Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:22:58 -0500 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 12 -- Canard Install Experiences In a message dated 96-12-31 02:12:51 EST, CozyBldr@aol.com writes: << I read the plans that the .1" gap is around the elevator torque tube. What is everyone else using as a gap between the canard and the fuselage? It seems some gap is necessary to allow for expansion but .1" sounds too big. Anyone else with an opinion? >> Paul, I did make a .1 inch gap around the rear of the torque tube. However, it seems to me that if you continue around the fron it will be impossible to slide the canard forward to get it off of the alignment pins. Could be that I'm missing something and will be interested to hear other peoples response. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:25:32 -0500 From: Phillip.Johnson@kan.lmcda.lmco.com (Phillip Johnson) Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 12 -- Canard Install Experiences Dick Finn Writes, > I did make a .1 inch gap around the rear of the torque tube. > However, it seems to me that if you continue around the front it > will be impossible to slide the canard forward to get it off of the > alignment pins. Could be that I'm missing something and will be > interested to hear other peoples response. After I installed my canard the first time I found it almost impossible to remove, boy did I get in a panic. The problem is that the better the quality of the workmanship, the more difficult it is to remove since the design relies on fact that there is some slop between the pin and the insert, and the surrounding structure. I didn't like this arrangement so I removed the pins, drilled the holes right through (down the length of) the doublers and installed steel inserts using flox. I then installed nut plates on the forward side of the Canard rear tabs. I used long, about 3", AN3 bolts to attach the canard through these newly installed inserts. The benefits are: 1) Very easy to install and remove canard, 2) Impossible for one of the pins to come out of the socket in flight, there has been a case where this has happened in a long or vari-eze. 3) Added mechanical security. If a lift tab were ever to break the added security afforded by the two extra attachments may be sufficient to get you down. 4) Minimise fatigue of the lift tabs. 5) Improve watertight and airtight sealing. Most people who have seen the installation seem to agree that it is an improvement over the existing arrangement. One person suggested that in a new installation, where the rear tabs are not yet installed, the tabs could be moved inwards about 1.5" and the second insert could be installed through F28 right in the corner near the doubler, instead of through the doubler. This would require less steel (weight) whilst retaining the strength of the corner. This puts the rear tab further from the skin. Phillip Johnson Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:51:10 EST From: "Larry Schuler" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 12 -- Canard Install Experiences Phillip wrote: >snip >I didn't like this arrangement so I removed the pins, drilled the >holes right through (down the length of) the doublers and installed >steel inserts using flox. I then installed nut plates on the forward >side of the Canard rear tabs. I used long, about 3", AN3 bolts to >attach the canard through these newly installed inserts. >snip Phillip, I just finished catching up on a bit over a month's worth of e-mails that I had put off reading for a number of reasons (one, my father passed away early in December). This recent post caught my eye. As you know, I have your video and I have liked this idea from the time I saw it. One question: Perhaps your doublers are diferent since you have an early plans set, but the rear end of mine are slanted at about 45 Deg. If your's are the same, how did you handle the slant to accomodate the bolts? Seems to me it would be fairly easy to flox and BID-tape some small pieces of spruce to these to square them up for bolts; then drill and install the tubing you describe. Larry Schuler MKIV-#500 ch-6; taping the bottom joints (finally!). Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:26:26 -0700 (MST) From: Ron Lee Subject: COZY: Intro and New Canard Question I have been on this list about two weeks and enjoy the opportunity to take advantage of the expertise of the participants. I started a Long-EZ a LOOOOONG time ago, stopped working on it to build a house, then apathy set in. Am restarting so That I can have something to fly. I am rebuilding the canard and have a question on drilling the new lift tabs, but first I will explain why I am redoing the canard. When the cores were hot-wired, I had a Vari-EZ builder help me cut tehm at his house. We made the first cut then FLIPPED the foam over to do the second cut. While making the surface layups, I noticed a depresssion in the cores. This was due to the work table not be flat when the cores were hotwired PLUS flipping the cores over. The morale is do not flip the foam. Even if the foam cores were not perfect, it should have been possible to jig the foam such that the bend would have been removed. Instead, I filled in the depressions with extra glass. Now I am concerned that it will have unpredictable consequences during periods of high loading so I am rebuilding the canard to be safe. My question is that the new lift tabs do not have the bolt hole at the bottom. The reason is that the aluminum pieces through that bulkhead (F22?) are already inserted. Once I build the canard and set it in place, set the incidence and level it, I will have to drill through the lift tab for the bolt. The Roncz canard plans do mention a method but being uncertain about it, I would like to know if anyone has done this and how. I only have one chance per lift tab! Ron Lee Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:28:53 -0500 From: Phillip.Johnson@kan.lmcda.lmco.com (phillip johnson) Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 12 -- Canard Install Experiences Larry Schuler Writes: > One question: Perhaps your doublers are diferent since you have an > early plans set, but the rear end of mine are slanted at about 45 > Deg. If your's are the same, how did you handle the slant to > accomodate the bolts? Mine are the same as yours. When I drilled the doubler I drilled it oversize to accommodate a steel insert the same diameter as the one you use in the rear tabs. I think that they had an OD of 3/8 or something like that. Now when you flox them in place in the doubler ensure that they are long enough to extend beyond the 45 degree back end of the doubler so that you can now get an AN3 bolt to register against the now parallel face of the insert. Phillip Johnson Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:26:24 -0500 (EST) From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Intro and New Canard Question In a message dated 97-01-08 10:37:54 EST, Ron Lee writes: > My question is that the new lift tabs do not have the bolt hole > at the bottom. The reason is that the aluminum pieces through > that bulkhead (F22?) are already inserted. Once I build the > canard and set it in place, set the incidence and level it, I will > have to drill through the lift tab for the bolt. The Roncz canard > plans do mention a method but being uncertain about it, I would > like to know if anyone has done this and how. I only have one > chance per lift tab! Canard Pusher Newsletter #47 gives a suggestion. The article is reprinted in its entirety below: ---------------------- Judge King, Long-EZ N350JK has just completed his new R1145MS canard, which he retro-fitted to his Long-EZ. He has an easy way to transfer the existing 1/4" diameter holes in the F-22 bulkhead to the aft face of the new undrilled NC-CLT aluminum lift tabs. 1. Fit your new canard per plans, be sure the water line is level with the top longeron level (correct incidence). 2. Remove the canard and paint a thin film of oil around the hole in the F-22 bulkhead. Spray a coat of any color paint on top of this oil film about 2" diameter around the 1/4" holes. 3. Obtain some foam tape with stick on both sides (1/8" thick 3M double stick foam tape works great). Stick this on the aft face of the NC-CLT lift tab centered roughly over the area where the hole will be. 4. Install the canard and clamp the NC-CLT lift tabs firmly against the F-22. Remove the canard. The paint will now be on the sticky surface of the foam tape and a perfect impression of the 1/4" diameter hole will be clearly visible. 5. Now make a drill guide out of 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" piece of 1/8" aluminum scrap. Drill a 1/4" diameter hole through it. Lay it on the foam tape, exactly centering the guide hole over the paint impression location of the hole. Clamp this drill guide to the NC-CLT using two small 'C' clamps. 6. Drill through the drill guide, through the foam tape and through the NC-CLT, both left and right and presto! You have a perfectly matched canard to F-22 bulkhead. ---------------------- Stet Elliott Perpetual Long-EZ builder Publisher, "Canard Pusher Digest for the Long-EZ", and the "Electronic CP" (Canard Pusher newsletters on disk) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:53:40 -0500 (EST) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Intro and New Canard Question In a message dated 97-01-14 09:30:28 EST, StetsonE@aol.com writes: << Drill through the drill guide, through the foam tape and through the NC-CLT, both left and right and presto! You have a perfectly matched canard to F-22 bulkhead. >> Hi Stet, First off, congratulations on getting to the airport. I'm afraid I've got a long way to go yet. When I started I estimated this at a five year effort. I'm now five years into the project and find that my estimate is dead on -- I should be finishing in five more years. :-) Regarding mounting a new canard and drilling the holes. I just completed mounting mine and found that, like the landing gear mounting holes, tolerances are very close. I have never had much luck with centering holes over 1/4" circles. I don't think the problem is a matter of the level of care I take, I do spend a lot of time and effort on maintaining accuracy. It seems that if you are off just a smidgen (technical measurement term) the bolts won't go through all the holes. Further, on a new canard it is possible that the lift tabs are cocked slightly different from the original canard. This would negatively affect the incidence. The above alignment problem is even worse when working with the landing gear. If the holes in the bulkheads are off more then 1/16 of a smidgen the attach bolts won't go through. Despite great care my bolts are prettly snug. I would think your solution would work great for the intial placement of the holes in the lift tabs. Beyond that you would need to remove the nut plates and mounting piece of aluminum from F22, the CN2 bushings and slightly widen the hole. You would also have to sand down the pad of glass on the forward side of F22 which was built out when you set the incidence. From that point you could proceed according to the plans on mounting the canard while you put everything back in place. I may be making more out of this then necessary but I think an exact fit on the holes is important. If you are off it would seem to me that the tight fit would cause stresses on the lift tabs that could lead to a fracture. The above analysis is guaranteed to be worth every penny you paid for it. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:56:13 -0500 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Intro and New Canard Question In a message dated 97-01-14 16:42:13 EST, Dick Finn writes: > Regarding mounting a new canard and drilling the holes. I just completed > mounting mine and found that, like the landing gear mounting holes, > tolerances are very close. I have never had much luck with centering holes > over 1/4" circles. I don't think the problem is a matter of the level of > care I take, I do spend a lot of time and effort on maintaining accuracy. It > seems that if you are off just a smidgen (technical measurement term) the > bolts won't go through all the holes. Further, on a new canard it is > possible that the lift tabs are cocked slightly different from the original > canard. This would negatively affect the incidence. I agree with you Dick. The suggestions I posted were from the Canard Pusher newsletters, and weren't mine. Like many of RAF's suggestions, this one lacked the precision most of us demand. I think if I were to do it, I'd find a 1/4" aluminum or steel rod that fit into the F22 bushings with very little play. Then take a 1" section of the rod to a machinist to bore a precisely centered 1/8" hole in the rod. Use the rod as a drill guide to drill a 1/8" pilot hole into the lift tab with the canard incidence correctly set on the airplane. Then take the canard off, find a bunch of friends to hold the canard on a drill press, and drill the 1/4" hole with a 12" bit. Alot of work, but if carefully done, this technique might give the precision necessary for the task. Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Elevator CAD files Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 10:21:04 EST People; Thanks to Ed Richards, we now have a zipped CAD DXF file available on the web pages at: http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/cozy_mkIV/cad_files/ and from the mailing list server (see the "cad_files" directory when doing an "index"). Thanks, Ed! -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com