came from featherlite, I think 3 easy evenings would make new ones with $30 
material.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:55:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

On 05/06/98 22:15:43 you wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>> 
>> I called Nat on this about three months ago and he said that this is fine to use.  I too have
>> already made the rips and glassed them but haven't mounted them yet.  So what's the real story
>> here?  I just bought a few gallons to epoxy to build the strakes.  if I switch do I need a
>> different pump?
>> 
>> ...Marty Kansky 
>> Plans 321
>
>It would appear that it is more of a CYA thing.  Aeropoxy have said (not
>in writing) that their epoxy will stand up to fuel just as good as
>anyone elses.  I have one of my scratch cups (left over) filled with
>fuel, I'll check it in a week or two and see if it is getting soft,
>rubbery or cracking etc...
>-- 
>Best regards,
>Ian D.S. Douglas                   
>MK0069
>
>

You may call it CYA, but if someone won't put it in writing, or money where 
there mouth is, they just as well not say it in my book!

I don't think a few weeks is going to tell the full story, think in terms of 
years!

This reminds me of 15 years ago I built an industrial battery charging area 
for Ford Motor Co. I was being pressured to use epoxy for the protective 
coating on concrete. The epoxy was reported in printed literature to be 
resistive to battery acid, BUT not for higher concentrations of the acid. I 
insisted on I think it was polyester which was reported adequate for high 
concentrations of acid. It performed excellent with many years of service, 
where the epoxy was always troublesome. The reason was acid gets spilled, not 
cleaned up instantly, the water evaporates off leaving higher concentrations 
of acid.

The lesson is don't be so cheap! Do it right and don't worry.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:27:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

John Eplin writes <support wing when building strakes>
Yes support the wing, if at all possible both at the same time. Use one thin washer at each bolt! 
Level the fuselage, both fore/aft and sideways. Then set the wings to the correct location 
vertically. Refer to the plan view of the wing that has the waterline (vertical) dimensions of the 
trailing and leading edges. Use templates to find the waterline location on the leading edge (you 
will probably have to make concave (female) templates). I used a waterlevel, but if you have access 
to an engineers (optical) level that would be better. All supports should be heavy enough to 
preclude any movement. I spent several evenings leveling, a small adjustment at one place results 
many times in movement somewhere else, but its worth it this is what makes the plan fly right.

Building the strakes will firm up all movement, ignore with reason trying to find the no load point 
of the spar, its a loose goose at this point.

See archives for my dissertation on building strakes, if you can't get it, I'll attach it. There are 
many tips to make the job easier and better.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:14:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

Douglas writes <Suspend wing from eyes in roof>
As a structural engineer, I can say that roof structures can and will deflect (move) vertically due 
to wind, snow, and other loads by amounts greater than what I would consider acceptable tolerance 
for wing vertical location.

The allowable deflection for a plastered ceiling is Span/360, which equals 0.83" for 25 feet, or for 
no plaster Span/240 = 1.25". This is for any material (concrete, wood beams, trusses, steel).

Support firmly off the floor!

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:08:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Skins

The topside extra ply is only for local load distibution, to prevent crushing 
the foam underneath, an area inches round. This would preferably be BID to help 
the load distribute in all directions.

 The orientation of glass that would be preferred would be on the underside to 
take tension load of bending. I am not aware that this an issue.

Small indentations say 2 inches diameter x less than 1/16" deep are the result 
of knees on the strake top.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:19:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: COZY: Fuel gauge illumination

I have a mid sized red LED, pointing down on each of Vance's gauges. It is just 
the right amount of light.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:12:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: RE: Fuel quantity gauge

Vances, and all other gauges I have seen, are not accurate at full. Mount 
Vance's so you can see near empty.

When the tank is full, you remember looking at it as part of your preflight. You 
need to be able to gauge very near empty, to use as much fuel as possible.

Remember that with the back seat full of luggage, you can't see Vance's gauges, 
I recommend electric gauges. I have the Skysports. The Cosy turtleback overlaps 
the strakes, giving a nice inside mounting with a straight probe.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 19:52:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge

Jean writes  <Fuel gauge on control panel>
Sounds like many places to leak.
Yes, its at the correct W.L. almost with the fuselage level. How many times is 
the fuselage going to be level in flight, and how do you know in flight that it 
is level? The fuselage could easily be off level in that distance to create an 
error of 2 inches. I have when running a tank low watched for less than a half 
inch before switching.

Electronic or a small mirror in the side pocket with Vance's gauges is the way 
to go.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:18:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant

Have only a gasket, no sealant, no leaks 600 hrs, 4.5 year.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:36:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

Geo.Graham writes <float arm fuel gage> What float arm??, go capacitive.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:39:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Ch 4 - Connecting foam boards for bulkheads

hrogers writes <5 minute epoxy at fuel tanks>

I'm not sure I agree, I don't know the effect of fuel on the 5 minute. In this area you need all the 
help you can get to prevent leaks. The fuel can and has for some, found the hardest places to repair 
or even find to leak. Remember the photo in the last CSA newsletter of a LONGEZ hanging nose down 
from the hanger roof to repair a leak.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:34:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

Hrogers writes<fuel tank vents> 

My set up has been written in the CSA newsletters: 2 vents each side, one located in the tank at 
the normal centered location, the other located inboard, aft, the high point when setting on the 
nose. All 4 (2 tanks x 2 vents) go high on the forward side of the firewall, then one from each 
tank makes a 180 degree turn to the same side from origination, the crosses to the opposite side. 
They then go along the aft face of the spar, under the inboard wong bolt, between the wing/spar, 
turns down outboard of the cowling, project about 3/4" below the spar/wing cut at a 45 degree open 
forward.

This solves the upside down and nose down venting. Also by each tank having one vent each side, 
its not likely a wasp would build nests on both sides at the same time.

Re: Header tank: If you forget to change tanks and run one dry, and that is not an unusual 
procedure, as long as you aren't on final or just taken off (checklist!!!) that not a difficult 
situation. If there is a problem with one tank (missing cap or bad fuel) with header, you have NO 
alternative, with the 2 tanks you have  a possible out. 

KISS (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID): The system with all kinds of switches, u-joints, etc. is an accident 
waiting to happen. Single tanks went out of style years ago, I think the last plane I flew with 
one was a 1946 J-3 Cub. Even the PA-18 super cub has 2 tanks. The simple J-3 float and wire gage 
sometimes would get stuck. 

The complement to a homebuilder is "I'll fly in that", but I can assure you I will not fly in a 
COSY with a header tank.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 06:47:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

Paul Comte writes<Oversize Ego>
NOT! Brainstorming in the name of SAFETY! Get modern, brainstorming, throwing 
ideas onto the table for discussion, then discarding is a very excepted 
practice. The opposite is a dictator for a boss.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:56:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel flap

On 06/22/98 21:23:25 you wrote:
>
>"[L. Wayne Hicks]  Forget the flap.  What you need is a check valve. 
> Nothing more than a small diameter, lightweight metal sphere encaged in 
>the bottom of the fuel throat.  If you lose the cap, the suction pulls
>the 
>ball up against the throat.  Voila. "
>
>Boy, someone will whip you for that suggestion. I already got it from a
>known "Guru" :) 
>Bulent
>
>

If I understand this correct: Immediately Below where the fuel cap (at least 2" diameter) is, there 
is to be a small opening with a sphere, that acts as a check valve. What kind of fuel flow when 
filling the tank from a 1" diameter nozzle is expected when taking on 20 gallons of fuel? I think 
many fueling setups will go at least 10 gallons per minute, and maybe as much as 15 or 20. Or is 
there another way to fill the tank? And I'm being generous when saying only 20 gallons, I find 
frequently I'll go close to 25 gallons in one tank.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:07:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: COZY---Stagger EZ fuel system

Steve Wright writes<one big tank>

I would much prefer the 10 feet or so of aluminum tubing as opposed to a 2" square composite tunnel. 
Who knows in severe turbulence what seam might decide to give a little bit creating a gusher in the 
passenger compartment. The aluminum tubing will take a lot of punishment, and then most likely will 
show some seepage first. i.e. The most likely failure would be a flare cracking, with warning.

On the way home from Butler, a week ago: At 9000' IFR at the base of a cloud with moderate rain, I 
was using full stick movement (the navaid autopilot didn't come near to being fast enough) rapidly 
to keep heading and altitude. Was able to maintain both, so I could only call it moderate, but 
charts were bouncing 6" off my lap. This lasted for 10 minutes and went back to smooth air as quick 
as it started. If it had been a spam can, with sluggish roll rate, it surely whould have been Severe 
turbulence and probably upside down.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:54:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

I understand the if the cap comes off, it doesn't pull tight, but is lazy. 


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:15:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

Al Wick writes <lazy fuel cap>
As recent as 6 years ago there was little selection in fuel caps that were nicely flush. Today, I 
would use the ones that have numerous flat metal spokes that engage slots, possibly with the key 
lock. I don't at this time consider locks necessary on a airplane, but I have one on my Ford Bronco 
tank.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:07:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

Al Wick writes<grounded switches>
If one uses a low impedence (resistance) voltmeter across the switch 
terminals, where one is grounded, and the other must go to a current (voltage) 
source to be able to function, the voltmeter will read very near full voltage. 
If for some reason the hot side wire gets shorted to a real hot (fused or 
breakered for a high load) a very large spark and heat source will be there. 
It takes a very low current to set off a fuel air mixture, look at some of 
those battery powered torch and grill ignitors.

I concur fully - no switch near the fuel. Just use the check list, mine has 
try to turn the cap tangential.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:33:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

Al Wick writes<14ma>
True IF, the chip or associated wiring doesn't develope a short. The only way I know to ensure no 
spark, would be all wiring away from anything hot (anything over next to zero volts) and power with 
a power supply so small that there can't be a spark, say a small watch battery, and certainly not 
connected to the bird power. If I am current most chips use 5 volts, and some get down to 3 volts.
But somewhere these wires have to go to a lamp that is visible to the pilot, and unless fiberoptics 
are used that will put them near other wires.


From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:34:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

Everyone seems infatuated with fuel caps, I have 2 micro switches and 2 lights 
for the gear warning,top that.


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:57:47 -0400
From: David Domeier <david010@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel flap

Bulent,

    re "I am open for discussion with others and of course  nobody is
forced to
use it or even think about it."

    Just my 2 cents worth on this subject....

    The plan system works.  It has since Burt invented it over 20 years
ago.

    I know of at least 3 accidents caused by guys changing the system,
so my point is, why spend a lot of time and money reinventing a wheel
that already goes 'round pretty well without squeaks.

    This talk about gettingconfused about where the fuel selector is or
forgetting to properly position it is nonsense.  If a guy is smart
enough to select the Cozy as his choice of airplanes and then build it,
he surely has the intelligence to manage this simple fuel system.  I'm
absolutely certain you could handle it.

dd




From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:54:29 -0500 


I mentioned this before, over a year ago I think.  I visited a local shop
here that makes tanks, pipes, valves, fittings etc for the chemical
industry.  The owners are very friendly and talked at length of there
products.  It seems the resin they use for the worst case situations they
get into as for as chemical handling is Vinylester.  Much of there product
is polyester as it is easy, cheap and fast. However they suggested that
vinylester is more resistant to chemical action than even epoxy.  I know
that vinylester is used by some of the kit manufactures, I think
Stoddard-Hamilton uses it, I don't know if it is there only resin or where
they use it but was led to believe they use a lot of it.

If it is not asking too much, I would like to hear Nat's comments on this
system.

I am ready to start the strakes, so this discussion is very timely.  I was
planning to order epoxy for the strakes, have been using Aeropoxy for the
rest of the process since the problems with 2427 which caused it to become
unavailable.

John Epplin   Mk4  #467

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: COZY: Strakes
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:57:15 -0500 

I have installed a wing in order to build the strake to match up with
everything first time.  In leveling the fuselage with the wing attached, I
find that the center spar will flex a bit, mostly fore & aft.  Does anyone
have any suggestions about how to support the wing?  I have it attached at
the spar and a rigid stand out beyond the aileron with an adjustable pad to
set it on.  I adjusted the pad such that I estimate there is no bending load
on the spar.  The other alternative is to let the wing support itself, as it
will when everything is finished.  Has anyone tried either method?

John epplin     Mk4   #467

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:55:45 -0500 

I am in the process of building the strakes.  The fuel window has some good
features, it will always work, cannot get any simpler etc.  However it is
hard to see, somewhat inconvenient especially in the dark.  I would like to
install some sort of remote reading system, have been looking at the
capacitance senders offered by Wicks.  Several questions:
	Has anyone installed these in the Cozy strakes?
	Is there a reason not to use such a system?
	Is there a better systems available?
	Can the sender be installed through the fuselage side wall, using
the bendable unit? This should solve the wiring problem.

Thanks for any help.

John epplin    Mk4  #467


From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:52:15 -0500


	Thanks for all the info.  I do disagree with trying to put a sight
gage at the panel, too many leak possibilities as well as the attitude is
going to be somewhat variable, altitude, weight, power setting etc all
affect this.  Calibration would be somewhat involved.  I like the Vance
Atkinson idea but it still is in the back seat, even though it is a big
improvement.  
	My approach has boiled down to ordering the capacitor sensors and a
dual gauge.  I intend to install the sensors through the forward bulkhead
rather than from the top.  It looks like there is hardly enough room on top.
I may be wrong, I only have a few photos taken of various Cozy A/C to go by
and they were not really taken with this problem in mind.  I realize there
is a possible leak path into the cabin from this mounting but this should
not be an insurmountable problem.  I will use a flat plate to lay up the
glass on to make sure I have a good surface to seal against.  This approach
also will allow the probes to be removed in case of problems.  I have never
worked on capacitor systems in gasoline, but have some years of experience
with these in Jet A.  They can and do become contaminated in jet fuel, am
not sure but believe gasoline would be less of a problem as it does not hold
water.
	This brings up another detail,  It seems to me that there are a
couple of small cavities that will hold water formed by the intersection of
the R33 rib and the forward bulkhead and the center baffle.  Should one try
to leave a small hole at these points?  I would assume a tube of some sort
should be run through it or maybe just bevel the corners of the baffle a
bit, at least something to seal the foam.

	Thanks again for everyone's input.

	John Epplin   Mk4   #467,  making fuel tanks! 
	  


From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:44:10 -0500



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Paul Stowitts [SMTP:CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 16, 1998 12:57 AM
> To:	Cozy Group
> Subject:	COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
> 
> I, too, am installing the capacitance fuel sensors.  I located them on the
> aft wall of the strake storage area.  I am presently pressure checking the
> fuel tanks and I realized that the sensors need to be mounted with
> sealant.
>  Does anyone have a particular sealant that would fit the bill here?
> 
	[Epplin John A]  
	Paul:

	I am doing the same thing.  There is a sealant called "FUELUBE"
available from Wicks and others that is made for this purpose.  

	A couple of questions:  What length of sensor did you use?  I used
the 12 in with supposedly 3 in. bendable.  The bendable section was at most
2.5 in.  which makes it difficult to bend the probe up to the top of the
tank then back down again.  I used a tubing bender with less than the 1 in.
radius that they say is the minimum and ended up about 1 in from the top of
the tank, even with the bends as close to each other as possible.  If I had
it to do over again, I think I would get the 24 in. probes and cut them down
to near minimum recommended length.  

	I trimmed the square mounting plate to round, about the size of the
sensor body.  Made another plate just slightly larger with a radius on one
side from a piece of .090 scrap that I used to pressure the lay-up till it
cured.  This left me good flat surfaces on both sided to seal to.   I added
one extra BID to the outside 1 in over the depression size, a total of 3
layers at the mounting area.  Have not yet finished to the point of pressure
check yet.

	John epplin   Mk4  #467 

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:44:45 -0500

An additional observation here.  I thought I had completed the mounting of
the first probe last evening.  Then reality struck again.  There is a leak
path through the bolt threads on out under the bolt heads.
There are probably several solutions to this, the simple one being using
lock-o-seals under the bolt head.  Another solution would be some sort of
dome over each bolt on the tank side.  I am thinking of making a ring of PVC
foam to fit the bolt circle about 1/4 in thick, placing this inside the tank
on the bolt circle and glassing over it.  The bolts would smash the foam out
of the way when inserted, just make sure they do not go in deep enough to
touch the glass.

John Epplin    Mk4  #467


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Paul Stowitts [SMTP:CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 16, 1998 12:57 AM
> To:	Cozy Group
> Subject:	COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
> 
> I, too, am installing the capacitance fuel sensors.  I located them on the
> aft wall of the strake storage area.  I am presently pressure checking the
> fuel tanks and I realized that the sensors need to be mounted with
> sealant.
>  Does anyone have a particular sealant that would fit the bill here?
> 
> 

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:45:27 -0700
From: Eric Westland <ewestland@altavista.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel Tank Testing

Paul,

I did not do the altimeter, but I tested mine with a manometer with about 18"
of water.  I found that a small outside temperature change and/or barometric
change made for huge swings in the water column.  I ended up checking them
several times a day, recording the info and after three or four days, calling
it good.  I'm convinced there is no huge leak, but later this summer when I
fill them with avgas for the first time, I'll find out if I have any tiny
leaks.



From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043@utech.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: fuel design
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:02:57 -0700

Denver's plane had the valve by his left shoulder but that didn't kill him.
He didn't put gas in his plane when asked if he wanted fuel.  When the plane
sputtered he was trying to change tanks (both empty) and didn't fly the
plane.   I'm being taught to fly first then attempt a fix.   He should have
started to look for a place to land first.  Also getting to know his plane
better before he started to fly it would have help him.

Lessons:
1.  Build it to plans.
2.  Know the plane you are going to risk your life in.
3.  Always check fuel by looking in tank and then the gages.
4.  Get some time in the type plane you are going to fly.
5.  Know Jesus.  Life is short.


From: "Fred I. Mahan" <mahan@digital.net>
Subject: Re: COZY:Water collection in strakes
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:46:42 -0500

On my Long-EZ I filled with micro all places that looked like they'd trap
water when the nose was down.  Then, before putting on the top of the
strake, I poured water into the strake to make sure all of it drained to
the quick drain at the front of the strake.  I also had to raise the lowest
point of the strake (nose down) in order to make sure all water drained to
it and out the quick drain.

Fred in Florida 
Long-EZ N86LE
Defiant project

----------
> From: Paul Stowitts <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: Cozy Group <cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
> Subject: COZY: Fw: Water collection in strakes
> Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 11:53 AM
> 
> I sent this to Nat but have not received a reply yet.  Does anyone else
> have any comments?  Thanks.
> 
> ----------
> > From: Paul Stowitts <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
> > To: natp@cozyaircraft.com
> > Subject: Water collection in strakes
> > Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:35 PM
> > 
> > Nat,  I was asked a question the other day that I could not answer.  In
> the
> > strake, there are two "pockets" where water could collect while nose
> down. 
> > These are located at the point where BAB, B33, DB & R33 meet.  Since
the
> > bottom openings on the baffles are located 2" in from the ends of the
> > baffles, the intersections of BAB/B33 and B33/DB could potentially keep
> > water from reaching the drain.  Is this a potential problem?  Thanks.
> > 
> > Paul Stowitts
> > Cozy Mark IV #200

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:49:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "George A. Graham" <ca266@freenet.buffalo.edu>
Subject: COZY: Yet another fuel design

I would like to pass my idea out for discussion, as it has not flown yet.

I really like the simplicity of the Velocity fuel system,  where both
strakes gravity drain into a common sump.  But they have the same strake
fuel indicators (glass tube or capacitance senders).

What I'm trying, is I mounted the common sump beside the copilot strake,
the sump is deep from the floor to the longeron and about eight inches
square.  It has a sight port (just fiberglass) as well as a float type
sending unit which is connected to a fuel guage on the panel.

My plan is to determine the actual fuel level during preflight, by
sticking a clear tube in through the fuel caps. That level should be
the same in the sump (if it is level).  The panel gauge will report the
sump level, which may be meaningless, except when it reads at or near
empty.

Since the float arm is adjustable, in time it may reflect what is in
the strakes.

Any thoughts ?

George Graham
ca266@freenet.buffalo.edu
(716) 874-3277
Modified Eracer - Mazda Powered


From: Guy TERREN <guy.terren@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: RE: COZY: Yet another fuel design
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:02:26 +0100

I

-----Message d'origine-----
De:	Rego Burger [SMTP:burgerr@telkom.co.za]
Date:	vendredi 19 juin 1998 07:15
=C0:	cozy_builders@canard.com
Objet:	COZY: Yet another fuel design

Risks should be calculated and then be divided by 2 if you are now happy
with it then try it.
ie. weigh up the chances of a switch error vs. continuous feed.
Then the risk of a cap coming off.
I feel if you change to a single sump... add a bolt on device or cap
cover system to ensure your caps CAN NEVER come off, only then MAYBE
have you made an improvement.

