Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:26:52 -0700 From: reavesga@iamerica.net (George Reaves) Subject: Getting Started Few questions here. I have finally got the shop cleared and am going to order the plans for the Cozy after researching a bunch of differrent aircraft. What I would like to know is there a company that sales the materials on a per stage basis out there. Or do I bulk order them from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. Second, what is the news on Aero Canard and how do I contact them by Mail or on the internet. Finally, is there anyone out there that has the main gear retract info that is available. Is it shown on the plans or a suplemement or somebodys modification that is available. And last but not least, cutting all those foam cores scares the heck out of me. Are they available from some one pre-cut or is it just a fun experience I am looking forward to ? Thanks for the help George Reaves reavesga@iamerica.net From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Getting Started (fwd) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 23:19:48 EST George Reaves asks: >............ is there a company that sales the materials on a per stage >basis out there. Or do I bulk order them from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. Wicks sells kits by the chapter - that's how I'm buying everything. It really helps spread out the expense. Alexanders did too - we'll see if that keeps up as Aircraft Spruce East. >Second, what is the news on Aero Canard and how do I contact them by Mail or >on the internet. See Bill Walsh's reply to Larry Schuler for the AC phone #. All the supplier addresses and phone #'s (both approved and un-approved) are available from the Newsletter page on the WWW COZY Home Page. >......... Finally, is there anyone out there that has the main gear >retract info that is available. Is it shown on the plans or a suplemement or >somebodys modification that is available. Call James D. Newman at Infinity Aerospace (619) 448-5103 or 72124.347@compuserve.com . He sells the retracts. Nat does not like him, or the idea of putting retracts on a COZY, although one COZY III with the Infinity retracts is already flying, and Phillip Johnson is putting them on his MKIV (in process). They looked pretty good at Oshkosh. >.......... And last but not least, cutting >all those foam cores scares the heck out of me. Are they available from some >one pre-cut or is it just a fun experience I am looking forward to ? Both Featherlite and AeroCad sell pre-cut cores. As an editorial comment, it surprises me how many people are afraid of hot-wiring. It's really not very difficult, and you can build a hot wire saw for ~$20 and save a TON of money. I hot wire with my wife, and after we did a few straight cuts for practice, we get VERY nice looking cores. If you have any fine motor skills at all, you'll do just fine. Also, it's fast, and fun - you get something that looks like a wing in a couple of hours. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: "Craig R. Bowers" Subject: Prices in KITPLANES Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:41:34 -0800 Hi all: In the post from Dave Chapman, he wrote: ...Also the latest Kitplanes magazine directory contained some stats that were very misleading. (I think these were the numbers he gave me) For example, the Cozy was listed as being $13,000 for the kit (materials) and the AeroCanard kit was listed at $12000 for the kit. ... I went and grabbed the Dec.'95 KITPLANES, it says: AeroCad AeroCannard $14,433 AeroCad Cozy Mk IV $12,423 Co-Z Dev. Corp. $13,000 That's what the book says. You make the call! :-) Craig R. Bowers "There is an art, or rather, a knack, to flying. The knack lies in learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy From: Michael Antares Subject: Why I buy from Wicks Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:11:13 -0800 A short story (happened yesterday)... I came up 4 feet short on the spar cap tape while doing the main spar = caps. I had finished the top cap and 16 of the 17 layers of the bottom. = So I called Janet at Wicks to order 10 more yards of tape (just to have some on hand). She called back later and = left a message saying they were out of the tape. The next morning = (yesterday) I called her back and said I really only needed 4 feet, = maybe they would have just a little. She went out and checked and found = three short pieces, one apparently about 5 feet long. She then said = that she would ship them out immediately Priority Mail at no charge. = This is one example of the service I have consistently gotten from = Wicks. Yes, the shipping charges sometimes are more than Spruce would = be but Wicks has locked me in as a permanent customer because of their = superior service if nothing else. Michael Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 14:01:19 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: Why I buy from Wicks ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Mike: I've had many good experiences with Wicks. I second your feelings. I've got nothing but good things to say about the service that Wicks provides. I've been dealing with them for over seven years and think they are top notch. Bob Misterka Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 15:23:34 -0600 From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Featherlite Main strut Just got off the phone with FL regarding shipping time for the main strut. They won't make them until they have 6 orders (min.). So far they have 2 plus mine will make three. If you want them quicker then 30-45 days, place your order now and we can get them rolling on production. Cost is $560 plus shipping. Let me know if you have sent them an order and I'll keep track. Thanks. Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Phoenix, AZ | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ Current Status: Ch 8 o o Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:07:52 CST (-0600) From: JerryKennel Subject: Source for spinner Does anyone have a good source for a spinner and mounting plate? I have a 3 blade performance prop for a 0-360. Jerry Kennel Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:37:00 EST From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Subject: Re: Source for spinner Jerry Kennel asked about a spinner and mounting plate for a 3 bladed Performance prop. I'll probably be using the same prop on my MK3. The spinner assembly used on the Velocity is less a spinner and more a "Skull Cap" that fits nicely about the prop hub. The reason they went with this type of spinner is due to the large diameter of the 3 blade prop hub. It would take one LARGE spinner to cover it. This small spinner fits on the back side of the prop hub via a small mounting plate, i.e. the front of the prop hub is mated to the engine flange. There is also a nice optional shroud that covers the prop extension (8" length??) from the flange forward to the flywheel. I'm not sure what they ask for the above parts, but I can ask. They are really nice people, and they make nice stuff. Contact me if you need more info, I'm by Velocity almost weekly. Wayne Lanza Cozy MK3 N452WL (407) 664-8953 / 664-9239 aka Composite Design Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:26:10 -0800 From: aerocad@ix.netcom.com (Jeff S. Russell) Subject: Fwd: Re: Source for spinner ---- Begin Forwarded Message Return-Path: Received: from hp.com by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id PAA08417; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:45:21 -0800 Received: from hpwarhw.an.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA162668308; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:45:11 -0800 Received: from relay.hp.com by hpwarhw.an.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA04434; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:37:47 -0500 Received: from wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com by relay.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA096017977; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:39:37 -0800 Received: by wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18539; Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:37:00 EST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:37:00 EST From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Message-Id: <9602262337.AA18539@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com> To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com, jkenne19@email3.starnetinc.com Subject: Re: Source for spinner Cc: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com Jerry Kennel asked about a spinner and mounting plate for a 3 bladed Performance prop. I'll probably be using the same prop on my MK3. The spinner assembly used on the Velocity is less a spinner and more a "Skull Cap" that fits nicely about the prop hub. The reason they went with this type of spinner is due to the large diameter of the 3 blade prop hub. It would take one LARGE spinner to cover it. This small spinner fits on the back side of the prop hub via a small mounting plate, i.e. the front of the prop hub is mated to the engine flange. There is also a nice optional shroud that covers the prop extension (8" length??) from the flange forward to the flywheel. I'm not sure what they ask for the above parts, but I can ask. They are really nice people, and they make nice stuff. Contact me if you need more info, I'm by Velocity almost weekly. Wayne Lanza Cozy MK3 N452WL (407) 664-8953 / 664-9239 aka Composite Design Aerocad also sells a Scull Cap to fit the 7" crush plate.... 3 blade prop. The shroud for the prop extension ONLY FITS the 8" length. This won't work for the MKIV's using the standard cowling. price for the Scull Cap from AeroCad: $45.00 each Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:31:22 -0500 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: aircraft wire source Here again, Thought I would send some information to you on a aircraft wire source I found through Wayne Lanza. company name is skycraft electronics phone is 407-628-5634 located in FL. They deal with surplus and there prices are very good. Wicks cant even compare with them. They have no catalog though and there inventory is constantly changing so call and check every now and then to check on what you might need. Paul Burkhardt Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:19:46 -0500 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: Re: Source for spinner Jerry, Ibought mine from Klaus Savier (also my electronic ignition). He sells a cone (tear drop)type spinner with the matching backplate . I dont remember what I paid for it but it was around 150 + I also bought a shroud (?) that kinda covers the prop extention.. The cone itself is made of (kevlar ?) fiberglass, you must notch out the area where the prop hubs come through. It looks very nice though and is flexable enough to wrap around the hubs to get a very close fit. If you want the number ill drag it out for you. Paul Burkhardt Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:27:56 -0800 From: aerocad@ix.netcom.com (Jeff S. Russell) Subject: Featherlite Main strut In reply to what Tim Sullivan said. >FL will not make Main Gear struts unless they have 6 orders for them? This is so very true. We will add to our list of parts: S-2 Fiberglass Main Gear ("with out" UNI raps) for $575.00 The gear will be trimmed to lenght, but thats all......not very pretty We have always sold our Main Strut (with UNI raps) takes us more time & material, thats why for the extra pricing $650.00 We normaly have them in stock: or work them in ( about 3 days ) Hope this helps...........Jeff Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:18:02 -0500 From: RonKidd@aol.com Subject: Re: Chap 16 Control Systems & Other Metal Parts I used Weldtech for the control bearings,bioth in the wing roots and sticks, they are first class. Also, Weldtech built my mount, which was of far better quality than the BNrock's. I also used their rudder pedal kit as wel. I can heartilly recommend Weldtech! Ron Kidd Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:53:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Re: RAE Epoxy (fwd) I got home last night and found four gallons of the resin parked at my front door. Unfortunetly there was no hardener. I had ordered four RAE epoxy "kits" from Wicks and didn't think to specify no short shipments as I considered them as being sold as a single unit. This seems typical of Wick's who tries to short ship orders when ever possible and then bill extra for the second/third shipment. They seem to regard their shipping department as a profit center. Nat Puffer indicated that he was assurred that when Hexcel sold the business that at least one supplier (Wicks) would be supplied with the product. It seems that most of the people are unhappy with ASS and I am a voice crying out in the widerness with my Wicks complaints. My experience with ASS has been generally good. They don't charge for short shipments, for me there is no sales tax (Wicks charges my tax) and their prices are almost universally lower. Shipping does take a bit longer from the coast though. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RAE Epoxy (fwd) Author: walsh@seminole.iag.net at INTERNET Date: 3/4/96 10:21 PM Dick, Do you have any further details on the RAE situation?? Is Wicks going to definately have it?? Date: 05 Mar 96 11:58:35 EST From: Chuck Wolcott <75501.356@compuserve.com> Subject: Phone # for Jeff Rose please Hi gang - Does anyone have a phone number to reach Jeff Rose of Electroair - Direct Ignition Systems??? I have his old brochure and lost his new address and phone number. Thanks in advance! Chuck Wolcott / MarkIV - 154CW Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 17:11:25 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: Epoxy? >Jeff, > >I buy my resin from Diversified Material Inc. in San Diego and I > just recently >(2 days ago) talked with them about Gordons product. They have > just received >there first shipment and are in the process of "pouring it off" >(re-packaging). I don't know there position on shipping product. > >There number is 619.464.4111 > >Contact- Ernie ??? salesman > >Judd Stewart >619.552.5581 work I just got pricing for this: 2410 resin replacement 55 gal. $2263.23 5 gal. $190.66 1 gal. $46.33 hardener replacement 2183,84,87 5 gal. $185.73 2.5 gal. $98.45 .5 gal. $20.31 this is in stock!!!!!!!!! thanks for the info. