Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:26:10 -0500 From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Control Stick Grip Make your own- it's easy - Carve some 2 lb. foam to shape to fit your hand -but a little smaller. 5 min epoxy the correct Dia. tube to the grip. Mix up some dry micro and cover the rough shape then rap with one ply of BID allow to get to the "knife trim" cure stage and grab it to fit your hand. Fill-sand-fill-sand. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:52:32 -0500 From: Allegro816@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: control stick You can make stick grips by molding a hunk of dry micro onto 3/4" tubing, shaping it to fit your hand. A fiberglass switchbox glassed on top and you have a very slick, inexpensive solution, which as far as I know is Ken Miller's idea. It works. Kens airplane has about the nicest grips I've seen and they were made in just this way. robin du bois Cozy 22AZ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:51:31 -0500 From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Stick Grips Hi to All, >Bob Misterka wrote to Ken Reiter and y'all (Hi Bob)< >Those fancy grips are nice, but in many cases are really overkill for most of our applications.< (*)The purpose of a HOS (Hands On Stick) with switches built into them to control aircraft functions, is to cut down on pilot workload, increase pilot efficiency, declutter the instrument panel and make flying the aircraft safer, among other things. My grip is designed with safety, comfort, functionality and durability in mind. The anatomical ergonomic design is contoured to the shape of your fingers, and includes a fatigue reducing hand rest at the base. The grip(s) come custom wired per your requirements ready to install (see my Home Page). Other grips are not customizable. Others you have to wire the switches yourself. Others you have to totally build. How I got into making stick grips: first, I was involved in the cockpit layout and design of fighters of the future, using the F-14D Super Tomcat as a baseline - cockpit ergonomics became a pet peeve (there are some really neat 'glass' cockpits coming out this year from Ohio I'll discuss later). Also, it just irked the hell out of me that we all spend years and thousands of dollars on our dream machines, then end up using a bicycle grip, ski pole or wood rod with maybe a cheap switch or two stuck in it because there was nothing on the market like my grip. This is like putting on a black tie dinner, and using paper plates and plastic utensils, serving hot dogs. I just couldn't see flying my airplane with a plastic spoon (most people can't either). Example of a typical Cozy MK-IV/canard stick grip from us for the left seat: the cooley-hat is for electric pitch and roll trim. If you don't have pitch &/or roll trim, you can use it for stepping frequencies, flip-flop and transponder ident; the trigger is usually the Push-To-Talk (PTT); the toggle switch to the right of the cooley hat is spring-loaded down so you can thumb out the belly board as you need it for landing, center is off, and up stays up, so when you do a touch-and-go, you thumb the belly board up and don't have to come into the cockpit to find the switch (the switch can still be put back to the center to shut the belly board linear actuator OFF if you don't have a limit switch); the on-off pushbutton to the left of the cooley hat turns the fuel pump on and off; the on-off pushbutton half way down the side turns the strobes on and off; and the on-off pinky switch turns the Navaid Autopilot on and off (a autopilot disconnect on the stick is required for certified aircraft), or use a Normally Open Momentary for engine start. The co-pilots grip would be a mirror image of the pilots. I have 7 kinds of switches I can put into 4 positions. That is 16,384 combinations. If you really don't want a switch, I just won't drill the hole to install the switch, but I still send you a switch as a spare for the other positions. Examples of safety issues: the typical side-by-side cockpit has the engine start switch on the upper left side of the panel (which might be OK for ground start), and the fuel pump switch is somewhere on the panel. Scenario 1 (granted, a worst case) - you just took off and are on climb out, the engine driven mechanical fuel pump fails, and you forgot to turn the electric fuel pump ON before take-off roll. The engine and prop will stop. You look down to find the fuel pump switch (now you are not flying the airplane), your sphincter muscle is going to Warp 10 and down your leg, you finally find the fuel pump switch, then you reach across your face with your right hand to turn the key to start the engine (you can't let go with the left hand), possibly inducing vertigo since you're not looking at the panel (if you were IFR). You go back and forth from the key to the throttle until the engine finally starts - your mind is racing and in a time warp. You look up to fly away and find yourself inverted low altitude - end of story. With a HOS such as mine, you just move your thumb to the left of the cooley hat and turn ON the fuel pump, then use your pinky finger to start the engine - you never have to look down into the cockpit for ANYTHING, letting go of the throttle handle, stopping flying the aircraft ! 2 - You inadvertently fly into a cloud at night, or are landing/taxiing day or night between buildings, or taxiing by someone, or at the hold short and someone is landing, or it starts/is raining, it sure is nice to just click off the strobes without looking into the cockpit. Prolonged reflected into the cockpit strobes will cause vertigo. 3 - Flashing the landing light without coming into the cockpit and loosing sight of someone coming at you. 4 - More . . . >They are also expensive!< You have to buy switches ($10 to $20+ each) to activate systems and wire them anyway, why not put them where they are more handy to reach, cleaning off your panel, etc.? See (*) above. >I had to install the PTT switches in them by carefully drilling and reaming out a hole in the top to accept a Radio Shack momentary switch. They worked out fine.< Beware, some switches move only 1/200 of an inch and will activate when you don't want them to before they click. The switches I use have the proper pre-travel and ounces of force before activation, a crisp tactile feel and click, don't turn ON / activate until they do click, and are rated for 8 Amps. Info: My grips are being certified in the Meyers aircraft, is offered by several of the finer kit mfg.'s with their kits (such as Revolution Helicopter, SQ 2000, others), and is carried in finer catalog's (such as Gulf and Pacific Coast catalogs, and others). These grips are required when using the Gulf Coast integrating 'black box' used in Lancair IV's and Glasair III's, for example. They are in Todd Morgan's Osh '95 Grand Champion Cozy III, which also won the Stan Dzik award for Safety partly because of the grips. They are in the Legend, Air Command's Sheriff's helo, most all Harmon rocket's, many Lancair's, Glasair's, RV's, canards, ultralights, biplanes, crop dusters, other helos, 314' custom yacht, a submarine, bomb removal robots, boom operating equipment, field crop dusters, etc. (you get the idea). Bob, thanks for giving me the opportunity to discuss HOS. I hope the above 'food for thought' discussion is helpful to all. See my Home Page for further details. I have a throttle handle and quadrant in work. Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace Mailing Address: P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 Shipping Address: 1750 Joe Crosson Drive, D-2 El Cajon, CA 92020 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com OR INFINITY_Aerospace@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:16:20 -0500 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Drilling Holes in tubing Hello Everyone. I've been spending the last week building the control system. I have had some difficulty in drilling centered holes in the tubing and am wondering if any of you have any suggestions. Following is the method I use: Firstly, I wrap the tube with masking tape and place a mark where the hole is to be drilled. This doesn't center the hole, just marks the distance from one end of the tube. Next, I place the tube in my cross vice on the drill press. I try to level the tube but this requires one hand to hold the tube, one hand to hold the level and one hand to tighten the vice -- at last count, this is one hand too many. I then measure across the opening in the vice, divide the distance by two and place a mark at the center point on the tube. I use a spring loaded punch to place a dimple in the tube. The tube is then drilled with a pilot drill and the final larger drill. Unfortunetly it seems that virtually all my holes are a smidgin off center. I also have trouble markiong the point for holes drilled at a 90 degree rotation to the the first hole. I've been using a long bolt through the first hole and then rotating the tube and placing a level on the bolt. This requires one hand for the tube, one hand to hold the level on the bolt, one hand to hold the level on the tuibe and one hand to tighten the vice. This leaves me two hands short. Any comments guys? Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:18:35 -0500 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Control Stick Grip In a message dated 96-12-30 16:35:24 EST, ken@quickturn.com (Ken Reiter) writes: << I am at the point of what grip to place on the control sticks. I would like to get input from the group. I have looked at the ski shops nothing to hot there :) . >> Infinity Aerospace sells a grip with a large number of switches on it for $125 (I think). Atari Joysticks also work. I did see one Long that uses a turned oak cylinder. Dick Finn Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:32:53 -0500 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Control Stick Grip In a message dated 97-01-01 21:30:00 EST, SWrightFLY@aol.com writes: << Make your own- it's easy - Carve some 2 lb. foam to shape to fit your hand -but a little smaller. 5 min epoxy the correct Dia. tube to the grip. >> Neat idea, as a take off on that thought, why not put on a vinyl or laytex glove and place your left or right hand in a comfortable, but loose (i.e. not touching) around the tube. Buy some spray foam insulation or use pour foam letting the excess flow out over your hand. Trim things up and I'd think you would have a custom grip form. Dick Finn Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 05:15:37 -0500 From: Wschertz@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Drilling Holes in tubing Dick, I don't have a cross vise, but you might consider the following: I do a fair amount of woodworking, and a drill press table is too small to adequately support long pieces of wood (as it would be a piece of control tubing), therefore I built an extended table (~2' either side of the spindle, with a good high fence that can be clamped in place. Plans were in Woodsmith magazine, and if you are interested I can try to look them up. Having the long table to support the tubing to be drilled, I would use the table and the fence as reference points, then take a block of wood that is cut with at least TWO faces being square to one another. Also the ends of the block being cut SQUARE to the body. Lets assume 2"x2" x 4" long (for ~3/4" dia control tubing) Hold the block with one of the two inch faces against the fence, and drill all the way through with a 1/4" hole, penetrate the base table. Keeping the SAME face against the fence, turn it on end and drill a hole down through the block (lenghwise), that is a smooth sliding fit to the tubing you want to drill through. Also glue a short piece of 1/4" dowel into the bottom face of the 2x2 block, so that it will act as a pin into hole in the base table ( for location purposes) Now, cut off a 1" section of the 4" block, slide it over the tubing to be drilled, slide the 3" remainder over the tubing, lining up the 1/4" hole with the spot to be drilled, the tubing will be level if the drill press table is level, keep the correct face to the fence/table orientation (remember, a long drill press table). By engaging the dowel into the drill press table, the bit will be lined up with the previous hole, so you can drill a #40 or whatever hole right through the center of the tube. Hope this helps, Bill Schertz Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 08:45:02 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Drilling Holes in tubing Dick Finn asks: "I've been spending the last week building the control system. I have had some difficulty in drilling centered holes in the tubing and am wondering if any of you have any suggestions." This always seemed to be a problem for me too. I bought some relatively inexpensive Vee Blocks from Harbor Freight. I put the block in the cross vise, leveled it then setr it so the pilot drill was exactly over the bottom of the vee. Then I would dimple to tube with a punch and then clamp the tube in the vee block and carefully drill it through. Seemed to work okay if you take your time. My $.02 Bob Misterka N342RM Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:12:14 -0500 From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Drilling Holes in tubing In a message dated 97-01-02 22:20:09 EST, Dick Finn writes: << I have had some difficulty in drilling centered holes in the tubing and am wondering if any of you have any suggestions. >> Two short (10") pieces of angle welded together, or bondo-ed together to a board, in the shape of an "M" can be clamped to the drill press. With the bit centered in the V of the M, and some supports or jackstands, it should make a fairly accurate jig for the holes, if everything is set up square, plumb, and level. Hope this helps, Steve Miles Cozy MkIV 272 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:48:16 -0500 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Chap 16 -- Drilling Holes in tubing Many thanks for the great suggestions on drilling my centered holes. It appears that the best solution will be to order the vee-blocks from Harbor Freight. I'll do that as soon as I log off. As a further note, the plans call for cutting the various pieces to connect the control stick top the elevators to specific lengths. The parts for the aileron torque tubes are specified to be cut long and fitted in place. I suggest that you mount the canard with the elevators in place and then measure the length needed. I found that I needed to add about .5 inchs in order to thread the MM4 Rod Ends far enough into the CS1A Rod End Insers. The legths specified would worked but I would have had most of the threads exposed on the rod ends. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:17:11 -0500 From: Allegro816@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: dont do it! Stick Grip DFin wrote: Buy some spray foam insulation or use pour foam letting the excess flow out over your hand. Trim things up and I'd think you would have a custom grip form. Don't do it! You will burn your hand, been there! That stuff gets hotter than you think. Really, stiff micro and the same technique does a great job. The loads on the stick can get pretty high, and you will be better off not having foam under there to crush anyway. Micro Works. It sets up (west Syst.) very quickly, is easy to smooth and takes a paint job. RDB Cozy 22AZ From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chapter 16 - hints/comments Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 14:53:51 EST People; Having just about completed the control system (chapter 16) I thought I'd fill you in on a few things I've found. TIPS: 1) The nylaflow tubing for the rudder cable conduits came coiled up pretty tight. I was able to straighten it out by dunking it in boiling water, and pulling on both ends while it was hot. This made it a lot easier to run the cables over the electrical conduits. 2) Speaking of electrical conduits, I taped the foam plugs (with packing tape over them) directly to the sides of the fuselage and laid the 2 BID over them in place. This guaranteed that the conduits would conform to the shape of the fuselage sides. The plans call for laying them up on the worktable, but I could see a conformance nightmare ahead :-). 3) As with the wing torque tube bearings, I used Delrin (tm) for the torque tube bearings in the fuselage. Works fine - infinitely better than phenolic. 4) If you order your material for this chapter from Wicks, make sure you check the material list carefully. Wicks has some 4130 tubing called out as 0.028" wall, rather than the correct 0.035" wall. I corrected them (and they sent me a new tube for shipping charges only), but if you just order the chapter kit, make sure you get the right tube. 5) The belcrank in the wing root (shown in chapter 19, but installed in chapter 16) is held between two aluminum brackets. These brackets are bolted to the wings with AN3-5A bolts. Unless I'm nuts :-), I couldn't find these bolts in either the CH 19 or CH 16 material lists - they don't seem to exist anywhere, either in the COZY MKIV plans or in the Wicks material lists. You need 8 of them (along with the associated washers and nuts), so remember to order more of these with the chapter order. QUESTION: 1) OK, so I've got the extension tube riveted on the control stick pivot. Let's assume that I'm going to have some electrical stuff in the stick, and will need to carry the wires down into the armrest. How do you route the wires? The bottom of the stick is blocked with the welded section of the pivot. Do you just drill a hole (or a couple of holes) near the bottom of the stick and snake the wires through the holes? Do you somehow drill out the bottom of the stick? What have others done? Thanks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Epplin_John_A@hpmail1.90.deere.com Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 14:21:09 -0600 Subject: COZY: Chapter 16 - hints/comments > 5) The belcrank in the wing root (shown in chapter 19, but installed in > chapter 16) is held between two aluminum brackets. These brackets > are bolted to the wings with AN3-5A bolts. Unless I'm nuts :-), I > couldn't find these bolts in either the CH 19 or CH 16 material lists > - they don't seem to exist anywhere, either in the COZY MKIV plans or > in the Wicks material lists. You need 8 of them (along with the > associated washers and nuts), so remember to order more of these with > the chapter order. I made my own bellcranks. The large hole for the bearing is dimensioned to .75 in. on the plans. I was real proud of the job as it was the first I had done with a CNC machine more or less on my own. When the bearings arrived from Wicks, guess what- they need a .875 + hole. No big deal but if you are going to make your own, you might mark up the print. Make sure you chamfer one side to clear the fillet in the bearing asembly. I also could not find the bolts called out in the material list. John Epplin Mk4 #467 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:37:18 -0500 (EST) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 16 - hints/comments In a message dated 97-01-27 14:56:05 EST, marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Marc J. Zeitlin) writes: << I taped the foam plugs (with packing tape over them) directly to the sides of the fuselage and laid the 2 BID over them in place. >> Nifty idea!!! I laid up the electrical conduit yesterday and think Marc's ides is super for obtaining the correct bend. I thought I was being clever with my method by laying up as follows: 1. I ripped a piece of 2x4 into 1 1/8" x 1" strips, rounded the top edges and covered with duct Tape (the Handyman's Friend). 2. I nailed the two strips side by side on the table over a a piece of saran wrap with a two inch gap between them. 3. I stapled pieces of peel ply (1" in either side and 2" in the middle) on the table. This will provide a nice bonding surface for attachment to the fuselage. 4. I cut the cloth (13" x about 65") and laid up two plys on another part of the bench over a piece of saran wrap. 5. I then folded the strip lengthwise picked the whole thing up and laid it over the forms, unfolded it and stippled it into position. I had a little difficulty getting the bubbles out (especially with the start of the Super Bowl rushing me) but it seemed to come out OK. The wood form is obviously overkill but I had been talking to a buddy who will be doing this soon so he can use the form for his conduit. I laid up both conduits together as it allowed me to cut a single strip of glass. I found there is always waste if I have to cut multiple pieces as it is necessary to cut oversize. Hopefully it will bend into shape against the fuselage side without kinking. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:50:30 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: Cozy: chapter 16 I drilled the bottom of my tube and routed the wires through it and down around the torque tube. I then routed it forward to the instrument panel. The wires were small diameter so it wasnt a real problem. Paul Burkhardt Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 08:11:40 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 16 - hints/comments Mark Z asked "The bottom of the stick is blocked with the welded section of the pivot. Do you just drill a hole (or a couple of holes) near the bottom of the stick and snake the wires through the holes?" I drilled a hole through the top of the pivot, inside the tube welded to the top of it. Snaked wires from my PTT switch down through the hole. I was concerned about chafing on the metal edge of the hole so I put a small rubber grommet in the hole. Getting the grommet in was a pain in the ...! Bob Misterka N342RM Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:19:21 -0500 From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Chapter 16 - hints/comments Message text written by "Marc J. Zeitlin" > QUESTION: 1) OK, so I've got the extension tube riveted on the control stick pivot. Let's assume that I'm going to have some electrical stuff in the stick, and will need to carry the wires down into the armrest. How do you route the wires? The bottom of the stick is blocked with the welded section of the pivot. Do you just drill a hole (or a couple of holes) near the bottom of the stick and snake the wires through the holes? Do you somehow drill out the bottom of the stick? What have others