=20
[TERREN]  I can't understand why every one oppose one sump against a sele=
ctor switch=20
  I will certainly  use one sump with a selector switching the tanks, bef=
ore the sump=20
I think all the problems should be solved, part of the fact that the fuel=
 in the sump can't be oFF . =20



Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:18:57 -0800
From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy: Installing capacitance fuel senders

>I am interested in obtaining any advice on installing capacitance type fuel
>senders.   I purchased the Westach kit and am just starting on the strakes.
> Has anyone used these?  I would appreciate any advice / suggestions on
>installing them.
>
>Thanks
>
>Marty Kansky (N321CZ)

Marty, I did this on my Long.  I built up a PVC "mound" on the underside of
the strake top.  I installed a 1/8 thick aluminum plate with the hole
pattern drilled and tapped into it, to fit the hockey-puck sized senders.
The whole thing was set up, so that the top of the senders were just below
flush with the outer skin.  I lapped glass over the metal plate, and onto
the inner strake skin.  I plan to cover them with a round, sheet-metal
cover that will fair in with the outside of the strake, and will be
removable with screws, so that the gasket can be replaced, when it finally
goes.  I led the wires out through a soda straw, imbedded in the skin, but
it turns out that it was a little under-sized on the diameter, and I may
have to rework this part a bit, or splice on thinner wires.  All in all, it
wasn't too difficult, or time consuming.  Haven't flown yet, so I can't
speak about how well they work, though I have heard nothing but favorable
comments about them from others.

                        --Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148

--Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:13:21 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

>Ian D.S. Douglas writes;
>
>>I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake bulkheads
>>and ribs......  They DO NOT recommend it....
>
>While Carl D.'s suggestion of making the bulkheads over with new foam,
>glass, and a different epoxy (EZ10/84 or some other known fuel resistant
>one) is perfectly reasonable, you might also be able to merely sand the
>bulkheads thoroughly and apply a peel-ply'ed thick layer of EZ10/84.
>This will provide the fuel resistance along with ensuring (due to the
>peel-ply overlay) that you've got complete coverage.  This would save
>time and money without adding a substantial amount of weight.
>
>--
>Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

I would agree with Marc's suggestion, with one change.  It really doesn't
matter if fuel gets to the foam in the internal baffles, as the PVC is
fuel-proof anyway.  Why not perform Marc's suggested fix on all but the
parts that will actually hold fuel in the tanks (inboard and outboard
bulkheads, etc.).  Build those again, from scratch, with the right stuff.
You'll sleep better.

--Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 07:58:25 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

>let the foam soak up fuel @6#/gal.?  This is dead weight/unusable
>fuel.

Mike,
        I don't have a chunk of pvc foam handy to check this, but I'm
pretty sure that it will not soak up fuel, because it is closed-cell.  I
bought my strake kits from Featherlight, and they don't even treat the
edges of their baffles.  I don't think that would be the case if the foam
would absorb fuel.

--Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu


Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:20:55 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

>I'll assume that you are most likely correct about absorbtion.  For just
>a little effort I route 1/16-inch or so around the baffles and fill with
>wet micro.  Even if it contributes nothing, it looks neat.  No one will
>see it but it's one more item I'll never have to be concerned about.


I debated doing the same thing.  I worried slightly about micro cracking
and crumbling out with time, vibration, flexing, and fuel.  I honestly
don't know if this could occur or not (probably not).  I finally ended up
just leaving the foam edges bare, with a bit of epoxy lightly brushed on
during installation, to prevent powdery foam bits from falling off.  I
doubt if either of us will ever have trouble with them.


--Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:35:19 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

>I have installed a wing in order to build the strake to match up with
>everything first time.  In leveling the fuselage with the wing attached, I
>find that the center spar will flex a bit, mostly fore & aft.  Does anyone
>have any suggestions about how to support the wing?  I have it attached at
>the spar and a rigid stand out beyond the aileron with an adjustable pad to
>set it on.  I adjusted the pad such that I estimate there is no bending load
>on the spar.  The other alternative is to let the wing support itself, as it
>will when everything is finished.  Has anyone tried either method?
>
>John epplin     Mk4   #467

If I remember (been quite a few years), here's how I did it:  I mounted
both wings.  I know, I know.  If you don't have room inside to do this, you
might consider doing it outside, because it won't take very long.  Once the
wings are on, you can build a temporary rib out of the same material that
the strake/tank baffles are made of.  It should butt up to the forward face
of the extreme outboard end of the center section spar, and lie right
against the inboard section of the wing.  Glue it with 5 minute and micro,
to the spar only.  Make it fairly robust at this joint.  Sand the rib to
match the wing perfectly.  This will be easy, because there is no strake in
the way of your sanding block yet.  When they match, remove the wings, and
head back inside.  Using a pair of dividers set to the thickness of your
strake (I used the featherlite leading edge kits) material, mark the rib
for removal of just that much material around the perimeter.  This worked
so easily and perfectly, I couldn't believe it, myself.  I have a nearly
perfect match, and it is one part of the bird I'm truly proud to show off
to other builders.  Also, now you can walk all around without that wing in
the way!  At the appropriate time, later, when the outer glass skin is on,
you can knock out this temporary rib and glass the inner surfaces.

--Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:02:58 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge

>Jean writes  <Fuel gauge on control panel>
>Sounds like many places to leak.
>Yes, its at the correct W.L. almost with the fuselage level. How many ti=
mes is
>the fuselage going to be level in flight, and how do you know in flight
>that it
>is level? The fuselage could easily be off level in that distance to cre=
ate an
>error of 2 inches. I have when running a tank low watched for less than =
a half
>inch before switching.
>
>Electronic or a small mirror in the side pocket with Vance's gauges is t=
he way
>to go.

I could not agree more with the above assesment.  Additionally, the
suggested system would run several lengths of fuel line, some of it flex,
I'm sure, into and around the cabin, and in particular, near one of the
most likely sources of fire (behind the instrument panel).  This, alone,
would stop me from doing it.  I installed the Sport Flight capacitance
tubes in my Long EZ tanks, though I cannot reccomend this, because I
haven't flown with them, yet.  I don't have the luxury of the turtledeck
overlapping the tank top, so I built a rather elaborate "indentation" in
the tank-top, and installed the aluminum mounting flange in it.  I embede=
d
a plastic soda straw conduit for the wires, but I'm already regretting
that, because the wires are rather fat, and I'm going to have to replace
them with thiner ones.  This will allow a removable flush cap for
adjustments or repair.  It has the added advantage of being a port I can
open to see the sump-screens just a few inches away.  I rejected the idea
of going in through a side-wall, because it creates another potential fue=
l
path to the passenger compartment.  My "indentation" won't allow me to
accurately read the quantity when near full, but it will (hopefully) be
very accurate near empty, where it really counts.  Of course I will have =
a
totalizer and the sight gauges.  Belt and suspenders, I always say!  I di=
d
this because I like to have something in my field of view during normal
scanning that will remind me to switch tanks, etc.  I also sometimes wake
up with a very stiff neck, so I don't like having to depend on those sigh=
t
gauges.  Perhaps I should swallow the Viagra=AE more quickly!

--Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:10:16 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant

> Another solution would be some sort of
>dome over each bolt on the tank side.

        There is, in fact, a standard aircraft part, just for this purpose.
It is a sealed, domed nutplate that would have to be attatched to your
mounting ring with flush rivets and the appropriate PRC or equivalent
sealer.  Not difficult, if you haven't already glassed it in yet.  A bit
more difficult, if done afterwards, but doable, with a rivet squeezer
(borrow from an RV builder).
Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148



Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:32:49 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

I guess I come down on Nat's side, on the seperate and independant fuel
tanks.  But I can also see the argument for two tanks into one sump.  I
believe that a venting system can be arranged so that the loss of one cap
will not inturrupt flow to the engine.  In favor of the two-into-one
system, one could argue that there is a notable category of mishap caused
by the pilot failing to switch tanks in a timely fasion, or a valve getting
stuck "halfway through" such an operation..... in other words: fuel
mismanagement.  Simplicity is good.  There are a couple more issues here,
though, and I will stick my neck out in a third direction, because I have
gripes with the designed system, also.  Functionally, the Long EZ fuel
system is almost identical to my Grumman Cheetah's fuel system.  Two
seperate tanks, each with its own small sump.  A single valve with "right,
left, and off" positions.  Because the EZ is a pusher, however, that valve
between the pilot's knees (or between the front seats, in the case of the
Cozy) introduces a slight difference, namely the LENGTH of the lines going
forward and aft to and from it.  Visualize switching to a contaminated tank
(it can happen to anyone!).  By the time the engine begins to cough and
complain, and you decide maybe you should go back to the known good tank,
you now must empty out the entire length of line between the valve and the
engine before the good fuel is once again flowing.  Exactly how much
difference will this make?  Hard to say, but as one who has experienced a
brief period of uncommanded engine silence, I can testify that it seems
like an eternity (yes, I got it going again.  Carb ice).  I also did not
like the idea of fuel in the cockpit, so I made a change.  I reason that my
change is OK, because it does not alter the fuel schematic or
functionality.  It simply shortens the fuel lines by moving the valve back
to the FORWARD face of the firewall, in the same horizontal plane that it
would have occupied in the stock location.  I have a torque tube and
universal joint to actuate it (slightly similar to the original Varieze
system).  I will have micro-switches to verify valve position, operating
LEDs on the panel, right next to my fuel gauges.  The valve is the best I
could find (not cheap), and has the smoothest operation, with very
clearly-felt detents. This change keeps all the fuel lines extremely short,
and makes me very happy.  But there is one other feature of the stock EZ
fuel system that bothers me, and I am not familiar enough with the Cozy to
know if this is also the same.  The location of the fuel vents, up on top,
just aft of the canopy.  I have four seperate ones (bug-plug, and
pitch-attitude redundancy), and that's good.  My only worry would be in an
off-airport landing that resulted in a flip-over, with me trapped inside
for a while.  Fuel can just run out through these vents.  It isn't
practical to copy the Grumman solution of making a "hump" in the vent line
and then taking them to the underside of the wing, because part of what
makes this work in the Grumman is the dihedral of the wings, and the EZ has
none.  I debated whether to run them up the winglets or something, but that
would have necessitated a break-apart vent line when removing the wings.
I'm still not sure how I feel about this, and I wonder if anyone else has
worried about it enough to try doing something about it?
Howard Rogers,  A&P 2005248



Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:18:48 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

<cdenk says>


>KISS (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID): The system with all kinds of switches,
>u-joints, >etc. is an accident waiting to happen.

It sounds like we are in pretty much complete agreement.  I like your idea
about where to vent, and I may change my system, as a result.  I will,
however, take exception to the above criticism, due to u-joints and
switches.  The u-joint (only one) is of the same type that connects you
directly to pitch and roll control in a Cessna, a Piper, or even my
Grumman.  They take a lot of abuse for a lot of years, with no problems.
The tiny fraction of that duty cycle one would ever see in moving a fuel
valve occaisionally, gives me absolutely no cause for concern, and I am
glad to trade it for moving the valve and its lines out of the
people-compartment.  As for my switches, I have them there in only a
supplementary role, much as I have the fuel gage on the panel in a
supplementary role to the primary sight gages on the tanks.  I can still
see (and feel) my valve position directly, but I like the idea of a little
light on the panel, directly in my scan, reminding me of which tank is
currently selected.  I feel this is important to me, precisely BECAUSE so
many pilots have come to grief for forgetting to switch tanks.  Everything
I can do to assist my poor human brain, I WILL do, because I have forgotten
to switch tanks before, and I'll bet everyone reading this has, too.
Fortunately, I remembered BEFORE that quietness overtook me each time.
Just to add some suspenders to my belts, I plan to also have a fuel
totalizer with an alarm to remind me to switch tanks at appropriate times,
based on consumption.  Maybe that makes me paranoid, but I don't believe
any of these measures violate the KISS principle.  The system itself IS
simple.  Two tanks; short, level lines; one valve, right, left, off; *NO*
fuel in the cockpit.
Howard Rogers, A&P 2005248

--Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:26:48 -0800
From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers)
Subject: COZY: fuel design

I have been away, and unable to defend myself.  I'm back, so here goes:
cdenk says:
>Has anyone experienced a fuel leak between the tanks and before going through
>the firewall??????

To which Jim Newman replies:
>Yes, while test flying a Long-EZ for someone.

I respond:
Anywhere you have fittings and valves, you have the potential for a leak.
The mounting place for my valve (and please pay attention here) is on the
FORWARD face of the firewall, where there are no known sources of ignition.
There will be wiring there, as well, but I haven't figured out how to
avoid that, yet.  The wiring will be above the fuel system components
(always a good idea, everywhere in aircraft).  Assuming that I do develop a
leak, the fuel will drain harmlessly out the bottom.  Now, assuming that
your front-mounted fuel valve some day devlops a leak, in the case of the
Long EZ, it will be dribbling out under your crotch.  Which location would
you prefer this leak to develop?  Of course we would prefer no leaks, and
good inspection and mainatenance practices can ALMOST do that.  Give it
your best shot.
        By the way, on this subject of leaks, I would like to make what I
consider a very important reccomendation to anyone who is not aware of
this, and it comes from my A&P background.  Fuel or oil lines should never
be run through the firewall (or any other bulkhead) by just taking the
aluminum or other-material tubing through some type of grommet.  It may
look bomb-proof, and you might smile with pride when you gaze at it, but it
is going to wear through and leak, some day.  It's just a matter of time.
Use a bulkhead fitting.

Nat Puffer says:
>The Long EZ John Denver purchased had a fuel system that was not installed
>according to plans. The fuel selector valve was located on the firewall at
>the end of a long torque tube. Apparently it worked well for around a
>thousand hours, until John Denver bought it. Then he bought the farm.

I was not aware that John Denver's valve was aft-located, with a torque
tube.  The report I read stated that the valve was located behind the
pilot's LEFT shoulder.  It also stated that John was carrying a pair of
pliers, presumably to turn a sticky valve.  This sticky valve business has
been rehashed endlessly in Canard Pusher, and elsewhere, but I guess it
bears repeating that a valve that needs a pair of pliers to turn has no
business up in the air, whether it is at the end of a torque tube, or right
between your knees.  Bite the bullet, and spend some money on this
important piece of equipment.  Perhaps John could be forgiven for not
knowing the full scoop on the history of these valves, because he just
bought the airplane.  Still, I can't imagine what the builder was thinking
when he selected this questionable location for the valve (or handle),
simply because your right hand (the obvious choice to actuate this valve)
should be occupied by the stick.  My torque-tube runs level to my valve,
and is located beside my right hip, where I can very easily reach it
without having to loosen any harness or belt, and with my LEFT hand.  The
first time I feel anything but the smooth, easy, positive-detent type
action that I expect and demand from a fuel valve, I will immediately dig
into my wallet and take care of it.  My point, here, is that there is
nothing wrong with the concept of an aft-mounted valve and a torque tube,
if it's done right.  There are a lot of Variezes out there that tend to
support this point.

Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148

--Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052
hrogers@slac.stanford.edu



Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 23:50:17 -0400
From: Ian Douglas <douglas@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

Hi John,

One of the Velocity builders down the road did the following to hold his
outboard wing:

He put a couple of steel eyes into the roof and attached ropes.  He put
a turn buckle on each side of the wing and attached the other side to a
short legth of rope.  He then made a clamp to hold the wing (form #5 for
us) and bolted the ropes on.  He was able to adjust height and pitch by
turning the buckles and adjusting rope lengths.  This assumes that you
are able to work inside with a wing attached.
-- 
Best regards,
Ian D.S. Douglas 
Cozy MKIV #0069
starke ribs and bulkheads completed.

Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:15:43 -0400
From: Ian DS Douglas <douglas@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

> Ian,
> 
> I called Nat on this about three months ago and he said that this is fine to use.  I too have
> already made the rips and glassed them but haven't mounted them yet.  So what's the real story
> here?  I just bought a few gallons to epoxy to build the strakes.  if I switch do I need a
> different pump?
> 
> ...Marty Kansky 
> Plans 321

It would appear that it is more of a CYA thing.  Aeropoxy have said (not
in writing) that their epoxy will stand up to fuel just as good as
anyone elses.  I have one of my scratch cups (left over) filled with
fuel, I'll check it in a week or two and see if it is getting soft,
rubbery or cracking etc...
-- 
Best regards,
Ian D.S. Douglas                   
MK0069

From: Jannie Versfeld <qmain@intekom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Garage Door
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 06:20:21 +0000

Hi all,

I too have a two car garage with two 8ft2" garage door openings.  I have
also tried calculating various ways and angles to get a completed Cozy
out.(without wings and canard) 

As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural support in
both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make either
both or one of the strakes removable.  One can still maintain the smooth
clean lines with this method.  I have not yet checked with Nat if this would
cause any adverse problems and one would have to calculate the strengs of
the attachment points. (Maybe the same method as used with the wings?)

The benifit I see in doing it this way is that the strakes will be much
easier to handle in the event of leakage or while sloshing the inside for a
leak free tank.

Comments please?


From: Jannie Versfeld <qmain@intekom.co.za>
Subject: Re: COZY: Garage Door
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:33:06 +0000

I understand the torsional loads exerted on the spar and that the strakes
take this load up and transfer it to the fuselage.

But .... If one uses the same method of attaching the wings to the spar and
apply it to attaching the strakes to the spar at four points and to the
fuselage at the leading edge, surely it will the be more than sufficient in
transferring the torsional loads.

I will calculate the torsional loads at 9g's and work out a load transfer
layup of BID on the fuselage sides as well as the attach points.  If one is
using fuel guages one can omit the fuel guage windows in the fuselage sides.

Nat,

I would like to hear your comments on this.  Is it possible that Burt Rutan
can advise on this.

At 08:39 AM 3/24/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>
>> As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural support in
>> both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make either
>> both or one of the strakes removable.  One can still maintain the smooth
>> clean lines with this method.  I have not yet checked with Nat if this would
>> cause any adverse problems and one would have to calculate the strengs of
>> the attachment points. (Maybe the same method as used with the wings?)
>>
>
>To my understanding, this is a NO NO solution. The strakes are taking over the
>torsionnal loads applied by the wing to the whole airplane.
>    Consider like I am in cutting the pole at some point.I like the solution of
>having a removable pole.
>Happy building.
>    Benoit LECOQ
>
>
>
>


Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 09:35:44 +0100
From: Jean-Jacques CLAUS <fpjjc@hol.fr>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge

Epplin John A wrote:
> 
> I am in the process of building the strakes.  The fuel window has some good
> features, it will always work, cannot get any simpler etc.  


Hello from France,

Personally, I consider bringing up the following system.  

It would be composed of a hose in shape of buckle that would come from
the bottom of the tank to go up again upwards while passing by the
control panel.  
  
On the control panel, the hose would be transparent. The WL's of the
control panel and the tank are compatible to permit to see an accurate
level of fuel through the transparent hose.  
  
With this system, there would be of each side of the control panel a
visual reference of the fuel level in the tanks. The visual circuit of
control would be therefore more comfortable.  

Finally, this system cannot fall in breakdown and is low cost.  
  
Does someone have already install or think about a similar fuel gauge
system ? 

Happy building,



Jean-Jacques CLAUS
French Cosy Builder


Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:50:13 +0100
From: Jean-Jacques CLAUS <fpjjc@hol.fr>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge

cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
>I have when running a tank low watched for less than a half
> inch before switching.
> 
Be Carefull for your health

> Electronic or a small mirror in the side pocket with Vance's gauges is the way
> to go.

I consider this way too.


Jean-Jacques CLAUS


From: "Johnson, Phillip" <Phillip.Johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Tanks
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:46:04 -0500

Steve Write writes:

>	I think in the long run two separate tanks are more dangerous than one as
>	accidents from fuel mismanagement are more frequent than accidents from
>	contaminated gas (check the FAA stats). 

Hear hear.

An adequate high power run up prior to departure should reveal
contaminated fuel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
Phillip Johnson
Ottawa,
Ontario,
Canada.

Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
	(613) 599 3289 ext 441 or 232

Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Subaru EG33
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------



Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:18:39 -0500
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: COZY: Strakes

I've finally managed to complete my hanger/workshop and so my bird in
now out of the basement and all the components are ready for final
assembly. The spar is installed and the canopy / turtle back is on,
consoles and controls are installed. Only the strakes remain. When
reading the directions for this chapter it appears that the inner skin
for the strake is a single ply of BID likewise the ribs and baffles are
only single plies of BID. Is this correct or am I missing something? The
strakes are quoted as being structural members but a single ply seems a
little light in the strength department. With  potentially 150 lbs. of
fuel per side, and a few G's, the lower skin is going to try to dish out
putting the internal skin into compression which we all know is not its
most favourite mode. Am I just being over sensitive?

The second point is that the plans call for all joints to be made with
micro but the drawings show flox. I am assuming flox but again am I
missing something?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 441 or 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:45:14 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>

Nat Puffer writes:> snip

 I personally would have
no concern about using any of the approved epoxies in fuel cells of any
airplane I would be building, if I intended to use aviation fuel. I am
not
quite as confident in any of the epoxies if I intended to use automobile
fuels, because the content of automobile fuels is much less regulated
and
auto fuels contain organic chemicals which are more aggressive in their
dissolving power.

end>

It may be worth considering that the new unleaded aviation fuels are
based on auto fuels and our next generation of engines will be expecting
these fuels. If auto fuel represents a potential hazard with some
epoxies then it would be safe to use one of the ones that is good for
all fuels.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 441 or 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:41:58 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: COZY: Strake Skins

I shall be getting to the point of closing up my strakes within the next
two weeks, work permitting, so I have been reading ahead to see the
outer skin lay-up schedules. I was surprised to see that lay-up #4 (I
think that it was #4, which is the additional lay-up of UNI that runs
close to the fuselage and parallel with the axis of the fuselage) lies
with the fibres parallel to the axis of the fuselage. The plans say that
it is there to give additional strength for kneeling etc. Surely the
best fibre orientation would be perpendicular to the fuselage axis. This
would give the maximum strength for the bending configuration
encountered with kneeling on the strake. Has anyone else had thoughts on
this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:41:55 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: COZY: RE: Fuel quantity gauge

John epplin writes:
snip>	Has anyone installed these in the Cozy strakes?........
	Can the sender be installed through the fuselage side wall, using
the bendable unit?
end<

I have just bought two units from Skysports and I am in the process of
installing them through the rear face of the strake/baggage bay. I
bought the 12" senders with bendable ends so the I can bend the portion
near the electronics up to the roof of the tank before the 'S" bend back
to the bottom. (For those of you not familiar with the senders, there is
a region of the probe, adjacent to the electronics' boss, that is
unaffected by the fuel so that fuel depth is only measured beyond a
pre-determined position on the probe.) This should allow me to measure
to the full depth of the fuel tank.

