Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 08:08:52 -0500 From: william l kleb Subject: fresh air system as per marc nadine's post here and pat bradley's july 1995 central states newsletter article, i am building a fresh air system. pat mentions using 3/4" ID, plastic, agricultural quick-couplers in his article; but, living in this non-farmland area, i am finding nothing but blank stares and quiet phone receivers. the quick couplers seem like they would make the system much more friendly (read: i'd use it more often than not). does anyone know a source for these animals? i have found compressed air and hydraulic quick-couplers but they are fairly expensive (~$40) and require large pressure to open. --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 73 bellanca 7gcbc citabria 99 kleb cozy iv Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:24:15 -0500 From: william l kleb Subject: Re: fresh air system regarding 3/4" ID agricultural quick-couplers: ps: i have also looked at garden hose quick-couplers. they appear to have way too small of diameter; besides if a better thing exists, why not use it? bil Date: 21 Jun 96 20:19:33 EDT From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Temperature Control Hi to All, >Also, purchase a kerosene space heater. Costs about $150.00 and it'll raise the temp of my 2 car garage 20 degrees in about an hour. The brand I have is a Corona.< Now, I know a lot of people do it, but we (and other composite building shops) do not recommend using any type of kerosene heater for building a composite airplane for they don't burn pure and leave an oily film / soot on everything, particularly when they get low on fuel oil. You will get a 'fish eye' appearance in the resin or paint. The part may not be as strong as it should be since your laying up on an oily film. Besides this, they are not very healthy to be breathing there fumes, and we are all working around flameable resins and liquids. Ask Velocity what happened to their first Velocity RG (it burned up from a kerosene heater under / close to the right strake / wing after fueling it indoors in the winter before first flight). Kerosene heaters may be fine for large open areas like barns. Bottom line, electricity, natural gas or propane should only be used to heat building / painting areas for composite airplanes. We bought a used 30,000 BTU Green House heater that uses natural gas ($70 out of the Penny Saver) for working in the garage at home. Hung it from the ceiling, spliced it into the gas hot water heater lines in the garage and hooked up a $30 timer / temperature controller from Home Depot. Spliced the exhaust into the hot water exhaust stack / vent even though they burn pure, and hung a CO detector in the middle of the room just in case there ever is a problem. The timer was set to come on about 30 minutes before I was going to work in the garage, or at least 4 hours before a major layup to warm all parts and the glass itself. Warmed glass wets out much easier than cold. Putting warmed resin from the epoxy pump onto a 60 degree part just thinkens up again, doesn't flow or wet out well, creates a heavier part, etc. I've heard of some people warming their pre-cut glass in the oven which also helps get out moisture. In one of our hangars, I built a 19' X 22' insulated room and heat it with a 30,000 propane heater that burns 100% pure (the airport unfortunately doesn't have natural gas to the hangars). A 5 gallon bottle of propane lasts about 14 hours. Even though it burns pure, I have a CO detector hanging in the middle of the room. HTH. Infinity's Forever, JD INFINITY Aerospace P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Temperature Control (fwd) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 9:36:34 EDT Jim Newman writes: >Now, I know a lot of people do it, but we (and other composite building >shops) do not recommend using any type of kerosene heater for building a >composite airplane for they don't burn pure and leave an oily film / soot on >everything.......... I seem to remember having this discussion about kerosene heaters last year (should be buried in the 1995 archives, somewhere). The upshot was that while gas heaters are certainly cleaner, I (and others) have used kerosene heaters (both standard and catalytic) without any soot or oil film problems at all. I even painted my Q2 in a paint booth heated with a kerosene heater and had absolutely no problems. If I didn't already have a heater, I'd probably buy a gas one just so I didn't have to worry about it in the least, but I'm not concerned about using my kerosene heater during any phase of the building or painting process (although, as Jim states, you don't want to get too close to anything with it). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:57:04 -0400 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Temperature Control (fwd) In a message dated 96-06-24 09:37:54 EDT, you write: << If I didn't already have a heater, I'd probably buy a gas one just so I didn't have to worry about it in the least, but I'm not concerned about using my kerosene heater during any phase of the building or painting process (although, as Jim states, you don't want to get too close to anything with it).