Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 00:13:26 -0500 From: Sam Pavel Subject: COZY: Novice Screw-up Greetings, I've done a really stupid thing while building the fuselage sides. My first thought was to study the flash point of epoxy and foam. However, I then decided to swallow my pride and seek advice from the learned gathering of canard builders. I've invested a lot of time in those puppies. OK, here's what I did..... I built the upper longerons per plans in the jigs (i.e. I overlapped each end). So far, so good. The problem occurred when I placed the longeron on the foam. I failed to use the same overlap. Needless to say, the doublers and stiffeners on the upper longeron are about 1" too far aft. I discovered this when I measured the location of F28. The 5.9 inches doesn't quite make it to the doubler. Therefore, I pose this question: Am I screwed? Is it possible to epoxy and piece to the end of the 5.5" doubler. Or, should I just bite the bullet and start over? Any advice would be appreciated. Humbly, Sam P.S. Hey Marc, I like the new look of the homepage! :-) Sam Pavel 53230 Oakton Drive Cozy MkIV plans #544 South Bend, IN 46635 Chapter 6 (219)273-0321 email: pavel.1@nd.edu Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:25:48 -0700 (MST) From: Ron Lee Subject: COZY: F28 wood doubler too short Someone just asked a question about the short doubler that F28 butts up against. It is too short and does not reach up to FL 28. This is my opinion based on my LONG-EZ. Others are welcome to correct me. If in doubt, ask the designer. That piece of wood later gets a aligning bolt for the canard. As such, the structural loads on it would seem to be minimal. Personally, I would patch another piece of wood to make up the shortfall, using wet flox, which is very strong. If possible scarfing the joint (cut at angle) might help but may be unnecessary. I would also add one or two extra plies of BID along the area of the top longeron onto the interior fuselage. Maybe even an extra one onto the F28 bulkhead. Once you do that. you would need a sledgehammer to get it apart and then it would likely require complete destruction of the entire area. Ron Lee Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:52:11 -0500 (EST) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Novice Screw-up In a message dated 97-03-01 00:24:39 EST, Samuel.R.Pavel.1@nd.edu (Sam Pavel) writes: << Is it possible to epoxy and piece to the end of the 5.5" doubler. Or, should I just bite the bullet and start over? Any advice would be appreciated. >> Sam, I think your options are: 1. Start over on the sides. I would say this is absolutely un necessary. 2. Cut off the upper longeron for the length of the fuselage, rebuild the longeron and reattach. Again, I don't think this is necessary. 3. Butt a piece of spruce against the forward edge of the short longeron, flox it in place and glass over it. I think this is reasonable as the piece only receives an alignment pin from the canard and does not seem to be under any stress. Past experience with woodworking indicates that a glue joint tends to be stronger then the wood. The only time this isn't true is when you are gluing end grain to end grain. This type of glue joint is quite weak. This leads to the fourth choice (and my recommendation). 4. Make a scarf joint matching the added on piece to the existing longeron. Flox it in place and glass over the piece. To make a scarf joint you would taper the end of the longeron back for four or five inchs. You would also taper the add on piece. Basically you would be placing two wedges together. This is not as good as face gluing but it beats the heck out of gluing end grain. A while back there was an article in either Kitplanes or Sport Aviation relating to scarf joints. This article was specific to using the joint on a spar. It its good enough for a spar it should be more then adequate for this application. The added work in making a scarf joint is minimal and I think you'll sleep better with a stronger joint. Dick Finn Cozy mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:04:55 -0600 (CST) From: wkasty@ix.netcom.com (william g kastenholz) Subject: COZY: Novice screw-up Sam, I didn't see your post for several days because I was away from the computer. I had done the same thing in laying up the longeron doublers in the front. I followed Dick Finn's choice 3 just epoxying a block onto the front of the doubler. It is attached on 3 sides and gets glassed over on 2 other sides. I am satisfied with the fix since all the pressure on this part would be applied towards the longeron on top of the doubler anyway. Bill Kastenholz Cozy MKIV #536 chapter 9 wkasty@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 09:04:49 -0500 From: tpierce@ghg.net (Terence J. Pierce) Subject: COZY: Chapter 5, fuselage sides Hello everyone, I am on chapter 5 page 3 in the plans adding the 3/4 inch foam to the fuselage sides. It looks like some measurements are missing from the plans. Here are some questions I have. 1) How far back does the electrical channel go, measuring from the back of the fuselage sides? 