I have also bought Vance Adkinson's fuel sight gauges for direct visual
measurement but it looks as if Vance's gauges do no sight over the full
depth of the tank. Has anyone else noticed this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:34:30 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant

I had the same concerns as the rest of you. The design offered by Sky
sports is poor in terms of sealing. In anticipation of this problem, and
with the top of the strake not yet in place I relieved the foam on the
tank side of the rear strake/baggage bulkhead right back to the glass of
the baggage bay side of the bulkhead, and to an area approximately 0.5
inches larger than the aluminium plate. I then laid up two plies of BID
into this area lapping up and over the three foam exposed edges Flox
joints were used in all corners) and clamped the aluminium flange
against this new lay-up. After cure, cleaning off the excess glass, and
drilling the five plus one holes from the tank side of the installation,
I installed some PVC foam, using micro, into the residual cavity. Again
after cure, I sanded the PVC foam flush with the inside of the fuel tank
then layed up two plies of BID over the whole area. By using this
arrangement the screw paths are sealed by the PVC foam and the BID. The
result is not tested yet but it is as well sealed as the rest of the
tank.

Phillip Johnson

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:57:37 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant

Carl Denk Writes:
snip>
I don't know the problem, I have the skysports, and haven't had a
problem in 
600 hours 4.5 years.
end<

As I recall you configured your sealing interface above the fuel level
so the problem would not be applicable to your configuration. The rear
bulkhead installation requires that the interface is at or below fuel
level which is an entirely different situation.

I have spent 25 years putting electronics in underwater situations and I
am very familiar with the potential for leakage. An isolated case that
does not leak does not mean that the design is not poor. There are a lot
of Ford Pinto's around that did not explode with rear impact but the
design was still bad.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:11:39 -0400
From: "Johnson, Phillip" <phillip.johnson@lmco.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Tank Testing

Paul,

I had a similar problem when testing my sump tank. I pressurized my tank
to a pressure of 4 to six feet of water pressure (it was a couple of
years ago so I don't remember the exact pressure), the next day the
pressure had dropped. I thought I had a leak. I kept the manometer in
situ for the next few days recording the pressure at various intervals
throughout the day. The pressure went up and down throughout the day
indicating that it was sensitive to the ambient temperature and
possibly, atmospheric pressure. After a week of holding the nominally
constant pressure I concluded that I had a leak free tank.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 232
Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
Canada.		Subaru EG33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From: "L. Wayne Hicks" <hicks@indy.spacetec-inc.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Re: Fuel flap
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:42:41 -0400



-----Original Message-----
From:	Bulent [SMTP:atlasyts@idt.net]
Sent:	Sunday, June 21, 1998 4:59 PM
To:	norm; Cozy Builders
Subject:	COZY: Re: Fuel flap

Hi Norm and Al, thanks again for the support. I have been thinking more
about it and I am sure the whole thing can be made of alum. very simple,
light weight  and almost 99.9% tight. The flap will be self aligning
against the bottom of the fill throat.

[L. Wayne Hicks]  Forget the flap.  What you need is a check valve. 
 Nothing more than a small diameter, lightweight metal sphere encaged in 
the bottom of the fuel throat.  If you lose the cap, the suction pulls the 
ball up against the throat.  Voila.   


Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:33:00 -0700
From: "LCDR James D. Newman" <infaero@flash.net>
Subject: COZY: Re:  Yet another fuel design

Hi All,

>> hrogers writes <no fuel in the people area> then where, aft the firewall where there are all kinds of things that can ignite gasoline.

> Carl Denk wrote:
> Has anyone experienced a fuel leak between the tanks and before going through the firewall??????

	Yes, while test flying a Long-EZ for someone.


Infinity's Forever,

	JD



From: Lee810@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:26:49 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

In a message dated 6/24/98 10:57:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time, alwick@juno.com
writes:

<< The discussion about fuel flap inspired this idea. What do you think? 
 Instead of using that triangle shaped sheet metal to anchor your fuel cap
 to, what about making it a cone instead? When cap falls off, it pulls
 cone into fuel hole and seals most of the gas from leaking. You'd have to
 design cone so it cannot cover your fuel inlet if it fell off. Maybe a
 sphere would be better.
 Now the same component eliminates cap falling into prop, omitted cap, and
 fuel loss upon cap loss. Eh? Simple.
  >>

One problem is installing it in the fuel tank.  The flat triangle is designed
in such a way that it can be rotated and inserted into through the filler
hole.  It's not an equilateral triangle, but rather a squashed triangle with
one side much longer than the other two.  It's suspended from from the cap
with a chain which will attempt to pull the triangle through the filler hole
in a way which it will not fit should the cap come off in flight.  If you ever
need to remove it, you can rotate it and pull it out.

With the standard EZ caps, there's also a wire going across the filler hole
for the camlock fastener.  This would prevent a cone from coming up and
sealing the hole.  

A cone may be an option for those who are still building and haven't sealed up
their tanks and are using a different type of filler cap.

Lee Devlin   LongEZ N36MX   http://members.aol.com/lee810

From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 08:52:27 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Re:  Fuel selector valve 


     JD wrote:
        >Bird strikes.  A hole in one of the strakes would siphon the fuel out
     >of both tanks...
     >snip
     
     Unless there is a sump which is lower than the strakes, say in the 
     main gear well area, and the main tanks are fed to the top (or near 
     top) of the sump. Assuming of course that the main gear area was made 
     available as a sump through some means of re-locating the gear....  
     One would still have fuel in the sump after the mains were empty and 
     the hole starts to suck air through the sump vent(s).  The 5 or 6 
     gallons in the sump is a fair reserve.  No valves needed at all other 
     than maybe on/off.
     
     Just a thought.
     
     Larry Schuler Cozy-IV plans #500
     



From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 17:14:14 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel tanks 


     
Robert or Carla Kittler wrote:
>How about fuel contamination.  No second choice for a fuel source. One tank 
>equals a single source failure possibility
     
You mean kind of like the main spar snapping in the center rather than just 
having one wing (as opposed to both at the same time) fall off?

I think "ALL" planes with a single sump tank have this concern, BUT:
     
Wouldn't one's willingness to put up with "some" level of non-redundancy be 
determined by that "individual's" comfort level?  Guess we could really go way 
out and just fly two Cozy's everywhere we go; one is sure to get there.  
Extreem, to be sure, but illustrates the idea of "reasonableness".  Gotta stop 
somewhere...... Choices.

Personally I have NEVER had a car stop due to bad gas (one plugged fuel filter, 
but that was my own stupidity).  Therefore, if airplane gas obtained at 
airports is still as bad as it was in the un-controlled 1920s when valves were 
first used, then I intend to get my airplane gas at the same place I get my car 
gas.  That makes sense too.  Course I'm gonna cheat and use an engine designed 
and manufactured in the 1990s rather than an antique designed and made in the 
1940s.
     
Not trying to slam your thinking, because it does make some good sense; but, I 
sure can't remember topping of just one tank before taking off.  Bad gas 
likely ends up in both tanks anyway.... Unless you are refering to the 
condensation the pilot forgot to drain out of one tank...... but that's 
another issue.
     
Larry Schuler
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
     
     



From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 16:47:47 -0600
Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel tanks 


Steve Wright wrote:
>snip
>The safer design may be to have separate fuel lines from each tank- each with 
>it's own filter so if one filter is clogged then the other filter would pass 
>good gas from a clean tank. Comments please!

Maybe.  You sure the filter plugged due to one fill-up or was it over time????
I think it would be hard to tell for sure unless one started with an 
absolutely clean filter each flight.

More pipe, more fittings, etc etc.

May be simpler to just change the single fuel filter with each oil filter 
change.

Just a thought.

Larry Schuler Cozy plans #500
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
     



From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 98 16:07:13 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Skins 


Johnson Phillip wrote:

>snip
>The plans say that it is there to give additional strength for kneeling 
>etc. Surely the best fibre orientation would be perpendicular to the 
>fuselage axis. This would give the maximum strength for the bending 
>configuration encountered with kneeling on the strake. Has anyone else 
>had thoughts on this?

Hmmmm.  Seems to me that we put in extra BID on the floor to stand on and 
that BID is better at distributing load in mutiple directions; in 
particular point-loads.  Also seems to me that knee-bones (at least mine) 
would cause higher point loads than say a foot and way higher than a 
tooshie (mine anyway).

Just thinking (ie: getting myself in trouble again).

We'll have to let Nat provide the intent of the additional ply whether it 
is to distribute the total body load to the fuselage or to distribute the 
point-load of the 220 Lb knee bone across the strake skin.

FWW

Larry Schuler
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com



From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 09:57:39 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod 


Al Wick wrote:
<snip
Instead of using that triangle shaped sheet metal to anchor your fuel cap 
to, what about making it a cone instead? 
>snip

Neat idea; but, the triangle can be insrted or removed from outside.  The 
cone/ball would need to be flexible enough to be manually forced through 
the filler opening for installation or rplacement.  Defeat the purpose?

Larry Schuler
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com



From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 10:52:50 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario? 


Randy Smith wrote:
>snip
>A.  The vent line will bubble air through the fuel and out of the hole.

"BUT", the vent line is just a wee bit smaller than the filler neck and 
can't keep up with the volume of flow.  Thus the gush.

>B.  If the fuel selector is selecting the now open tank, fuel flow to 
>engine _could_ be reduced/shut off.

Yup.  I think the idea is to keep the engine from stopping dead and allow 
for other more benign indicators of an open tank, such as higher than 
normal usage etc.  Might mean the difference between getting down safely 
under power, or coming down with no power.  Minutes are life.

>C.  If the fuel selector is selecting the other tank, We fly around with
>a low pressure area on top of the fuel, bubbling air through the vent line 
>and banging (or perhaps not) the fuel cap against the strake.

Yup.  Low pressure will be on top of open tank only.  Unless you tie vents 
together.

>What am I missing?
>-Randy "I'll probably add a spring loaded flap" Smith

Nothing; and, that's why you are selecting the sping-flap; just one flavor 
of the same "slow-the-gush-'if'-the-cap-comes-off" idea.

Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com




From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 11:33:01 -0600
Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario? 


Al Wick wrote:
>snip
>Door has limit switch which notifies pilot if not closed. 
>snip

FWW
I'd be more than a bit leary of putting 'any' kind of switch in an area 
where air and fuel/vapors are at the same place at the same time.

Swithces create arcs!  Tiptoe through that brier patch very carefully.

Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500
lschuler@cellular.uscc.com




From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 16:54:22 -0600
Subject: Re[4]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?  


Al Wick wrote:

>All of my limit switches use ground wires only. No power. Logic is open= 
>off, grounded= on. Didn't even think someone would run power thru those 
>puppies, but you are right, some people will.

Al, 

I'd suggest you rethink the idea of "ground wires only".

What good is a switch if there is a ground connected to both sides?

In order for a switch to be of any use, there must be something on one side, 
(say a voltage) that is inherently different on the other side (say a 
ground).  The difference causes arcs.  period.  Don't matter that the 
current is minuscule (such as TTL levels); it's still there.

Say you take a limit switch, such as gear down.  One side goes to ground, 
the other goes to a light bulb.  The other side of the bulb is connected to 
a voltage.  With the switch open, there is no current flow, but you will be 
able to read voltage on the bulb side of the switch.  That voltage is just 
current waiting to happen.  As soon as the switch is closed, the current 
happens and the bulb is lit.

Same stuff is going on inside that IC chip you paid big pennies for.  Just 
replace the bulb described above with the internal chip circuit.  

Current (a difference in potential from one point to another) causes the 
arc.

Be careful with fuel.

If you really need a 'fuel cap off warning' switch.  Think of something 
without physical contacts, such as an optical or other proximity device.

Larry



From: Marc J. Zeitlin <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: COZY: Garage Door
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 10:15:09 EST

Jannie Versfeld wrote:

>As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural support in
>both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make either
>both or one of the strakes removable.

__DON'T DO THIS__.  The strakes ABSOLUTELY ARE structural members, and
are critical to the plane working correctly.  You would have to
completely redesign the structure of the aircraft in order to make them
removable.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: Marc J. Zeitlin <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: COZY: Strake removal
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 15:37:09 EST

Janne Versfeld wrote:

>But .... If one uses the same method of attaching the wings to the spar and
>apply it to attaching the strakes to the spar at four points and to the
>fuselage at the leading edge, surely it will the be more than sufficient in
>transferring the torsional loads.

Well, it's the "surely" in your last sentence that's the issue.  Without
a thorough stress analysis, a "maybe" would be a lot more accurate.

>I will calculate the torsional loads at 9g's and work out a load transfer
>layup of BID on the fuselage sides as well as the attach points.

Remember that you will have all point loads on the spar and in the
fuselage - you will have to redesign both to accept these loads and
distribute them as they were with the permanent attachment.

This seems like a lot more work and risk that just a one-time
modification of the workshop to allow the plane to be removed........

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: Marc J. Zeitlin <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: COZY: Strakes (fwd)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 98 13:46:19 EST

Phillip Johnson writes:

>........ Only the strakes remain. When
>reading the directions for this chapter it appears that the inner skin
>for the strake is a single ply of BID likewise the ribs and baffles are
>only single plies of BID. Is this correct or am I missing something?

That's how I read it too.  ONE BID.

>.......Am I just being over sensitive?

I think so.  There are a zillion L.E.'s and COZY's flying with this layup
schedule - I've got to believe it works.  Remember, there are two/three
layers of glass on the outer surface - that'll take most of the stress
flow.

>The second point is that the plans call for all joints to be made with
>micro but the drawings show flox. I am assuming flox but again am I
>missing something?

I agree with your FLOX determination.  I think there's just a discrepancy
with the wording - the FLOX is certainly what should be used for
structural joints.  I'd use micro only to fill in the radiused corners
where the ribs join the strake skins under the 2 BID tapes.  Also, using
the archived methodology to build the 1" - 2" wide lips on top of the
ribs for the strake top skin, FLOX is explicitly called for.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: Marc J. Zeitlin <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
Date: Wed, 6 May 98 8:52:54 EDT

Ian D.S. Douglas writes;

>I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake bulkheads
>and ribs......  They DO NOT recommend it....

While Carl D.'s suggestion of making the bulkheads over with new foam,
glass, and a different epoxy (EZ10/84 or some other known fuel resistant
one) is perfectly reasonable, you might also be able to merely sand the
bulkheads thoroughly and apply a peel-ply'ed thick layer of EZ10/84. 
This will provide the fuel resistance along with ensuring (due to the
peel-ply overlay) that you've got complete coverage.  This would save
time and money without adding a substantial amount of weight.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: Marc J. Zeitlin <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
Date: Fri, 8 May 98 11:40:59 EDT

Howard Rogers wrote:

>......  I finally ended up
>just leaving the foam edges bare, with a bit of epoxy lightly brushed on
>during installation, to prevent powdery foam bits from falling off.

In my usual fashion of worrying about certain things and not worrying
about others while not always having a basis for either, I had decided
to do the following:

  1) Ignore the edges of the baffles that will be hard up against the
     strake walls with flox between and 2 BID over them.  Leave these as
     bare foam, with the assumption that the flox and BID will prevent
     any fuel from touching the foam.

  2) Route out 1/16" foam from the baffle semi-circular cutouts for fuel
     movement, fill with wet flox, and cover with 1 BID.  I figured this
     would seal those areas completely as well, and only expose glass to
     the fuel.

>I doubt if either of us will ever have trouble with them.

I bet you're right - since the PVC is impervious, and closed cell to
boot, I'm guessing this is all overkill.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: RE: Fuel quantity gauge
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 12:27:04 EDT

Carl Denk wrote:

>Remember that with the back seat full of luggage, you can't see Vance's
>gauges,  I recommend electric gauges. I have the Skysports. The Cosy
>turtleback overlaps  the strakes, giving a nice inside mounting with a
>straight probe.

I am planning on doing essentially the same thing (pretty soon, too -
I've just got the ribs into my right strake).  I've got the Westach dual
gauge with the capacitance senders.  I'm planning on putting the probes
as close to the fuselage sides as possible in the top of the strake,
right behind Vance's gauges (which, as Phillip J. and Carl D. say, DON'T
span the whole height of the tank, but I think they're a lot nicer than
the plans gauge anyway).   I think that I will be able to create a small
semi-permanent cover (as Carl said, the turtleback overlaps that area)
for the probe so that it's accessible for repair or adjustment.  I think
I'll run the wires through a small hole just under the longeron (on top
of the strake - not inside the tank), and then forward to the panel.

With this installation (whom, BTW, I got the idea from Keith Spreuer on
his COZY MKIV) there are no extra holes from the tank into the passenger
compartment.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 9:19:00 EDT

John Epplin wrote:

>.......  Another solution would be some sort of
>dome over each bolt on the tank side.  I am thinking of making a ring of PVC
>foam to fit the bolt circle about 1/4 in thick, placing this inside the tank
>on the bolt circle and glassing over it.

Great minds think alike.  This is pretty much exactly what I did in
anticipation of leakage around the bolts.  This way, the fuel only
touches the sender on the INSIDE of the bolts, where the gasket is wider
and easier to seal - there's not a lot of contact area of the gasket
outside of the bolt holes.  Haven't tested it yet to see if it seals
yet, though.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel tank covers
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 10:01:21 EDT

Bill Theeringer writes:

>I hope all canard builders are installing the access openings to their fuel
>tanks far enough outboard to miss the prop when they come loose.  I don't
>know about others, but the original Long EZ plans weren't. 

On the COZY MKIV, since the fuselage is wider, the plans positions for
the fuel caps is outside of any reasonable prop arc - no changes are
necessary (unless you're going to use an 80" dia. prop, which will lead
to some other interesting problems :-) ).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                              Email: marcz@an.hp.com

Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 17:41:02 -0700
From: marcna <marcna@concentric.net>
Subject: COZY: Vent Line Protection


 I just installed the firewall  and am starting to run the
fuel vent lines over the covering.  Has any one given any
thought to adding firesleeve over the lines for protection?
If you should have a fire in the engine compartment the vent
lines may be gone in a short time.

Marc Parmelee
N425CZ

From: "Martin K. Kansky" <mkansky@esper.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:41:15 -0700

Ian,

I called Nat on this about three months ago and he said that this is =
fine to use.  I too have already made the rips and glassed them but =
haven't mounted them yet.  So what's the real story here?  I just bought =
a few gallons to epoxy to build the strakes.  if I switch do I need a =
different pump?

...Marty Kansky=20
Plans 321

-----Original Message-----
From:	Ian DS Douglas [SMTP:douglas@ibm.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, May 05, 1998 1:57 PM
To:	Cozy Builders
Subject:	COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

Hi Guys,

I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake bulkheads
and ribs.  I then realised that I may not be using the right stuff for
this task and phoned Aeropoxy.  After talking with the guys at PTM&W I
got sent a Fax about Fuel tanks and Aeropoxy.  They DO NOT recommend
it.  They say (in their fax) that I should use a Polysulfide sealer
supplied by Morton International.  Anyone use this stuff?  How do you do
the sealing of the top / bottom skin (the last one to seal the tank
closed)?
--=20
Best regards,
Ian D.S. Douglas                  =20
COZY MKIV #0069 (Building strakes)

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:11:37 -0800
From: Martin Kansky <mkansky@pobox.com>
Subject: COZY: Cozy: Installing capacitance fuel senders


I am interested in obtaining any advice on installing capacitance type fuel
senders.   I purchased the Westach kit and am just starting on the strakes.
 Has anyone used these?  I would appreciate any advice / suggestions on
installing them.

Thanks

Marty Kansky (N321CZ)

From: mbeduhn@juno.com
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:18:27 -0500
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

When 2427 became unavailable I switched to Aeropoxy.  Before using it I
asked the distributor (Wicks) if it was OK for fuel.  I was told that it
was fully fuel proof, so I used it  for the rest of my plane including
the inside of the strakes.  They have had fuel in them since October '97.
 I hope it holds up because it's too late now.

Mark Beduhn
Cozy N494CZ

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:12:14 -0500
Subject: COZY: Fuel Systems
From: mikefly@juno.com (Michael B Bowden)

There are many aircraft designs flying with check  valves. The one I am
most familiar with is used in Lear Jets. A check valve is used to prevent
fuel stored in the wings from back filling into the tip tanks when the
fuel level in the tips is below the wings. A jet pump ( simple venturi
device ) is used to transfer remaining tip fuel into the wing tanks after
gravity looses it's effect. The Flight Safety instructor who decribed
these and other Lear systems would conclude each lecture with "works
good, lasts a long time" 

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Michael Pollock <Michael.Pollock@mci.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes

 John epplin wrote:
>The other alternative is to let the wing support itself, as it
>will when everything is finished.  Has anyone tried either method?