>> As an aside, I had just lit my kerosene heater one day, and set my not so inexpensive portable electric drill on the top of the protective grill *for just a second*. After all, I'd just lit the thing and the grill wasn't even warm. Well, I forgot about it, and went to get a cup of coffee. On my return 10 minutes later I was greeted with the smell of something burning, and found only the metal innards of the drill sitting on top of the heater grill. Everything else made of plastic was slowly dripping through the grill and on a slow boil on top of the heater. Yep, these heaters do tend to get a bit hot! Most of my airplane parts were exposed to years of kerosene heater fumes, and I did much of my finish work *sanding and applying micro* with the heater on. Haven't had a problem with my finish yet, which is done thru primer. But maybe this is a potential problem that takes time to show up. Hope not! Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:58:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Crutfield Subject: Re: COZY: Temperature Control (fwd) A little late on this one, but felt the need to respond> I too use Kerosene heat. I use one an old Kerosun catalytic heater. I always light it outside and wait until it is burning clean before bringing it into the shop. Using this method the shop remains odor free and I am sure that it is free of any oily residue. I reverse the procedure when I shut it off, taking it back outside. Working in the garage, I have found that it takes a long time for the Kerosene heater to get the shop up to temperature. To get around this problem, I use a forced air propane heater to bring the shop quickly up to temperature (can bring it up about 30 degrees in 30 minutes) while waiting on the Kerosene heater to begin burning cleanly. Of course you still need to wait until all of your materials are up to temperature before beginning work. If I were starting from scratch, I think that I would install electric baseboard heating. This is not too expensive up front, cheaper to operate, safer, no worry of fumes, etc. Randy Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:08:45 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: COZY: Electric heat If I were starting from scratch, I think that I would install electric baseboard heating. This is not too expensive up front, cheaper to operate, safer, no worry of fumes, etc. Randy What part of the country do you live in Randy? Out here in California almost anything is cheaper than electricity for heating purposes! I can heat my very ventilated garage in the winter for about a week on 5 gallons of propane which costs about $5.00. I can only shudder to think what it would cost to heat it using electricity. Of course a cold winter evening here would be 40 degrees! With a smile, Michael 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove CA 94951 707.664.1171 Cozy#413 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13. Currently on 16 and 24. Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:30:46 -0400 From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Hot Wire Voltage Controller In a message dated 96-07-01 01:00:10 EDT, you write: > Note - if you have OLD type wiring >in your house that doesn't have a ground wire a ground fault outlet may not >properly protect you, Ahh, this is where GFCI's shine, they do not require a ground"ing" conductor to be effective. They react to a difference in current between the "hot" conductor and the ground"ed" (neutral) conductor. By looking for a differential they "sense" current going to ground, and interupt the circuit. In homes without a ground wire, this is the only way, short of completely rewiring, that you can legally use three pronged, grounded recepticles. You can feed them off the "load" side of the GFCI and they will be protected. The reason you have a ground wire in your circuit is to trip the breaker or blow the fuse in case of a "ground fault", or short circuit. The Ground Fault Circuit Interupter does the same. I hope this helps any of you in houses that pre-date grounding. Also the most recent National Electric Code requires ALL convience recepticles in garages and basements to be GFCI protected, as well as outdoor recepticles that are accesible to grade. Sincerely, Steve Miles Cozy MkIV 0272 starting soon??? From: "Volk, Ray" Subject: COZY: Cozy: Epoxy Toxicity Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:25:00 -0400 Mark Morris writes: >1. Are the users of MDA containing epoxies greatly concerned about the >MDA risk? Is ply 9 reasonably acceptable or is everyone using multiple >layers of gloves and respirators? Marc Zeitlin writes: >>"Use gloves and respirators - I can't emphasize this enough." Marc is absolutely right here in his recommendations for protection, sounds like the voice of experience to me. I started my project in April of 1995 and have gone from no allergic problems to "major" problems which took me months to sort out the cause and effects. It is a very long story which I won't go into here except to leave my conclusions for protection that I use. For hand protection I use; 1. Cotton liners,(to keep hands from sweating), covered by 2. "Butyl" gloves(the only gloves I've found that will stop epoxy), covered by 3. Disposable Latex gloves (to protect the expensive Butyl gloves), the pair I'm using now are 8 months old and still working fine. My experience is that ply 9, latex gloves, nitrile gloves, and vinyl gloves by themselves, and even in combinations did not give adequate protection. For lung protection I use; A forced air system using a full hood and driven by a garage vac running