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 13:09:17 EST From: "Nick J Ugolini" Subject: re: Epoxy? Jeff Russell (AeroCad), I am struck with the constant search by builders for parts, resin and prebuilt items (me included). I know you mainly supply pre-built fiberglass items for our planes, BUT have you considered the business end of supplying everyday items (glass, micro, Al, screws) as well as hard to find parts and resin? With the right pricing and the support of the cozy community I am sure there is a small but profitable market out there. Your inventory would also be limited because it would be optimized toward Cozy builders (your required inventory is already laid our for you in our plans!). I am sure you could even sub out the metal / machine fabrication and still make a profit. Most of us (the builders) realize that assembling a plane is not cheap. I for one, am willing to pay the same or a slightly higher prices for parts IF the supplier was timely, provided some limited amount of knowledgeable customer support (you are already doing that on the web) and chose an inventory of selected parts (such as the best brakes, best metal components etc.) so I don't have to ask questions, or learn from the mistakes or misfortunes of others . You certainly have the building experience and have already researched the parts you feel are best matched to our planes. Thoughts? Nick U. ------------- Original Text >From JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell), on 3/5/96 11:59 AM: Has anyone got a price on the Resin/harder from Gorden that replaces the Epolite systems 2410 and 2184,2187 ? We will soon run out an need replacements. I would like to se Gal. and 5 Gal. pricing if any. Thanks AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:51:26 -0500 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: wire source cozy folks, Through Wayne Lanza I found a source for surplus wire. Its all new and some hard to find shielded stuff that wicks doesn't supply . Its skycraft parts and supply. 407-628-5634 Paul Burkhardt Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 11:05:08 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: re: Spare parts FORSALE >From Nick J Ugolini >I saw your turtleback at Sun-N-Fun and liked it. I am planning to > buy it from you. Let me try to get your understanding on what we sell. What you saw at Sun-n-Fun was our AeroCanard. The tub and top fuselage are larger in size. You can build your tub to our size using our Bulkhead patterns $50.00. The top that we mold can be split-up as follows 1.(top nose with canard cover $250.00) 2.(canopy frame,turtle back with top cowl $2000.00) or (turtle back with top cowl $650.00). There is no part line between the turtle back to canopy frame like the Cozy MKIV. So I don't like selling just the canopy frame. Our mold for the top is in one piece from F-0 to the spinner. >Q. What modification do I need to make as I build the tub to > accomidate your parts (I am planning to buy the turtle back and engine cowls) We have 9 builders with the MKIV tub per plans size using our top. We give side fairings with a AeroCanard top purchase to Cozy MKIV builders so the bottom cowling fits the firewall like ours. You do not get more room in the lower tub, But you gain lots of room in the top. >Q. Will this canopy fit your parts? The MKIV canopy was used on the AeroCanard for a male plug to insure proper fit with our molded part. We have ourselves installed 3 so far to date. All fit like a glove. Other builders have also told us the same. >Q. If for some reason I build my own turtle, will the canopy fit? Yes, It's the same canopy bubble. >Q. The "bubble" canopy, is it the front windshield and side > windows, or is it a full bubble (like the VariEZ? Just the front windshield. On the AeroCanard top canopy frame, what you cut out will be what you reinstall for a windshield. This gives the option of having a rap around windshield or a full bubble or any combination between the two. The Rear Windows (4) are extra. Hope this answers questions on a conversion from a Cozy to AeroCanard AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 12:47:01 EST From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Subject: Cozy & EZ parts I have been getting alot of requests for information regarding the parts that I manufacture for Cozys and EZees. Please note the following info and feel free to contact me with questions. I will be at Sun-N-Fun from 4/13 through 4/16 and can be contacted either on the flight line (Cozy Lane) or (if my batteries hold out) by cell phone (407) 537-6974. Worst case is to leave a message at (407) 664-8953, I'll be checking those messages daily. 1) Electric Speed Brake Kit * It is physically smaller and lighter than the manual system. * There are no linkages, springs or cables to bother with. * It is easier to install and maintain than the manual system. * There are two versions, one fits the Cozy MK3 & MK4 the other kit is designed for Long & Vari EZ's * Cost is competative with the manual system ($275.00 U.S.$) 2) Power Panel * Replaces or provides the bus bars, circuit breakers, switches, relays, terminal blocks, labeling, panel lighting dimmer, and master switch. * The panel fits in the top center of a Cozy MK4 instrument panel. * Has an avionics master switch with a filtered avionics sub-bus. * Power panel weight is about 2.5 pounds. * Also includes the alternator output ckt breaker and push buttons for electric engine primer and alarm silence. * Panel is complete and prewired, includes schematic and installation notes. ($425.00 U.S.$) 3) A variant of the above power panel is also available for those using the AerCanard style instrument panel. It a two piece unit made to fit accross the top of the instrument panel with the right half mounted in the "canted" radio stack area. Functions are very similar to the standard panel. 4) There is also the "Mini Power Panel". It is physically smaller than the MK4 type panel. They are currently installed in MK3's, Pulsars, RV6's, KitFoxes, etc. This panel is listed in the Aircraft Spruce catalog for reference, yes I do sell them direct... ($350.00 U.S.$) 5) A whole bunch of other misc nice to have little items too numerous to mention so I won't bore you with the mundane details about them right now but I'll send you some drawings if you will be so good as to send me a physical mailing address. Whew! Take Care & Safe Flying, Wayne aka Composite Design Cozy MK3 N452WL Voice (>7pm EST) (407) 664-8953 or 664-9239 email wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 15:54:53 EST From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Subject: Re: Phone # for Jeff Rose please Chuck, I'm not sure about Jeff's new number but he's in with Navaid Devices (the guys who mfg the autopilot). Navaid's number is in Sport Aviation and Kit Planes. If you still don't find him contact me again. Wayne Lanza Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:49:24 -0600 From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Re: Re[4]: 2427 Epoxy "Larry Schuler" wrote: > Nat Who? > > Do you have a Ph/address for Aerospace Composites? Sorry this took so long. Aerospace Composite Products 14210 Doolittle Dr. San Leandro CA 94577 510 352-2022 Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Phoenix, AZ | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ Current Status: Ch 9 o o Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:36:56 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: ARCHIVE CHANGE & Resin AeroCad's AeroCanard KIT TOP SPEED----------------------------------------------------225 CRUISE, MPH.-------------------------------------------------205 RANGE. S.M.-------------------------------------------------1000 RATE OF CLIMB, FPM------------------------------------------1700 TAKE OFF ROLL, FT.------------------------------------------1000 LANDING DISTANCE, FT.---------------------------------------1500 SERVICE CEILING, FT.--------------------------------------25,000 ENGINE USED------------------------------------------LYC LIO-360 HP/HP RANGE------------------------------------------180/160-200 FUEL CAPACITY, GAL.-------------------------------------------62 EMPTY WEIGHT, LB.-------------------------------------------1200 GROSS WEIGHT, LB.-------------------------------------------2150 HEIGHT, FT.-------------------------------------------------7.75 LENGTH, FT.------------------------------------------------16.75 WING SPAN--------------------------------------------------28.10 WING AREA--------------------------------------------------102.3 NO. OF SEATS---------------------------------------------------4 LANDING GEAR------------------------------------TRI/NOSE GEAR /R BLDG. MATERIALS----------------------------------------COMPOSITE BLDG. TIME, MAN HOURS---------------------------------------1400 INFO PACK---------------------------------------------------FREE TOTAL KIT COST----------------------------------------$20,935.00 KITS LESS RAW MATERIAL / HARDWARE---------------------$13,883.00 WE HAVE 10 CONSTRUCTION VIDEOS 2 WINGS / WINGLETS 2 CANARD 1 TOP & WINDOWS for the AeroCanard 5 FUSELAGE for the AeroCanard IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE BUILDING PROCESS THE VIDEOS CAN BE PURCHASED FOR $15.00 PER TAPE PLUS $3.00 SHIPPING for 1-3 tapes $5.00 for 4-10 tapes THESE ARE REFUNDABLE WITH PURCHASE OF KITS AeroCanard Kit info $13,883.00 without raw material $20,935.00 with raw material AeroCad Inc. 910-961-2238 1445 Crater Lane, Yadkinville, NC. 27055 FUSELAGE.......... Upper & Lower Half: $5550.00 total for Carbon option $5350.00 Glass Molded 5lb PVC /Vacuum bagged composite shell with Epoxy primer outer coat, pre-marked for all cutouts (TOP) Nose,Canard cover,instrument cover, canopy frame, turtle back with upper Glass cowling attached $2500.00,or $2600.00 carbon option (BOTTOM) Lower nose $250.00, Fiber Glass Lower Cowling $250.00, carbon $350.00 option Fuselage tub with Longerons $2350.00 FUEL/BAGGAGE STRAKES: $1600.00 2 Uppers, 2 Lowers, Molded PVC /Vacuum bagged composite shell with Epoxy primer outer coat SPAR SECTIONS: Labor only $310.00 Spars are match-drilled for bolt bushings Main Wing Spars: 2 pre-molded $1000.00 Center Section Spar: 1 pre-molded box spar $1800.00 Canard Spar: 1 pre-molded $450.00 FOAM CORES: All foam cores are precut with level lines in place for proper alignment Wing Cores: 2 leading edge, 3 trailing edge - for both wings. $700.00 Winglet Cores: 2 uppers, 2 lowers for both wings. $300.00 Canard Cores: 4 leading edge, 4 trailing edge, 2 ends $175.00 Elevators: 4 cores $25.00 LANDING GEAR: Mains: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass (with out UNI rap) $575.00 (or) Mains: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass (with UNI rap) $650.00 Nose: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass $68.00 MOLDED FAIRING: $1305.00 600-6 Wheel pants: 2 Mains $220.00 2 - Main gear to fuselage fairing $50.00 3 - Air outlet scoops $35.00 1 - Spinner & Airflow guide $140.00 1 - Front composite seat bottoms $70.00 1 - Rear composite seat bottoms $70.00 4 - Cowl to wing root fairing $60.00 2 - Exhaust pipe fairing $60.00 3 - NACA Inlets $30.00 4 - Molded armrests - front & back $140.00 2 - Arm pit scoops $30.00 2 - Canard tips $30.00 1 - 3 1/2 gallon fuel sump tank & cover $60.00 1 - solid 1/8" canted Instrument panel $115.00 1 - Nose cone with door $60.00 1 - Nose wheel & strut doors $50.00 2 - Fuselage conduits $60.00 1 - Nose wheel cover $25.00 WINDOWS: $150.00 4 rear windows - 1/8" Plexiglas (clear, light or dark tint). HARDWARE / RAW MATERIAL / CONTROL SYSTEM: $7052.00 PURCHASED FROM: WICKS, AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & BROCK MANUF. All AN hardware: nuts, bolts, screws, washers, hinges, pulleys, and cables to complete airframe. * All pre-machined parts for complete control, brake, trim, and door systems. (No welding necessary). * Hinges for canard-elevator assembly. All Mil-spec hinges for ailerons, rudders, door, & speed brake. * Electrical actuator and related parts for trim and speed brake systems. * Brake lines, and HD 5" Cleveland brakes. * 2 - 500-5 low profile main wheels, tires/tubes. * 1 - 340 x 5.00 nose wheel, tire/tube. * Engine mount (Lycoming engine 0-320 to I0-360 160 HP - 200 HP). * All fiberglass cloth, epoxy resin, foam plywood core material, Supply of application brushes, fillers, extenders, & mixing sticks. Pre-formed full bubble, 3/16" Plexiglas canopy (clear or light tint), * 2 - Extruded aluminum I-beam straightedges (wing/canard construction). Side Sticks: 3 axis Trim: Pitch & Roll Speed Brake: Electric Rudder Pedals: Fully adjustable Pilot & Copilot Brakes: Master cylinders, Pilot & Copilot TOTAL KIT PRICE: $13,883.00 Jan 96 - Dec 31 1996 Raw material is purchased by builder. Total kits $13,883.00 less raw material, hardware and controls Crating charge per crate ($275.00) 2 crate minimum per total kit. 20% Down & Purchase Agreement signed to process orders / FOB Yadkinville / NC tax when applicable Plumbing, electrical, engine or engine related parts, avionics, interior upholstery finishing materials and paint are not included with the AeroCanard kit. 10 construction videos and plans come with kit DIFFERENCES ON FUSELAGES AEROCANARD CZ4 MKIV VELOCITY FG FRONT SEAT 42" 42" 42.50" REAR SEAT 39.50" 36" 39.50" HEAD ROOM WIDTH FRONT SEAT 38" 36" 40" HEAD ROOM WIDTH REAR SEAT 38" 36" 38" ENGINES USED O-320 - IO-360 O-360 O-320 - IO-360 CONTROL STICK 2 - SIDE STICKS 2 - SIDE STICKS 1 - CENTER STICK THROTTLE QUADRANT CENTER CENTER LEFT SIDE ONLY BRAKE PEDALS (Adjustable) BOTH SIDES 5" COPILOT ONLY 5" BOTH SIDES 2" SPEED BRAKE ELECTRIC MANUAL ELECTRIC COCKPIT HEAT NOSE OIL COOLER MUFF OFF EXHAUST NOSE OIL COOLER STANDARD MAIN WHEELS 600-6 Double puck brakes 500-5 Single puck 600-6 Single puck MAIN GEAR REMOVABLE REMOVABLE NON REMOVABLE REMOVABLE INSTRUMENT COVER YES YES NO EMPTY WEIGHT STANDARD MODEL 1200 LBS 1150 LBS 1300 LBS GROSS WEIGHT 2150 LBS 2050 LBS 2250 LBS USEFUL LOAD LESS GAS 950 LBS 900 LBS 950 LBS FUEL USEFUL 63 GAL 52 GAL 65 GAL TYPE SEATS USED F/BENCH R/BENCH F/BUCKET R/BUCKET F/BUCKET R/BENCH NOSE GEAR (STANDARD) RETRACTABLE RETRACTABLE FIXED EST. TIME TO BUILD KIT 1400 MH 2500 MH or 1400 MH 1400 MH TOTAL BREAK DOWN OF KITS 16+ TOTAL 16+ TOTAL 2 TOTAL TOTAL PRICE ON KITS $21,135.00 $19,125.00 $23,000.00 TOTAL EXTRA PRICE FOR COMPLETED COMPONENTS: add to price sub kits: R1145MS CANARD - CHAPTER 10 COMPLETE, MATERIAL INCLUDED. $800.00 R1145MS ELEVATORS - CHAPTER 11 STEP 1,2,3 COMPLETE. $220.00 EACH WINGS - CHAPTER 19 STEP 1-8 COMPLETE, MATERIAL INCLUDED $1850.00 PER SET WINGLETS - CHAPTER 20 STEP 1&2 COMPLETE, COM ANTENNA INSTALLED, MATERIAL INCLUDED $330.00 EACH ELECTRIC EZ-LIFT OPTION FOR THE AEROCANARD / CZ4 $750.00 ENGINE MOUNTS FOR LYCOMINGS ON THE AEROCANARD / CZ4 $520.00 (PART OF RAW MATERIAL) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:37:18 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: ARCHIVE CHANGE (file 2) see attachments (cozymkiv.txt) AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com AeroCad's CZ4 KIT (replaces Cozy MkIV name) TOP SPEED----------------------------------------------------220 CRUISE, MPH.