When we added the strakes for our Velocity, we leveled the fuselage
fore and aft and left and right and then attached the wings to the
center section spar.  Once that was done, we set the proper wing incidence
using foam wedges or blocks at the rear of the wing out by the winglet.
This also adjusted the load on the spar and got us the correct wing
sweep. The strakes were then added at that point.

Michael.Pollock@mci.com
Flying Velocity N173DT
Building Cozy MKIV #643


From: N11TE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:50:16 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design

In a message dated 98-06-17 20:06:04 EDT, cozy@extremezone.com writes:

<< Builders,
 We strongly recommend against a common sump (connecting both tanks
 together). It destroys the redundancy of two tanks. If something goes wrong
 with one tank (a lost gas cap----It happens) it goes wrong with both. A
 second factor is that it puts fuel inside the fuselage.
 Regards,
 Nat >>

I certainly appreciate your expression of concern, Nat.

However, I have also decided to use a common sump in my plane.  It was not a
decision made without very careful consideration of all the factors.  I
personally discussed this with several very highly respected and well known
Cozy builders who have installed a common sump in their planes in order to
find out their personal experiences and their actual results.

All builders reported that this common sump system works very well after many
flying hours.  None would go back to the original plans version.  Plus, it is
my understanding that Velocity has a similiar system in all their planes.  I
talked at length to Scott Swing and he stated that he knew of no problems with
this design.  And there are a lot more Velocitys flying than Cozys.

I used the plans as printed in Central States Newsletter for my guidelines and
modified them to fit the sump under the passenger side rear seat thigh support
instead of the way shown in the single rear-seat Cozy III place plans.

As far as having fuel in the cockpit, correct me if I'm wrong but I think the
plans call for a fuel valve to be located between the front seats.  So, fuel
is already in the fuselage and, in my opinion, has more opportunity for
leakage at the fuel line connections than from a sealed sump.

This is a very personal decision based upon each individual's opinion of where
the lower risk is involved.  I respect each builder's right to make this
decision and only offer this as a means of communicating that there is another
proven, viable option.

Tom Ellis
N11TE@aol.com

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:28:25 -0500

Dear Cozy builders,
There has been much discussion on the net as to what epoxy resin is
suitable to use for the fuel cells. Many years ago, Burt Rutan made the
recommendation to use Safe-t-Poxy for coating the fuel cells for maximum
fuel resistance. Prior to that time, everyone was using the only epoxy
available, which was RAE. Following his recommendation, several of us did
some testing putting glass layups made from RAE and Safe-t-poxy in jars
filled with aviation fuel and examining them after 3 months exposure. We
could find no difference between the RAE and the Safe-t-Poxy samples. Since
Co-Z Development is a licensee of Rutan Aircraft Factory, it did not seem
wise for us to contradict the recommendations of RAF. However, Nat Puffer
has a degree in Chemical Engineering, and understands the chemistry
involved, and can report the following: There are many variations in
polymerized epoxy resin. They are all very large molecular weight
cross-linked polymers. They have one characteristic in common, and that is
that they are insoluble in all but the most powerful solvents. Now aviation
fuels are largely made up of chemicals called alkanes, which happen to be
very weak solvents. Automobile fuels, with their much higher vapor
pressures, have more unsaturated cyclic organic compounds such as zylenes,
which are more powerful solvents. This notwithstanding, I understand that
most automobile fuel storage tanks are fiberglass, using epoxy resins. I do
not think it would be worthwhile to conduct solubility tests on the various
epoxy resins which have been approved for composite aircraft construction,
because I doubt whether it would be possible to show any difference in the
solubility between these epoxies, because by their very chemical
composition, they are considered to in insoluble. I personnally would have
no concern about using any of the approved epoxies in fuel cells of any
airplane I would be building, if I intended to use aviation fuel. I am not
quite as confident in any of the epoxies if I intended to use automobile
fuels, because the content of automobile fuels is much less regulated and
auto fuels contain organic chemicals which are more aggressive in their
dissolving power. Having said that, I doubt whether testing would show any
difference between fully cured RAE, Safe-t-Poxy, AeroPoxy, West System
Epoxy, or the new German Epoxies. I think it would be foolish to discard
baffles and ribs made from any of these epoxies in favor of a different
epoxy. If one of these manufacturers says that you should not use their
epoxy for fuel cells, I would be willing to bet that this is lawyer talk
designed to protect the manufacturer from future liability, simply because
juries who don't know anything about chemistry might be persuaded by some
clever lawyer to award big damages to a plaintiff. If you find leaks in
your fuel tanks, it is probably because you did not apply enough epoxy
coats to fill up the pin holes, or you did a poor job of floxing the top
cover of the strake. It is my opinion that in the one case an insurance
company concluded that an engine failure was due to dissolved epoxy
clogging up the fuel filter, the problem was really an inadequate job of
cleaning out the fuel tanks after cutting in the hole for the gas caps.
This is my educated opinion. I have no test data which would cause me to
recommend one epoxy as better than others.
Best regards,
Nat
> From: Martin K. Kansky <mkansky@esper.com>
> To: 'Ian DS Douglas' <douglas@ibm.net>; Cozy Builders
<cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com>
> Subject: RE: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 6:41 PM
> 
> Ian,
> 
> I called Nat on this about three months ago and he said that this is fine
to use.  I too have already made the rips and glassed them but haven't
mounted them yet.  So what's the real story here?  I just bought a few
gallons to epoxy to build the strakes.  if I switch do I need a different
pump?
> 
> ...Marty Kansky 
> Plans 321
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ian DS Douglas [SMTP:douglas@ibm.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 05, 1998 1:57 PM
> To:	Cozy Builders
> Subject:	COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am using Aeropoxy and just finished making all of the strake bulkheads
> and ribs.  I then realised that I may not be using the right stuff for
> this task and phoned Aeropoxy.  After talking with the guys at PTM&W I
> got sent a Fax about Fuel tanks and Aeropoxy.  They DO NOT recommend
> it.  They say (in their fax) that I should use a Polysulfide sealer
> supplied by Morton International.  Anyone use this stuff?  How do you do
> the sealing of the top / bottom skin (the last one to seal the tank
> closed)?
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Ian D.S. Douglas                   
> COZY MKIV #0069 (Building strakes)

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: COZY: Re: Fuel compatibility
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:57:01 -0500

Dear Cozy Builders,
I don't know what more I can say than I think that all of the epoxies
approved for composite aircraft construction are insoluble in aviation
fuel. If someone is talking about fuels whose composition is unknown or
fuels yet to be developed, I guess someone is going to have to define what
these fuels are or what they will contain, and then we will have to run
tests. Rego Burger has written to me that he tested 2427 in auto fuel in SA
which is very rich in alcohol, and noticed no gumminess after 2 years
exposure. Someone else (I didn't save the e-mail) watched the installation
of one or more very large underground storage tanks for auto fuel and they
were made of epoxy-fiberglass. 
Best regards,
Nat

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Skins 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:13:27 -0500

Larry,
The extra ply of glass on top of the strake is to make it more difficult
(won't prevent) to dent from knees or other localized loads. UND is better
than BIAX, because the filaments are straight in UND. Two layers of UND at
90 degrees is even better. 
Regards,
Nat

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:58:32 -0500

Builders,
We strongly recommend against a common sump (connecting both tanks
together). It destroys the redundancy of two tanks. If something goes wrong
with one tank (a lost gas cap----It happens) it goes wrong with both. A
second factor is that it puts fuel inside the fuselage.
Regards,
Nat

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:58:01 -0500

Dear Builders,
The Long EZ John Denver purchased had a fuel system that was not installed
according to plans. The fuel selector valve was located on the firewall at
the end of a long torque tube. Apparently it worked well for around a
thousand hours, until John Denver bought it. Then he bought the farm. The
fuel system in the Cozy Mark IV plans is pretty much a copy of the Long EZ
plans, which was an improvement over the Varieze, which had a fuel valve on
the firewall at the end of a torque tube. The difference, which we consider
to be an improvement, is that in the Long EZ the fuel valve was in the
front cockpit, which required running the fuel lines all the way forward.
By locating it between the seats, we were able to limit the fuel lines to
only the back seat, while still allowing the pilot to change valve position
by putting his hand directly on the valve. The saying goes, "Learn from the
mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself".
Regards,
Nat

From: "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel caps
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:11:17 -0500

Dear Cozy Builders,
I have been monitoring the discussion on the fuel system design, and I
don't understand what problem it is that you are trying to solve. In the
over 1000 hours I have been flying 4 different canard airplanes with 3
different fuel cap designs, I have lost a cap exactly one time, and that
was when I violated my cardinal rule, and let the line-boy replace the cap.
He didn't understand how to "cinch" it, so he didn't, and he didn't tell
me. The cap popped out of the filler neck as soon as I rotated (it broke
the grounding wire). I don't remember how I noticed it, but I flew around
the patch and landed again. I called the tower, they sent a truck down the
runway and retrieved my cap. I notified the FBO and they replaced
approximately 5 gallons that I lost, and severely repremanded the line-boy.
He knew he didn't cinch it, he just neglected to tell me. 
I always fill my own tanks, because I want to make sure I ground the hose
and nozzle by connecting a wire with alligator clips to the nozzle and to
the grounding wire from the cap into the tank. This prevents a static spark
from igniting the fumes. I also have a fire extinguisher on the shoulder
support for easy reach. Another reason not to let anyone else refuel is to
prevent them from dinging the strake. 
There are some very fine fuel caps by Newton, which are made in England and
which have recently become available. I believe they are stocked by both AS
and Wicks. Eric Westland bought a set at Arlington from the supplier. They
are available in a lockable version which would give you the peace of mind
that no one else would be able to remove or replace a cap, and if you trust
yourself, you should never lose a cap.
If you can believe this, I caught someone at Oshkosh removing one of my
fuel caps to look inside. I wish I had lockable caps.
Regards,
Nat

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 12:57:14 EST
From: "Nick J Ugolini" <njugolini@efdsouth.navfac.navy.mil>
Subject: Re:  COZY: Fuel tanks

>Steve Wright
I think in the long run two separate tanks are more dangerous than one as
accidents from fuel mismanagement are more frequent than accidents from
contaminated gas (check the FAA stats). The safer design may be to have
separate fuel lines from each tank- each with it's own filter so if one 
filter
is clogged then the other filter would pass good gas from a clean tank.<

After flying my LongEZ for the last 180 hours, I find switching tanks to be 
no big deal.  Set the timer and switch.  Maybe a sump would be nice, but I 
find a great deal of comfort in knowing if I should have a problem with one 
tank I have a reserve (the other tank).  I didn't properly secure one of my 
fuel caps, and only lost about 2 gal.  The safety chain kept the cap with 
the plane and my paint was undamaged.  

Contamination of the fuel filter is a concern of mine.  The weak link in 
our propulsion in my opinion is the fuel system and the prop.  Dual mags, 
dual plugs, dual radios, dual everything and one filter.  My carb has a 
backup, an electric primer system with four sprayers (thx Jack W.), BUT 
what if the filter clogs or leaks?  Lawn dart.

I thing the idea of dual fuel filters is great!   I will plan to do install 
them on my cozy.  

Now if I could only do something about a singular prop.


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 10:08:43 EDT
From: "Nick J Ugolini" <njugolini@efdsouth.navfac.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel flap

After flying my Long for over 300 hrs in the last year, I find the 
discussions about the fuel system to somewhat humorous (especially from 
pilots who have never flown a canard..no insult intended).  

Our planes are so easy to fly (especially with an autopilot and trimmed 
out), that I have to invent things to do to keep me awake (seriously). 
Switching tanks every 20 min gives me something to do .  I WANT to think 
about my fuel (cause of 80%+ of all AC accidents, NTSB), not put a selector 
on 'Both' and forget about fuel levels.

The Long, Cozy's and Mark VI all have essentially the same fuel system. 
They are simple, work well and after having one of my fuel caps come off in 
flight, function safely as intended.

Keep the system simple and as designed.  It has been proven on hundreds of 
planes and works well.....
-------------
Original Text
From: "bil kleb" <w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>, on 6/24/98 9:34 AM:
David Domeier wrote:
> 
> The plan system works.  It has since Burt invented it over 20 years ago.
> ...so my point is, why spend a lot of time and money reinventing a wheel
> that already goes 'round pretty well without squeaks.

burt certainly wouldn't want to hear this kind of talk, because if he had
heeded such reasoning of "it ain't broke, don't fix it", there never would
have been a variviggen, etc.

-- 
bil <mailto:w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>

From: "norm" <norm.doty%worldnet.att.net@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:12:58 -0400

duh have you ever had a flap on your auto gas tank fail? I haven't, and I
fill up 3 or more times a week, and my car is a 1985, and what does his
flight experience have to do with anything? good engineering is just that,
flight experience doesn't come into it. and what does losing an engine have
to do with the fuel cap? yes we will lose fuel and after enough goes yes the
engine flames out, but if your checking your instruments as you fly (highly
recommended) you would see the fuel level dropping and you should land and
find out the cause, assuming you follow standard flight rules, as well as
changing to the tank thats not losing fuel. also assuming your tanks aren't
shared.
nats and the others are right "KISS" keep it simple stupid.

-----Original Message-----
From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com <cdenk@ix.netcom.com>
To: atlasyts@idt.net <atlasyts@idt.net>; burgerr@telkom.co.za
<burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Cc: cozy_builders@canard.com <cozy_builders@canard.com>
Date: Friday, June 19, 1998 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design


>On 06/19/98 19:41:12 you wrote:
>>
>>I have been thinking: How about internal spring loaded flap like the
>>automobile fill up receptacle ? I am sure this arrangement will greatly
>>reduce fuel loss if your fuel cap departs.
>>Bulent
>>
>>
>
>More weight, more things to go wrong, whats your flying experience, have
you ever lost an engine?
>
>


Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:15:43 -0800
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Hey Phil. Congrats on getting closer to completion! I did my strakes not
too long ago. They represented more potential for errors than any other
part of the process.
 1 layer of bid is to allow you to bend the leading edge area of strakes.
As I recall, after you have done the other steps, added ribs, you follow
up with added glass for the bottom inside surface. I think....most of
those brain cells are dead already.
In case you missed these suggestions, make sure you attach wing at key
points to assure strake leading edge and outermost rib aligns with wing.
The strake construct method in plans are very sensitive to measure
methods.
 Use flange method of sealing top of tank to ribs (archives). Even then I
had problem with gap between ribs and top (perfect fit prior to adding
flox to flanges). Watch out for that leading edge sag between ribs(score
thorough and parallel).
Good luck.

-al wick
71% comp. Cozy MkIV with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit.


On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:18:39 -0500 "Johnson, Phillip"
<phillip.johnson@lmco.com> writes:
>I've finally managed to complete my hanger/workshop and so my bird in
>now out of the basement and all the components are ready for final
>assembly. The spar is installed and the canopy / turtle back is on,
>consoles and controls are installed. Only the strakes remain. When
>reading the directions for this chapter it appears that the inner skin
>for the strake is a single ply of BID likewise the ribs and baffles 
>are
>only single plies of BID. Is this correct or am I missing something? 
>The
>strakes are quoted as being structural members but a single ply seems 
>a
>little light in the strength department. With  potentially 150 lbs. of
>fuel per side, and a few G's, the lower skin is going to try to dish 
>out
>putting the internal skin into compression which we all know is not 
>its
>most favourite mode. Am I just being over sensitive?
>
>The second point is that the plans call for all joints to be made with
>micro but the drawings show flox. I am assuming flox but again am I
>missing something?
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
>Ottawa,			(613) 599 3280 ext. 441 or 232
>Ontario,			Cozy MKIV RG  #30
>Canada.		Subaru EG33
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:02:02 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel Breather pipes
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Howdy Rego.
I place those foam ear plugs in all my vent tubes and other openings.

-al wick
77% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now have to sand, spend, sand.

On Fri, 29 May 1998 11:37:19 +0200 Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
writes:

>I'm now giving attention to making my engine mount, while working on
>some bits in the firewall area I noticed something strange sticking out
>of one of the fuel breather pipes.
>It was MUD.
>
>
>Rego Burger
>CZ#139
>Registered as "Fish Eagle"
>ZU-BNH
>Target ENGINE MOUNT to be on by JULY.
>
>

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:40:15 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Skins
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

I think the problem is due to knees and knuckles. Local effect only. I
would expect no difference related to fiber orientation and fuse. Others
recommend more layers than the manual. I think for good reason.
Starting to look like a plane yet? 
-al wick
78% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now have to sand, spend, sand.

On Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:41:58 -0400 "Johnson, Phillip"
<phillip.johnson@lmco.com> writes:
>that
>it is there to give additional strength for kneeling etc. Surely the
>best fibre orientation would be perpendicular to the fuselage axis. 
>This
>would give the maximum strength for the bending configuration
>encountered with kneeling on the strake. Has anyone else had thoughts 
>on
>this?
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Phillip Johnson	Tel	(613) 253 2229 (H)
Canada.		Subaru EG33
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:30:00 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:55:45 -0500  Epplin John A
<EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com> writes:
>I am in the process of building the strakes.  The fuel window has some
good
>features, it will always work, cannot get any simpler etc.  However it
is
>hard to see, somewhat inconvenient especially in the dark.  I would like
to
>install some sort of remote reading system, have been looking at the
>capacitance senders offered by Wicks.  Several questions:
>	Has anyone installed these in the Cozy strakes?
>	Is there a reason not to use such a system?

Rephrased, is the risk of running out of fuel greater than the risk
related to modifying my plane? 

>	Is there a better systems available?

Glad to hear you want to improve the system. Considering that fuel
exhaustion is one of the most common causes for forced landings. Our
nature is to overlook passive gages in back seat, so adding an active
gage will greatly reduce chance of problem.
Probably the simplest thing you can do is add a thermal resistor to fuel
tank. These are the devices that glow on your car dash when tank starts
to get low. There are millions of them out there. All you need is this 1
cu. in. size resistor out of old auto tank, a normal resistor, a light
bulb. I added this to my strakes and ran the wires through the vent tube.
I used oversize tube to make sure I didn't impact the venting. Results in
no added penetration of firewall.
Additionally, if you use one of these thermal resistors from auto, it
will tell you if you have water in your tank. Assuming you have placed
the device near the low point in tank.
So I consider this system better. $5 price, senses water and/ or low
fuel, millions out there in use.

I probably should mention that I also added the analog gages from auto
fuel tank, so I also will accurately know how much fuel I have in each
tank. My computer will monitor these inputs, and make intelligent
decisions. Like telling me "time to switch tanks", "you have 1 hour
reserve fuel", "abnormal fuel consumption rate, fuel cap left off?", etc.

At the very least, I would recommend using the larger diam vent tubes, so
you can upgrade to sophisticated system in the future w/o risk or hassle.

-al wick

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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:25:13 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

What an excellent suggestion Bulent. No reason to recreate the wheel, or
use square wheels. I'll check it out when it comes time to cut out my
fuel cap holes.
Thanks!
By the way, I just finalized my engine mount design. Subaru 2.5 liter
fits stock Cozy. No mods to engine covers needed. No significant mods to
engine needed either.

-al wick
79% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sand, spend, sand.

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:41:12 +0000 Bulent <atlasyts@idt.net> writes:
>I have been thinking: How about internal spring loaded flap like the
>automobile fill up receptacle ? I am sure this arrangement will 
>greatly
>reduce fuel loss if your fuel cap departs.
>Bulent
>

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Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:07:47 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)


It may be stretchin it a bit to assume that "mods to fuel sys" is the
cause for Denver crash. I understand there were 5 causes for his demise.
 - Departing airport with insufficient fuel.
 - Lack of pilot familiarity with craft.
 - Fuel valve location (speculating that he caused plane to descend when
messing with selector).
 - Flying at low altitude.
 - Crude fuel management system that requires pilot to notice low fuel
condition.
It MAY be true that he would be alive if his fuel sys did NOT require
switching tanks. Think about it.
Probably a change to any one of the five would have saved the guy. I
agree we want to learn from others mistakes. Also learn from successes.
Very effective technique to evaluate changes is to do FMEA for each idea.
Failure Modes and Effects Analysis. This discipline forces you to
consider the new potential failures as result of design change. It works
well. All the aircraft and auto mfgs.use this method.
Personally feel Bulent's idea of using internal fuel cap flap is
brilliant. At least in concept. Expecting a pilot to always notice a
loose fuel cap is not reliable. Making the aircraft unaffected by missing
cap is very effective. The difference between these two approaches may be
a dramatic reduction in probability of catastrophic fuel loss. Assuming
the cap flap design is effective and doesn't increase risk of other
failures. Worth considering anyway.