2) I don't understand what I am seeing in the drawing of H-H (chapter 5 page 3). What is this showing and what are the dimensions? 3) On the back of the fuselage sides what are the measurements of the slope above and below the electrical channel? I would assume it was the same slope as C-C. Thanks, Terry Pierce Cozy Mark IV #600 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:00:20 -0400 (EDT) From: gperry@usit.com Subject: COZY: Chapter 5, fuselage sides Terry, Let me jump in here and see if I can help. I remember puzzling this out myself. To start with, the electrical channel (as viewed from the edge of the fuselage sides lying in the forms) when finished should look something like this: ________________________________ |_______________/ ____________ firewall end ___________________/____________| Bear in mind that this is after the steps on page 5. So, to start with, mark the 3/4" foam with two horizontal lines 14.5" and 15.75" parallel to the fuselage top. Now mark two vertical lines between these two at 6" and 8" from the firewall. At the 6" line, you start your bevel downward so that you hit the 3/8" foam at about the 8" line. This gives you section H-H. I don't believe there's anything magical about the degree of the slope. You just want to make sure that it's nice and gradual as you will be pushing electical lines through this tunnel some day! The 6" and 8" measurements are also arbitrary. You want to make sure that the slope occurs between LWX (page 4) and the firewall with plenty of room for the piece you will build in Step 6 on page 5. I used the 6" and 8" measurements and they seemed to work fine. Others may want to jump in here with other ideas or measurements. These worked for me but I'm sure there's more than one way to skin this cat! Gregg Perry From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chapter 5, fuselage sides (fwd) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 9:26:07 EDT Terry Pierce asked: >I am on chapter 5 page 3 in the plans adding the 3/4 inch foam to the >fuselage sides. It looks like some measurements are missing from the >plans. Here are some questions I have. I believe that Greg Perry's explanation is a good one (it's been two years since I did the fuselage sides and my recollection is a bit hazy) but I do know that there was a good bit of discussion about this in the archives. I'd check the 1995 and 1996 archives for chapter 5 for further clues. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: michael amick Subject: COZY: Chpt5 sides Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 11:11:05 PDT Dear Group, I realize that most all Email members are past this point, but if several of you could check your builders log on this subject, I and the many others who follow could benifit. I am laying out my fusalage sides and carving the foam for the built up edges. I am having trouble with the angles and diminsions given in the plans. At the bottom rear area 18" is given as the number from the firewall forward to where the foam buildup (the piece where the electrical channel goes under the spruce reinforcements) intersects the bottom edge buildup. If this number is used then the angles from piece LWX are not even close (I've cut the piece twice - I know it's right on). However the ange on LWY does match when using 18" although it is a 1/2" or so short. Laying out the same foam with a diminsion of 16" allows LWX to fit perfectly, but then the angle for LWY is way off. Were these items covered under any plans revision or corrections I may have missed or did everyone else have difficulty with these pieces? I did reread the archives for this subject but only found notes on the electrical channel and firewall mismatch. I checked this on my layout and found that problem before it came to bea big one. Thanks in advance for the help michael.amick@nashville.com From: michael amick Subject: COZY: RE: Chptr 5 Sides- I Got It! Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 15:16:58 PDT Dear Group, Sorry for the double posting earlier, I've got some problem w/ my "Spooler" (whatever the heck that is!) according to MSExporer. Many thanks to all who responded to my question of odd fitting angles. Each answer helped little by little until I had a firm grasp of the obvious. Nobody came close to calling me an idiot but I sure feel like one. I had LWX upside down. The plans are correct. Sigh, I am getting too tired to do this layup today! I think I need to learn up from down before I fly this bird! Thanks again for all those who responded michael.amick@nashville.