at about 1/2 speed through a 30 foot swimming pool cleaning hose. The hood not only lets you breath fresh air but because there is so much surplus air, it keeps you cool in a hot garage (Arizona). The whole thing cost me about $120.00 and was well worth it. I tried a face mask but soon gave up on it because it made my face sweat and caused itching under the mask and also did not seem to provide complete protection. After working in the garage for a day with the respirator I could feel a slight tightness in my chest even though it was much better than without a respirator. This may have been because I had the wrong or old cannisters, I did not experiment in this area very much because at this point I was paranoid and wanted instant results. Hope this helps. Ray Volk, Cozy #426 Complete chapters 4-7, 10,11,14,19 and now on 20. e-mail Work rvolk@FL51mail.space.honeywell.com Home dj76550@goodnet.com Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:47:54 -0700 From: Paul Comte Subject: COZY: Epoxy Allergies, air exchange systems Has anyone installed an air exchange unit in their shop? While they do seem pricey, $700 or more, I've been told these are being installed in many new homes due to the new extreemly air tight building techniques. Input from someone who has would be most welcome. Also has anyone measured the humidity of their shop? What is dry enough? I'm hoping to maintain a constant 72 degrees in the shop. pcomte@tcccom.net Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:22:59 -0400 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: Re: COZY: shop humidity/temperature Paul Comte wrote: > > Also has anyone measured the humidity of their shop? What is dry enough? i have a cheap (?!$25) temperature/humidity gauge in my garage. i have found that doing layups with the humidity less than 70% is desirable. (i am using the equivalent of safe-t-poxy, living less than five miles from the coast of the chesapeake bay/atlantic ocean.) > I'm hoping to maintain a constant 72 degrees in the shop. i have found (and been told) that safe-t-poxy is easier to work with (i.e., less viscous--easier to wet the glass fibers) if the temperature is at least 80 degrees F. even with the shop and all parts at 80 degrees, i find that i must employ my 1970's hair-drier on the bigger layups. i keep the resin, hardener, paper cups, mixing sticks, flox, micro ballons, extra resin, etc., between 90 and 95 degrees with the ubiquitous epoxy closet (page 80 of the april 1992 sport aviation). note, however, s.elliott has reported that the hardener seems to age quicker (turns dark) when stored at these higher temperatures. --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 72 bellanca 7gcbc 9! cz4 -> aerocanard Date: 15 Aug 1996 10:51:29 -0700 From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: COZY: Battery Power Personal Resp Builders, I recently purchased a battery powered respirator that I think is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The unit is called the AIRMATE 3 from RACAL HEALTH & SAFETY. It is basically three pieces; Helmet assembly (1.8lbs) Airfilter Unit with rechargeable battery for 8 hours of operation ( 2.2lbs) Breathing hose that connects the two together (.2 lbs) Numerous NIOSH/MSHA Approvals. The helmet is a yellow hard-hat with a polycarbonte face shield that is hinged and can be raised/lowered. The breathing hose connects to the rear of the helmet and drops down the center of your back to your waist were the filter unit is worn. The air is sucked in near your waist and exits down in front of your forehead (cools you as well). The lexan face shield has a tyvek chin/cheek seal that maintains a positive pressure around your face. Your ears are not covered. I have had mine for about two months and can say sanding fiberglass is almost fun....... well maybe somewhat tolerable. In any case I highly recommend the unit. The only negative aspect is the immediate discomfort when one hears a barking spider. You can run but you can't hide. The location of the filter unit seems to be precisely positioned for optimal affect. Source- AIRWARE AMERICA PO Box 975 Hwy 54 South Elbow Lake MN 56531 800-328-1792 Price <>$375 I've seen them in Fine Woodworking Magazine as well. judd_stewart@cpqm.saic.com 619.552.5581 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:42:02 -0400 From: glenw@interramp.com (Glen E WHITTAKER) Subject: COZY: Basement Workshops I am planning to build a Cozy Mk IV in the basement of my home. What can I do to prevent the epoxy fumes and dust from migrating upstairs to the living area? Glen Whittaker Cozy Mk IV Serial Number: 0563 --------------------------------------- Glen Whittaker glenw@interramp.com --------------------------------------- From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Basement Workshops (fwd) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 20:32:53 EDT Glen Whittaker asks: >I am planning to build a Cozy Mk IV in the basement of my home. What can I >do to prevent the epoxy fumes and dust from migrating upstairs to the >living area? I'm building in my basement as well. I have stapled 4 mil plastic sheeting everywhere around my work area, so that all dust is contained. It works pretty well if I vacuum after each sanding session. I have the plastic unstapled in one small corner so that I can get myself and stuff in and out. As far as fumes go, the 2427 is pretty vapor-free, but I keep the basement-upstairs door closed, and the basement-outside door open (in the summer). I've got a window fan blowing out that helps clear the air from the basement as well. Hope this helps. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:53:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Roy Grossinger Subject: Re: COZY: Basement Workshops > I am planning to build a Cozy Mk IV in the basement of my home. What can I > do to prevent the epoxy fumes and dust from migrating upstairs to the > living area? > I am doing the same, I do not have any problems with the 2427 system. I always were at least a charcoal respirator, or better and have never noticed any fumes on ther ground level of my Tri-level home. Sometimes when I get real hot I turn on the swamp cooler, without the water pump (no humidity increase) to cool the shop after a lay up. It exhausts through my bedroom upstairs and I have never noticed the fumes there either. ROY id <01IAJX5W7A8E8XOMJ2@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: COZY: Forced Air System Having one allergic reaction, and breathing a lot of dust has led to a search for a cheap supplied air system. I think I have found it. I found a source for some air hoods. It is Airware America (1-800-328-1792). They have some air hoods item #520-03-07 @$57.00 for 3 ea. This includes the supply hose (3'). They are made of lightweight tyvek. It covers the top of the head, and has a clear face shield, and comes under the chin. The hose exits the back. They are made to be disposable, although I think they will last a fairly long time for our application. I bought an extra hose for $13. Now I have system for a helper! I hooked the hood up to a old rusty vacuum I use to clean my car (I found in the trash) and a 50' water hose and duct tape. Used an old water hose "Y" valve to control air flow to both masks. Works GREAT. I just set the vac outside the shop and turn it on. I even tried it with my air compressor. Works GREAT. I didnt like the noise too much, although it might be good in the summer (the air is nice and cool). Total cost for two systems with an extra hood.... $75.00. Might not look snarky, but it works GREAT! Nick Ugolini unick@mail.charleston.net Varieze N89RS Cozy Mark IV #0264 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:54:46 -0700 From: "Steven D. Sharp" Subject: Re: COZY: Forced Air System Nick Ugolini wrote: > > Having one allergic reaction, and breathing a lot of dust has led to a > search for a cheap supplied air system. I think I have found it. > > I found a source for some air hoods. It is Airware America > (1-800-328-1792). They have some air hoods item #520-03-07 @$57.00 for 3 > ea. This includes the supply hose (3'). They are made of lightweight > tyvek. It covers the top of the head, and has a clear face shield, and > comes under the chin. The hose exits the back. They are made to be > disposable, although I think they will last a fairly long time for our > application. I bought an extra hose for $13. Now I have system for a helper! > > I hooked the hood up to a old rusty vacuum I use to clean my car (I found in > the trash) and a 50' water hose and duct tape. Used an old water hose "Y" > valve to control air flow to both masks. Works GREAT. I just set the vac > outside the shop and turn it on. I even tried it with my air compressor. > Works GREAT. I didnt like the noise too much, although it might be good in > the summer (the air is nice and cool). > > Total cost for two systems with an extra hood.... $75.00. Might not look > snarky, but it works GREAT! > > Nick Ugolini > unick@mail.charleston.net > > Varieze N89RS > Cozy Mark IV #0264 Please be careful using compressed air. Manufacturers warn against the use of the air from the compressor without a filter between the compressor and breathing device. There are many suspended nasties in teh compress air (oilmist, old water, mold, mildew,...). Just a word of caution - don't want anybody to get sick - or worse!! Steve Sharp cozyiii@earthlink.net by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #10979) id <01IAMOGJC9DU0003Q3@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:21:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:22:49 -0700 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Forced Air System >Please be careful using compressed air. Manufacturers warn against the >use of the air from the compressor without a filter between the >compressor and breathing device. There are many suspended nasties in teh >compress air (oilmist, old water, mold, mildew,...). Just a word of >caution - don't want anybody to get sick - or worse!! >Steve Sharp Steve, You beat me to it! Thanks to Nick for the info on the Tivek hoods. I have seen exactly the same scheme proposed, using a plain brown grocery paper bag, with the "shoulders" cut out like a diver's helmet, and a "faceplate" of taped-on saran wrap. The whole mess gets taped to your coverall for painting, etc. The Tyvek hood sounds like a major improvement. *DEFINITELY* do not use a shop air compressor, however! The oil mist, alone, can be deadly. Just talk with the guys down at the local SCUBA shop, and get them to show you the elaborate filter system they use to fill tanks with breathing air. Unless you own some oil wells, you can't afford it! Shop vacs are incredibly cheap. Just buy a new one and dedicate it to this use. -Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers hrogers@slac.stanford.edu