Regards
-al wick

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:34:36 -0700
Subject: COZY: Re: COZY---Stagger EZ fuel system
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Hi Steve. My business experience focused on understanding the nature of
success and the patterns to failure. Since you ask for input, let me
speculate:
I suspect that failures related to having to switch tanks are the highest
risk with the stock system. This because over each of the hundreds of
hours, you are relying on person to remember to switch tanks. I would
include inadvertent switch to off and wrong tank in this failure mode.
Your eliminating the switching then probably greatly reduces the highest
risk (opinion). Very good.
I estimate that loss of fuel cap represents the second highest
probability of occurrence. You are half as likely to experience that
failure, since you have only 1 cap. Great!
Your use of valves also MAY reduce the effect of lost fuel cap. However,
I discount this as my experience with such valves is that they are
probable to not function (related to foreign material, unexpected
resistance to movement). Since you usually have no way to verify valve
function, once they fail, they stay in the open condition. So, years
later, when you need the valve action, it doesn't work. If you had a way
to verify valve operation before each flight, I would change my opinion.
Probably the most important fact is that MOST failures of systems are
related to change. Each change includes new, unknown, untested failure
modes. As an example, our first flight with any fuel sys is THE most
dangerous. The entire plane is considered a sys change. Debris from
drilling those fuel caps is a biggy. But it is a 1 time risk, not a
continuous risk like having to change tanks each time you fly.
The ol' catch 22 is that resistance to change is also a primary cause for
failure. Particularly business failures.

I suspect many features of your sys have significant merit. But be real
cautious in testing, since you have a large number of unknowns.
Lot's of speculation, other facets I didn't mention. Thanks for sharing.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sand, spend, sand.

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:18:49 -0700
Subject: COZY: Re: Fuel flap
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

You're talking about my field of study over many years, can't help but
comment. I would certainly agree that Burt's fuel system can be described
as "adequate". But I would describe our stock fuel systems as passive
systems that need periodic attention. "Periodic attention" includes
activities like dipping tanks before each flight, remembering to check
tightness of fuel caps, remembering to switch tanks at intervals. 
Our fuel systems are passive, because they don't tell you when they are
getting low, consuming at higher rate (leak),  fuel selector has been
nudged,  fuel line was pinched from back seat cargo(read ntsb), etc. With
the number of people on our list, we probably have quite a few who have
had incidents related to the above failure causes. Not all will admit it.
Out of the 60 people at my EAA group, there were around 5 that admitted
it. One guy had forced landings twice. Most of these guys are flying or
building RV's, so you're right to assume they aren't too bright :-).
We're moving into a new century. We don't have to put up with passive
systems anymore. Clearly John Denver would be alive if he had just dipped
his tanks and made the correct no-go decision then. Maybe he thought he
saw fuel in those translucent passive gages? Any of you aware how we see
what we expect? Hopefully you agree that he and others would be alive if
they had an active system that spoke into headset "you only have 30
minutes of fuel left", "you need to switch tanks", "you forgot to put
gear down", "your exhaust temp on #4 just climbed 5 degrees above normal
for these flight conditions".
Our fuel and other detection, passive systems are real crude and
ineffective. The closer we move to active systems, the better. Simple
fuel gages certainly are a good step, they aren't active, but certainly
less likely to  be overlooked. Likewise, altering the loose fuel cap
effect by adding a well designed flap, can be very good stuff.
I've been real fortunate that my work experience exposed me to latest
technologies and related. C'mon up to Arlington next year and I'll show
you what can be accomplished using artificial intellegence. It's cheap,
lite, reliable, powerful. 

regards
-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:57:47 -0400 David Domeier <david010@earthlink.net>
writes:

>    The plan system works.  It has since Burt invented it over 20 years
ago.
>
>    I know of at least 3 accidents caused by guys changing the system,
>so my point is, why spend a lot of time and money reinventing a wheel
>that already goes 'round pretty well without squeaks.
>
>    This talk about gettingconfused about where the fuel selector is or
>forgetting to properly position it is nonsense.  If a guy is smart
>enough to select the Cozy as his choice of airplanes and then build it,
>he surely has the intelligence to manage this simple fuel system.  I'm
>absolutely certain you could handle it.
>

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:02:44 -0700
Subject: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

The discussion about fuel flap inspired this idea. What do you think? 
Instead of using that triangle shaped sheet metal to anchor your fuel cap
to, what about making it a cone instead? When cap falls off, it pulls
cone into fuel hole and seals most of the gas from leaking. You'd have to
design cone so it cannot cover your fuel inlet if it fell off. Maybe a
sphere would be better.
Now the same component eliminates cap falling into prop, omitted cap, and
fuel loss upon cap loss. Eh? Simple.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:16:45 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

If a cone was the best approach, you could make it out of sheet metal and
drill it for rivet (don't rivet yet). Now install your bead chain at the
pointy end (like the technical terms?:-). Collapse the cone and insert
into fuel tank, then pop rivet so that it won't collapse.
Now test it by yanking it's chain and seeing if it always seals the hole.
To assure it can't plug your fuel inlet, make the cone with (5) 1/4"
holes around the perimeter. Thus, if you deliberately place the cone over
inlet, fuel still passes. Yet if you pull cone into cap hole, those 5
holes are below the opening, so it will seal the hole.
I think we have something here. We are just modifying the retainer
design. It now both retains and seals. I think we pass the KISS test,
weight difference is trivial, and we have not added any new potential
failure modes. Just need to make one to verify it really does seal fuel
hole, that you can rivet it.
Now is a good time to pick this idea apart. I like it.

I agree with Paul, thanks to Bulent for coming up with original idea.
Good group design!  See ascii art below.

       chain ->      o
                         o
                         o
                       /   \
     cone->      /       \
                   /           \
holes->      /   0   0  0  \
               /-------------------\



-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:21:59 -0700 michael amick <mkamick@WANS.net>
writes:
>ok How wrote:
>> 
>> Instead of using that triangle shaped sheet metal to anchor your 
>fuel cap
>> to, what about making it a cone instead? 
>
>The tiangle is designed to be fitted into the tank after the caps are
>installed.
>
>How do you get the cone into the tank Mr. OK HOW?
>
>Michael Amick
>

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:44:29 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Excellent criticism, odds of success probably better if cone made of thin
gage material. Thin gage more likely to conform to surface it contacts.
Obviously we need to test. Can probably do static test.
Included angle of cone may make difference too. Maybe 120 degree included
angle would keep cone relatively centered, as the peak of cone would be
below the opening. Hole from missing cap will produce vacuum. Cone may be
eager to seal it. Dunno.
It would be nice to seal hole completely, but just reducing rate of fuel
loss is a success over current design.

Maybe we can get someone with fuel caps to test concept on their plane
(on the ground). I don't have holes in my strakes (unless you count
pinholes).

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:55:11 -0500 "Fugate, Richard D." <fugate@mayo.edu>
writes:
>Hmmm... If the cone isn't being pulled exactly vertical into the hole 
>I
>don't think you will get any type of seal.  The cross section of the
>cone at any type of angle will be an ellipse.  Would seem like the
>violent thrashing/tugging of a fuel cap in the airstream would keep 
>any
>cone tilted.  A sphere might provide a seal but I still think a
>thrashing cap would cause it to bob too.
>
>Just my simple thoughts at work.
>Richard D. Fugate
>Communication Technology Services
>Mayo Foundation
>fugate@mayo.edu
>507-284-8256
>

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:29:31 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Need someone willing to taxi test the concept.
 If it doesn't work, guess we'll have to add drag chutes to gas cap :-).
 Better yet, we could add instructions for operator to fly inverted if
cap falls off :-). Ha!
 We could buy gas caps that work, instead of lazy ones.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:54:07 -0500 (CDT) cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes:
>I understand the if the cap comes off, it doesn't pull tight, but is 
>lazy. 
>
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:03:23 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Always valuable to question whether there really is a "problem" Randy.
Based upon second hand responses, looks like it's for real.

JD offered another good solution: Place a door over the fuel fill
location. Door has limit switch which notifies pilot if not closed.
Mechanically door/cap is designed so you can't close door unless cap in
place and locked. May be desirable to place fuel fill location elsewhere.
Doesn't quite fit the KISS requirement, but holds great merit in my
opinion. Eliminates the cause, instead of trying to alter the effect.
Always worth considering.

Keep ideas and critique coming! Who's going to volunteer to test? I
propose making cone out of .016 2024. I have a huge sheet of that stuff
left over from building process. Use one of those noisy leafblowers to
static test. Lay mat on top of wing and blow cap off. Try different
angles of attack, different cone included angle, different distance of
blower to cap.
I know! Why doesn't someone just loan me their plane for a week (don't
record hour meter). I'll be HAPPY to test it for you;-)

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:15:10 -0400 (EDT) "Randy Smith"
<randys@majik35.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> writes:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I'm having trouble understanding the need for the cone/flap/ball. What
>I understand is that a cap is left off (or comes off) and we go flying.
>The low pressure on top of the wing creates a vacuum/suction on the
>surface of the fuel in the tank.  How does this cause the fuel to be
>sucked out of the hole?
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:14:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario? 
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

All of my limit switches use ground wires only. No power. Logic is open=
off, grounded= on. Didn't even think someone would run power thru those
puppies, but you are right, some people will.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Fri, 26 Jun 98 11:33:01 -0600 lschuler@cellular.uscc.com writes:

>I'd be more than a bit leary of putting 'any' kind of switch in an 
>area 
>where air and fuel/vapors are at the same place at the same time.
>
>Swithces create arcs!  Tiptoe through that brier patch very carefully.
>
>Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500
>lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
>
>
>
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:11:35 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel caps
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

I interpret your statement to be " I had one such failure in the past.
Since adopting policy of not letting anyone else fuel plane I have had no
more failures.  I therefore conclude that no changes should be made to
design."

 If you conclude existing design is ok, great! Don't change it. But then
you make the statement that you noticed someone messing with your fuel
cap. You still conclude no one should consider any type of change to
eliminate the EFFECT of such a failure? You assume everyone using Cozy
will always fuel it themselves? Everyone will notice the loose cap?
So far the group has come up with 4 alternatives which may eliminated the
effect of a loose cap(must test to prove). Probably at least two of the
solutions include no significant potential negatives. 
The nature of failure is that any system which requires the operator to
notice things, or do something the same every time, has a higher
probability of failure. Why? Because people get distracted, see things
that aren't there, not see things that occur. I could give example after
example. I have studied this for my occupation and know the patterns
well. Relying on detecting things doesn't work. People don't do things
the same every time. They get complacent "It was ok the last 50 times,
I'll skip it this time".

Now maybe Nat can look at the crash scene and say "that idiot, he should
have checked his cap."  You would be correct. But your competitor can
say" That idiot, he should have bought my plans which are insensitive to
cap retention". Your competitor would be more right. 

All failures have multiple causes and solutions. Our nature is to pick
the cause and solution we are familiar with. Not the best one.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:11:17 -0500 "Nat Puffer" <cozy@extremezone.com>
writes:
>Dear Cozy Builders,
>I have been monitoring the discussion on the fuel system design, and I
>don't understand what problem it is that you are trying to solve. In the
>over 1000 hours I have been flying 4 different canard airplanes with 3
>different fuel cap designs, I have lost a cap exactly one time, and that
>was when I violated my cardinal rule, and let the line-boy replace the
cap.
>He didn't understand how to "cinch" it, so he didn't, and he didn't tell
>me. The cap popped out of the filler neck as soon as I rotated (it broke
>the grounding wire). I don't remember how I noticed it, but I flew
around
>the patch and landed again. I called the tower, they sent a truck down
the
>runway and retrieved my cap. I notified the FBO and they replaced
>approximately 5 gallons that I lost, and severely repremanded the
line-boy.
>He knew he didn't cinch it, he just neglected to tell me. 
>I always fill my own tanks, because I want to make sure I ground the
hose
>and nozzle by connecting a wire with alligator clips to the nozzle and
to
>the grounding wire from the cap into the tank. This prevents a static
spark
>from igniting the fumes. I also have a fire extinguisher on the shoulder
>support for easy reach. Another reason not to let anyone else refuel is
to
>prevent them from dinging the strake. 
>There are some very fine fuel caps by Newton, which are made in England
and
>which have recently become available. I believe they are stocked by both
AS
>and Wicks. Eric Westland bought a set at Arlington from the supplier.
They
>are available in a lockable version which would give you the peace of
mind
>that no one else would be able to remove or replace a cap, and if you
trust
>yourself, you should never lose a cap.
>If you can believe this, I caught someone at Oshkosh removing one of my
>fuel caps to look inside. I wish I had lockable caps.
>Regards,
>Nat
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:34:15 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

Shees, can't get away with anything. Optically coupled, 14mA max.
Potential is trivial.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:01:31 -0500 Tom Brusehaver <tgb@cozy.netco.com>
writes:

>Ah, check you schematic, the only way a switch works is if one side
>has a higher potential than the other side.  If you have both sides
>grounded, you get nothing.  
>
>If you have a small pull up resistor (or the circuit you are
>connecting to has an internal one) then you got voltage.  
>
>(cheesy ascii art showing what I mean)
>
>  grounded      small
>    side       voltage
>
>            /           |\
>  ---------/ o----------| >-------
>  |                     |/
> ---
>  -                   Buffer
>                    (even CMOS)
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:49:22 -0700
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

FWIW, there are millions of fuel tanks out there that contain a thermal
resistor. This puppy literally sizzles when immersed in fuel! If your car
has a "low fuel" light, that device is probably in there. Interesting eh?

However, I wouldn't use that as excuse to have power near fuel. No reason
to. Too many other options.
Seems our discussions have degraded. Enjoyed the brainstorming, but no
reason to push it. Clammin' up.

-al wick
80% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components, now sanding. Expect completion date 4-30-99.

On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:33:13 -0500 (CDT) cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes:
>Al Wick writes<14ma>
>True IF, the chip or associated wiring doesn't develope a short. The 
>only way I know to ensure no 
>spark, would be all wiring away from anything hot (anything over next 
>to zero volts) and power with 
>a power supply so small that there can't be a spark, say a small watch 
>battery, and certainly not 
>connected to the bird power. If I am current most chips use 5 volts, 
>and some get down to 3 volts.
>But somewhere these wires have to go to a lamp that is visible to the 
>pilot, and unless fiberoptics 
>are used that will put them near other wires.
>
>

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From: "Paul Comte" <pcomte@tcccom.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Yet another fuel design
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:17:54 -0500



>On 06/19/98 19:41:12 you wrote:
>>
>>I have been thinking: How about internal spring loaded flap like the
>>automobile fill up receptacle ? I am sure this arrangement will greatly
>>reduce fuel loss if your fuel cap departs.
>>Bulent
>>
>>
>
>More weight, more things to go wrong, whats your flying experience, have
you ever lost an engine?
>carl denk
>

Frankly I thought this is a nice idea especially if it could help reduce
both lost cap fuel evacuation and the scale of a fueling flash fire.

But to be certain, what for some is an improvement is to others "Gilding the
Lilly"...

I can't think of anything heavier and more usless in an airplane as an
oversize ego.


Paul



From: "Paul Comte" <pcomte@tcccom.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:42:42 -0500

ok How <alwick@juno.com>  wrote:

>to, what about making it a cone instead?

Way to go Wick!

So one could drop the plug with the safety chain attached into the =
strake
before closing?  Then fish it out and attach it to the cap after =
installing
the fueling port....

So for anyone with the unfortunate experience of their cap flying on the
safety chain:  Did the cap pull straight back & tight?

This sounds like a great idea, I'm glad we kept this string going.  =
Thanks
to Bulent too for opening it up.

Best Regards,
Paul Comte

From: "Paul Comte" <pcomte@tcccom.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario? 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:24:58 -0500

Reed switch and magnet.   Magnet, if strong enough could be bid into place.

No exposed moving parts...

 old family recipe  ;-)

Larry Schuler wrote:


>
>FWW
>I'd be more than a bit leary of putting 'any' kind of switch in an area
>where air and fuel/vapors are at the same place at the same time.
>
>Swithces create arcs!  Tiptoe through that brier patch very carefully.
>
>Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500
>lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
>
>
>
>



Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:49:11 -0400
From: Paul Krasa <p.w.krasa@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel quantity gauge

Speaking about strakes and fuel tanks, I saw a really neat mod which opens
up more baggage/room in the back seat.  change the standard configuration
such that the back wall of the baggage compartment angles to the side of
the fuel tank running under the longeron.  Then make the dead area on the
out board end of the strake fuel tank.  The effect according to the person
flying the airplane is no change in CG, about the same amount of fuel, and
added area in the aircraft.


			Strake to Wing junction
                   ----------------
                  /               |
                 /                |
                /                 |
               /                  |
              /                   |
             /    Fuel Tank       |
            /                     |
           /                      |
          /                       |
         /                        |
        /----------------\        |
                          \       |
                           \      | 
           Baggage          \     |
              Compartment    \    |
                              \   |
         --------------------------

From: "Paul Stowitts" <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: COZY: Fw: Water collection in strakes
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:53:12 -0800

I sent this to Nat but have not received a reply yet.  Does anyone else
have any comments?  Thanks.

----------
> From: Paul Stowitts <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: natp@cozyaircraft.com
> Subject: Water collection in strakes
> Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:35 PM
> 
> Nat,  I was asked a question the other day that I could not answer.  In
the
> strake, there are two "pockets" where water could collect while nose
down. 
> These are located at the point where BAB, B33, DB & R33 meet.  Since the
> bottom openings on the baffles are located 2" in from the ends of the
> baffles, the intersections of BAB/B33 and B33/DB could potentially keep
> water from reaching the drain.  Is this a potential problem?  Thanks.
> 
> Paul Stowitts
> Cozy Mark IV #200

From: "Paul Stowitts" <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:57:20 -0700

I, too, am installing the capacitance fuel sensors.  I located them on the
aft wall of the strake storage area.  I am presently pressure checking the
fuel tanks and I realized that the sensors need to be mounted with sealant.
 Does anyone have a particular sealant that would fit the bill here?

BTW, before I glassed the mounting plates, I filled three of the bolt holes
with wax and used the other two to hold the sensor on the plate to make
sure I mounted it properly.  After setting it in place with 5 minute epoxy,
I removed the sensor and filled the two empty holes with grease.  I then
floxed the edges and glassed/peel plied the plate.  After cure I very
carefully drilled the glass (the plate is not very thick and there aren't
many threads) and used an xacto knife to clean up the hole.  To remove the
wax, a bottom tap would work but I didn't have one so I used a bolt with a
notch cut in the end.


From: "Paul Stowitts" <CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Tank Testing
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:40:35 -0700

I ran into an interesting situation when it was time to pressure test my
tanks.  I plugged all the outlets, set the altimeter to 1500' and blew air
in until the altimeter read zero.  The next day the first tank reading was
-900' and the second tank reading was -440'.  I think the difference was
caused by putting the air into the tank in the evening when it was cool and
then reading the altimeter after it had a chance to heat up.  Am I thinking
straight?  Any other thoughts?

Another thing.  Every time I put air into either tank, the altimeter
immediately starts showing a decrease in pressure and then stabilizes
around 100 - 150'.  I have to continue adding air until it stabilizes.  Is
this the tank adjusting to the pressure?  I know it's not a leak since it
does stop eventually.

Paul Stowitts
Cozy Mark IV #200

Subject: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:15:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Randy Smith" <randys@majik35.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>

Hi everyone,

I'm having trouble understanding the need for the cone/flap/ball.  What
I understand is that a cap is left off (or comes off) and we go flying.
The low pressure on top of the wing creates a vacuum/suction on the
surface of the fuel in the tank.  How does this cause the fuel to be
sucked out of the hole?

What I can perhaps see happening is:  (answer true or false)

A.  The vent line will bubble air through the fuel and out of the hole.

B.  If the fuel selector is selecting the now open tank, fuel flow to
engine _could_ be reduced/shut off.

C.  If the fuel selector is selecting the other tank, We fly around with
a low pressure area on top of the fuel, bubbling air through the vent line
and banging (or perhaps not) the fuel cap against the strake.

What am I missing?

-Randy "I'll probably add a spring loaded flap" Smith

--* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -*   Table SOLD! Cozy MkIV on hold      |    _    |
NCR General Purpose Computing  Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM     |---( )---|
Global Support Center          Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648    ___o/o\o___
West Columbia, SC 29170        "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC

Subject: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:16:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Randy Smith" <randys@majik35.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>


People,

Ok, I think I have been educated on the subject enough to visualize
it.  I did not consider that a vortex could/would form and create a
mini-tornado in the tank acting like a siphon.   I was trying to
visualize a 2 litre soda bottle with some liquid at the bottom and a
vacuum on the top.  My brain thinks that the fluid will stay on the
bottom of the bottle.  But when you add a tornado (or waterspout as
they are called when over water) you create a _localized_ lower
pressure and the fluid flows up the pipes made of swirling air.

Is this more representative of what goes on?

(If so, perhaps we need a doppler radar to detect the tornado and... :-))

Thanks for the responses. 

-Randy "learning all the time" Smith

--* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -*   Table SOLD! Cozy MkIV on hold      |    _    |
NCR General Purpose Computing  Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM     |---( )---|
Global Support Center          Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648    ___o/o\o___
West Columbia, SC 29170        "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC

Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:26:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Randy Smith" <randys@majik35.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>

Rego writes:
> Try a simple experiment with a straw in a glass of water, My son
> "spray-paints" water colours like this. Cut the straw 3/4 through, bend
> it 90 deg. dip the one end in water and blow across the open end...
> change the angle and observe the vol. of spray changing. Max vol. for
> the same pressure is obtained at 90 deg.