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Atkinson Fuel Sight Gauges Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 12:49:34 EDT People; After sitting on the shelf for about 1 1/2 years, I have just installed the "Vance Atkinson Fuel Sight Gauges" that are advertised for sale in the COZY newsletter. I recommend these highly - It was much easier to discern the fuel level in every plane I've seen that had these in comparison with the plans gauges. Installation is easy, the instructions are well written, and in total took me no more than 2 hours over 2 days of work (cure time, and all). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:30:30 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Atkinson Fuel Sight Gauges -Reply Hi, On fuel gauges....mmmm, I must be getting old, early on I just could not come to terms with looking behind me for a fuel check, so I installed electronic senders...weight 130grams for both...now I'm making up an electronic bar graph LED display for the panel. "Boys and their toys." Now I'll have 99% of my checks up front of me...:-) I prefer twisting my neck for ....................?( never mind ) Naturally the other fear I had was a leak into the fuselage. Since then I saw a mirror "repair" for viewing the left tank, anyway mine are in now excluding the gauges.! Once they are finished I'll show a pic of them on the panel. Rego. CZ4#139 RSA Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:13:12 -0600 From: Darren DeLoach Subject: COZY: Chap 5 top longeron layup I'm nearly done with Chap 5 (finally!), one more weekend to go, BUT I need to do a repair on an earlier layup. The 4 UNI layers which go over the wood top longerons has a large air pocket where the glass separated from the wood; the pocket is about 2.5" long, 0.3" wide running lengthwise in the direction of the UNI fiber, on the side of the longeron which will face down when the sides are sitting in the normal position (towards and a bit behind the control stick "dimple"). It sticks out (separated from wood) about 0.15". Should I: 1. drill two holes and fill with epoxy. 2. sand it down to bare wood, do a 4 dayer repair, or 3. do nothing, it won't be very visible and it won't have a structural implication. -- Darren DeLoach http://www.deloach.com Chap. 5 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chap 5 top longeron layup (fwd) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:41:00 EST Darren DeLoach wrote: >The 4 UNI layers which go over the wood top longerons has a large air >pocket where the glass separated from the wood; the pocket is about 2.5" >long, 0.3" wide ..... > It sticks out (separated from wood) about 0.15". >1. drill two holes and fill with epoxy. That would be a lot of epoxy... >2. sand it down to bare wood, do a 4 layer repair, or This gets my vote. Taper the 4 layers and you'll never notice it. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:41:02 -0600 Subject: COZY: Chap 5 top longeron layup Darren DeLoach wrote: >snip >Should I: > >1. drill two holes and fill with epoxy. > >2. sand it down to bare wood, do a 4 dayer repair, or > >3. do nothing, it won't be very visible and it won't have a structural >implication. It is in an area that won't be seen as far as I can tell from your description, but it's way too big a bubble to simply fill with epoxy. Good time to review the repair part of Chapter 3. Also good time to learn how such repairs look etc. My pick is #2. Larry Schuler lschuler@cellular.uscc.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:23:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 top longeron layup (fwd) Depending the location, if where the canopy seals against, should be straightedge smooth. Thats not a difficult repair, I would prefer repair. From: "norm & monda" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 top longeron layup Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:57:55 -0500 hi guy, i pick option 2 sand down and do layer layup repair, after all 1 bad layup is 1 place for a future problem to start at. norm & monda cozy IV #202 From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:34:00 -0600 Subject: COZY: Chap. 5 LWS BID Tape Darren DeLoach wrote: >snip >Am I supposed to leave the tape crossing over the channel, or should I cut out >the tape there? >snip Darren, Leave the bridge over the top of the channel in place. You only need access to the front of the channel eventually. The 'bridge' created by the stringer tapes is needed for structural load distribution I believe. Read ahead THROUGH chapter 9. You will be laying several more plies over the channels. Once all that is done, you can cut out just the front opening, leaving the bridge, as you call it, adjacent to the stringer. I used a piece of urethane foam cut to shape and covered with box tape as a plug to keep the 'bridge' nice and flat. Then after the additional layups were done, and the front of the channel cut out, I just dug the foam plugs out. Hope this helps. Larry Schuler plans #500 working on canard. lschuler@cellular.uscc.com