-------------------------------------------------200 RANGE. S.M.-------------------------------------------------1000 RATE OF CLIME, FPM------------------------------------------1500 TAKE OFF ROLL, FT.------------------------------------------1200 LANDING DISTANCE, FT.---------------------------------------1500 SERVICE CEILING, FT.--------------------------------------20,000 ENGINE USED--------------------------------------------LYC O-360 HP/HP RANGE------------------------------------------180/160-200 FUEL CAPACITY, GAL.-------------------------------------------52 EMPTY WEIGHT, LB.-------------------------------------------1150 GROSS WEIGHT, LB.-------------------------------------------2050 HEIGHT, FT.-------------------------------------------------7.75 LENGTH, FT.------------------------------------------------16.75 WING SPAN--------------------------------------------------28.10 WING AREA--------------------------------------------------102.3 NO. OF SEATS---------------------------------------------------4 LANDING GEAR------------------------------------TRI/NOSE GEAR /R BLDG. MATERIALS----------------------------------------COMPOSITE BLDG. TIME, MAN HOURS---------------------------------------1500 INFO PACK---------------------------------------------------FREE TOTAL KIT COST----------------------------------------$19,125.00 KITS LESS RAW MATERIAL / HARDWARE---------------------$12,073.00 WE HAVE 10 CONSTRUCTION VIDEOS 2 WINGS / WINGLETS 2 CANARD 1 TOP & WINDOWS for the AeroCanard/CZ4 5 FUSELAGE for the AeroCanard/CZ4 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE BUILDING PROCESS THE VIDEOS CAN BE PURCHASED FOR $15.00 PER TAPE PLUS $3.00 SHIPPING for 1-3 tapes $5.00 for 4-10 tapes THESE ARE REFUNDABLE WITH PURCHASE OF KITS CZ4 KIT INFO $12,073.00 without raw material $19,125.00 with raw material AeroCad Inc. 910-961-2238 1445 Crater Lane, Yadkinville, NC. 27055 FUSELAGE.......... Upper & Lower Half: $3660.00 total Molded PVC /Vacuum bagged composite shell with Epoxy primmer outer coat, pre-marked for all cutouts Nose,Canard cover $250.00, Lower nose $250.00, Turtle-Back $360.00, Upper Cowling $225.00, Lower Cowling $225.00, Fuselage tub with Longerons $2350.00 FUEL/BAGGAGE STRAKES: $1600.00 2 Uppers, 2 Lowers, Molded PVC /Vacuum bagged composite shell with Epoxy primer outer coat SPAR SECTIONS: Labor only $310.00 Spars are match-drilled for bolt bushings Main Wing Spars: 2 pre-molded $1000.00 Center Section Spar: 1 pre-molded box spar $1800.00 Canard Spar: 1 pre-molded $450.00 FOAM CORES: All foam cores are precut with level lines in place for proper alignment Wing Cores: 2 leading edge, 3 trailing edge - for both wings. $700.00 Winglet Cores: 2 uppers, 2 lowers for both wings. $300.00 Canard Cores: 4 leading edge, 4 trailing edge, 2 ends $175.00 Elevators: 4 cores $25.00 LANDING GEAR: Mains: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass (with out UNI rap) $575.00 (or) Mains: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass (with UNI rap) $650.00 Nose: 1 piece pre-molded S-2 fiberglass $68.00 MOLDED FAIRING: $1185.00 600-6 Wheel pants: 2 Mains $220.00 2 - Main gear to fuselage fairing $50.00 3 - Air outlet scoops $35.00 1 - Spinner & Airflow guide $140.00 1 - Front composite seat bottoms $70.00 1 - Rear composite seat bottoms $70.00 3 - NACA Inlets $30.00 4 - Molded armrests - front & back $140.00 2 - Arm pit scoops $30.00 2 - Canard tips $30.00 1 - 3 1/2 gallon fuel sump tank & cover $60.00 1 - solid 1/8" canted Instrument panel $115.00 1 - Nose cone with door $60.00 1 - Nose wheel & strut doors $50.00 2 - Fuselage conduits $60.00 1 - Nose wheel cover $25.00 WINDOWS: $150.00 4 rear windows - 1/8" Plexiglas (clear, light or dark tint). HARDWARE / RAW MATERIAL / CONTROL SYSTEM: $7052.00 PURCHASED FROM: WICKS, AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & BROCK MANUF. All AN hardware: nuts, bolts, screws, washers, hinges, pulleys, and cables to complete airframe. * All pre-machined parts for complete control, brake, trim, and door systems. (No welding necessary). * Hinges for canard-elevator assembly. All Mil-spec hinges for ailerons, rudders, door, & speed brake. * Electrical actuator and related parts for trim and speed brake systems. * Brake lines, and HD 5" Cleveland brakes. * 2 - 500-5 low profile main wheels, tires/tubes. * 1 - 340 x 5.00 nose wheel, tire/tube. * Engine mount (Lycoming engine 0-320 to I0-360 160 HP - 200 HP). * All fiberglass cloth, epoxy resin, foam plywood core material, Supply of application brushes, fillers, extenders, & mixing sticks. Pre-formed full bubble, 3/16" Plexiglas canopy (clear or light tint), * 2 - Extruded aluminum I-beam straightedges (wing/canard construction). Side Sticks: 3 axis Trim: Pitch & Roll Speed Brake: Electric Rudder Pedals: Fully adjustable Pilot & Copilot Brakes: Master cylinders, Pilot & Copilot TOTAL KIT PRICE: $12,073.00 Jan 96 - Dec 31 1996 Raw materiel is purchased by builder. Total kits $12,073.00 less raw material, hardware and controls Crating charge per crate ($275.00) 2 crate minimun per total kit. 20% Down & Purchase Agreement signed to process orders / FOB Yadkinville / NC tax when applicable Plumbing, electrical, engine or engine related parts, avionics, interior upholstery finishing materials and paint are not included with the Cosy MKIV kit. 10 construction videos and plans come with kit. From: Michael Antares Subject: RE: epoxy Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 11:58:57 -0800 So I'm happy now new stuff is on it's way, but I'm suprised I had to go all the way to the top to get satisfaction. I thought Wicks was better than that....? Maybe A/S ain't so bad? Neil Clayton All I can say is that I've worked with Janet at Wicks for the last year and she has always been extremely helpful and in a couple of instances went way out of her way to rectify a problem. When I call Wicks I always ask for her--I'm sure if you do the same you will be satisfied with the results. Michael Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 20:52:44 -0500 From: CCady@aol.com Subject: Safety-Poxy II equivalent source I've found a source that has Safe-T-Poxy II and will be stocking the new equivalent since the company HP Fuller which bought the line apparently is phasing it out of production. The new material is apparently being formulated by the original chemist. The new resin is called EZ-10 and the hardner is EZ-84 The company is called Diversified Materials (800) 245-3053 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:18:59 -0500 From: campbell@ee.umn.edu (prof S. A. Campbell) Subject: Antenna (Chap 7) I spoke to RST today (after numerous phone attempts). They now have a web page that has all of their catelog information including prices online. You can reach it at www:rst-eng.com. Steve Campbell Cozy #473 - Chapter 7 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:53:18 -0500 From: campbell@ee.umn.edu (prof S. A. Campbell) Subject: RST Eng My apologies - It's www.rst-engr.com Steve Campbell Cozy #473 - Chapter 7 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:32:28 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: A Good Man at RST A rousing second to your statements. RST is one of those seemingly rarer companies that is a joy to work with and they are certainly to be commended for being the good people that they are. Although very much larger, Wicks Aircraft and especially Janet in sales has also always left me with a warm fuzzy feeling--it is good to have these services surrounding the Cozy. 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove CA 94951 707.664.1171 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13 (next effort). Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 00:19:55 -0400 From: Robajohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Damark Phone Number If you are interested in buying a GPS (or anything else) from Damark move fast! They are a clearing house. Once they sell out of something they may not have it again for quite a while, if ever. I missed out on a great price on one of those hot air oven things. Been two years now and they still have not gotten anymore ( What a sad and lonely life I lead, *sigh*) > DAMARK > 7101 Winnetka Ave. N. > P.O. Box 9437 > Minneapolis, MN 55430-9437 > > Phone: 1 (800) 729-9000 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 11:02:19 EDT From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Subject: COZY: Lycoming Engines for sale A reputable source of engines (here in florida) is Quality Aircraft Salvage located in Groveland (west of orlando). The owner is Don Huntington, phone# 800-752-6399 (800-PLANE99). He doesn't have engines at give-away prices, but a bunch of us in the central fla. area have bought GOOD airworthy engines and/or parts from Don. He's familiar with experimentals, owns a Long-EZ, and is HONEST. If you call him, please mention my name. Nothing in it for me, I'd just appreciate the note. Hope this will help ... Safe Flying, Wayne Lanza Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 10:08:07 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Organization: Patient Monitoring Division - Andover Subject: [Fwd: Re: Concealed Rudder Horns for EZ type a-c] Path: news.an.hp.com!col.hp.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!usenet From: dkok@execpc.com (Dan Kok) Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt Subject: Re: Concealed Rudder Horns for EZ type a-c Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:28:07 GMT Organization: Exec-PC BBS - Milwaukee, WI Lines: 31 Message-ID: <4m67n0$8eo@daily-planet.execpc.com> References: <4m3rpe$3tn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: dkok@execpc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: gypsymoth.execpc.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 smilescozy@aol.com (SMilesCozy) wrote: >Does anyone know where I can get drawings or other information on >concealed rudder horns for EZ type aircraft. >thanks, smilescozy I'm told that even though Rutan Aircraft Factory does not sell Vari-Eze or Long EZ plans any more that several plan supplements are still available from them. They are; Engine Installation Special Performance Canard High Performance Rudder Flush Rudder Bellhorn Their address and phone number is; Rutan Aircraft Factory 1654 Flightline Mojave, CA 93501 (805)824-2645 (Tuesdays only and only half the day I think) If this is the case, please e-mail me back because I need all of the above, I just haven't called yet. Thanks. -- Dan Kok dfkok@execpc.com Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 13:35:31 -0500 From: Larry Jansch Subject: COZY: Re: Cozy: Baggage pods Re: Baggage pods and Relief tubes. You should read "The Complete Guide to Rutan Aircraft - 3rd Edition" by Don & Julia Downie, ISBN 0-8306-2420-1, printed by Tab Books. There might be later editions -- I got this one in a book closeout store about five years back. It's a remarkably complete account of RAF's birth (Burt - The Early Years), expansion, and final transformation into SCALED Composites. There is a chapter or so on each of the aircraft they sold plans for. It also has info in chapter 8 on baggage pods, relief tubes, and other mods as well as bios of or interviews with EZ buiders who did perverted things to their kits, like putting the seats in side by side instead of in tandem. ;-) To be sure, the copy I have was printed in 1987, so some of the sources therein might be dated. You might also check the back issues of Canard Pusher. No point in reinventing the wheel -- it's been done, and documented, for a change! Contact: Tab Books, Inc. Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17214-0850 From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Used parts Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 10:30:01 MDT > 1. All the parts that are used on our airplanes are > realitively simple parts that could be made by any good > manufacturing shop, why are there no competitors if the > prices are too high? I think it is a matter of potential volume of sales. LongEZ and Varieze parts are a declining market. Cozy plans have world wide sales of 500 sets of over a period of 5 years. However, if you consider that 50% of those plan sets will sit around gathering dust for all eternity, that diminishes the market to at most 50 sets of parts per year. And many of those builders will not get to Chapter 8 where Brock gets his first $7 for a step. Nat has discouraged those who have tried to compete with Brock for fear of losing him as a supplier so you probably won't get any help there (i.e. getting 'authorized supplier' status). > 2. How much of the cost of the parts and supplies we > purchase is overhead cost caused by the cost of product > liability insurance (or if this is not affordable, the cost > of risking the sellers total net worth)? Most aircraft kit companies address this problem by keeping themselves cash and asset poor, making them an unlikely target for a lawsuit. There's nothing more discouraging for a lawyer than a defendant with no insurance and no assets. However, there is always the risk of losing one's personal assets, which I'm sure scares off a lot of potential suppliers. > 3. What part of the liability insurance cost is attributible > to Clinton's veto of the punitive damage reform > bill? Burt Rutan made a simple recommendation at Oshkosh which could potentially solve our liability woes. 1. Loser pays. 2. All _punitive_ awards go to a trust fund, not to lawyers or plaintiffs. Other countries have systems with these features and don't have the nonsense we endure in this country. Unfortunately, our country's laws are written by lawyers and they really seem to look out for themselves. I'm not sure how much the spectre of liability drives Brock price increases. Has he ever been sued? If his parts conform to the designer's specifications, then it would be hard to convince a jury of his liability for an accident. I think that part of his problem is that his market is drying up. He hasn't seen a new design in 5 years and some of the stuff in his catalog must have 0 volume. How many people do you know building his gyroplanes, or Variviggens, or Marquart Chargers? I know he solicits business as a job shop for other industries. It's entirely possible that these plane parts are only a hobby for him. Brock desperately needs to step into the 20th century. Did you know that all his invoices are hand-typed? This tells me that he has no computer record of orders, customers, sales volumes, etc. He doesn't take credit card orders, so you have to order parts the old fashioned way, with a check and by filling out an order. (The order form also serves as a liability release.) Then you have to send another check to cover the shipping because they won't estimate the shipping charges. I believe that this latest increase puts him dangerously close to pushing builders into searching for other alternatives and may have the effect of actually reducing his revenue. I've avoided buying the chapter 9 parts by making them myself. He got me on the canard pieces which added up to more than $500 alone (which was around $100 more than the prices in a catalog I got last year). As you can see I'm looking for alternative sources for the Chapter 13 parts. Brock could really use a fancy WWW site, a method for accepting credit card orders, and a few new plans-built designs. But that's not going to fall into his lap any time soon. He could probably afford to drop a lot the stuff that doesn't sell from the catalog. No one wants to spend $5 for a 64-page catalog with only 4 pages of relevant parts. Oh, it's so much fun to vent! Thanks for listening :-). Lee Devlin From: Paul.Krasa-1@pp.ksc.nasa.gov (Krasa, Paul) Organization: Kennedy Space Center, FL Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:52:45 -0400 Subject: RE: COZY: Used parts Hi First I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the group. My name is Paul Krasa, I work for NASA at Kennedy Space Center as a mechanical engineer. I'm in the final stages of building a Long-EZ (airplane in primer, starting the electrical installation) and plan to build a Defiant next. Jeff Russel said: >I think I figured out what bugs me so much about Brock (where this price >thing mostly started). Yes, he charges a lot, and yes, he's still living >in the 1960's - but what really bothers me is that given the prices he >charges, his quality is WAY too variable. Some stuff is perfect, dead >nuts on, and then some stuff is just completely out of specification. I agree Brock's quality varies, but I found that by talking to other builders I knew what was good and what was bad. UnfortunateIy, they paid the price (both in time and money) to find out what's good and what's bad. I really enjoy making aluminum parts, so the only parts I bought were the ones that needed to be heat treated, welded or were so complicated that I didn't feel like making them. That's the nice thing about homebuilding from plans; I can chose what to buy and what to make. Brock may be expensive but I'm glad he's making parts for homebulit airplanes; if he wasn't, I would have to make everything myself. Paul Krasa Long-EZ 214LP !--*--! 90% complete/ 50% to go Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:09:42 -0700 From: Sam Pavel Subject: COZY: Wicks/ASS Comparison Greetings Cozy enthusiasts, After much anticipation, my plans (#544) arrived. I was like a boy at Christmas opening the envelope. I spent the next several hours perusing the material, until I was rudely interrupted for dinner. So as not to bore you all with my newbe enthusiasm, I'll jump straight to my question. I did a brief overview of the material by chapters and then took out the Wicks and ASS catalogs. Wicks lies out the materials per the plans (i.e. chapter by chapter), ASS does not. However, several of the items in the ASS catalog were less expensive. Has anyone done a more thorough comparison on the two companies? Wicks seems awfully darned convenient. However, if the price difference is great enough it seems that comparison shopping would be beneficial. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Sam Sam Pavel Doctoral Student in Economics University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556 e-mail: pavel@nd.edu phone: (219)273-0321 "In order to be useful a theory has to be simple." - M. Kalecki Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:47:51 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Wicks/ASS Comparison >From Sam Pavel: "However, several of the items in the ASS catalog were less expensive. Has anyone done a more thorough comparison on the two companies? Wicks seems awfully darned convenient. However, if the price difference is great enough it seems that comparison shopping would be beneficial. Any thoughts?" Third try. I think hitting the tab key transmitted the message: Thoughts on mimimizing costs: - I order once a year at Oshkosh. Wicks gives a ten percent discount for all orders placed there. - I have the order shipped to Wisconsin (I have a lake cabin there) so as to avoid sales tax. Fond du Lac is in the same UPS zone as Chicago. - Buy now -- not later. Costs are going up a 10 to 25% per year. - Make sure you specify that they (Wicks or AS&S) are not to short ship any order. The look upon their shipping department as a major profit center. I've had them ship orders less a tiny bag of bolts costing a few bucks only to have to pay another couple dollars to have the bolts shipped later. Both companies have shipped orders in up to three separate shipments resulting in ridiculous shipping fees. My $.02. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 19:53:28 +0000 From: Gary Buscombe Subject: Re: COZY: Wicks/ASS Comparison Sam (and other builders)...Order from Wicks as often as you can, unless you just have to get something that either Wicks doesn't have or is out of stock. Aircraft Spruce is only a couple of hours away from me in Fullerton ( I live in Big Bear Lake, CA) but I have learned to avoid doing business with them, as many other builders have. They seem to not have a good system of stocking parts or shipping, so you might get one part one day, another later on, or not at all. Wicks tends to fill order completely the first time and that alone saves high shipping costs. You'd think that a company that sponsors so many aircraft events would do a better job in the order dept. Also Wicks has a good customer service department who seem to know that customer satisfaction and service is important, while ASS could care less sometimes. For example, some parts have been backorder from ASS since Christmas, 95, and not a word from them! (I'll be getting them elsewhere soon). The small difference is parts prices, if any, is a small price to pay for satisfaction and timely delivery gbuscombe@bigbear.com N140CZ (2/3 completed..Mk4) From: Marc Zeitlin Date: Sat, 15 Jun 96 16:52:17 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Wicks/ASS Comparison Sam Pavel writes: >.................... Has anyone done a more thorough comparison on the two >companies? Wicks seems awfully darned convenient. However, if the price >difference is great enough it seems that comparison shopping would be >beneficial. Any thoughts? I spent a lot of time doing just this for the first few chapters when I first got the plans. Some of the analysis is in the spreadsheet available on the web page. Basically, I found that the differences were small, and got swamped by shipping costs anyway. Go with the supplier that's closer to lower the shipping costs unless you find a large difference in price. I buy from Wicks since I'm on the east coast. Given the number of parts in the parts list, you could spend a LOT of time comparing prices. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: RE: COZY: Used parts (fwd) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 96 16:58:13 EDT Paul Krasa wrote: >Jeff Russel said: > >>I think I figured out what bugs me so much about Brock (where this price >>thing mostly started). Yes, he charges a lot, and yes, he's still >living......... Just an administrative correction - I wrote the above comment, NOT Jeff Russell!! Please be careful with attributions - Brock can hate me all he wants, but I don't think Jeff needs Brock on his case :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.0-6 #4800) id <01I5Y17KH0NK8X170E@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: COZY: Machined Part I also share Marc's and Lee's concerns about the virtual monopoly Ken Brock has in regards to the machined parts for our planes, and the escalating prices. I have a local friend, Gary Ham who lives here in Charleston, SC,. He is currently in the US Air Force and is due to retire next year. He has 19 years experience in the aircraft machine shop, 8 year as a certified aircraft TIG welder, and is certified in all phases of aircraft structural repair. Most importantly, he is very interested in building airplane parts for us and is sensitive to the special needs of aircraft parts. He has a fully equipped machine shop, including welding equipment, and wants to establish a business before he retires. He has machined parts for several LongEZE's while living in Arizona. He is making the parts for my Cozy, and I am very pleased with his work. I think Gary is an excellent supplement / alternative to Ken Brock. I have discussed with him about the veriablity of Brock's tolerances. He understands the importance of quality parts. Additionally, he also has a very good supplier of aircraft metals at whole sale prices. I don't know what Brock's current prices are. I don't want to know. I will let Gary establish his price quotes without me biasing him one way or the other. This may be a great opportunity to get some parts at reasonable prices. If this sounds like a sales pitch. It is not. I am getting nothing out of this other than helping our group and a friend. I will be happy when Gary can take over completely and I am out of the picture. I have a house to renovate, a plane to upgrade and a plane to complete. I will assist the group by passing orders through to Gary until he gets his own internet connection (pending) and supply him with the drawing from my own sets of plans. I have plans for the Cozy and the Cozy Mark IV. If you need something special I am confident he will be able to work off drawings you supply. Let me know what you think... : ) Reguards, Nick Ugolini unick@charleston.net Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 19:56:52 -0400 From: Lenpilot@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Wicks/AS&S Comparison In a message dated 96-06-15 12:10:18 EDT, you write: > Wicks lies out the materials per the plans (i.e. chapter by >chapter), ASS does not. However, several of the items in the ASS catalog >were less expensive. Has anyone done a more thorough comparison on the two >companies? Wicks seems awfully darned convenient. However, if the price >difference is great enough it seems that comparison shopping would be >beneficial. Any thoughts? Sam, I posed this very question to Nat at Sun & Fun. He would not comit to an answer. So I proceded to buy parts from wicks. The main reason for me was that the parts/suplies are itemized and the cost for each is provided individualy. Some of the "tools kit" I was able to replace with parts obtained locally. Example--Paper cups at about 1/4 the price, (be carefull to buy cups that aren't waxed) another member suggested paint brushes from Harbor Freight. They were half the price of wicks, and numerous other things. As far as the actual chapter items go, You can't really replace those, they have to be from Wicks or Aircraft Specialty Spruce. ( Someone will probably correct me here if I am wrong :-) ) I don't know if anyone has tried this, But you could call Wicks and ask if they would be willing to match Aircraft Specialty Spruces price. What have you got to loose. I personally like the convenience of buying a chapter or two at a time. I know I can get that from Wicks. You may be able to get that from Aircraft Specialty Spruce, but I have never checked. Leonard Farneth lenpilot@aol.com Cozy IV # 522 Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 11:55:33 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Machined Part Nick Ugolini wrote: "I will assist the group by passing orders through to Gary until he gets his own internet connection (pending) and supply him with the drawing from my own sets of plans. I have plans for the Cozy and the Cozy Mark IV. If you need something special I am confident he will be able to work off drawings you supply. " I for one think that getting another supplier involved can only be to every ones benefit. Competition virtually always results in price competition and close attention to quality. I complained about Brock's prices at Nat's forum at OSH last year. After the forum a fellow came up and said he had a casting for the nose wheel fork and would be into manufacturing other parts soon. Unfortunately I've heard nothing from him yet. I'd certainly be interested in what Nick's friend can do with the control system. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:21:28 -0400 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: COZY: Need stuff to wire your plane? When you get to the point of starting the electrical systems installation, call American Avionics for one of their catalogs. Their number is 800-518-5858. They put out a decent monthly catalog, and carry all manner of avionics, guages. headsets, intercoms, mags, Lyc parts, tools, tires, strobes, etc., and their prices are very competitive. They also carry most of the zillion little parts you'll need to wire your plane (like ring connectors, circuit breakers, switches, milspec wire, etc. Due to my typical lack of adequate planning, I've placed at least 5 orders with them over the last 3 months, and I've had great luck with their service. On one order I asked for 50 feet of 20 guage 2 pair shielded cable and mistakenly got 22 guage wire instead. Expecting major hassles (like "well our records show that that's what you ordered"), I called them up and was surprised to find they were very willing to fix the problem right away. The correct wire came within a few days, and they let me keep the wrong wire - no hassle of sending it back. Now that's service! Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 9:37:54 MDT Marc wrote: > I had a bit of a surprise today when I called Airplane Plastics Co. to order > my Canopy and windows. Three months ago when I called for a price I was > quoted $330 for the Canopy and $150 for the windows. When I called today I > was told the cost has gone up a little. The Canopy was now $632 and $288 for > windows. I don't mind telling you I was just all little tongue tied. I called Airplane Plastics the other day and received the bad news. I wanted to make an offer on a LongEZ with a broken canopy and was informed that it would cost $760 (!) to replace the glass. This was about double what I expected. I then asked about the Cozy canopy and was shocked to find that it had almost doubled with a single price increase. With inflation running around 3% for the last 5 years, I'm at a complete loss to explain what's happening to the cost of materials for homebuilding. Jeff deserves a lot of thanks for his offer let us buy our canopies through his volume buying discount. I just wish I knew in advance that the canopy and windows were going up by $430 in one fell swoop. Lee Devlin From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 15:25:20 EDT Garfield wrote (with respect to Canopy prices): >Not really an explanation so much as a prognosis. Sounds to me like >they are about to exit the business. > >Can anyone suggest an alternative supplier...one whose more reasonable >pricing we can encourage by giving them our business instead of these >bloodsuckers at APC. Given my past comments about Brock and pricing, this may sound strange coming from me, but I'm not sure we can (or at least should) blame Airplane Plastics for the price increases. Given that HP does a lot of injection molding of polycarbonates (guess what canopies [plexiglas (tm)] are made of?) and I design(ed) many PC parts, I get to keep track of plastics prices. PC prices have gone through the roof lately (past year or two) and availability is low (big conspiracy among the manufacturers, we think :-) ). So, APC may be having a hard time getting LARGE sheets of PC at anything resembling reasonable prices (especially in low volumes - HP buys MILLIONS of pounds of PC at a time, and our prices have still increased by 50% - 100% and we scrounge for supplies) and for all we know, have been artificially keeping the price low for as long as they could. Now, if no OTHER canopy blowers are raising prices, then I'm full of it :-), but I wouldn't be surprised if all PC part prices rose a lot. Jeff still sells them for the old price - we'll see how long his supplier (Jeff, you said Fox the first time and APC the second time - which is it?) keeps the prices down. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 19:37:35 -0700 From: blairhlm@ix.netcom.com (Blair Hileman) Subject: COZY: Vacuum pump, parts Attended the Advanced Composite class in Aurora,Ill. this past weekend. Someone there suggested a trip to American Science & Surplus where several eager builders found: Gast vacuum pump, used but works well for $ 75.00. The same pump new w/ accesories sells for $ 425.00! Post cure 220 degree thermometer new for $ 5.50. Similar thermometer new sells for $ 9.67. Post cure 120v blower w/ fan & duct new for $ 8.75 New plastic syringe w/ long plastic tip for injecting epoxy into pesky air bubbles .75 cents. WYSIWYG, so its best to go in person but they do have a lot of good stuff cheap, a catalog, and fax order # 800-934-0722, phone # 847-982-0870 (Skokie store). Blair R. Hileman blairhlm@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 23:42:28 From: RSiebert1@gnn.com (Reid Siebert) Subject: COZY: Matco Wheels & Brakes While on a trip to Salt Lake City, Utah, I made a stop at Matco Manufacturing, and had a very friendly and educational visit with Phil Mattingly, the company's president and resident genius. He gave me the cook's tour of his facility, and told me more about brakes than I have found in text books and maintenance manuals. I was planning to install six-inch wheels on my Cozy's main strut, and had ordered a couple of his heavy-duty sets of axles, wheels, and brakes. They are beautifully built units that are each capable of absorbing well over 335,000 ft-lbs. of kinetic energy! I opted for six-inch wheel sets because I plan to go into grass strips, but that's another story. Matco builds many sizes of wheels, brakes, axles, and all the other related parts for many homebuilt kits, certified aircraft, and military projects (drones). I heartily recommend the company, its boss, and his products. Right now he is working on setting up a web site, but he can be reached by email at Wheels7951@aol.com. Call for their catalog ($10.00) at 801-486-7574. Jodie will send one to you. Fax number is 801-486-7581. BTW: Phil is scheduled to talk about aircraft wheels and brakes at one of the Oshkosh Forums. I plan to attend. Here is a list of parts I bought: One each - AA09 Kit consisting of two each six-inch wheels, brakes, axles, MC-4 master cylinders, and axle nuts. Also 15-feet of brake tubing, and 6 tubing fittings. Price: $763.23 One each PV-1 parking brake valve. Price: $90.35 One each R-100K remote reservoir kit. Price: $28.99 Two each McCreary AirTrac 6-inch tires and tubes. Price: $176.83 Their five-inch wheels & brakes are very price competitive, and the heaviest-duty model in that size will absorb over 335,000 ft-lbs of kinetic energy. That's far more than the Cozy can normally produce! Reid Siebert Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:07:22 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: F-28 Bulkhead Robert Mancuso asks: Has anyone out there used a featherlight nose or any featherlight products ?? Is thier work good ?? I purchased their strut cover and wheel cover and was quite satisfied. Their prices were comperable to other aviation related purchases that I have made (in other words they are ridiculously expensive). The workmanship was good and delivery was timely. A friend purchased the same items and the wheel cover was damaged in shipment. It looked like something with a sharp edge went through the box and the wheel cover. I think I might have just gone ahead and repaired the piece but he contacted Featherlight and they shipped him a completely new cover without asking him to return the old one. I thought that was a nice touch. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 13:00:29 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: Re: COZY: F-28 Bulkhead > Has anyone out there used a featherlight nose or any featherlight > products ?? Is thier work good ?? > Robert Mancuso 1635 W. I Los Banos CA, 93635 Cozy # 537 Chapter 4 I just bought the landing gear and nose cone. Both were fine and like Dick said, expensive. The gear you have to buy, but the nose cone is optional, but worth every penny. Placed on the F-0 bulkhead, it makes carving the foam from it to F-22 much easier. I highly recommend it. -eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Nat Vs Speed Queen (fwd) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 13:22:19 EDT Randy Stockberger; >On a semi-related topic. Does Nat really get a kick back from his >blessed vendors? Well, colloquially we can call it a "kick-back". Royalty or surcharge might be better terms. Yes, he does. My understanding is that he gets 7% of the selling price. Can't say that I find this distastful, really. Happens all the time (in different ways) in other industries as well. >...... If so, is this legal? Why wouldn't it be? He contracts with them to call them "Cozy Approved Suppliers" for 7% of the purchase price. That's between him and them. If they don't think it's worth being an "approved supplier", they can tell him to pound sand. I buy from people who are approved and not approved, based on quality, price, and delivery. >...... Does it relate to the increase >in prices that Brock, the canopy vendors and other suppliers have made? No, it shouldn't. He's had that deal with the approved vendors for a while. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 13:56:00 PDT From: Brian DeFord Subject: Re: COZY: Nat Vs Speed Queen (fwd) Text item: Randy Stockberger; >...... Does it relate to the increase >in prices that Brock, the canopy vendors and other suppliers have made? Well, as far as the canopy goes, Nat has turned his royalty payment (5%) into a discount for Mark-IV builders. Airplane Plastics recalculated their costs when he contacted them about the cost increase and they said they would give his builders a 10% discount. They also informed him that if he wanted his builders to have a bigger discount he could give them his 5% royalty as well. Nat chose to give us his royalty on this one. So, that's why we have a 15% discount now on the canopy. Brian DeFord, Cozy MK-IV #309 http://www.paloverde.com/~bdeford brian_deford@ccm.ch.intel.com Chandler, Arizona Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:59:57 -0400 From: Phillip.Johnson@Lockheed.on.ca (Phillip Johnson) Subject: COZY: Nat Vs Speed Queen (fwd) Randy Stockberger writes; > On a semi-related topic. Does Nat really get a kick back from his > blessed vendors? Marc Zeitlin replies: > Well, colloquially we can call it a "kick-back". Royalty or surcharge > might be better terms. Yes, he does. My understanding is that he gets > 7% of the selling price. Can't say that I find this distastful, really. > Happens all the time (in different ways) in other industries as well. A royalty would suggest that he provided the design and the vendor was simply building to print, and a surcharge would suggest that Nat was handling the process in some way. I think that neither apply. In government circles they would lock you up and throw away the key for taking a "kick back". It's called conflict of interest. In their situation it is illegal and it is imposed to protect the taxpayer against paying for something that is not necessarily the best value (define value as you choose). The question is, can Nat give unbiased recommendations if he is making money out of that recommendation? And likewise those vendors that are not prepared to pay Nat, because those costs must be passed on to the customer, are penalized because Nat will not put his seal of approval on those products. At the end of the day it is the builder that suffers. >...... If so, is this legal? Yes it is legal, but modern day commercial ethics suggests that this manner of doing business is unethical. Phillip Johnson From: Paul.Krasa-1@pp.ksc.nasa.gov (Krasa, Paul) Organization: Kennedy Space Center, FL Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:26:35 -0400 Subject: COZY: Nat's kick back Phillip Johnson wrote >The question is, can Nat give unbiased recommendations if he is making >money out of that recommendation? And likewise those vendors that are not >prepared to pay Nat, because those costs must be passed on to the >customer, are penalized because Nat will not put his seal of approval on those >products. At the end of the day it is the builder that suffers. >Yes it is legal, but modern day commercial ethics suggests that this manner >of doing business is unethical. Come on, the people who design plans built airplanes have to make money some how. At the end of the day it is only the uninformed builder that gets screwed, and for that matter from what I can tell it does not cost any more to buy the stuff from the catelog so who cares. There is nothing stopping you from buying materials from any source you'd like. How many people buy their foam from Wicks, or Spruce. The blue styrofoam blocks are floatation billets which can be purchased at most large marinas at a lower price. The original hot wire foam core airplanes were made from this material. The new foam is suppose to be more fire retardant, but in my opinion if a fire gets to the foam its already to late. Personally, I have found the two plans built designers I have met (Nat and Burt) to be flippant and arrogant. That has not stopped me from building an airplane that one of them designed. For the most part, I have found people involved in experimental aviation to be the nicest people on earth. Given all the stuff written about Nat vs Speed Queen in the last few days, its obvious nothing is going to get by this group. With that said, I'll say it again, LET'S GET BACK TO BUILDING AIRPLANES!!! :-| My humble nickels worth. Paul Krasa Long EZ 214LP !---*---! Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 13:37:02 EDT From: "Nick J Ugolini" Subject: COZY: ANOTHER CATALOG I found a terrific catalog from McMaster-Carr. 1-404-346-7000. It is free, but they will only ship it to your business address. This catalog has EVERYTHING in it. From springs, electrics, oil impregnated Teflon bearings, reamers, motors, to bellville washers. You name it. They even have braided stainless steel covered, Teflon hose by the foot with reusable fittings (can you say cheap home made fuel lines?) or pre-made assemblies. A motorized damper for you air system may be a bit much for your show plane :-) but air supplied respirators might be up your alley. I think this catalog would be a good addition to your library and its a great Christmas wish book. Southern Division, Naval Facilities Engineering Command P.O. Box 190010 N. Charleston, SC 29419-9010 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 14:33:02 -0400 From: kevin@ias.com (Kevin R. Walsh) Subject: COZY: Another Catalog A bit of further McMaster-Carr information: They will accept credit card orders. It will take approximately 2-3 months to get a catalog from these people, in my experience. It is worth the wait, though. The Phone # I have is : 1-908 329-6666 Fax: 1-908 329-3772 Address P.O. Box 440 New Brunswick, NJ 08903-0440 For the company I work for (in Mass.) 98% of orders form these people arrive the next day, even if we call as late as 6PM >From what I understand, the warehouse is gigantic, and they have a UPS terminal located in the warehouse. Kevin R. Walsh Kevin R. Walsh Mechanical Engineer Intelligent Automation Systems 149 Sidney Street Cambridge, MA 02139 TEL 617.354.3830 FAX 617.547.9727 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 14:28:37 EDT From: "Nick J Ugolini" Subject: COZY: AIRWARE AMERICA I called AIRWARE AMERICA and found them very helpful. They have all sorts of air systems depending on your use. The even have forced air system which hooks up to your air compressor (with appropriate filters). Neat. I was told if you fax them your MSDS sheet (you can ask for it when your purchase your paint or resins) they will contact the factory to help you select the best cartridge for your mask. Southern Division, Naval Facilities Engineering Command P.O. Box 190010 N. Charleston, SC 29419-9010 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:25:46 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Ken Brock Manufacturing As a warning to all to order everything early in the game as opposed to on an as needed basis. Just before OSH I put together an order for Ken Brock Manufacturing for the last of the parts that I must buy from him (sole supplier). I computed the costs based on a two year old catalog and brought the order to the Brock Booth. Marie Brock pulled out the new catalog and recomputed the costs. The order went up by 54%. Ken Brock walked into the booth then and I questioned the huge increase. His response was that his costs increased and that I wouldn't believe how all aviation costs were escalating. A few days ago I received a bill from Ken Brock for $33.75. When I called to question this they said that the order had been added up wrong. Even so, I complained again about the price increases. The woman who I was talking to said they haven't had a price increase in over a year ??????????????????????? You can all draw your own conclusions about this but I think one thing comes very clear. If you can't build the stuff yourself, buy now ---- don't wait till later. Dick Finn From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Ken Brock Manufacturing Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:15:32 MDT > As a warning to all to order everything early in the game as opposed to on an > as needed basis. > > Just before OSH I put together an order for Ken Brock Manufacturing for the > last of the parts that I must buy from him (sole supplier). I computed the > costs based on a two year old catalog and brought the order to the Brock > Booth. Marie Brock pulled out the new catalog and recomputed the costs. The > order went up by 54%. Yikes! A few months ago I was upset when I found that my Brock parts went up by 22% in a single increase. Has there been yet *another* increase? I think that gold futures traders are in the wrong business. They should be trading Ken Brock part price futures. I have the 95/96 catalog so I'm hoping for price protection at least until December. Maybe Brock would sell me a price increase protection insurance policy. :-) So much for 3% per year inflation. > Ken Brock walked into the booth then and I questioned the huge increase. His > response was that his costs increased and that I wouldn't believe how all > aviation costs were escalating. In the computer business, customers have come to expect twice the performance and 20% lower prices each year. If only the same were true for aviation. Lee Devlin Date: 21 Aug 96 18:45:19 EDT From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Click Bonds & Misc. >Paul Burkhardt wrote:< >James, ON a different note I recall talking to someone (big guy) at the booth at oshkosh, concerning those epoxy tabs which can be used to hold wiring harness' etc. they have the ability to hold a ty wrap and other items etc. Can you give me the name price etc. thanks.< Hi Paul, That little fellow with a beard was me. I believe you are referring to Click Bonds. Send me your address and I'll send you a catolog of there complete line of fasteners. We also have a sperical aileron bearing and fixture that can also be used in the cockpit and at the firewall ($40 each), and a 5-way fuel valve (Off/Left/Right/Both/Reserve) [$160]. We will also be soon coming out with our oleo nose strut that will be castering or have nose wheel steering (your choice), be able to lift a Cozy MK-IV or AeroCanard with 4 people, gas and baggage [$700+] off the ground, and use a Lamb size nose tire. Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:34:29 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: COZY: EZ10/EZ84 Our containers are in and we are now shipping the new resin replacement out to those who need it. The price for 16 lbs (2 gals) EZ10 resin with 7 lbs of EZ84 hardener is $130.00 plus shipping The current price for a gal kit from Aircraft Spruce is $83.95 per 1 gal kit. Hope this helps some of you. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:12:25 -0700 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: epoxy The following message was found while looking for unrelated information: hexcel corporation - a Delaware corporation USA has filed chapter 11... and it included this eM address : http://www.hunt.com/legal/1147.html The USA legal system is not clear to me (in South Africa) can someone please tell me if this is the epoxy manufacturer? and if so has some company taken the patents/manufacturing over? Does this affect Hexcel France as well ? Chris #219 cvh@ifrica.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: epoxy (fwd) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 10:01:17 EDT Chris van Hoof wrote: >The following message was found while looking for unrelated information: >hexcel corporation - a Delaware corporation USA has filed chapter 11... >and it included this eM address : http://www.hunt.com/legal/1147.html >The USA legal system is not clear to me (in South Africa) It's not completely clear to us here in the US either :-). >can someone please tell me if this is the epoxy manufacturer? Yep. >and if so has some company taken the patents/manufacturing over? Chapter 11 means that they will continue to operate, but are protected from creditors as they try to reorganize and pay off their debts. If they had declared Chapter 7, that would mean that they would go out of business. Chapter 11 is not good, but it shouldn't change the epoxy situation, at least for a while. Usually, companies emerge from Chapter 11 after a year or two and continue to operate. >Does this affect Hexcel France as well ? Don't know. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 11:45:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Crutfield Subject: COZY: Infinity updated pages I know that there are a few of you out there who are like me and are limited to text only browsing. When I visited the Infinity page awhile back, I left a message indicating that it would really help if links were included on the pictures so that we could download them for off-line viewing. They responded very quickly and today I downloaded the pictures. If you don't have the URL, it is: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Hope this helps some of you, ^Randy Stalled in Chapter 7/9 while starting the home brewery, not as productive as working on the Cozy, but testing the samples is a lot more fun, 8-) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 15:00:53 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: COZY: Custom Covers for Cozys I've been looking around for a nicely done cover for my Cozy 3 place. I've found a very nice cover made by Bruce's Custom Covers in Sunnyvale, CA. They are made from a custom manufactured silver antron nylon material that has a felt surface on the inside. He makes covers for Long EZEs. He is willing to fabricate Cozy covers, however, he hasn't been able to make a 3 place or 4 place Cozy cover because he hasn't been able to locate nearby airplanes (within about a 100 mile radius) to take some measurements for a pattern. If there are any 3 and 4 place Cozy builders in that area who would be willing to let Bruce take some measurements from your completed (or nearly so) airplanes please let me know. I'll put you in touch. Bob Misterka N342RM From: "Dalrymple, Mark J" Subject: COZY: CHAPTER 2 - SUPPLIER ALTERNATIVES Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 07:02:00 PDT Hi to all, the more business I do with our suppliers such as Brocks, Spruce and Wicks, the more I would like to know about alternative suppliers. A while back, I was at Chino Ca and had a visited AEROTECH AVIATION which is attached to the same building that World Famous "Flo's Cafe is attached too. I talked to the owner there and said that his prices are cheaper than SPRUCEs and that he could reference the parts you want via the spruce catalog. He also can receive your order through fax. He also says that if he does not have what you want in stock another associated store in San Diego would have it. His address is as follows: AEROTECH AVIATION 7000 MERRILL AVE CHINO, CA 91710 PH 909-597-6760 FAX 909-597-6340 His shop seems small but it might be worth your dollar spent. Also, I would like to hear some feedback if you place some orders from him. Another note, I heard that it's around December that Spruce raises their prices. Buyers beware. Mark Dalrymple Just trying too keep the airframe down to $13,000. Comments and Suggestions from others would be good!! From: "Dalrymple, Mark J" Subject: COZY: CHAPTER 2 : Regarding AEROTECH AVIATION @ CHINO Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 06:52:00 PDT Hi to all, I forgot to mention what AERO AVIATION stocks at their store. Their flyer says they stock the following: - Distributor of certified aircraft fasteners-nuts, bolts, rivets, screws, clamps and fittings. - Aircraft supplies-oil, filters, lubricants, cleaners, paints, ducting, safety wire, electrical supplies and batteries. Other comment from their flyer was: - Have some components or instruments to sell? We would be happy to display them in our consignment case! They dont stock composite items, but it wouldnt hurt to ask! The more requests for composite materials might encourage them to carry some of our stuff. Also I am looking into an alternative supplier for the canopy windshield, that is in Calif at Brackett field. I will let you know what I find. Best regards, Mark Dalrymple (in-short Mark from Orange) Date: 12 Sep 96 20:21:34 EDT From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Aircraft Hardware Hi to All, >Mark Dalrymple wrote:< >The more business I do with our suppliers such as Brocks, Spruce and Wicks, the more I would like to know about alternative suppliers.< AEROTECH AVIATION . . . prices are cheaper than SPRUCEs . . . can receive your order through fax. He also says that if he does not have what you want in stock another associated store in San Diego would have it.< We've been using AEROTECH Aviation for years, who just happens to be located 1/4 mile down the same street we are located on, on the field - and they really do have the best hardware prices we have found. The owners name is Richard Thompson who runs the Chino, CA office. His son, Pete, runs the San Diego (Gillespie Field - El Cajon, CA) office. They supply most of the aviation businesses, and car and boat racers in the area. They supply, also, aviation businesses around the world (some to Europa). His son's address is: AEROTECH Aviation 1860 Joe Crosson Drive El Cajon, CA 92020 Orders: (800) 448 - 4457 PH: (619) - 448 - 4485 FAX: (619) -448 - 6340 While we are talking hardware, thanks to Cliff Cady who turned us onto this product a few years ago, a company in St. Paul, Minn. makes really slick metal and plastic quick disconnect couplings and fittings for: biomedical instrumentation, fluid and gas systems, corrosive environments, cooling lines, pneumatic controls, to name a few. Now you can have a cannon plug / quick disconnect (if you will) of the pitot-static system to go along with your avionics cannon plug / quick disconnect to more easily remove your entire instrument panel and put it on the work bench. Genoa's phone number is: (800) 444-2367 or (612) 645-0020 for a free catalog. I don't think I'd mention that their products might show up in an aircraft, though. You know how it is, lawyers and all. Later (I just don't have the phone number at this writing), I'll talk about the aluminum aircraft bolts we use in non structural applications that are still 2/3 the strength of the steel bolts, but only 1/3 the weight. One might be able to save several puonds. INFO: The Stearman wing bolts are aluminum ! HTH. Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 09:58:00 PDT From: Brian DeFord Subject: Re: COZY: Micro Encoder Regarding Rocky Mountain Instruments - they're WEB site is www.rkymtn.com. They have all of their brochures online as well as pic's and prices. I've only heard good reports from them. Brian DeFord E-MAIL: brian_deford@ccm.ch.intel.com Cozy MK-IV #309 WEB SITE: http://www.paloverde.com/~bdeford Completed chapters 4-8, 10-12, 16-17 Partially completed chapters 9, 13 and 24 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:08:06 -0400 From: "William B." <74744.2301@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Customer Dissatisfactiojn Ok . . . . . . I'm really beginning to loose patience with some of these companies we have to deal with. First off, the entire month of August was lost because Brock shipped the wrong box of parts to me. Now A.S.S. East can't get an order for one item right (with two tries). On Sept. 5th I ordered 30 ft of Inconol 600 wire to hotwire the canard foam cores with. They brillantly shipped the wire in only a padded envelope and when it got here it looked like a bird's nest. I called to explain that I couldn't cut airfoil cores with a "serrated" hot wire saw. They reshipped the wire (in a box this time). For those of you keeping score that is now one month plus one week lost due to supply snafu's. Well, I got the wire today and it was wadded around one of those tiny wire spools. Same result as the first time. What the hell are these people doing?!? I'm so mad right now I could spit. There is nothing more frustrating than having a garage full a materials without the ability to progress because of the absense of one item. William E. Buckley (Cozy Mk IV, #437, Chap 10) 74744.2301@compuserve.com Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 11:28:34 -0700 From: Mark Morris Subject: Re: COZY: Customer Dissatisfactiojn William B. wrote: > > Ok . . . . . . I'm really beginning to loose patience with some of these > companies we have to deal with. First off, the entire month of August was > lost because Brock shipped the wrong box of parts to me. Now A.S.S. East > can't get an order for one item right .......... And I thought it was just me ... I had a similar experience with Aircraft Spruce West. I place my first materials order about 6 months ago ($2500 or so), and it took me almost THREE weeks to convince them to actually enter the order into their system for processing ("oh, she must have misplaced it","we've been very busy",etc.). Anyway, from now on it's Wicks for me. From: "Krasa, Paul" Subject: RE: COZY: Cozy Springs Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:44:37 -0400 If these are the same springs used on the Long EZ, you can get the spring from AS&S and cut them to the proper length. I bought screen door spring from my local hardware store and it was not strong enough. The spring I got from Spruce worked fine Paul Krasa Long EZ 214LP !