This requires a tube or "pathway" for the fluid to travel that only
sees the induced low pressure.  Thus the higher pressure on the surface
of the liquid outside the tube forces liquid up the tube.  I do not
understand how the fuel inside the tank can flow out without a similar
mechanism.  If a vortex forms, then yes, I can see that working.

I know I'm beating a dead horse.  However the solutions offered to date
concentrate on closing the opening by various means.  I wanted to
explore the mechanism by which the fuel gets sucked out and perhaps
think of a way to prevent the vortex via shape and position of the
filler hole.  Without having to add anything.  Granted, perhaps the
best solution to preventing the vortex is to close off the opening. :-)

-Randy Smith

--* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -*   Table SOLD! Cozy MkIV on hold      |    _    |
NCR General Purpose Computing  Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM     |---( )---|
Global Support Center          Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648    ___o/o\o___
West Columbia, SC 29170        "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 20:24:34 +0200
From: Rego and Noleen Burger <rnb@intekom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Yet another fuel design

Carl is right,
>>NOT! Brainstorming in the name of SAFETY! Get modern, brainstorming, throwing 
ideas onto the table for discussion, then discarding is a very excepted 
practice. The opposite is a dictator for a boss.<<<

Give it much thought before you change things and don't be put off by
other opinions, learn from them.... when someone says they would not do
something it is based on their combo of knowledge vs. faith in what they
are doing. Some rush in where angel's fear to tread. Many are over
cautious, and there is nothing wrong with that, some live on the edge of
life and death and that gives me the creeps.
Make a list of pros and cons and choose the BEST.
-- 
Rego Burger
CZ4#139 South Africa 
Web:http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm 
Work e-mail, mailto:burgerr@telkom.co.za

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:53:07 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Water collection in strakes

My, my,........ I looked at this potential aswell. What I figured was
the technique to be used when checking for water and DIRT.... to reduce
this risk :
Proposed method:
The strakes slope slightly toward the fuselage when up and level..so the
best thing to do is to lift the nose to the level position for a while,
heavy water an dirt will move toward the fuselage. Then park nose down
again and it will settle in the "lowest point" area where the drains
are.

This is vital if the craft has been standing idle for a while!
Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 06:07:56 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Resistant Foams

PVC being closed-cell is the best for fuel tank cores.
Unless cracked no fuel will get through. What I found when pressure
testing my tank (many times) were leaks in the slits cut for bending the
L.E. to shape...I never filled them well enough with micro - slurry.
Those who are getting to this stage take the warning , fill the slits
liberally with micro/slurry for a good seal.

Glass cloth should also be "wetter" or else the filaments just act like
straws sucking up the fuel. Looking back now I could have done a better
job on the strakes, but I still had it in my mind to save on weight. I
think an extra lb. or two on the strakes is worth it compared with the
pain of sealing the leaks. 


Happy Building.

Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:43:04 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Garage Door

A person wrote:
snip..
>>>>>>As it seems that the wing starkes do not offer any structural
support in
both lift and drag forces. I believe that it would be safe to make
either
both or one of the strakes removable.<<<<<<<<

I feel the strakes are a major component in providing torsional ridged
to the main spar.... if the strake is not attached firmly to the
fuselage sides the main spar would twist. The other problem is sealing
the fuel tank between the fuselage and strake... The strake and spar
form a monocoque structure.

I feel it is easier to modify the garage doors after all they stay on
the ground.
_________________________________________________
Visit South Africa, after an extended holiday return with a pilots
licence.
Flight Training:  http://home.intekom.com/glen/avai/progress.htm


Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:40:49 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Aeropoxy and Fuel cells

Howard is correct,

PVC is a closed cell...so unless it had a crack in it no fuel will pass
the first layer of cells...these should be filled with micro when the
skins were applied anyway. Again I had samples pf the PVC in auto fuel 
for 2 yrs...NO signs of dissolving.

The biggest problem with composite tanks is cleaning them before putting
into service.
Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:37:19 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Breather pipes

Hi all,
Nice to be back on-line again.

I'm now giving attention to making my engine mount, while working on
some bits in the firewall area I noticed something strange sticking out
of one of the fuel breather pipes.
It was MUD.

Yes one of natures creatures decided to make a nest or something in
it...talk about pre-flight (completion) checks.
I suspect it was a hornet, fellow builder from JHB Chris van Hoof found
a nest under my shoulder brace on one visit. I just hope these creatures
did not use the breather pipe as a tunnel into the TANK and make a big
nest inside there? For now I have taken a hose and interconnected the
two pipes to stop these guys trying again... if you are in a hornet area
I suggest the same with all pipes into the tanks.


Rego Burger
CZ#139
Registered as "Fish Eagle"
ZU-BNH
Target ENGINE MOUNT to be on by JULY.


Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:15:10 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Yet another fuel design

Guys I'm all for innovation provided it's has safety at heart, or at
least reduces risk.
Sure if you don't want a flying accident, never fly but still all my
bravery of my early flight training days have been confronted with the
odd wake up call, back to that "old bold" story again...:-) 

Incident:
 I Lost a cap on a production plane about 16 yrs ago... shortly after
 getting my license... not fun.... it was a Cherokee 140.... between the
 gas jockey and I we never secured the cap.(no excuses).. fuel spray
reduced fuel
 level in a minute or two.
 
 Change tank... head for home... landed 3-5 miles faster to avoid wing
 drop on flare with one heavy tank....
 
 Now if the sumps where common I'm not sure how fast the other tank
would
 drain, I guess it is dependant on the size of the connector pipes. I
 prefer the two tank system myself but good luck to the others.
 
 The problem I have found is that aviation in general is so safe that
 many live in a fools paradise, thinking it will never happen to them.
 Why add risks?

DESIGN CHANGE CONSIDERATIONS:
So If you are happy with the off chance of a similar incident it's your
choice .
Risks should be calculated and then be divided by 2 if you are now happy
with it then try it.
ie. weigh up the chances of a switch error vs. continuous feed.
Then the risk of a cap coming off.
I feel if you change to a single sump... add a bolt on device or cap
cover system to ensure your caps CAN NEVER come off, only then MAYBE
have you made an improvement.

Ask yourself what about the old system bugs you, then find a solution to
reduce that risk, rather than change a major thing. e.g. if you are
prone to forgetting to switch tanks... make a low fuel alarm. Or a timer
buzzer that will prompt you to check fuel on a regular basis.

I have a FREDA (It just happens to be my moms name.)check list for
nearing towns or airfields.
Fuel - Tank and Quantity 
Radio - Frequency
Engine - monitor all guages
D.I. - set
Altitude - set QNH and check.





Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:48:35 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Yet another fuel design

More brainstorming on the subject for those that have gone to header
sumps?
a.) How big is this common sump?

Why I ask is for that dreaded engine fire! After shutting off feeder
taps how much fuel will burn up before the fire goes out?
Yet another design consideration.
Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:54:07 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

Just be careful with things that dangle / hang in the tank from the cap.
If you make a cone or even the normal plate try keep it as short as
possible so that when sealed (cap closed) it does not chafe on the
inside bottom skin..... with time it can erode a nice hole from
vibration. 

Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:50:39 +0200
From: Rego Burger <burgerr@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

Fuel being syphoned out of the open cap hole is relative to the airflow
over it, and the CAP position relative to the centre of lift.( max low
pressure area )
On a flat strake like the Eze's the following should happen.
1.) With a positive AOA ( angle of attack ) the cap area is in a
shielded airflow area with little effect.
2.) With a negative AOA the hole is under positive pressure.( air forced
in )
3.) @ 0 deg. AOA the RAF(relative airflow) is perpendicular to the
filler hole... this is the scenario that causes most of the syphoning...
it's like an airbrush, the airflow over the nozzel sucks the paint out
of the bottle below. The vent line may reduce this effect but speed and
angle are the biggest factors that will contribute to how much comes
out.

Try a simple experiment with a straw in a glass of water, My son
"spray-paints" water colours like this. Cut the straw 3/4 through, bend
it 90 deg. dip the one end in water and blow across the open end...
change the angle and observe the vol. of spray changing. Max vol. for
the same pressure is obtained at 90 deg.

Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm
(home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za
RSA

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:09:22 -0400
From: Rob Cherney <cherney@home.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: Fuel Sensors & sealant

At 12:10 PM 6/17/98 -0800, Howard Rogers wrote:
>> Another solution would be some sort of
>>dome over each bolt on the tank side.
>
>        There is, in fact, a standard aircraft part, just for this purpose.
>It is a sealed, domed nutplate that would have to be attatched to your
>mounting ring with flush rivets and the appropriate PRC or equivalent
>sealer.

Click Bond makes a bondable dome nut with a locking internal nut.  Some
even have floating nuts that are somewhat self aligning.  I have made
embedded hard points for wing bolt access covers using these items along
with pieces of G-10 laminate.  E-mail me and I can give you the part numbers.

Rob-
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Robert Cherney                      Home Phone: (410)465-5598     |
|Ellicott City, Maryland                 e-mail: cherney@home.com  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:55:01 -0400
From: Rob Cherney <cherney@home.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel cap scenario? 

At 11:14 AM 6/26/98 -0700, ok How wrote:

>All of my limit switches use ground wires only. No power. Logic is open=
>off, grounded= on. Didn't even think someone would run power thru those
>puppies, but you are right, some people will.

Using the ground lead to complete a circuit (sometimes called "low side
switching") is no guarantee that a spark will not occur.  The electrons
don't care.  Be careful!  What is of importance here is the amount of
current (not voltage) and the impedance of the circuit; this will
determines if a spark is likely.  At any rate, I would not place a switch
anywhere near fuel or fuel vapors.  If I was forced to use a switch near
fuel, I'd use a hermetically sealed unit or I'd consider a solid-state
optical interrupter.

Rob-
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Robert Cherney                      Home Phone: (410)465-5598     |
|Ellicott City, Maryland                 e-mail: cherney@home.com  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:52:28 -0500
From: Robert and Carla Kittler <rkck@mindspring.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel tanks

Hi Steve and All,
>
>	>SWrightFLY wrote:<
>	>Using this valve with the central sump prevents fuel mismanagement
>(see CSA newsletter).  With this system your fuel is either on or off. I
>would like to hear arguments against this system. Why have more than one
>tank????<
>
>	Bird strikes.  A hole in one of the strakes would siphon the fuel out
>of both tanks, but what are the odds of a bird strike (or hole)
>occurring.  Besides, with a simple one way flapper check valve that only
>allows fuel into the sump, a hole in one strake would not be that big of
>a concern of emptying the intact tank.
>	So basically, no argument against :-).
>	With a 3 way valve, one could have ON/OFF/and Reserve.
>
>
>Infinity's Forever,
>
>	JD
How about fuel contamination.  No second choice for a fuel source. One tank
equals a single source failure possibility


From: SBLANKDDS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:53:28 EDT
Subject:  COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

Randy,

  With fuel cap off, the air passes by at high velocity, creating low pressure
on the fuel. This does two things, 1) with less presure, things boil at a
lower temp. The fuel will "boil" at a low temp and evaporate as a vapor.  2)
The other is a venturi effect, the high volume air passing by will cause a
vacuum that will suck liquid gas out.  This is the same principle that a water
bed valve uses to empty the bed. Water from a hose passes through a large
opening in the valve, with a small tube in the stream, this starts pulling the
water out, and the bed empties.    In the plane, this will empty the tank. If
you make the mistake of connecting the tanks, without a valve in the middle,
the low pressure may prevent fuel from leaveing the good tank and getting to
the engine.  
   My suggestion, fuel your own plane, or at minimum, open the cap, visually
check, and close the cap yourself. Don't rely on the line guy, unless he is
flying with you that day!!!

Steve Blank         sblankdds@aol.com

From: SWrightFLY <SWrightFLY@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:14:34 EST
Subject: Re:  COZY: Fuel tanks


In a message dated 1/14/98 5:04:32 PM, rkck@mindspring.com wrote:

<<How about fuel contamination.  No second choice for a fuel source. One tank
equals a single source failure possibility>>

This is a very good point........I once had serious fuel contaminaton in my
Varieze which almost caused an engine failure. The fuel filter was filled with
trash from a contaminated fuel truck. (yes- I drained the sumps prior to
flight but the gas was clean and dry as the trash had not made it to the drain
sump) The engine would run at a low throttle setting which was just enough to
keep me in the air and back to the airport. The EZE has each tank line running
into the central fuel line then from the filter to the engine. Would switching
to the other tank have made things better? No......as the same bad gas was in
it also.I had  a separate reserve tank with good gas but I did not select it
as I was 300' AGL on take off and it would not have made the clogged fuel
filter better but it would not have passed any additional trash to the filter.
I think in the long run two seperate tanks are more dangerous than one as
accidents from fuel mismanagement are more frequent than accidents from
contaminated gas (check the FAA stats). The safer design may be to have
separate fuel lines from each tank- each with it's own filter so if one filter
is clogged then the other filter would pass good gas from a clean tank.
Comments please!
Steve Wright
Wright Aircraft Works LLC

From: SWrightFLY <SWrightFLY@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:16:37 EST
Subject: Re:  Re: COZY: Vance Atkinson's Central fuel sump plans

Several guys ask for the plans info. I found the plans on page 15 of the
January 1993 issue of the CSA newsletter. For you folks who do not have that
issue I will be happy to mail you a copy of the plans. Send me a self
addressed envelope and I will send it to you. 
Steve Wright
Wright Aircraft Works LLC
1400 Robert E. Lee LN
Brentwood, TN 37027 

From: SWrightFLY@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:20:55 EDT
Subject: COZY: Re: COZY---Stagger EZ fuel system

My (finished but not yet flight tested) central sump design is quite unique
and heres what I have............
Both fuel strakes are connected by a rectangle shaped composit "tunnel" which
is 2"x2" and runs from the bottom of the left strake down the inside of the
fuselage and becomes the thigh support for the back seat passenger (on the
left side of the fuselage) then it runs down to the bottom of the fuselage to
the sump then over to the right side of the fuselage then up the side and into
the right fuel strake. Everything runs down hill.  At the low point (center of
the fuselage) of the system I have a on/off valve where the fuel line is
connected and runs thru a filter and fuel pump directly to the carb on the
engine. The valve is spring loaded to full on and has an emergency cut off on
the instrument panel. I can reach and touch the valve in flight to confirm
proper operation (remember my seats are staggered and I can reach behind the
right seat quite easily) I have a drain behind the right seat on the  bottom
right side of the fuselage, the lowest point in the system. What I have is, in
effect,  one large tank that is connected by the "tunnel". At the point of
entry into the tunnel from both strakes is a spring loaded check valves which
I designed and built that allows gas into the tunnel from both sides but not
out of the tunnel. I have a cable that runs from the right valve and is
connected to the one and only gas cap on the left tank. When I take off the
gas cap I pull open the valve on the right side and can pump fuel into the
right side as fast as the gas comes out of the pump handle so both left and
right strakes are filled at one time. When the single fuel cap is installed
the cable it is connected to allows the spring loaded valve on the right side
to close. I have 2 vents per strake,one in the front and one in the back,
running up the inside of the firewall (not the engine side) to the top and 2
vents go down and out the bottom of the fuselage. All 4 vents are connected
(manifold) at the top of the firewall.  If the one and only gas cap comes off
the fuel will continue to feed into the sump from the right strake. I don't
think the left side will drain into the sump due to the vacuum caulsed by the
gas cap not being on. The advantaged of this design (in theory) is as follows
1. Only one fuel cap for easy - quick fueling of both strakes.
2. Safety of the the sump still getting gas if my gas cap comes off in flight.
3. I can't mis-manage the fuel system as the gas is either on or off.
4. No fuel in the cockpit if you consider the sides of the fuel strake not to
be "fuel in the cockpit".
5. No fuel vents on the "hot" side of the firewall that can melt if an engine
compartment fire occurs.
If anyone is still awake at this point .........I would appreciate any and all
criticisms of this design. I can fix any potiental problem at this stage- I'm
open to suggestions and  welcome your input to this design.
Steve Wright
Wright Aircraft Works LLC.............(anyone need a lift?)

From: SWrightFLY@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:14:54 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: Recommended fuel cap mod

The one time I witnessed a fuel cap come off in flight occure while in
formation flight with another Varieze. The cap "slid" back and extended the
full length of the chain. It just sat there and moved up and down a small
amount as fuel gushed out from the tank. He returned for a safe landing. There
were a few marks on the top of the strake made by the cap.I don't think the
force of the cap would have pulled a cone up to the neck of  the tank and
sealed it. I think a tube is needed with a ball in the tube that will be
forced up to the neck and seal the tank. Slots in  the tube will allow for
fueling.
Steve Wright
Wright Aircraft Works LLC 
 (anyone need a lift?)

From: SWrightFLY@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:00:29 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?

In a message dated 98-06-26 08:17:53 EDT, randys@majik35.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
writes:

<< The low pressure on top of the wing creates a vacuum/suction on the
 surface of the fuel in the tank.  How does this cause the fuel to be
 sucked out of the hole? >>

A Varieze has both tanks connected by a T in the fuel line in front of the
firewall. A cap came off the left tank and sucked the fuel from the right tank
into the left tank and out the opening. He had a total of 20 gallons on board
and lost 15 gallons in a period of about 4 to 6 minuets. 

Steve Wright
Wright Aircaft Works LLC

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:38:36 -0500
From: Tom Brusehaver <tgb@cozy.netco.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel flap


>From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)
>Our fuel and other detection, passive systems are real crude and
>ineffective. The closer we move to active systems, the better. 

Be careful.

A bunch of years ago Piper (I think) had something called "magic hand"
that would actively lower the landing gear.  Worked great, most of the
time.  Pilots got passive, and didn't monitor the systems.

I heard a rumor that most insurance companies require that system
disabled.

Most of the time is not good enough for things like fuel systems, and
wing attatchments.  

Be careful.

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:01:31 -0500
From: Tom Brusehaver <tgb@cozy.netco.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?


>All of my limit switches use ground wires only. No power. Logic is open
>off, grounded on. Didn't even think someone would run power thru those
>puppies, but you are right, some people will.

Ah, check you schematic, the only way a switch works is if one side
has a higher potential than the other side.  If you have both sides
grounded, you get nothing.  

If you have a small pull up resistor (or the circuit you are
connecting to has an internal one) then you got voltage.  

(cheesy ascii art showing what I mean)

  grounded      small
    side       voltage

            /           |\
  ---------/ o----------| >-------
  |                     |/
 ---
  -                   Buffer
                    (even CMOS)

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:07:08 -0500
From: Tom Brusehaver <tgb@cozy.netco.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel cap scenario?


>Shees, can't get away with anything. Optically coupled, 14mA max.
>Potential is trivial.

Lots of discussion about this all weekend.

Arcs happen at low current.

In a jacob's ladder, to get a good 4 inch arc (at the top), you need
4000+ volts.  To generate this most people use a step up transformer,
converting 110V (wall volts) up to 4000 (1:40), but since there is no
free lunch, the current goes down about an equal amount (efficencies
would have us believing less current).  I think the last time I messed
with a jacobs ladder, I was getting 25mA max.

One of the things they think caused the TWA 800 explosion was an
induced current to the fuel probes.  No physical connections of high
voltage, but a series of wires running close the to the fuel probe
wires, may have acted as a transformer and induced a high voltage.

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel tank vents
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:57:23 -0500

Just getting ready to seal up the first tank.  At the suggestion of the
local EZ drivers, I made a slight deviation from the plans.  I installed two
vent lines in the tank, one rear, against the forward face of the spar, the
other forward, just at the point where the top skin starts to curve toward
the leading edge. This is said to prevent fuel from being blown out in the
case of filling with fuel from cool underground storage and then parking
with the nose down.  

This brings 4 separate lines to the top of the firewall plus getting them
back down and out the bottom of the cowling.
My question:  Can I make a manifold from aluminum to fit these 4 lines into
and two more lines to carry the vent out the bottom of the cowling?  This
would give each tank a redundant vent path in case some little bug found a
home.  What about scarfing one overboard line forward and the other
rearward?  Not sure why, just sounds good.  Might be better in case of rain
or worse yet, Ice.  Any one been there, done that, before?

John epplin   Mk4 #467

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:04:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel tank vents

I wouldn't manifold them, keep them separate. If you put one scarf forward, the other aft, I hink 
you'll move air and vapors. The idea is to be a neutral as possible, and if a slight air buildup or 
vaccum is generated, it will be relieved instead of collapsing or blowing a tank apart.


From: Bes1612@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:59:28 EDT
Subject: COZY: fuel strake coating



Hello Cozy builders;

First of all I finally got my Private Pilots licence!  Only after two and one
half years.  I bought a Piper Tomahawk to train in, and the engin went befor I
completed my check ride.  It took me a year to get it overhawled, and arrange
to pay for it.  But that is finally behind me, and my attention can be turned
totally to my Cozy.   I tell everyone about becoming a Pilot, but not everyone
is as thrilled about it as me.  I know everyone in this group knows what it is
like, so.......  show and tell.

My Cozy problem is this.  I'm coating the inside of the fuel strake, and the
second coat wants to "fish eye".  I do not understand why.  Should I wash it
with MEK, or Laquer thinner befor coating?  I gave it a good sanding with 50
grit.  Seems to be all over to, not just in a small area.  Anyone else
experiance this?  I'm concerned about getting a good seal.  Scared stiff about
the horror stories already aired here!  About ready to close it up, so want to
hear from the group first.   