done? Thanks. --< Marc, I welded a 3/4 piece of tubinf in place of the original 1/2" and cut a slot in the forward side of the tube Rick Roberts Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:56:49 -0500 (EST) From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: Inexpensive universals Been able to save a significant amount of change during this construction process, usually by making my own instead of buying from Brock. Well, I thought I could do the same with the two universal joints that splice the aileron torque tubes. I tried using a socket wrench type of universal. Came up with good method of adapting it, looked promising. Wasn't till I started testing it that I found out how bad this idea was. When a load was applied to the torque tube, there suddenly developed a LOT of slop. It appears that all mfg's of these universals go to extra effort to include this slop. Apparantly the universals need to be flexible in more that just two axis. Aileron flutter waiting to happen. So x-nay on the socket wrench universal idea. Looked at many different types, all have this slop. Any other methods? What's this wag-aero universal for $20 instead of the normal $60? Would appreciate any ideas. -al Mark IV 53% complete, but sure looks more like 90% Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:26:55 -0500 From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" Subject: Re: COZY: Inexpensive universals At 9:56 AM -0500 3/25/97, AlWick@aol.com wrote: >Any other methods? What's this wag-aero universal for $20 instead of the >normal $60? >Would appreciate any ideas. There are a couple of other sources that I can think of pursuing. Dillsburg advertises some universals in his price list. I don't have the list, but a call could sure get you the price and availability. The other avenue is to check on where the local race car builders get their universals. They use very similar parts for steering systems, I believe. Dave -- David R. Kuechenmeister Long-EZ #779 (770)528-7738 Atlanta, Georgia Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:26:25 -0500 (EST) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Inexpensive universals In a message dated 97-03-25 10:23:43 EST, AlWick@aol.com writes: << Been able to save a significant amount of change during this construction process, usually by making my own instead of buying from Brock. >> You can buy the universal joints from Wicks or AS&S. As with Al I've built my own parts whenever possible rather then buying from Brock. I have two problems with Ken Brock: - As I've stated before, I feel that Ken Brock is out to rip off the home builders. He's the sole source for many of the things we need and seems to feel this gives him license to charge whatever he wants. I'm not saying this behind his back -- at Oshkosh last year I confronted him with specific examples from his catalogue when he stated to me that he had not had a price increase in over a year. - My second concern is with quality. I've heard horror stories about cracks in his engine mounts. A more recent case is his replacement of the CS1 inserts with new pieces designated CS50. These inserts are part of the aileron control system. They are 1/4" shorter then the specifications for the CS1. This causes a problem with inserting two rivets while leaving enough room tp screw in the MM-3's. Further, the tolerance on the diameter was +/- .001. The ones he sent me were all out by .01. Thank God they were all .01 to big, not too small. As a side note, I am finishing off the control system and have started putting together a relatively lengthly list of things I learned from the process for the mailing list. Novel to follow. Producers interested in film rights should contact me now. While there are several sources for a number of the parts Brock is still the only place you can buy everything. It would sure be nice if the market were large enough to lure someone else into the buisness. I would guess that many of the parts would be common to the AeroCanard, Berkut or possibly the Velocity. If its not out of line for this forum could I ask where these guys buy there stuff. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM From: Epplin_John_A@hpmail1.90.deere.com Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 18:36:02 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy: Wing construction > > >Just for the sake of discussion, there has been much on the control torque > >tube bearings in the past. I will add another .02 to the issue. I am > >thinking of using the phenolic blocks specified in the plans but enlarging > > This is certainly an improvement over the stock setup, but I would pose one > more thing for you to consider, John. The torque tube doesn't pass through > the hole in the bearing at a right angle. Furthermore, as the aileron is > deflected, that angle changes. The outboard end of the tube sweeps through > an arc, while simultaneously rotating. I believe the proper term for this > type of motion is "it neutates" (but I could be wrong). Anyway, you get > the point. A self-aligning spherical bearing takes care of these problems. > I am using one made by Pobco of Worcester, Mass. that has a teflon center, > in a stainless retainer. It is about as fire-restant as I could find. I > bought it so long ago, that I don't remember where I got it, but perhaps a > search of Thomas's Register, or the Web would turn it up. > > Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 > > Agreed for the wing application. I was considering the nyliner for the tubes in fuse. I have some oilite bearings mounted in pressed steel housings that are the self-aligning type left over from another project. 5/8 bore by coincidence. They weigh 1.3 oz each. I think I will at least use these at the firewall. I am not sure of using them as thrust bearings at the forward end though. John Epplin Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 13:56:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: COZY: Control Cables Question I just found out yesterday that my control cables are galvanized as opposed to stainless steel. AS I was told, a magnet will stick to galvanized but not the stainless. I was sent the plated sleeves but will have to get copper if I use the galvanized. Question: Is there any compelling reason to NOT use the galvanized in my Long-EZ? Ron Lee From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves Date: Thu, 5 Jun 97 17:03:39 EDT People; A while back I asked about Nicopress sleeve checking, and was informed that there's a gauge available (~$4 from ACS) for testing the squished (technical term) sleeves. I got said gauge, checked my sleeves, and they all are squished at least the appropriate amount, according to the cheap sheet metal gauge :-). Anyway, my question is, is there any other way to tell if you've got the appropriate squish on the sleeve? I had one sleeve pull out when the landing brake handle mysteriously slammed down (due to my dim-witted friend letting go - hence my experimentation [not finished yet] with a hydraulic damper on the handle). They don't quite LOOK like they're squished all the way around the doubled 1/16" cable (at the bottom of a thimble) even though the gauge says they are, but I'm not sure exactly what I should see - I guess I need to see a known good sleeve and compare. What should I be looking for? Maybe the amount of force the pulled-out sleeve saw due to the impact force of the handle slamming down was much greater than the specification for the sleeve - I don't know - and I'm worrying about nothing. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:50:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves At 17:03 97/6/05 EDT, you wrote: >People; > >A while back I asked about Nicopress sleeve checking, and was informed >that there's a gauge available (~$4 from ACS) for testing the squished >(technical term) sleeves. I got said gauge, checked my sleeves, and they >all are squished at least the appropriate amount, according to the cheap >sheet metal gauge :-). > SNIP >Maybe the amount of force the pulled-out sleeve saw due to the impact >force of the handle slamming down was much greater than the specification >for the sleeve - I don't know - and I'm worrying about nothing. > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Very valid question. Considering that you have primary control surfaces secures with the same sleeves, it seems important. Perhaps the force of the landing brake/handle was mucho more, but who knows. Perhaps it makes sense to use dual sleeves?????? Ron Lee by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-7 #17060) with SMTP id <01IJQ2M7V2W29EXTSP@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:55:31 EST Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 18:55:46 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves Organization: AEROCAD INC. Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > Anyway, my question is, is there any other way to tell if you've got the > appropriate squish on the sleeve? I had one sleeve pull out when the > landing brake handle mysteriously slammed down (due to my dim-witted > friend letting go - hence my experimentation [not finished yet] with a > hydraulic damper on the handle). I had the same thing happen to me in my 3 place Cozy on a landing flair. The cable came out of the sleeve and the brake came in. When I used to fly ultralights that used lots of the sleeves and cables, we always doubled squeeze on both ends of the sleeve. If the cable was used as part of a wing strut it had double sleeves installed. I never saw this problem of slippage on them. The Cozy got two sleeves for the fix. -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-7 #16063) with SMTP id <01IJPWG6SQ02000QUH@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:58:54 PDT Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:01:55 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves >People; > >A while back I asked about Nicopress sleeve checking, and was informed >that there's a gauge available (~$4 from ACS) for testing the squished >(technical term) sleeves. I got said gauge, checked my sleeves, and they >all are squished at least the appropriate amount, according to the cheap >sheet metal gauge :-). > >Anyway, my question is, is there any other way to tell if you've got the >appropriate squish on the sleeve? I had one sleeve pull out when the >landing brake handle mysteriously slammed down (due to my dim-witted >friend letting go - hence my experimentation [not finished yet] with a >hydraulic damper on the handle). > >They don't quite LOOK like they're squished all the way around the >doubled 1/16" cable (at the bottom of a thimble) even though the gauge >says they are, but I'm not sure exactly what I should see - I guess I >need to see a known good sleeve and compare. What should I be looking >for? > >Maybe the amount of force the pulled-out sleeve saw due to the impact >force of the handle slamming down was much greater than the specification >for the sleeve - I don't know - and I'm worrying about nothing. > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Marc, Something is wrong with this picture. A properly swaged nicopress sleeve should not fail. The cable should part, before it pulls apart! The only suggestion I can make is to check the cable to be sure that it is the correct one for the sleeves in use. If you do get a chance to look at another sleeve that is properly swaged, try to find one with the same cable diameter, and take your micrometer, for comparison. It is possible that you have some undersized cable. Also, I find that the answers to a great number of very generic aircraft questions I hear on this forum are readily available and gathered together in a wonderful volume called AC 4313-1A, the A&P's handy dandy general reference book. It is available, dirt cheap, from the government printing office, and perhaps more conveniently from most of the usual aviation book-supply places, as well as ACS and Wicks (I believe). It is crammed full of useful information, such as everything you wanted to know about nicopress sleeves, for example. I would consider it mandatory for ANYONE building ANY aircraft, and is probably one of the cheapest pieces of equipment you will ever buy, making it a tremendous value. ---Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: norm.doty@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:21:38 -0400 squished cable sleeves, if the cable pulled out then they were NOT properly squished, the cable should be at the breaking point before pulling out. are you only squishing them in 1 spot or more than 1, check the a&p manual they give the correct procedure and number and placment of squishes. if i could remember them exactly id put id down here for you norm cozy IV #202 ---------- > From: Marc J. Zeitlin > To: Cozy MK-IV Builders > Subject: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 5:03 PM > > People; > > A while back I asked about Nicopress sleeve checking, and was informed > that there's a gauge available (~$4 from ACS) for testing the squished > (technical term) sleeves. I got said gauge, checked my sleeves, and they > all are squished at least the appropriate amount, according to the cheap > sheet metal gauge :-). > > Anyway, my question is, is there any other way to tell if you've got the > appropriate squish on the sleeve? I had one sleeve pull out when the > landing brake handle mysteriously slammed down (due to my dim-witted > friend letting go - hence my experimentation [not finished yet] with a > hydraulic damper on the handle). > > They don't quite LOOK like they're squished all the way around the > doubled 1/16" cable (at the bottom of a thimble) even though the gauge > says they are, but I'm not sure exactly what I should see - I guess I > need to see a known good sleeve and compare. What should I be looking > for? > > Maybe the amount of force the pulled-out sleeve saw due to the impact > force of the handle slamming down was much greater than the specification > for the sleeve - I don't know - and I'm worrying about nothing. > > -- > Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves (fwd) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 97 10:51:20 EDT Norm Doty writes: >if the cable pulled out then they were NOT properly squished, the cable >should be at the breaking point before pulling out. I've heard this before, and wonder. The breaking strength of the cable is 480 lbs (for 1/16" stainless) and the rated strength of the Nicopress splice is 550 lbs, but I don't know how they configure it for the test - it's hard for me to believe that on a _straight_ pull (NO THIMBLE) that the cable will fail before the joint. With a cable wrapped around the thimble, and the capstan effect occurring, then I can believe that the cable will fail first since the load on the sleeve will be MUCH, MUCH lower than the 480 lbs. (hence the reason for using a thimble). Maybe the issue here is that the sleeve that failed was the one on the rear pulley of the