---*---! >---------- >From: Rego Burger[SMTP:burgerr@telkom.co.za] >Sent: Monday, September 23, 1996 2:53 PM >To: Paul.Krasa-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov; Paul.Krasa-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov; >Paul.Krasa-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov >Subject: COZY: Cozy Springs > >Hi to all builders > >I find it difficult to get the springs I need for my Cozy here in S.A. >As I have a friend building one too in JHB - Chris van hoof, We then >need two sets between us. > >Can someone tell me who I can contact and simple say, I need the spring >kit for a Cozy Mk IV, then I hope to get them all at once. I'm talking >about the springs for the trim, rudders other controls etc. > >Please Help > >Rego Burger >P.E. >South Africa >Cozy MK IV # 139 >burgerr@telkom.co.za > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:33:42 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Screw ups on orders There have been a number of messages of late about the AS&S vs. Wicks. It seems that the upshort is almost universal advice to order from Wicks. Indeed, a large number of my orders go to Wicks too. I would have to say that I've never had any bad experieinces with AS&S though. On big orders I look seriously at AS&S. I haven't checked recently but for years their prices have been significantly cheaper. My approach is: 1. I generally place a big order with Wick's at Oshkosh. They offer a 10% discount for orders placed at the show. Perhaps it would be a good idea for those of you who can't make the show next year to forward the order to one of us who will be there. We can drop it off at the Booth. 2. I always write prominently that the order is to be shipped complete only on the order form. I think Wick's uses their shipping department as a profit center. I've ended up paying several dollars to have an envelope of screws shipped. If they are missing three items they ship them as they come in so you can really get nailed on charges. 3. For orders during the year I compare the prices. To repeat, AS&S is almost always cheaper. Dick Finn Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:53:38 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Cozy Springs Hi to all builders I find it difficult to get the springs I need for my Cozy here in S.A. As I have a friend building one too in JHB - Chris van hoof, We then need two sets between us. Can someone tell me who I can contact and simple say, I need the spring kit for a Cozy Mk IV, then I hope to get them all at once. I'm talking about the springs for the trim, rudders other controls etc. Please Help Rego Burger P.E. South Africa Cozy MK IV # 139 burgerr@telkom.co.za Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:53:47 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: Re: COZY: Phenolic vs Teflon as a bearing surface (fwd) Marc Z. wrote: >I used Delrin (tm), which is an Acetal copolymer. It's tougher than >Teflon (tm) and has a lower coefficient of friction and wear than the >phenolic. The expansion coefficient is about the same as the Teflon >(tm) (actually a bit lower, but not much) and I think it's cheaper than >Teflon (tm) although I got my 2" x 4" piece free from the scrap bin at >work. The epoxy sticks to it a lot better than it ever would to the >Teflon (tm) as well. > OK, now that Marc has piqued our interest, and I don't have any delrin in a scrap bin at work, anybody know where we can get some of the stuff? Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Phenolic vs Teflon as a bearing surface (fwd) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 13:09:45 EDT Jim Hocut wrote: >OK, now that Marc has piqued our interest, and I don't have any delrin >in a scrap bin at work, anybody know where we can get some of the >stuff? You should be able to pick up 1/4" Delrin (tm) at any plastic supply house - check in the yellow pages. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:14:12 -0400 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: Re: COZY: Phenolic vs Teflon as a bearing surface (chap 16) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------794B15FB59E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Hocut wrote: > > OK, now that Marc has piqued our interest, and I don't have any delrin > in a scrap bin at work, anybody know where we can get some of the > stuff? > check the yellow pages under plastics... i found a company (which seems to be national) called AIN Plastics. they have a catalog and i managed to get some scrap pieces of G-10 for my landing gear hardpoints and some acrylic drill bits from their local outlet for $30. they carry delrin, teflon, etc. btw: as marc mentioned, the chap 16 archives already covered this; send mail to: majordomo@hpwarhw.an.hp.com with get cozy_builders topics95.mim get cozy_builders topics/chap_16.txt in the body of the message to obtain copies. --------------794B15FB59E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename=".sigeaa" --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 72 bellanca 7gcbc 9! cz4 -> aerocanard --------------794B15FB59E2-- by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.0-6 #4800) id <01IA6FWAIJGY8XCPS7@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: COZY: Abrasives I remembered reading a msg a while back about a source for cheap sandpaper (and yes Marc, I have researched the archives). Cant find it. In sanding my varieze down to the original glass (I have found up to 7 layers of paint/filler/primer) I can validate the addage repainting is a LOT more work than just finishing a new construction. PLEASE use the best materials available and take your time so you won't have similar problem. As near as I can tell, the original filler was featherlite. Over the years (about 10) it has broken down an can easily be scraped off with a puddy knife when you sand off most of the overlaying material. I have since gone with sanding ALL the filler off (questionable material) roughing the glass with 36 grit, painting on pure epoxy, wiping the epoxy off with paper towels, and using micro as my filler. Works great. I have some West filler to try out. I will let yu'all know how it turn out. If the original poster of the message about the sand paper would please send me the phone number, I would be forever in your dust (oops, debt). Nick Ugolini unick@mail.charleston.net Varieze N89RS Cozy Mark IV #0264 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:20:29 -0500 From: mbeduhn@mail.snider.net (Mark Beduhn) Nick Ugolini wrote: I remembered reading a msg a while back about a source for cheap sandpaper (and yes Marc, I have researched the archives). Cant find it. Klingspor's sells a 10 pound box of assorted sandpaper for $19.95. I bought one a few years ago and I am still working on it. Phone # 1-800-228-000, Item #BB00010. They are often out of stock because of this item's popularity, but it is worth the wait. Be sure to ask for a catalog when you call. Mark Beduhn Cozy MK IV #494 Chap 19 Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 21:00:30 -0700 From: "Steven D. Sharp" Subject: Re: COZY: Abrasives Nick Ugolini wrote: > > >From July 23, 1996 By Bill Schertz & Stet Elliott Klingspor's Sanding Catalog P.O. Box 3737 Hickory, NC 28603-3737 1-800-228-0000 Steve Sharp cozyiii@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:37:43 -0700 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: Sandpaper/abrasives Hi to all, My 0.02c or "How I did it" Most sandpaper is transported from the manufacturer in large rolls and cut up into sheets, disks and bands by someone locally (or at least closer to you) where it also gets packed into retail size covers. This last business in the line usually has lots of "off-cuts". A little PR with the chaps on the floor and they throw what you need in a separate corner, They sell this waste (to them :)) to you for dirt cheap. Locally I bought a trailer full (thats the volume of 2 bathtubs) for the equivalent of $40.00 which included sanderbelts, disks and sheets up to 6ft long x 1'6", grit range from 24, 36(plenty), etc to real fine. I worked out the volume of sheet area is 6 times the recommended lot in the parts list, now it is "easy" to throw away when no longer sharp. In the yellow pages they were listed in the Abrasives section. On the phone they didn't want to deal with me, but being in the area at the time, I dropped in spoke some Cozy & Aviation and found a Microlight pilot among the staff, from then it was plane sailing.... Hope you guys find something similar near you. Happy building. chris #219 in my playbox with Cozy entering chapter 8 cvh@iafrica.com Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:11:39 -0400 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: COZY: Re: fresh air system This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31DF237C2F1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote: > as per marc nadine's post here and pat bradley's july 1995 central > states newsletter article, i am building a fresh air system. > pat mentions using 3/4" ID, plastic, agricultural quick-couplers in his > article; but, living in this non-farmland area, i am finding nothing but > blank stares and quiet phone receivers. <..snip..> the source is: colder products company 1001 westgate drive st paul, mn 55114 612.645.0091 (5404 fax) request their "quick couplings and fittings for plastic tubing" catalog. they had a card that i sent in with $3 and got a "sample" of the couplers i wanted (HFC 1012-12 and HFC 248-12). otherwize, a set of couplers is around $10 + shipping/tax. --------------31DF237C2F1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename=".sigeaa" --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 72 bellanca 7gcbc 9? cz4 -> aerocanard --------------31DF237C2F1C-- Date: 08 Oct 96 22:01:31 EDT From: "Edmond A. Richards" <103235.1336@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Suppliers Greetings to all, There has been a fair amount of discussion from time to time on this forum regarding the quality of various suppliers. I would just like to relate my experiences with a company called SUPERFLITE of Elk Grove, IL. As the name would indicate they are a supplier to the homebuilt aircraft marketplace. Beware! At this past Sunn Fun I shopped the major suppliers(Wicks, Spruce, Chief, etc.) as well as Superflite for the Whelen strobe/nav light package. The best price quoted $572.75 was from Suferflite so I ordered the part. The parts were not received until June 15th (after several phone calls) along with a bill to my credit card for $628.90 not the $572.75 price of the original sale. Also one of the wing tip units looked like a demo (not new). After a letter and phone calls they agreed to credit my account the difference and replace the one wing tip unit. In the process of replacing the light assembly they once again billed my card for the wing tip assembly in the amount of $223.00 supposedly to insure the return of the imperfect part. However when my charge account was credited, upon receiving the return, the credit amount was only $149.00. Its now the 8th of October and Superflite has once again agreed to credit my account for the over charge. Assuming that they do, this has still been a most aggravating experience and at this point I would have done better to make the purchase from one of the more reputable suppliers. Price is a relative thing. Ed Richards Cozy #88 Mounting the engine and cowlings Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:02:14 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Suppliers In a message dated 96-10-09 02:19:23 EDT, 103235.1336@compuserve.com (Edmond A. Richards) writes: << I would just like to relate my experiences with a company called SUPERFLITE of Elk Grove, IL. >> I've never purchased anything from Superflite but remember hearing some negative publicity about them three or four years ago. As best I can remember the issue was related to failure to deliver on orders. Specifically, they took months and many phone calls to supply a set of wheel pants. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM From: "Dalrymple, Mark J" Subject: COZY: FW: CHAPTER 2 - SUPPLIER ALTERNATIVES/HARDWARE Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 06:21:00 PDT Hi to all, What follows is from the pass and pertains to getting cherry pop rivets. Also Phone number in reference to DEERING ENGINEERING (in Long Beach California, on Cherry street - very close to LGB airport) is wrong. DEERING is expensive but they always have what you need in the nuts, bolts and Cherry Pop rivets category. The area code listed in one builder's note in wrong. The number is 310-595-1168. Regards, Mark Dalrymple ---------- From: Dalrymple, Mark J To: BUILDERS Subject: CHAPTER 2 - SUPPLIER ALTERNATIVES Date: Wednesday, September 11, 1996 7:08AM A while back, I was at Chino Ca and had a visited AEROTECH AVIATION which is attached to the same building that World Famous "Flo's Cafe is attached too. I talked to the owner there and said that his prices are cheaper than SPRUCEs and that he could reference the parts you want via the spruce catalog. He also can receive your order through fax. He also says that if he does not have what you want in stock another associated store in San Diego would have it. His address is as follows: AEROTECH AVIATION 7000 MERRILL AVE CHINO, CA 91710 PH 909-597-6760 FAX 909-597-6340 His shop seems small but it might be worth your dollar spent. Also, I would like to hear some feedback if you place some orders from him. From: "Dewey Davis" Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:54:41 -0400 Subject: COZY: Lynn Woofter address Several people asked about the address for Lynn Woofter Manufacturing for prop extensions. This is the latest information I have. Lynn Woofter Manufacturing 1951 NW 84th Terrace Pembroke Pines, FL 33024 (305) 436-9496 Dewey Davis From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Lynn Woofter address (fwd) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 16:22:19 EDT Dewey Davis writes: >Several people asked about the address for Lynn Woofter Manufacturing for prop >extensions. This is the latest information I have. > >Lynn Woofter Manufacturing >1951 NW 84th Terrace >Pembroke Pines, FL 33024 >(305) 436-9496 >From the latest Newsletter (note new area code and Name): Woofter-Saber Manufacturing (954) 436-9496 -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 08:37:00 PDT From: Brian DeFord Subject: COZY: Gougeon Bros Home Page With all the discussion lately about epoxy, the comment that Scaled Composites uses Gougeon Bros. Pro Set (tm) led me to look for them on the WEB. I located a home page at: http://www.cris.com/~Gougeon/ Have a look if interested... Brian DeFord E-MAIL: brian_deford@ccm.ch.intel.com Cozy MK-IV #309 WEB SITE: http://www.paloverde.com/~bdeford Completed through chapter 13 (except chapter 9) plus 16-17 Partially completed chapters 9, and 24 Subject: COZY: Testing samples Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:56:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Randy Smith" In the FWIW category... While surfing the net today (instead of working) I cam across the page for the diab group. They manufacture the Divinycell foams that we use. They state that they have a state of the art lab that can be used to test composite samples. (for a fee I'm sure) Ya'll might want to check them out. http://www.diabgroup.com/tech.html Also, I came across a company called Composite Materials, Inc. They are a distributor for many different types of core materials, Resin systems, fabrics. Their website is a little short on detailed information but they have an office near me. Anyone have any experience with this company? http://www.cmi-composites.com -Randy "Now I know why I didn't study materials engineering" Smith --* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -* Watch this space for COZY progress |Cozy MkIV| NCR General Purpose Computing Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |---( )---| Global Support Center Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648 ___o/o\o___ West Columbia, SC 29170 "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC Date: 29 Oct 96 20:35:39 EST From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: COZY: Instrument panel To Cut or Not! CH4 The Panel Planner software came from Interactive Solutions in Boise Idaho, Their phone number is 208 323-8724. It cost about $80 at Oshkosh. Rick Roberts Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 17:00:04 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: COZY: WeldTech?? Anyone know what came of Weldtech? I heard they may have gone out of business. They were not an "approved " suplier, but I heard from some of you they made great metal parts. TIA Eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:29:42 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: COZY: WeldTech?? Eric_Westland wrote: >Anyone know what came of Weldtech? I heard they may have gone out >of business. They were not an "approved " suplier, but I heard from >some of you they made great metal parts. Weldtech is still in business. Richard has had heart problems and is only working about 4 hours a day. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 phone/fax 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com NEW homepage address: http://www.binary.net/aerocad From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com (Garfield) Subject: Re: COZY: Aluminum/Composite (fwd) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 19:10:46 GMT Organization: Pilgrim House On Fri, 6 Dec 96 13:21:22 EST, "Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote: >I think what Garfield meant was to replace the Aluminum with some form = of >composite that isn't suceptible to moisture/corrosion. Then, you >wouldn't have any aluminum to corrode or to have galvanic action with. >Since fiberglass layups can have approximately the same mechanical >characteristics as Aluminum (stiffness, strength), this is not an >unreasonable line of inquiry. > >G-10 is a readily available glass composite material which comes in >varying thicknesses. It's either what PC boards are made of, or >something very close to it. For parts that need to have bushings or >bearings, the same ones that were used with the Aluminum could be used >with the G-10. Exactamundo, Marc; that's exactly what I meant. But Paul wasn't the only one to think I was suggesting combining Alum with G-board or Carbon. Kevin Walsh also alerted me privately about the galvanic carbon/alum issue, and since I had NEVER considered that, I think it a excellent 'serendipidous' confusion that brought out a point I was oblivious too. He pointed out that this is why you see alum hard points on carbon birds surrounded by a ply or two of glass. I dunno if this is common knowledge, but carbon-fiber 'stock' of plates, angles, rods, tubes, square rods, is becoming quite available. The stuff is cured under heat in a press!!, so is unbelievably strong, dense, and light. Aerospace Composite Products 14210 Doolittle Dr. San Leandro, CA 94577 510-352-2022 contact: George Sparr has a catalog of this stuff. They sell mostly to the RC market, so they don't require huge orders of stuff and prices are reasonable; they do have industrial clients, though, 'cause I have seen REALLY thick assemblies of carbon stuff there on visits. The owner worked on the B-2 project, way back when, and has had all kinds of cool project stuff in there from time to time.=20 I have no connection, BTW, just a curious client & onlooker. ACP also has a vendor that can CNC hot-wire foam cores, called Contour Foam (they do mostly architectural pieces) 510-744-9681, and I have been hankering to take some wing templates in and see if they (Contour =46oam) think they could work from them. Garfield Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:17:05 -0500 From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: COZY: NOZ-LIFT The electric NOZ-LIFT production has now caught up with with sales and I now have units "on the shelf" and ready to ship. With the NOZ-LIFT, the Cozy, Long EZ, Variez, E-Racer or any "nose dragger" can board passenger and with baggage and full fuel, lift the nose with the flip of the toggle switch for taxi. I have shipped 15 units and have been getting good feed-back from customers so far but I need criticism from all my customers so I can fix any problem that may exist and improve the design. My policy is full satisfaction or return the unit and you get a full refund. If anything breaks- I'll replace it at no charge. I am trying to hold the price at $750 plus shipping unless the sales volumn drops. call to order 615-373-8764 Steve Wright-1500 hr. EZ Pilot with a bad back-(I've lifted a heavy noze a few thousand times to many) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:18:33 -0500 From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: NOZ-LIFT Its appropriate that Steve wrote this the day I was finally going to sit down and write up my throughts on Installation. Message text written by INTERNET:SWrightFLY@aol.com >The electric NOZ-LIFT production has now caught up with with sales and I now have units "on the shelf" and ready to ship. With the NOZ-LIFT, the Cozy, much deleted... >nless the sales volumn drops. call to order 615-373-8764 Steve Wright-1500 hr. EZ Pilot with a bad back-(I've lifted a heavy noze a few thousand times to many) < The installation went pretty well on my King Kozy. The fit in between the NG-30s lends a whole new meaning to finger contorsions for bolt installation, but after some creative plier and assistant work it fit and worked pretty much as advertised. I had a couple of comments for Steve on how to improve to nose strut bracket (the source of my biggest problem) and I discovered a bad weld, which he has since corrected on all systems. Steve provided good support and the packaging of the whole system is very well done. The relays he supplies are massive (about a pound apiece, guess) but they're supposed to last forever. I may try some hexfets in paralell instead with a hard wire back up (one use). The system added about 8 pounds to my nose but it will lift the nose with me in it, with no gas. I'm reasonably impressed, and except for the nose strut bracket the nose lift installation was a brainless exercise. Rick Roberts From: Lee Devlin Subject: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:47:28 MST I've been toying with the idea of using the Rocky Mountain Instruments in my LongEZ to replace some of the gauges I have and thought I'd point out to the group that they have a really neat WWW page at: http://www.rkymtn.com/ The newest addition to the page is the complete set of manuals for the Micromonitor and Microencoder (Assembly, Operating, Installation, etc.) and they are really done well. All the manuals are in .pdf format and can be printed out with all graphics intact. You'll need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is downloadable for free and referenced on their web page. It would helpful but not essential to have a Postscript laser printer with duplex (but not essential) if you want to print everything out. After reading through the manuals, I am astonished at the quality of the instructions. I've built a lot of electronic kits over the years and have never seen anything approaching this level of professionalism. Lee Devlin | HP Greeley Division | Long EZ N36MX Piper Colt N4986Z | 700 71st Ave. | Cozy MK IV under const. 'Spirit of rec.aviation'| Greeley, CO 80634 | (Chapter 10) From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 08:38:26 CST Subject: Re: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments Hello Group, I have to agree with Lee on the Rocky Mountain Instruments. >>of the instructions. I've built a lot of electronic kits over the years >>and have never seen anything approaching this level of professionalism. I received a kit two years ago for a XMAS gift and by New Years eve I had it built and working. - YES, pass this along to the significant other -. While installing the unit in the panel, I BROKE the special reaining screw. I called Rocky Mountain and they replaced this retaining screw free with just a single question. How did I breakk it? (Anyway - It was only my fault). WOULD I BUY ANOTHER KIT FROM ROCKY MOUNTAIN - YES WOULD I BUY THE COMPLETE KIT FROM ROCKY MOUNTAIN - YES - BUT IT WAS ENJOYABLE BUILDING. MERRY CHRISTMAS, Ken Reiter Dallas , TX From: Sid & Mari Lloyd Subject: RE: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:22:39 -0600 I checked into their engine monitor and it looks like it monitors only one CHT and EGT. Is this correct or does it scan all four like most of the others do? ---------- From: Ken Reiter[SMTP:ken@quickturn.com] Sent: Monday, December 23, 1996 8:38 AM To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; leed@gr.hp.com Subject: Re: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments Hello Group, I have to agree with Lee on the Rocky Mountain Instruments. >>of the instructions. I've built a lot of electronic kits over the years >>and have never seen anything approaching this level of professionalism. I received a kit two years ago for a XMAS gift and by New Years eve I had it built and working. - YES, pass this along to the significant other -. While installing the unit in the panel, I BROKE the special reaining screw. I called Rocky Mountain and they replaced this retaining screw free with just a single question. How did I breakk it? (Anyway - It was only my fault). WOULD I BUY ANOTHER KIT FROM ROCKY MOUNTAIN - YES WOULD I BUY THE COMPLETE KIT FROM ROCKY MOUNTAIN - YES - BUT IT WAS ENJOYABLE BUILDING. MERRY CHRISTMAS, Ken Reiter Dallas , TX Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:50:26 -0500 From: Allegro816@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments "I checked into their engine monitor and it looks like it monitors only one CHT and EGT. Is this correct or does it scan all four like most of the others do?" The RMI unit does not 'scan', it has a rotary switch to view different cyl.s You can reach them at 307-864-9300...or you could E-mail me asking about the Allegro engine monitor that does all kinds of neat stuff! robin du bois Allegro816@aol.co From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 09:58:25 CST Subject: RE: COZY: Rocky Mountain Instruments Hello Group, In reply to Sid's question: >>I checked into their engine monitor and it looks like it >>monitors only one CHT and EGT. Is this correct or does >>it scan all four like most of the others do? Cost/Performance is the issue. I did analyze this issue and decided to go with the unit. The Engine Monitor only monitors one CHT and EGT at a time. However due to its design, it is easy to place a switch to select one of four/six combs of CHT/EGTs. Also, this would allow one to have additional probes placed to monitor inlet/outlet or where/what ever one would wish. I have been thinking of a way to automate the scan. For a few dollars one could make a circuit to cycle through the probes. If/when a temp went out of limits, the monitor would alarm and this alarm signal could also be used to stop the probe cycle circuit on the one that is out of limits. However, the Ken approach now is to build/fly then modify - in this order. Everyone Happy Holidays, Ken Reiter Dallas, TX Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:27:07 +0100 From: Michael Antares Subject: Re: COZY: Hot wire I heartily second buying from Wicks. I have ordered from them now for a year and a half and have had one screw-up which they corrected with a next day air shipment at their expense. Their shipments always arrive within a week to ten days and they're always packaged well (their shipping costs may be on the high side but at least the material arrives in good condition). My two cents... 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove CA 94951 707.664.1171 Cozy#413 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13. Chaps 16 & 24 mostly finished. Now on chap 19.