Nice to be back building!!  Thanks for all the help.

Bob Smith

PS. Thanks Marc.

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 05:07:48 -0400
From: bil kleb <w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: COZY: fuel strake coating

Bes1612@aol.com wrote:
> 
> My Cozy problem is this.  I'm coating the inside of the fuel strake, and the
> second coat wants to "fish eye".

FWIW: when "gloss coating" sailboards (a coat of pure epoxy) i find that
i get "fish eye" effects from air bubbles in the epoxy or oil contamination
of the surface.  if i do a thorough acetone wipe down beforehand and i am
really careful mixing the epoxy, i can avoid both problems.

note that `thorough acetone wipe down' does not mean a dripping wet cloth,
but turning a damp cloth frequently.  (having trapped solvent in pinholes
is not desirable.)
 
-- 
bil <mailto:w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov>

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:18:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: fuel strake coating

I had no problem in this area, DID NOT wipe with any solvent, don't think that is a good idea, 
unless accidently contaminated. Keep peal ply on to last moment. (Something I usually didn't do. 
When coating, used hair drier to reduce viscosity of epoxy, plenty of epoxy, and worked into area 
well. But then I don't prespire much, and hands were dry (not oily) from solvents and frequent 
washing.



From: Bes1612@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:29:44 EDT
Subject: COZY: coating problems still!

I've tried the suggestions I received from the list, and from Nat but still am
not satisfied with my coating inside the fuel strake.  I've reached a no-go
decision until I can get a satisfactory answer to the problem.  There is a
local "Long" builder that I can get to look at my work, and maybe get
something from him. 

I'm squeeging epoxy on the inside surfaces to seal the pin holes.  It is
crawling all over the place.  I've tried wiping with a laquor thinner rag
before coating, and squeeging again after partial set up, and rubbing with a
rag, or brush.  But it continues to open back up, and looks like the surface
was contaminated with silicone or something preventing the epoxy to grip.
I've tested it after cure and there is good bond, but there is no way it can
be sealing with all the fish eye that appears.  It is not contaminated, and
I've sanded it very well befor coating.  I've tried the coating twice.  Anyone
know if there is something in the epoxy that would cause it to do that?  I'm
using the EZ pozy, with 84 hardener.

I was sure I read something regarding fish eye a while back in the mail, but
cannot recall what was said.  I've looked in the archives throughout the fuel
strake section and in the FAQ.  Cannot find anything that comes close, or
gives me a lead.  

I hope someone else has come across this befor.  I cannot close up the strake
until I get this resolved.  

Bob Smith

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:58:08 -0400
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: Fwd: COZY: coating problems still!

Bob Smith writes;

>I'm squeeging epoxy on the inside surfaces to seal the pin holes.  It is
>crawling all over the place........  I'm
>using the EZ pozy, with 84 hardener.

When I was doing this, I put a thick coat of epoxy (EZ10/84, just like you)
on the sanded and roughed up inside surface and then laid a few large
sheets of peel ply over it to cover the whole surface.  This ensured that
the epoxy couldn't "crawl" away from any area, as the peel ply would keep
it in place (and it did).  The PP doesn't conform well to the curvature,
but if you use a few pieces you can get it to lay pretty flat.  It will
form a few ridges where the epoxy will be thicker, but there were only a
few spots where I didn't think the epoxy was thick enough, and I went over
these spots later with some epoxy and some more PP.

Hope this helps.....


--
Marc J. Zeitlin               marcz@ultranet.com
3 Sweetbriar Way              http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/
Acton, MA  01720              http://cozy.canard.com/

From: Fritzx2@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:12:55 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: coating problems still!

Bob Smith writes:

> I've tried the suggestions I received from the list, and from Nat but still
am
> not satisfied with my coating inside the fuel strake.  I've reached a no-go
> decision until I can get a satisfactory answer to the problem.  

I'm not quite sure what you mean by fish eye.  Does the epoxy puddle
up like water would do on a car after you wax it?  If so, I can think of
three possible solutions.  Maybe waiting until the epoxy starts to cure
and increase in viscosity before you paint the epoxy onto the surface.
Or, maybe laying a very thin layer of glass, (I've seen lightweight 
glass in the Wicks Catalog) down and wetting it out to hold the 
epoxy in place.  Second option adds much more weight which 
is a drawback.  Third option is to paint the epoxy onto the surface
and then peel ply to hold the epoxy in place.  Add enough epoxy
to the peel ply as you normally would when there was new glass
below.  Would possibly be lighter than adding the glass as in option
number three. 

Any help?

John Fritz
fritzx2@aol.com

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:49:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: coating problems still!

I applied coat of epoxy with a paint brush and hair dryer, working a generous amount of epoxy into 
surface. No squeege here.

From: "astrong" <astrong@mscomm.com>
Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:52:16 -0700

Alan,
	Check "Innovations" on my homepage"http://www.canard.com/trim" then click
on"Mag  Compass".I find this location ideal no mag compensation required.
								Alex
	

----------
> From: Alan Wirbisky <alan.wirbisky@medtronic.com>
> To: cozy_builders@canard.com
> Subject: COZY: Compass Location in Panel
> Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 3:06 PM
> 
> I'm getting ready to put a few holes in my instrument panel (I'm still in
> chapter 4) and am wondering the following :
> 
> Should I be concerned about the placement of the compass in proximity to
an
> electric gyro ? I want to put a turn-bank indicator in its "normal"
> position (normal for a guy who flies a Warrior and a Katana) which is
lower
> left in the main cluster. That'll put it fairly close to the magnetic
> compass, if I put it in the plans location. Are there concerns for
magnetic
> interference ? I always thought the compass should be as far away from
> anything metal, let alone spinning magnets.
> 
> Are there any "better locations" that people have come up with ?
> 
> Thanks.

From: "Hunter GA (Gary)  at MSXSCC" <GH334766@MSXSCC.shell.com>
Subject: COZY: RE: coatings
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:34:20 -0500

Bob, 

I am sometimes referred to as the "The Shell Answerman", because that is
what I do for Shell's epoxy resin product line - all day long for the past
10 years.

I have been watching the progression of your situation on the COZY forum.
The "fisheyeing" your are experiencing is quite common and is caused by a
multitude of things.  Primarily, it is a simple surface tension
incompatibility between the substrate and the resin you are applying.  

No matter the route cause, the potential for this situation to occur is
always there.  We don't see fisheyeing or crawling in secondary layups over
cured laminates because the fiberglass cloth prevents the resin for running.
But, the cause and potential is still there.  

The fact of the matter is, our "laminating" resins are not designed to be
"coating" resins.   Coating resins are much higher viscosity resins (usually
a solid resin) diluted in solvents to an application viscosity.  Almost
immediately after application, the solvents evaporate and the resin
viscosity shoots up so high so quickly, it is difficult for it sag, run or
crawl.   This is by design.   Our laminating resins are low in viscosity for
easy wetting of the fiberglass, and they cure slowly to allow us time to
work with them.  This too is by design and at the opposite end of the
spectrum from the design of a coating resin.  Thus your problem.

You can simulate a coating resin design by manipulating the viscosity.

I think someone may have already suggested this, but allowing the resin to
cure slightly (induction period) before applying to the substrate will allow
it to thicken, or grow in viscosity so that it will  - 1) be closer the
gelation point,  2.) less likely to crawl.    It will take some
experimenting and judgement for the temperature conditions and resin type
you are using, but say for instance -  allow the mixed resin to sit in a
covered shallow pan for about 30-45 minutes until you notice it is getting
pretty thick.  Then start brushing it on.   It will take several batches
that can be staged in 10 minute increments so you have sufficient material
to coat the entire insides of the tank.  This is my favorite technique
because you end up with a nice clear pure resin lining.   

A less favorite technique is to add a thixotrope to the resin to thicken it
also.   Cab-O-Sil (fumed silica) from ASS will do the trick .  It must be
stirred in under shear for best results.  It is best to make a concentrate
in the resin portion only with a high speed motor or drill turning a paint
mixer (propeller type) in a quart paint can.   Warm the resin a little first
with a heat gun to reduce the viscosity.  It will only take about 5% wt.
Cab-0-Sil to get the desired effect (keep track of how much you add).  Look
for something about like the consistency of petroleum jelly - free from
lumps and clumps.  You can add this concentrate (when ever needed) as needed
to the straight resin portion prior to adding the curing agent.  This
technique works best if you have digital scale to help you keep track of the
resin / thixotrope / curing agent quantities.  You will wind up with about
1-2% Cab-0-Sil in your final mixture and it should look be able to pour from
the container.  It will have a cloudy appearance.   Brushing will take more
skill as brush streaks will be harder to remove.  

What you have described to me doesn't sound all that bad.  You should get
good adhesion after all the preparations you have gone through.  My
recommendation for building the inside of tanks is to NOT skimp on the resin
- saturate the hell out of it.  This way the likelihood for a pin hole is
minimized.   The most important areas to be sure you have sealed are the
fuselage sides, and the joints along the fuselage sides, the center section
spar and the end rib, the vents drains and caps.  Other than that, pin holes
in surface areas of the tank bottoms, tops and baffles that have PVC cores
are nothing to be too overly concerned about.  The PVC foam is 100% fuel
resistant and is comprised of close cells.  Therefore, any avgas that gets
through the inner skins, can't go anywhere.  

If your using EZ-Poxy - I wouldn't worry about this.  If not, I highly
recommend you find some way to introduce heat inside the tank  before
putting avgas in it - just for insurance.   A good tempered heat source is
the exhaust side of a small vacuum cleaner for few hours.   Drop the hose
into the filler hole and let it circulate as much as it possibly can.  Keep
moving the hose around so not to get any localized hot spots and feel the
outer skins to see how much the heat is propagating the forward portion of
the tank.

Call me if you want to chat about it. 
Gary Hunter
Technical Service Representative   
EPOXY RESINS TECHNICAL INQUIRY
SHELL CHEMICALS, USA

Toll Free in North America   -   800-832-3766  (800-TEC-EPON)
International                        -   713-246-8295
Facsimile                            -   713-241-1606
E-Mail                                 -   gahunter@shellus.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Bes1612@aol.com [SMTP:Bes1612@aol.com]
> Sent:	Friday, September 25, 1998 8:11 AM
> To:	gahunter@shell.com
> Subject:	coatings
> 
> Hi Gary;
> 
> Someone told me you are the answer man.  I'm building a Cozy Mk IV, and
> put
> this to the Cozy group but have not received a satisfactory answer.  
> 
> I have seen crawling, and fish eye when coating again over hardened
> lay-up.
> I've sanded very well, and continue to get the crawl.  Even though the
> lay-up
> had been peel plied.  I've checked the bond, and there seems to be good
> bonding, but the coating is not smooth, and even.  This is inside the fuel
> strake, so was concerned about sealing of pinholes.  What do you think?
> 
> Bob Smith

From: N11TE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:13:58 EDT
Subject: Re: COZY: RE: coatings

Thanks, Gary,

for a very well written response.  You've given me several options for coating
the insides of my tanks that I didn't know were available.

Someone previously mentioned the possibility of using peel ply.  Do you have
any experience with or thoughts about using a wet peel ply application with
EZ-poxy?

Tom Ellis

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:41:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: RE: coatings

On 09/25/98 17:13:58 you wrote:
>
>Thanks, Gary,
>
>for a very well written response.  You've given me several options for coating
>the insides of my tanks that I didn't know were available.
>
>Someone previously mentioned the possibility of using peel ply.  Do you have
>any experience with or thoughts about using a wet peel ply application with
>EZ-poxy?
>
>Tom Ellis
>
>

I see 2 possible issues:
1: Once peal ply is wet out, it is difficult to work the air bubbles out, the peal ply is almost 
impervious to passing gas (air). This is more a problem with wide peal ply.
2: Getting too much epoxy in the lay up. But this wants to be on the wet side. I would lightly 
squeege to get epoxy uniformly distributed, and eliminate big puddles, but definately not anywhere 
near dry. Should be ZERO air bubbles under the peal ply!. 

Use you better halfs clothes iron to make the peal ply flat before using. I'm assuming you are 
using pieces cut from 54" or so wide dacron, and not 1 or 2 inch wide. Don't be afraid to get the 
scissors dirty, and cut the dacron to fit compound curves.

From: "Hunter GA (Gary)  at MSXSCC" <GH334766@MSXSCC.shell.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: RE: coatings
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:41:25 -0500

Peel will probably stop the crawling situation much like a layer of glass
does.  (IMO) If you're going to go through the trouble to cut / iron and
carefully squeegee out the air pockets in the peel ply, you might as well
put in another ply of fiberglass.  However, this will add to the weight of
the airplane a bit more than just a coating of resin.   You may want to
consider using a light weight glass fabric also available from ASS the -
3.16 oz. / sq. yd. - or even lighter still - 1.45 oz. / sq. yd. "Deck
Cloth".   These glass fabrics will be easier to work with and conform to
compound curves much better than peel ply.   This light weight cloth
shouldn't contribute too much to the gross weight of your Cozy as compared
to extra layer of 9.8 oz. BID.   Again, don't skimp on the resin, but don't
puddle it either.   Avoid the peel ply.

Gary

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	N11TE@aol.com [SMTP:N11TE@aol.com]
> Sent:	Friday, September 25, 1998 4:14 PM
> To:	Hunter GA (Gary)  at MSXSCC; Bes1612@aol.com
> Cc:	cozy_builders@canard.com; canard-aviators@canard.com
> Subject:	Re: COZY: RE: coatings
> 
> Thanks, Gary,
> 
> for a very well written response.  You've given me several options for
> coating
> the insides of my tanks that I didn't know were available.
> 
> Someone previously mentioned the possibility of using peel ply.  Do you
> have
> any experience with or thoughts about using a wet peel ply application
> with
> EZ-poxy?
> 
> Tom Ellis

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:43:23 -0400
From: "Edmond A. Richards" <EdRichards1@compuserve.com>
Subject: COZY: RE: Fuel Tank Coatings

For what it's worth I used the 3.16oz. "Satin" cloth on the inside of the
tanks, with what looks like great results.  I only say "looks like" because
while the tanks have leak checked OK I have not had fuel in them yet.  
Having said that, the epoxy with the satin glass made a really nice ,glass
smooth, surface.  The other thing that might be of interest is I painted on
several coats of epoxy, applying the subsequent coat while the previous
coat was still tacky.  

I have to credit Jeff Russell with the suggestion to use the satin weave
cloth.  Sounds like it was good advice.

Ed Richards
Cozy #88
Sanding & Sanding & Sanding & Painting

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:01:58 -0500
From: Mike Davis <flyboy@creative-net.net>
Subject: COZY: Strake Leading Edges

Here is a new topic to chew on.

My builing partner and I decided to build the strakes per plans except 
to incorporate Featherlite leading edges.  The thought was to get a 
perfect leading edge and save time.  We fabricated the strakes and even 
pressure tested them while waiting for the leading edges to arrive.  
Today the shipment arrived from Featherlite and the revelation began.  
Featherlite leading edges are a work of art.  They are very true, 
excellent workmanship, what more can I say?  Page two......

If you plan to use the leading edge kit order them before starting on 
the plans built strakes.  Their leading edges eliminate the need for the 
leading edge baffles and actually wrap several inches  back onto the 
ribs.  This is no problem if you have them in advance.  You can just 
follow their plan, forget TLE and BLE, modify the nose of your ribs and 
shorten the top and bottom skins.  

FYI, this is my second MarkIV.  I built my Cozy per plans without the 
leading edge kit.  It can be done but in Featherlites defense, they are 
better at it than I ever will be.  My leading edges required just a 
little contour fill. Featherlites probably would require little to no 
filling.

The intent is to save those of you that are getting to this point some 
work.  I hope that I have not discouraged anyone from purchasing 
Featherlite's strake or leading edge kits.  

Mike 
Cozy MKIV N141MD

P.S. The Rough River fly-in was a huge success this last weekend.  There 
were at least 45 EZ's on the ramp.  Mine should have won the least liked 
paint job award,,,, but wait till next year!

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:22:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Leading Edges

The main point of using the featherlite strakes is added fuel capacity. See archives or ask me for 
my notes on installation.

From: COZYMK4@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:51:22 EDT
Subject: COZY: Fuel Tank Sealing and Pressure Check

No matter how meticulous I was with the fuel tank construction, I still had
leaks like most everyone else.  

I hooked up a hardware store type clear plastic tubing to the drain vent line
and made a "T" to go to a fill line and a loop filled with red dyed water.  I
used the pressure of my own lungs to reach 8-12 inches of water pressure but
before I could get around to the other side of the strake, the pressure had
leaked out.  I used lots of soap at first but found it to be dismal after the
first hour.  

At 10:00 pm, I was discouraged and contemplating help to blow on the tube, or
using the high tech freon and freon detector method.  At this point, I also
wanted to find out really how much the tank actually would hold.  Since the
tubing was easy to drain out nad the glass tank shouldn't be hurt by water, I
had a brain storm to fill the tank with water to find leaks as well as
capacity.  I had to run to the kitchen to fill gallon milk jugs and then
discover how to pour them into the tank.  I had the filler caps in place
already and by holding fingers over the opening of the jug and suddenly
inverting, the water went in very well.

By the third gallon, I found my first leak in a pinhole at the rear baggage
wall, fuel window, fuselage side junction.  The water drained out thru a tube
running from the mid rear seat fuel line junction, out thru the speed brake
opening and then to the garage driveway.  That hole was easy to repair with
the layer of glass that I had forgotten to do (I really was going to do it
someday!).

The tank the filled up the next weekend to full at 27 1/4 gallons and after 14
hours, had maintained 18 inches of water pressure precisely.  As I filled up
the tank, I made marks on a piece of masking tape adjacent to the fuel window
to denote gallon levels.  The first 2 gallons were very far from the empty
line but the others were very symmetrical til 23 gallons when it toped out and
no level could be seen the rest of the way to full.  My friend is going to
take the lines and gallon numbers and transfer it to transparent vinyl to make
a fuel guage.

The next tank was more of a challenge.  The air pressure leaked out much
faster!  With some water in the tank I found the fuel line to stopcock valve
connection was only hand tight (oops).  Then the drain valve at the leading
edge of the strake started dripping.  I tried to dry it out and use 5 minute
epoxy but it then leaked a 1/2 inch away at a pinhole.  I had to dremel out
the 1 inch square alum. plate and find that when I tightened up the drain
valve with a torque wrench, the pop that I heard was actually the plate
crunching foam and twisting 20 degrees.  Now, water could flow really fast.  A
piece of duct tape worked well as a temporary block til I could flip the plane
over.  The next leak evaded detection even with water in the tank until it was
totally full at 27 gallons even.  Then a mysterious drip appeared at the upper
point in the main landing gear well.  With one gallon drained thru the
stopcock, I could hear water/air spray coming thru the leak.  At 2 gallons
down, there was only air leak and no noise.  Since the leak had to be at the
top of the tank, I figured out that the BID S-glass tape that an RV builder
bought by accident and gave to me had caused me harm.  I tried to use the tape
to reinforce the fuse/spar joint and the fuel baffle/fuselage side joint.  The
tape doesn't like to bend and I fought it into place for a long til before
putting the top on the tank.  I didn't realize that there was a small air tube
behind the tape down to the tank bottom, along the spar to get inside the
fuselage wall and then over to the gear well.

I had to flip the plane over to repair the drain valve metal plate, and
reglass the exterior.  The well was fun since I could (again with lung power)
suck thin micro into the leak with and watch it vanish.  The final leak was a
poorly seated fuel cap.  To fill the tanks with water while inverted takes a
hose at low pressure to force water into the drain line and air comes out the
primary fuel line.  This took hours and even more to drain out, but it held
water and pressure of 22 inches for 8 hours with absolutely no height loss!!!

I have the Sky-Sport senders in the upper part of the rear baggage wall
pointing near the screen filter at the tank primary drain.  The senders a
snugged and safety wired and never leaked at all!  Some people were concerned
before about the sealability of the cork seal on the bolts and bolt holes.  So
far it has worked.  Hopefully, it will still be sealed in 10 years.

I dried out the system with a vacuum cleaner sucking on the system for an hour
or two.  I imagine that I could have created some corrosion potentially but I
dried out the plane as soon as possible.  The gascolator and piping thru the
firewall were not used during this testing.

Lessons learned:  
1) Don't use an air pump even at low pressure.  It worked to move water out of
the lines but made a loud pop on the tank.  There is now something damaged but
I can't find it.  
2) A vacuum cleaner sealed at the fuel cap can suck the drain valve and make
it vibrate (read as scream) and scare you bad.
3) The skins and bulkheads can be sealed during building with good care.
4) Nat's plans are accurate regarding fuel capacity.

I hope that someone learns some good and bad from my experience.  Just don't
repeat the bad parts.

Kevin Funk
Cozy Mk IV #90

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:18:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel Tank Sealing and Pressure Check

Funk writes: <Check capacity with water>
Use calibrated meters. In most parts of the states its required that a government agency, usually 
the county auditor, test the meters, scales, etc. and put a seal on them with a stamp of approval. 
Use this for your final capacity numbers.