brake, and does NOT have a thimble - it just has the two ends of the cable coming around a corner into it, and can see pretty much the full load on the cable. Yeah, that's the ticket :-). >........... are you only squishing >them in 1 spot or more than 1, check the a&p manual they give the correct >procedure and number and placment of squishes. I squish (there's got to be a better term for this :-) ) three times - once in the center, and then once on either end. The whole sleeve ends up squished. There's a great web page from MurphyAir at: http://www.murphyair.com/nico.htm Which has a description and pictures of how to properly "crimp" (there's the right word :-) ) the sleeve. As far as I can tell, I'm doing it correctly, and my crimps pass the gauge test. The ONLY difference is that (if you look at the left side of Figure 2 on the web page) their sleeve seems to have two small indentations at the top and bottom of the sleeve - mine have two small ridges. It seems as though the sleeve is crimping slightly to the outside as I compress it, rather than to the inside. We're talking maybe 0.010" to 0.015" ridge here - not much. The more I think about it, the more I think the problem was due to not having a thimble (impossible in this instance) and the concomitant increase in load on the sleeve - all my gauge checks come up green! -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 06:05:46 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 16 - Nicopress sleeves Marc, re "Anyway, my question is, is there any other way to tell if you've got the appropriate squish on the sleeve?" Good question. I did all the swagging on my Long EZ with the cheap hand held swagger and they all held except the landing brake which came apart when I extended the brake on the first flight. I installed 2 the second time and they held. I've double swagged all the swags on my MKIV. It's probably the most practicle answer to the question. dd From: "Steve Campbell" Subject: COZY: Sticks Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:53:10 I just got my side sticks from JD yesterday. Things of beauty. Even if you are years away from installing them, I'd recommend that you buy them. Aside from their eventual function you can screw them down to the arm of your lawn chair. Set it up next to your project and go flying withour fuel or insurance (or in my case, wings). Steve **************************************** Stephen A. Campbell Associate Professor, ECE University of Minnesota ***************************************** From: Epplin John A Subject: COZY: Control cables Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:15:43 -0500 I ordered Nicopress sleeves using the part number in the bill of materials. I received the parts that I ordered and sort of remembered something from my A&P days. Use copper on galvanized cable and zinc plated on stainless cable. Has something to do with corrosion. I looked it up in AC 43.3 and lo and behold paragraph 196, figure 4.8 confirmed my suspicion. I don't know how serious this might be but I intend to get the proper ones before I use them. The number in the plans book is 18-1-C and should be 28-1-C. John epplin Mk4 #467 From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 16:39:40 -0600 Subject: COZY: Ch. 17 - Roll trim and bearings --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc Zeitlin wrote: >In January I posted a note regarding hysteresis in my roll trim and >control sticks. I've finally gotten around to installing a couple of >ball bearings to replace the Delrin bearings (to replace the plans >called out Phenolic bearings :-) ) that I previously had. I chose some >5/8" ID, >1 3/8" OD, .375" thick sealed ball bearings from Grainger (I think) - >they were about $12.75 each, and can be used for both the front and rear >bearings in the control system. I used them just in the front. Yes, I >know that you can get bearing kits for all four bearings (if not all >six) for about $120 or so - I just felt like making my own :-). Marc, I have been thinking seriously about using ball berings for all controls as well. Hadn't spent a lot of time searching for the right ones yet; sounds like you have. Should be a number stamped on the side of the bearings. If you find them, would you please post. Would save me and maybe others a lot of trouble searching for a bearing by dimensions only. Thanks, Larry Schuler #500 Ch 9 lschuler@cellular.uscc.com --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RFC822.TXT" Received: from gatekeep.uscc.com by cellular.uscc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Sep 97 11:48:15 -0600 Return-Path: Received: from www.uscc.com (ns.uscc.com [204.179.101.2]) by gatekeep.uscc.com with ESMTP id MAA07181 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by www.uscc.com with ESMTP id LAA28769 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:45:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hpwarhw.an.hp.com (hpwarhw.an.hp.com [15.57.193.122]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02973 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA29297; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:44:18 -0400 Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA29291; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:44:16 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Message-Id: <9709021644.AA29291@hpwarhw.an.hp.com> Subject: COZY: Ch. 17 - Roll trim and bearings To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Cozy MK-IV Builders) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 12:44:16 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" --simple boundary-- From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Ch. 17 - Roll trim and bearings (fwd) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 97 10:03:41 EDT I wrote: >>...... I chose some 5/8" ID, >>1 3/8" OD, .375" thick sealed ball bearings from Grainger (I think) - >>they were about $12.75 each, and can be used for both the front and rear >>bearings in the control system. Larry Schuler asked; > Should be a number stamped on the side of the bearings. If you find > them, would you please post. Would save me and maybe others a lot of > trouble searching for a bearing by dimensions only. The part number for the bearings from Grainger were: Grainger # 1L040 Cross Reference #'s: NTN # R10-LL SKF # R10-VV FAFNIR # S7NPP This is a sealed bearing. They were about $14/ea. I had the width wrong in my previous post - it's 0.343", not 0.375", but without the two washers, the thickness is just about perfect for the space. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Gunrider@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: COZY: CONDUITS I am trying to lay the electrical and rudder conduits. It appears both have to match or closely match the contour of the side. The plans say "straight and no joggles" - can the rudder conduit travel side to side longitudinally over the top of the electrical conduit? How straight does it have to be...laser straight? The holes in the front seatback are getting large... Thanks, Hugh Farrior From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: CONDUITS (fwd) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 97 16:25:12 EDT Hugh Farrior writes: >The plans say "straight and no joggles" - can the rudder conduit travel side >to side longitudinally over the top of the electrical conduit? >How straight does it have to be...laser straight? The straighter the better - each bend is a bit more friction in the rudder cables. Laser straight is, I'm sure, overkill :-). I was able to soak my tubing in really hot water and pull it out so that it would stay pretty straight - I then taped it to the fuselage sides and 5-min epoxied it in place, and then removed the tape and glassed it. I just had the idea that if you insert the rudder cable in the tube and pull it taut at both ends, you'll pretty much guarantee that the tube will be as straight as it can be as you glue it to the fuselage sides. Another option is to glue the tube to the fuselage sides about in the middle (maybe 1 foot behind the front seatback) and then pull them taut at either end, holding them in place with tape as you glue them along their length. Let us know how well these ideas work, if you decide to try them. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com by post.larc.nasa.gov (8.8.6.1/pohub4.2) with SMTP id JAA17950 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:52:47 -0400 From: Paul Krasa Subject: Re: COZY: CONDUITS (fwd) At 16:25 10/23/97 EDT, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: >Hugh Farrior writes: > >>The plans say "straight and no joggles" - can the rudder conduit travel side >>to side longitudinally over the top of the electrical conduit? >>How straight does it have to be...laser straight? > If I had it all to do over again, I would make straw conduits in the foam from F22 to the main landing gear for the brake lines; another three straw conduits for the throttle, mixture, and carb heat cables, and two copper pipes down each side for the electrical system. This would eliminate the cables, tubes and electrical wires from inside the cabin compartment. Paul Krasa Long EZ 214LP Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:13:31 -0800 From: Stet Elliott Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Andrew J. Amendala wrote (to the Canard Aviators Forum): > It has come to my attention that some pilots have had problems when > using steel control rods (part numbers CS125, CS126, and CS129). I > hear > that they had some sort of harmonic problem and I was wondering what > majority of Long-EZ pilots have aluminum control rods. > For some time they switched to steel, then back to aluminum... > > what's the > current norm? Thanks! > Good question! The switch to steel control rods was to protect the aileron control system in the event of a major engine compartment fire. >From a strength standpoint in normal operations, the aluminum rods are fine. There seems to be a harmonic problem with the steel rods because of their larger mass. There were at least two reports of CS 132L aileron belcrank failure when using the steel tubes, and also abnormal rod end wear. (CS 132L is the belcrank at the end of the aileron torque tube in the wing root). Rutan subsequently redesigned this part to make it much stronger. The new part number is CS 132L-R. If you bought these parts from Brock in the last 10 years or so, they will be the redesigned part. How can you tell which part you have? The old part had one ear and the rodend was bolted to one side. The new part has two ears and the rodend is bolted between them. Of course, redesigning this part did nothing to solve the problem of abnormal wear of the rodends (and possibly the aileron torque tube universals) which reportedly occur with the steel pushrods. For those of you who have access to the Canard Pusher newsletters, see CPs 49, 50, 58, 59 and 60 for information on this subject. What's the current norm? Most other builders I've talked to are sticking with the aluminum control rods, as did I. If you do this, keep in mind that in the event of a major engine compartment fire, you run the risk of losing both rudder and aileron control because of the number of aluminum parts in these systems located in the engine compartment. -- Stet Elliott flyez@earthlink.net Long-EZ N321EF From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:57:55 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to me that a light weight solution to loss of control due to fire might be to install "fire stop" tubing (The same type that is used on fuel lines) over the aluninum push rods. Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this solution? From: "Fred I. Mahan" Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:49:24 -0500 wilhelmson@scra.org said: > I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to > me that a light weight solution to loss of control due to > fire might be to install "fire stop" tubing (The same type > that is used on fuel lines) over the aluninum push rods. > Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this solution? *Bing* That's one of those ideas that make you ask yourself, "Why didn't I think of that?" An excellent idea. Fred in Florida by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-10 #23033) with SMTP id <01IRBIERPTC0000XEV@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:33:56 PST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:35:52 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods >wilhelmson@scra.org said: > >> I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to >> me that a light weight solution to loss of control due to >> fire might be to install "fire stop" tubing (The same type >> that is used on fuel lines) over the aluninum push rods. >> Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this solution? > >*Bing* That's one of those ideas that make you ask yourself, "Why didn't I >think of that?" An excellent idea. > >Fred in Florida Careful! Better WEIGH that fire sleeve. I'll bet that the "shrouded" alumi= num tubes will weigh no less than plain stainless tubes. One possible alternative I thought of, was to use the Ocean=AE ablative paint on the tubes. In fact, I was considering painting my stainless tubes with this stuff! Belt and suspenders? --Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:17:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Mahon writes I think the only ones to be concerned with are the ones near the engine compartment, those from the cranks on the aft side of the firewall to the cranks on the end of the aileron torque tubes, and those should be 4130 steel tubing PERIOD. If you get a fire somewhere else, If you melt the tubes, that amount of fire in the cockpit is going to be a much greater problem due to fumes and smoke and heat. From: Boatfly Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:09:44 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) In a message dated 97-12-19 01:52:34 EST, wilhelmson@scra.org writes: >The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] >I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to me that a >light weight solution to loss of control due to fire might be to install >"fire stop" tubing (The same type that is used on fuel lines) over the >aluminum push rods. Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this >solution? > > how about looking under the cowling to make sure there's nothing to start a fire.I think if we have enough fire to burn aluminum we may have bigger problems then no pushrods? Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:19:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Mr. Radon" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Last time I looked I saw a few fuel lines, structure, ect... On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Boatfly wrote: > In a message dated 97-12-19 01:52:34 EST, wilhelmson@scra.org writes: > > >The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] > >I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to me that a > >light weight solution to loss of control due to fire might be to install > >"fire stop" tubing (The same type that is used on fuel lines) over the > >aluminum push rods. Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this > >solution? > > > > > > how about looking under the cowling to make sure there's nothing to start a > fire.I think if we have enough fire to burn aluminum we may have bigger > problems then no pushrods? > From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:56:46 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Thanks for pros and cons on the "fire Stop" idea. It appears that the steel tubes add enough mass to unbalance the dynamics of the aileron control system, causing it to have a high wear problem. A further "fire stop" idea would be to use large enough tubing such that any high acceleration movement would not be transmitted to the fire stop tubing (it would slide on the push rods) and therefore would be removed from the dynamic damping equation. I intend to try this, and will report any results I observe. The dynamic balance of the ailerion system on most Rutan derivation's is very critical. The evidence of this is the high wear rate of the aileron hinges. Anyone flying one has probably seen the gray aluminium residue that streams back on the aileron. Teflon hinge pin liners stop the wear, but the dynamic vibration is still there. DEAR BOATFLY: I looked under the cowling as you suggested to see if there is anything to start a fire. Sure enough, I found fuel lines (very inflammable when they leak), I also found lots of epoxy resin that also burns under direct flame. If I remove these items I am sure the problem will be solved. Thanks for the suggestion. From: "astrong" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:28:35 -0800 If I remember right , the incident that prompted the replacement of the torque tubes ( not rods) from alum. to steel happened this way. There was no lose of aileron control while landing, the melt down occurred when the plane was on the ground and standing still, apparently the fire was deflected by the airflow away from the firewall. I have an alum. and fibrefrax cover that shields the wing root and CS-129 from the engine compartment, I could not find it in the plans, might be a plans change in a news letter. For whats its worth!! Alex ---------- > From: Boatfly > To: wilhelmson@scra.org; flyez@earthlink.net; canard-aviators@canard.com; cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods > Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 12:09 AM > > In a message dated 97-12-19 01:52:34 EST, wilhelmson@scra.org writes: > > >The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] > >I have the aluminum pushrods on my airplane, It occurred to me that a > >light weight solution to loss of control due to fire might be to install > >"fire stop" tubing (The same type that is used on fuel lines) over the > >aluminum push rods. Does anyone have any ideas pro or con on this > >solution? > > > > > > how about looking under the cowling to make sure there's nothing to start a > fire.I think if we have enough fire to burn aluminum we may have bigger > problems then no pushrods? Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:39:44 -0800 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Organization: INFINITY Aerospace http://www.flash.net/~infaero Subject: COZY: Re: Aileron Control Rods Hi Alex and All, >Alex Strong wrote:< >I have an alum. and fibrefrax cover that shields the wing root and CS-129 from the engine compartment, I could not find it in the plans, might be a plans change in a news letter.< Chapter 23, Engine Installation, of the Long-EZ plans shows how to make the mandatory aluminum wing root shield. We used 2 thin sheets of stainless steel with fibrefax sandwiched in-between. Infinity's Forever, JD From: "Fred I. Mahan" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:36:42 -0500 Howard Rogers said: > > When Rutan covered this problem, he changed the balance requirements for the > ailerons, in a plans-change. If these specs are adhered to, the heavier > steel control rods have not been a problem for those EZ fliers I know who > have taken care of this the way Rutan calls for. Does anyone have a reference to the CP in which this change was called for, and what the changed balance specs are? For the Cozy folks, does Nat call for steel on the aileron pushrods? Fred in Florida by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-10 #23033) with SMTP id <01IRD7GIIDTM0000S1@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:42:20 PST Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:44:17 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods > I think if we have enough fire to burn aluminum we may have bigger > problems then no pushrods? I could not disagree more. It is astounding how LITTLE fire it takes to melt a thin wall aluminum tube. I could easily imagine a scenario where a fuel leak starts a fire that melts your primary roll-control, is extinquished soon after you shut off the fuel valve, leaving you with a death grip on a very floppy joystick, thinking about how unpleasant the uncommanded rolls are, in your otherwise-completely-intact airplane. When Rutan covered this problem, he changed the balance requirements for the ailerons, in a plans-change. If these specs are adhered to, the heavier steel control rods have not been a problem for those EZ fliers I know who have taken care of this the way Rutan calls for. It does not seem appropriate to me to ressurect a problem that has a solution that already seems to cover ALL the bases. Also, to my knowledge, not EVERYONE'S rod end bearings wear prematurely. If they do, it might be prudent to remove the ailerons, and recheck their balance against the plans-change specs, and perhaps dig into the rest of the aileron circuit to inspect for other sources of slop or play. Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: "astrong" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:08:39 -0800 ---------- > From: Fred I. Mahan > To: Cozy Builders' List > Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods > Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 6:36 PM > > Howard Rogers said: > > > > When Rutan covered this problem, he changed the balance requirements for > the > > ailerons, in a plans-change. If these specs are adhered to, the heavier > > steel control rods have not been a problem for those EZ fliers I know who > > have taken care of this the way Rutan calls for. > > Does anyone have a reference to the CP in which this change was called for, > and what the changed balance specs are? For the Cozy folks, does Nat call > for steel on the aileron pushrods? > > Fred in Florida > Fred, The cp that references the change to steel is #50,For the cozy group it is newsletter #16 page 2. Alex Strong Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:49:40 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods Fred, re " For the Cozy folks, does Nat call for steel on the aileron pushrods?" Yes. dd From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Aileron Control Rods (fwd) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 97 13:51:56 EST Fred Mahan wrote: >....... For the Cozy folks, does Nat call >for steel on the aileron pushrods? The COZY MKIV plans call out all steel control rods in the engine compartment. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com