Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:39:31 -0800 From: Wayne Lanza <"wlanza@iu.net@wlanza"@iu.net> Subject: Re: COZY: Front Bench seat Terence J. Pierce wrote: > > I want to build my Cozy with a bench seat in front. Meaning I don't > want the heat duct between the pilot and co-pilot. Having big hips, I > would like to be able to share some of the co-pilots hip room. I am > planning on using the electric speed brake so I don't need Johnson bar > in the middle. But how should I pipe in the heat. Has anyone else done > this? > I know Jeff Russell does this on his Aerocanard, but he has a nose > mounted oil cooler. I'm not so sure I want to do that. > > Is there anything else that runs through that center duct? > > Thanks, > > Terry Pierce > Cozy Mark IV #600 Hi Guys (& Gals), In reference to the heat questions... The nose mounted oil cooler has been used with great success in the Velocity for years. Jeff used it in his AeroCanard, I've installed same in my MK3. BUT if you still don't like that idea, why not run small ducts along the left & right lower edges of the floor from the "Hell Hole" forward to the pilot foot area. You could tap heat as needed for all four passengers with four small slide valves. 4wattitsworth... See Y'all in Lakeland, Wayne Lanza Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:24:22 -0600 From: tpierce@ghg.net (Terence J. Pierce) Subject: COZY: Front Bench seat I want to build my Cozy with a bench seat in front. Meaning I don't want the heat duct between the pilot and co-pilot. Having big hips, I would like to be able to share some of the co-pilots hip room. I am planning on using the electric speed brake so I don't need Johnson bar in the middle. But how should I pipe in the heat. Has anyone else done this? I know Jeff Russell does this on his Aerocanard, but he has a nose mounted oil cooler. I'm not so sure I want to do that. Is there anything else that runs through that center duct? Thanks, Terry Pierce Cozy Mark IV #600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:33:17 -0500 From: Phillip.Johnson@lmco.com (Phillip Johnson) Subject: COZY: Front Bench seat Terence Pierce writes: > Having big hips, I would like to be able to share some of the > co-pilots hip room. I am a pretty big guy myself, 6' 3" 230 lbs, but with sufficient undercut for the pilots arm rest, a narrow (2") centre console there is no problem. The biggest problem is shoulder room. BTW I have a hydraulic speed brake so no Johnson bar either. Phillip Johnson Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:40:17 -0500 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: Re: COZY: Front Bench seat Terence J. Pierce wrote: > > I want to build my Cozy with a bench seat in front. without the johnson bar, you just about have one already once you account for the seat cushions. as far as i know the aerocanard still has a center keel (read: heatduct) for structural reasons, i.e., longitudinal stiffness and center seatbelt attach points. maybe marc z will comment since he seems to have thought alot about the load paths in this bird... -- bil by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-5 #17060) with SMTP id <01IH7B0GH8AM94ZBF1@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:33:59 EST Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 19:29:41 -0500 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: COZY: Re: Front Bench seat Organization: AEROCAD INC. william l kleb wrote: > as far as i know the aerocanard still has a center keel > (read: heatduct) for structural reasons, i.e., longitudinal > stiffness and center seatbelt attach points. This is true, I still have a center keel that goes from the front seat to the instrument panel. It is smaller because I am not using it a heat duct. I also moved the throttle and mixture from this duct to the center riser on the instrument panel. This now makes for a bench seat. The seatbelt attach points are still at the center of the bench. -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 16:45:51 -0500 From: INFINITY Aerospace Subject: COZY: Cabin Heat Hi Terry and All, >But how should I pipe in the heat. Has anyone else done this? I know Jeff Russell does this on his Aerocanard, but he has a nose mounted oil cooler. I'm not so sure I want to do that.< Composite Aircraft Accessories make a really nice electric cockpit heater that can also be used as a canopy defog - P.O. Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 (805) 964-5453. Infinity's Forever, JD From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Cabin Heat (fwd) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 18:01:15 EST Terry Pierce asks, in reference to a bench seat conversion: > >But how should I pipe in the heat. Has anyone else done this? I >know Jeff Russell does this on his Aerocanard, but he has a nose mounted >oil cooler. I'm not so sure I want to do that.< Well, bil kleb suggested that I put my $0.02 in, so I'll do just that, even given my history of needing (usually minor :-) ) corrections to my engineering statements (it's like that at H.P. too :-) ). Structurally, my belief is that the keel helps stiffen the floor of the passenger compartment, so it's nice to have something there, but I don't believe it's necessary for the structural integrity of the fuselage - between the instrument panel and the seatback, the floor is coupled to the sides pretty well. As was suggested, the throttle etc. cables could run along the floor in a small bump into the rear cockpit, and the heat ducts could be run in small conduits inside the armrest under the torque tube (don't know how much heat you'd actually get through a small conduit, however - might be marginal). Jim Newman wrote; > Composite Aircraft Accessories make a really nice electric cockpit >heater that can also be used as a canopy defog - P.O. Box 21645 Santa >Barbara, CA 93121 (805) 964-5453. If I remember correctly from their literature, this is a 600W device. Maybe I'm wrong, and it puts out as much heat as a big honking hair dryer (1500W). Either way, at 12 - 14 volts, you'll be sucking down anywhere from 43 to 125 Amps. Good luck running anything else off of your alternator, or keeping your battery alive for any length of time. I also remember reading reviews in the CSA regarding electric heater of this size, and people stating that they couldn't even tell that they were on, even in a L.E. Maybe this would be useful for defrosting your canopy for short periods of time, but there's no way that an electric heater can come close to the heat output from the oil cooler or the exhaust muff. Usable waste heat from the engine can run into the tens if not hundreds of kilowatts (remember, one HP = 746 watts), or the equivalent of many of these "hair dryers". Also remember that people living in cold areas (me, for instance) are always complaining about the heat output in COZY's and L.E.'s, and kluging up electric socks :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com