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: COZY: Strakes, fuel tanks
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:54:13 -0500

I have just completed the fuel tank/strake area.  Would like to comment on a
couple of things, might help someone else.  I chased leaks for several days
until I finally decided to look at my pressure connections.  I used a piece
of clear plastic tube as a water manometer and some of the blue soft tube
that I believe is sold as sling-shot rubber among other things, to pressure
the system.  Left the drain fitting covered from the inside, filler neck not
cut out, capacitor fuel probes in place.  I put the two vent lines in per
the CP newsletter some time ago.  Connected the manometer to one and the
soft rubber hose to the other.  The sump blisters were not yet in place so I
did not cut the 1.25 in hole into them yet.  I pressurized each tank by
mouth to 20 in water and used a spring clamp to close off the rubber tube.
The pressure would drop to about 10 in water in 24 hours then almost hold,
maybe less than 1 in per day loss after that.  Both tanks did the same.  I
finally folded the rubber hose over itself and double clamped it.  Now I
have a thermometer!  The pressure will go up or down about 1 in per deg F.
In 48 hours it was within 1 in at the same temperature.  Did not have any
big barometer swings during the test period so cannot say if that made much
difference.

I followed the suggestions I found in the archives, cannot remember all who
made them.  I mounted the wing and made a rib next to the wing, attaching it
to the spar aligned with the wing skin.  Then removed the wing, trimmed the
rib 3/8 in on the outboard edge and proceeded to build and install the rest
of the ribs and baffles etc.  This eliminates the filler block installed
when the wing is finally fitted.  Formed the top skin and covered the inside
with one layer of BID per plans, applied peel ply and let cure.  Left the
peel ply on and covered the areas over the ribs, baffles etc with box
sealing tape, applied generously to make sure things were covered.  With the
ribs, baffles etc all in place and firmly attached, removed the table from
under  the strake.  I layed the top skin in place, with boards, weights,
clamps, tape etc fixed it firmly in place.  I cut a 1 X 2 strip at an angle
to fit along the leading edge to hold it firmly against the tank leading
edge.  Then, from underneath, applied one ply BID 2 in wide every where the
skin contacted the structure.  This was permanently applied to all parts
except the top skin, where it was applied to the box tape.  I then made a
sort of structure over the top skin with pieces of 1 X 2, attaching it to
the foam with bondo to hold the shape.  After everything cured, I removed
the skin and set it aside, replaced the table and installed the bottom skin
per plans.

I applied peel ply to every layup up to this point, only sanded to knock off
the rough edges.  I then applied 3 coats of epoxy, squeegee in hand,
allowing each to get quite tacky but not completely set between coats.  I
did not peel ply this coating.  Then I removed the tape and peel ply from
the top skin, applied 3 coats of epoxy similarly.  Sanded the flanges and
all contact areas, applied liberal flox and set the top skin in place, still
tacky from the last coat of epoxy.  I clamped the leading edge down and
weighted everything else in place.

One suggestion I would like to make, if I ever do this again I will try one
change.  I would make the tank leading edge in one piece,  it would be
easier to keep everything straight.  Cut the nose of the 2 ribs at the
appropriate place and angle and butt them against the leading edge.  Keep
the cut off pieces and trim the leading edge thickness from them.  When you
apply the exterior lay-ups, it would be easier to lay the glass over the
leading edge without the cuts for the rib.  I believe this would actually
enhance the strength of the complete assembly.  After the exterior skin is
on, then attach the cut off pieces and build the foam leading edge per
plans.

Another minor detail, I recessed an area for the filler cap.  The flange is
about .125 thick, this may be hard to keep flush if it is not recessed into
the foam somewhat.  I did not find this in the plans.

John Epplin   Mk4  #467

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:29:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: COZY: Strakes, fuel tanks

Forgot to mention in my previous on strakes, also recessed fuel cap area, actually installed caps 
befor top was installed.

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:32:26 -0500
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: COZY: Chapter 21 - Oaf story #3: Part 1 of 3

PART 1

Our local oaf has been slacking off lately, due to some problems he's been
having which have depressed him no end.  Since he's just recently come out
of his slump, I think it's time to tell his latest tale.

Once upon a time, there was this oaf (same oaf as the one from Chapter 9
and Chapter 18 - I mean, how many oafs [oaves?] can there be in Acton, MA
building COZY MKIV's?) who was still (after almost 4 years) building his
plane.  He had just built a new cottage (2x6's, 25 year shingles, etc. - no
straw or sticks for this oaf) with a two car garage, so he could actually
do the assembly of the aforementioned plane.  After the standard time spent
arranging furniture and installing shelving, the oaf went back to work on
the important stuff (the plane).

To make a long story short (well, shorter - nothing having anything to do
with this oaf is ever short), while working on Chapter 21 (strakes and fuel
tanks) the oaf got to the point where he had the right bottom strake
glassed in place with all the ribs glassed in as well.  He had installed
all of the fittings, the fuel sender unit and fuel cap (in the right top
strake) as well as the sump and fuel lines.  He had used the "T-hat" method
to cap off the ribs with 1" wide BID strips, and had epoxied the inside of
the bottom and top strakes multiple times to ensure sealing.  He was just
about ready to flox and glass the top strake in place (he thinks to himself).

It was at this juncture that the oaf's brain ceased to function at any
point above his medulla (and there just barely).  Whether this was due to
cosmic rays, the phase of the moon, Jupiter being in conjunction with
Neptune, or a spell cast by our now all too familiar witch, who can say...
maybe there's just a good reason our hero is called an "oaf".

So, with the oaf's body operating on autopilot (and one not nearly so good
as the Navaid the oaf is installing in the plane), he floxes all the
"T-hat" sections and strake rim, paints epoxy on all the mating surfaces,
and then puts the strake top on the strake bottom.  "Hmmmm", the oaf
mumbles to himself - "did I put enough flox on there?  I didn't see a whole
lot of squeezeout in a few places, even with all the weight on the top".

For all of you following along out there, this right here is the critical
decision point - watch carefully how our oaf screws up.

"Well, if I take the strake top off to check, I'll probably find that
everything is OK, and then it'll take me another hour to re-apply the flox
and put the strake top back on.  What a waste of time THAT will be.  I'll
just assume everything's OK, and let it cure".

The oaf can, in retrospect, hear all of you screaming "No, you dope!  If
you have any doubt at ALL, check your work!!!".  However, we must remember
that the oaf's brain was turned off as he was performing this task, making
it impossible for him to see even the most rudimentary of intelligent moves.

END PART 1


--
Marc J. Zeitlin               marcz@ultranet.com
3 Sweetbriar Way              http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/
Acton, MA  01720              http://cozy.canard.com/

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:32:33 -0500
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: COZY: Chapter 21 - Oaf story #3: Part 2 of 3

PART 2

Anyway, the oaf eventually gets around to pressure testing his tank, and lo
and behold (all fairy tales have a lo and behold in them) it leaks like a
sieve.  The oaf quickly finds a large leak at the joint of the TTE
bulkhead, the main spar and the strake top, and after butchering the strake
top fixes it (or so he thinks).  This cuts the leak rate down by a factor
of four, but there's still another leak which he finds at the joint of the
inboard diagonal, the fuselage side and the strake top.  Bada bing, bada
boom, a little flox and BID, and that one's fixed too.

Our oaf thinks everything's alright now, but little does he know that
having his brain off for that critical 5 minutes will now cost him about 3
months of untold misery.  While the major leaks are now fixed, the oaf
still has a residual leak that causes the tank to lose 18" of water
pressure or so over a 4 hour period.  The oaf starts putting soapy water
all over the place, and finds some small leaks around the fuel cap (fixed
with some lithium grease on BOTH O-rings) and around the electronic fuel
sender unit (fixed with some gasoline-proof gasket sealant).

This reduces the leak rate by half, but it's still leaking.  Our despondent
oaf stops going into the garage on a regular basis, and takes to berating
his wife and son unmercifully for no good reason.  The oaf's wife, being a
saint, doesn't chop him into small pieces and feed him to the squirrels
during the night, but lets him get back to the garage as he will.

The oaf keeps painting soapy water on every possible surface, including all
the vent lines that he's plugged up, but can't find a dang thing -"what's
the air doing - osmosing through the fiberglas?" he thinks to himself,
knowing that can't be the case.

Eventually, the oaf decides to fill the tank up with water to see if by
tilting the tank in various directions he can locate the position of the
leak.  However, when he does this and pressurizes the tank, the lack of
flox on the top rear of R33 causes the strake top to explosively depart
company with R33.  The oaf's wife says "yo, dude, that didn't sound good"
when she hears the large "BANG".  "No" our hero replies, "that sucks - I
just broke my plane".

The oaf now takes a hacksaw and cuts a 16" x 8" rectangular hole in the top
of the strake centered over R33, and finds that there was a total of 3/4"
of flox connection between the two parts out of a total length of 14" or
so.  Gentle reader, go back to the paragraph where the oaf said:

   "did I put enough flox on there?  I didn't see a whole lot of squeezeout
in a few places, even with all the weight on the top".

 So, is this guy a moron, or what?

END PART 2

--
Marc J. Zeitlin               marcz@ultranet.com
3 Sweetbriar Way              http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/
Acton, MA  01720              http://cozy.canard.com/

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:55:32 -0500
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marcz@ultranet.com>
Subject: COZY: Chapter 21 - Oaf story #3: Part 3 of 3

PART 3

Our oaf now patches the strake top back in with appropriate glass layers,
fixes a small leak near the rear of the cutout created during this patch
and goes back to trying to find the leak.  He fills the tank with water,
tilts the nose up to get the water to the back of the tank and then
pressurizes the tank to 18" of water pressure.  Hmmm, the leak rate seems
substantially slower now - maybe our oaf has covered the leak with water so
the air can't escape.  He finds a fine-tooth comb in his overalls and goes
over every square inch of the strake.  With the strake top still butchered
from the first gross leak fix, the oaf notices a tiny drop of water growing
larger near the aforementioned TTE, main spar, and strake top.

Believing himself close to resolution, our oaf grabs his Dremel (actually
Ryobi) tool and grinds away at the suspected leak area.  He chases the leak
down along 6" of strake top until he gets to a point where he's got a
stream of water being ejected from a tiny hole in some flox.  "YES!!!", our
oaf thinks.  He drains some water from the tank, dries everything off with
paper towels and a hair dryer and then epoxies, wet floxes and 2 BID's the
hole, while pulling a 12" water pressure vacuum on the tank all the while.

Our oaf lets this cure and then re-pressure tests the tank for what seems
like the 3x10^17th time.  Our oaf now finds that the tank loses 1" of water
pressure in the first 24 hour period - approximately 2 orders of magnitude
less than before.  He also finds that the tank pressure stabilizes over the
next 24 hours, even increasing in pressure as the temperature rises during
the day.  This is enough to make the oaf believe that he's really cured the
problem.

Now, I won't make the claim (as the past two times) that this oaf's story
has anything resembling a happy ending - I'm not Voltaire and I don't
subscribe to the theories of Dr. Pangloss.  However, the oaf can, at least,
progress to the left strake and the reader can rest assured that the oaf
will NOT repeat this same mistake again (no matter what the witch does),
although the oaf does seem to have a bottomless pit of new mistakes from
which to draw at any given time.

If, however, this story prevents even one reader from doing anything
resembling the same stupid thing by giving them the magic spells with which
to resist the evil castings of the witch, it will have been worthwhile to
relate it.

END PART 3



--
Marc J. Zeitlin               marcz@ultranet.com
3 Sweetbriar Way              http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/
Acton, MA  01720              http://cozy.canard.com/

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:51:32 -0500
From: Bill Theeringer <Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@compuserve.com>
Subject: COZY: Part 4??


Oh you poor wretched beast!

 I could have saved your poor Acton Soul had you but confided in me in
time!  I too went through what you went through right up to the point of 
"did I put enough flox on there...".  SO, being of sound mind and cautious
nature I undertook the application of liberal amounts of duct tape on all
inside top surfaces to be so bonded then installed the top strake where
nature and the plans called out for it to be.  After cure, I too
pressurized it to the point of a loud pop, but with good reason.  I then
removed the strake top, exposing the entire floxed area.  Any deficient
area was then built up to the proper level, everything sanded again and the
whole thing reinstalled (yes, the tape was removed) with a thin coat of
flox.  I have never had a leak.  Several years later the strakes were
filled with water and the plane was drop tested for the FAR part 93 2200lb
landing gear test.  It was picked up with a cherry picker and the rope was
cut.  I knew the gear would hold up, but was nervous about the strake.  I
figured the plane would stop falling but the strakes might not.  It passed
and the strakes are still on the plane.

Bill Theeringer
N29EZ
Santa Barbara, CA

From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:37:15 -0600
Subject: Re: COZY:  Oaf story  



 >So, is this guy a moron, or what?

Nope; just a human stuck with the brain cells he grew himself... just like 
the rest of us.

I have a rather large blob of UNI slapped on a piece of wallboard and hung 
over my workbench as a monument to my 'first' major boo-boo.  Darn good 
reminder that mistakes "will" happen (and if it's bad enough, the wife 
gets the Jacuzzi she says the fuselage looks like).  Only reason blob is 
stuck on the wallboard is cause that's where I threw it in frustration.... 
First big UNI layup (on the inside of the fuselage side) and couldn't get 
the fibers to line up "perfectly" parallel no matter what I did [working 
alone].  Lucky I had enough UNI cut for both halves ready to go.... 

Hang in there Marc.  You aren't alone.  And thanks for the warning; very 
helpful.

Larry


Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:23:47 -0800
From: "LCDR James D. Newman" <infaero@flash.net>
Subject: COZY: Re:  Part 4??

Hi Bill and All,

> Bill Theeringer wrote <snip>:
> Several years later the strakes were filled with water and the plane was drop tested for the FAR
part 93 2200 lb. landing gear test.  It was picked up with a cherry picker and the rope was cut.  I
knew the gear would hold up, but was nervous about the strake.  I figured the plane would stop
falling but the strakes might not.  It passed and the strakes are still on the plane.

    It was done per FAR Part 23; the tanks were filled with 40 gallons of water (~ 2.4 lbs. per
gallon heavier than avgas) for the drop tests; the plane was dropped many times increasing the
height each time until we got to the maximum height per FAR Part 23 for a drop test of a 2200 lb.
aircraft; over 15 degrees of torque was imposed on the main gear, strake and center section spar
during the drop test; and as of Feb. '99, this plane will have been flying 5 years with our main
retractable gear trouble free.
    As you can see, these canard planes are very strong and safe.


Infinity's Forever,

    JD

From: "Richard  Goodwin" <richgoodwin@email.msn.com>
Subject: COZY: Fuel Senders (chap21)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:22:32 -0000

Building Cozy Classic in UK.
Thinking of fitting fuel senders.  Which do you think are best, cheapest
easiest to fit etc.  I am visiting the US over Christmas and will aim to get
them while I'm over there.
Many thanks for your help in advance.
Richard Goodwin



Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:36:30 -0800
Subject: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination
From: alwick@juno.com (ok How)

I just added my fuel cap to tanks. Learned a lot that I have never seen
posted before. I know it is very common to have tanks contaminated during
construction. Was always puzzled, I think I understand now.
I used three different size hole saws to make the cutout. But I  made the
point of NOT cutting thru the inner skin until I had all of the fuel cap
dimensions and sanding complete. So basically I did all of the work with
only  the 1/4" pilot hole for the hole saws thru the skin.
The critical step is when you go to vacuum the debris from the tank
interior. If you just poke your shop vac hose in the tank, you are
screwed. The air you displace with the vacuum rushes into the tank around
the vacuum hose. This disperses the debris throughout the tank. Here you
are all fat dumb and happy, you look into tank and say "yup, got it all".
Little do you know that the extreme corners have piles of loose debris
caused by the vacuum.
This is the reason the plans say to duct tape a small diam hose to the
end of the shop vac. You need to reduce the quantity of air to avoid the
tornado inside the tank. You should use a 3' piece of 1" diam or smaller
hose. Also, DON'T put a rag around the vacuum hose to seal off the tank
opening. Could be lethal to your tank.
Recommend you tape this to your plans. Fuel contamination is very common
and I suspect this is the primary cause.
Happy building!
I just started my engine today for first time! What a thrill! No
problems, what a shock.


-al wick
88% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized
cockpit.
Done building components. Expect completion date 6-21-99.

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From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:07:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination

I installed the fuel caps and capacitive fuel sending unit plates in the top before installing the 
top.

From: Muzzy Norman E <MuzzyNormanE@Waterloo.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:40:32 -0600

Al said:
<<But I  made the point of NOT cutting thru the inner skin>>

Something that we do when machining holes to minimize contamination:

Cover the area where you are drilling or cutting with a heavy grease. This
will capture the chips and dust, and you can then wipe up the grease when
you are done.  I don't know how well this would work with fiberglass, but it
might be worth a shot.

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:00:35 -0600



> Al said:
> <<But I  made the point of NOT cutting thru the inner skin>>
> 
	  Norm said:
>  Cover the area where you are drilling or cutting with a heavy grease. 
> 
	[Epplin John A]

	I will add another .02:

	Grease may be a problem, you still have to bond the filler neck into
the laminate.  I don't know how you might get the grease out of the foam
completely.  Could cause a problem.  I have my strakes finished except for
the filler.  I intend to cut these in with a hole saw the next time I turn
the fuselage over.  I plan on pressurizing the tank slightly through the
vent lines, no more than 20 inches of water.  I did make a recess in the top
outer skin so the filler neck will be flush without excessive filler.

From: Muzzy Norman E <MuzzyNormanE@Waterloo.deere.com>
Subject: FW: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:46:04 -0600

John said: <<Grease may be a problem, you still have to bond the filler neck
into
the laminate.  I don't know how you might get the grease out of the foam
completely.  Could cause a problem.>>

OK, so how about cutting the openings through a slurry of epoxy. Anything to
bind up the chips and dust.  The pressurizing is a good idea also.

Regards-
Norm

From: Epplin John A <EpplinJohnA@jdcorp.deere.com>
Subject: RE: COZY: avoiding fuel tank contamination
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:15:33 -0600




> John said: <<Grease may be a problem, you still have to bond the filler
> neck
> into
> the laminate.  I don't know how you might get the grease out of the foam
> completely.  Could cause a problem.>>
> 
> OK, so how about cutting the openings through a slurry of epoxy. Anything
> to
> bind up the chips and dust.  The pressurizing is a good idea also.
> 
> Regards-
> Norm
	[Epplin John A]  

	Good idea!  I will do just that with the A/C upside-down and a
little pressure.

	John e.  

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:11:53 +0200
From: Rego Burger <BurgerR@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Static and fuel tanks.

This topic was discussed some time back so I just wish to advise
everyone of an interesting article in Sport Aviation
Dec. 1998 Pgs. 55-60

A good amount of coverage was given to composite aircraft.

Regards.
Rego.
RSA.
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                    

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:45:48 +0200
From: Rego Burger <BurgerR@telkom.co.za>
Subject: COZY: Static and fuel tanks.

What I omitted to say was.....

The recommended wire in the tank / fuel to ground the fuel is claimed to
be a useless exercise. ( I thought this might work too ) On pg. 56 Sport
aviation Dec 1998 at the end of the middle para.  " This illustrates how
fuel is non-conductive and how it cannot be grounded using immersed
wires."

This articles best solution ( excuse the pun ) seems to be to use a wet
rag to wipe down the wing.
Concern:
The Official Newsletter updates recommended a wire into the fuel to the
fuel cap, according to the article this would seem futile. (false sense
of security)

Any university folks out there looking for a project?

Rego
RSA.

                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:50:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: COZY: Static and fuel tanks.

I have 4" wide Rhomglass conductive fiberglass strips on the bottom and sides of my tanks. It is the 
top ply, sanded to expose, and stainless (safety) wire woven into an end. The wire then is grounded 
to the engine. When fueling, I connect the ground wire to an exhaust pipe. I have some of the 
Rhomglas available free is sent an envelope. Ask first. I understand the static is a surface item, 
and contact under the surface of the liquid doesn't count, something conductive at the surface is 
required.

From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:15:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: COZY: Grounding while fueling

While at the airport Xmas party, I talked to our Line Service manager. He said that bonding 
(grounding)is a requirement of the National Fire Protection Code, and also required by BP Oil 
instructions. I don't have access at this time to either document, but will have access to the Fire 
Code the middle of January, and will try to check.

I think, it would be possible to encounter line service that will not fuel without bonding, abd 
should be prepared to do so, even if you feel not necessary. Either way, the most important is a 
current dated fire extinguisher rated for the type fire be conviently located.

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:15:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "George A. Graham" <ca266@freenet.buffalo.edu>
Subject: COZY: Fueling Static Sparks


I read a really great article somewhere about static buildup and sparking.

The procedure that I use now, is to wipe off the fuel cap area with a wet
cloth to kill any static on the cap.  

I use 6 gal plastic outboard tanks filled with auto fuel, so I also set
the tank down on the ground before hoisting onto the strake, then I
touch the siphon hose to the still closed fuel cap before opening it.

So far so good.

George Graham
RX-7 Powered EZ, N4449E
ca266@freenet.buffalo.edu

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:55:32 -0800
From: Frank Johanson <ics@ime.net>
Subject: Re: COZY: Static andnon conductive material

Hello Rego

Non conductive material will hold a static charge on the surface,  If you
dont get rid of it in a controled manor it will find its own place to
discharge, maybe when there are gas fumes around. (ouch!)

Frank Johanson