Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:39:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Raising the Canopy Last year at OSH i sat in Nat's Mark IV. While I fit ok, the canopy was still too low. My head didn't touch but it was close. Further, my feet were ahead of the rudder pedals. Nat suggested moving the pedals an inch forward. I did this and with the use of the adjustable pedals from Jeff Russell I'm in good shape. I'm now getting started on the canopy and would appreciate some thoughts on how to raise the height of the canopy. My options are: 1. Raise the whole thing uniformly by 1 1/2 inchs. This would mean filling at the firewall. I don't see that this would be a problem. 2. Keep the firewall as is and gradually increase the height to 1 1/2 inchs as I move forward in the form. I think this would leave a sharp break at the point where the canopy is installed. 3. Completely redesign the turtle deck and build a form of my own design. Obviously this would be a lot of work without a CAD system. There may be other options but these are the ones that occur to me. I favor number one. Has anyone else done anything of this nature, if so, how was it handled and what was the result. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:40:10 -0500 From: Fritzx2@aol.com Subject: Re: Raising the Canopy Dick Finn states: >I'm now getting started on the canopy and would appreciate some thoughts on how >to raise the height of the canopy While I am far away from building the canapy, I'm now ready to glass the outside of the fuse, I will also want to make some kind of modification to add more headroom in the front seat for myself. I'm 6' 1" tall. A MK IV builder that I just met last weekend mentioned that he talked to or heard ( I can't remember which) the supplyer of the canapy would be willing to modify the canopy. I would think that the probable use of a form to make the canopy would not lend itself to alterations without alot of work but since I'm not sure how he makes it, maybe it isn't alot of work. I guess it wouldn't hurt to place a quick call to let the supplier tell you. If you wouldn't mind, please forward any info or replies you get not addressed to the group. Thanks. John Fritz Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 00:23:16 -0500 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: Raising the Canopy In a message dated 96-02-06 18:42:04 EST, Dick Finn wrote: >I'm now getting started on the canopy and would appreciate some > thoughts on how to raise the height of the canopy. My options are: > The following is based on Long-EZ building experience: If you raise the height at the firewall area by 1.5" your cowling will probably not fit. This will require you to build a new upper cowl. Lots of work! If you keep the firewall the same but raise the front of the canopy you might not be able to get a fair curve into the cowling. I'd suggest you trial fit the canopy and raise the front as much as possible, but still keep a fair curve into the cowling. The easiest thing to do is just reduce the thickness of bottom seat foam. Do you know how much seat foam the prototype had? Related hint - I don't know how the Cozy plans are layed out, but the Long-EZ plans have you build the canopy and frame first, then add the cowling much later. Builder experience shows it's much better to jig the upper cowling first, centered around your engine. Use a dummy engine case with crank, or at a minimum, a cardboard tube at the crank centerline to approximate where the prop/spinner will be. After the cowl is jigged into place, jig your canopy to match. That way everything fairs well. I took this idea one better by shaping the whole upper fuselage at the same time from cowling to nose. You take on a major project by doing it this way, but at least everything fits and fairs well. Again, this is based on Long-EZ experience. Might not apply to the Cozy. Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 08:34:34 EST From: wlanza@wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com (Wayne Lanza) Subject: Re: Raising the Canopy Dick Finn asks for advice relating to raising the canopy. * I'm not sure but I believe that the AeroCanard canopy may afford better head room than the per-plans canopy. * The logistics of raising the canopy start at the spinner line and go forward from there... ALOT OF WORK !! If you decide to take this on make considerations for a larger firewall and engine cowling leading edge. This raised edge may only need be about an inch (or so..) higher than normal to allow for an extra 3 inches of head room at the pilot station. The form for the rear canopy "turtle deck" could be extended and the built-up foam around the lower edges of the "bubble" would have to be higher. One interesting consideration... if you were to raise the forward edge of the "bubble" and thereby have thicker urethane foam built up from the fuselage tub longerons to the lower edge of the Lexan, you might just be able to relieve a little more foam on the underside of the canopy. This would afford a little more shoulder room. Just a thought, hope it is of some value. Safe Flying, Wayne Lanza aka Composite Design Cozy MK3 N452WL Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:47:23 -0500 From: KSPREUER@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Raising the Canopy In a message dated 96-02-09 15:36:16 EST, you write: >Subj: Re[2]: Raising the Canopy >Date: 96-02-09 15:36:16 EST >From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com >To: KSPREUER@aol.com >Thanks for the input. Did you basically tilt the whole turtledeck/canopy up >or did you actually change the shape of the form. I plan to do the work this >weekend and would appreciate any details. > >Dick Finn I raised the front end of the turtle back 1.5" and left the firewall the same. I should note, however, that I did not concern myself with the fairing into the cowling since I will be making a custom cowling. I am using a standard transperancy. I raised the rear of it to match the turtle back. The turtle back was made per plans. I added a tappered shim of clark foam between the turtle back and the longerons. You need to redo the hard point for the rear canopy hinge and I believe the rear latch (possibly) later in the chapter. I left the front of the canopy at the same hight as plans. The shim area will get covered up when the fairing beween the strake and turtle back is done (ch 24?). There was ample trim on the transperancy so that the lower edge is trimmed per the plans. Sorry I don't have more time to give more detail but sounds like you are on a short schedule. By the way the area behind the transperancy but forward of the split between the fixed and movable portions of the canopy is an ideal place to ventilate the rear seat. I put in a NACA scoop on the centerline just like the ones shown just forward of the instrument panel. It may drip in the rain but I plan to put a sealed plug in the outlet for such times. Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:37:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Raising the Canopy Many thanks to everyone who sent me their suggestions for raising the canopy. I was able to glean a lot from all of the responses. In addition, as suggested, I contacted Vance Atkinson for his input. For everyone's benefit, the following summarizes my discussion with Vance. Vance agreed that there are two methods commonly used to raise the canopy. The first is to maintain the height at the firewall and tilt the canopy upward. The second choice is to raise the canopy the same height at the front and the back. Obviously there is a hibred of raising the canopy a little at the back and a lot in the front. This method seems to result in maximum complexity so we didn't even discuss it. The key is that, whichever method is used, you want to maintain a clean line from the nose, up over the canopy and all the way back through the turtledeck, to the cowling and ending at the tip of the spinner. After discussing both methods with Vance for about 15 minutes and taking into consideration the comments from the mailing list, my conclusions were that it would be easiest to raise the canopy 1.5" in the front and 1.5" in the back. This means I would have to add a little plywood on the firewall and modify the shape of the cowling back to the spinner. On the positive side, I will have a little more room under the cowling when I'm done. By tilting the canopy or canopy/turtledeck I would have a sharp break at the point where the tilt occurs. I felt this would be harder to fair out. Vance commented that he has seen many planes with this sharp break at various fly ins. Anyway, right or wrong, thats what I'm doing. This weekend I built most of the form for the turtle back. All that remains is to put the strips between the formers. I hope this little interchange proves valuable to the rest of you. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:01:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Re: Support, Aerocad A few thoughts! Firstly, a hearty welcome to Jeff Russell! On another related and possibly difficult note, what ever happened to Nat Puffer joining the list? I heard he had some interest at OSH last Summer. I also heard he had some concerns that the ideas being traded could lead some people to deviate from the plans. I glassed the inside of my turtleback this weekend and am passing on the following: 1. The two 24"x48" sheets of Clark foam are not enough. The Mark IV turtleback is 46" x a max. of 57". Each 6" x 48" strip has to be added to. As you move to the narrow end the add on become less. Bottom line, buy three sheets. 2. You need .016 aluminum or shim stock to build the form. This is not in the parts list. Make sure you order it. 3. This may be obvious to many of you but it wasn't to me. In order to conform the foam to the compound curve you need to taper the forward side of each end of the 6" wide strips while leaving the center at 6". At about the sixth or seventh piece I came up with the following sequence. Lay the strip in the form and place a weight orver the center to hold it steady. Overlap the foam onto the previous piece at the ends. Mark the overlap with a pencil. Take the foam out of the form and trim the overlap with a utility knife. Place the foam back in the form, weight the center and use coarse sandpaper to fit it against the previous piece. Once the foam is fitted, mark the wooden slats for the aluminum support strips. Take the foam out and install the aluminum strips. Replace the foam and continue with the next piece. 4. To mark the match line for the glass in the turtleback form, clamp a straight edge across the diagonal at the top of the form. Use a level to mark the foam directly under the straight edge every six or so inchs. Play connect the dots to get your match line. 5. The plans tell you to peel ply where the rib and drip trough go. You are not told to mark the turtleback for these until the next step. At least put a few marks in to give you an idea where to put the peel ply before you glass. You can do the final(accurate) placement later. The above advice is guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for it! Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Support, Aerocad Author: marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com at INTERNET Date: 2/23/96 2:56 PM On a semi related note, I'd like to mention that Jeff Russell of AeroCad is now on this mailing list, with the email address: aerocad@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:19:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Some thoughts on the turtledeck As I finish some steps I often learn something new. While this may be old hat to many of you, I thought I'd pass on a few thoughts I came up with on glassing the outside of the turtledeck. 1. I used a utility knife to score (1/4" deep) the leading edge of the foam on the turtledeck (one inch back). I then used the same knife to cut the foam out. If you hold the knife correctly it will cut exactly one inch deep. You can just lift the strip of foam right out. I cleaned the area up by holding the utility knife perpendicular to the glass and scraping any foam off of the inner skin. 2. There are three areas where you need to sand 1/16" deep depressions of varying widths. I masked these areas with tape and lightly sanded the depressions. If you work slowly and carefully you end up with a professional looking job. 3. I had popped the foam out of the form rather then using a hack saw blade to cut out the five minute dabs. It was just too difficult to work with the blade. While I wouldn't recommend popping the epoxied foam loose, it can be easily patched with thick micro. The best solution is to just use tiny dabs of epoxy--I used too much! 4. To lay the UNI in, you need a reference line running diagonally from opposite corners. I suspended a plumb bob from the ceiling over opposite corners of the turtledeck. This gave me a sight line. By holding a pencil at arms length, I was able to sight in the two plumb lines and move the pencil right or left to get it exactly in line. I made marks every three or four inchs. After making the marks, I stood on the table and visually sighted the marks and they were indeed a straight line. The actual line, when viewed from the side or front, has a curve in it due to the compound curve. Hope the above is of some value to at least one person. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 10:22:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Window Locations I could probably work this out on my own but hopefully someone out there has already gone through this and can provide a quick answer. I spent an hour or two last night trying to locate the cutouts for the windows on the turtledeck. The measurements that are provided in the plans seem sufficient to get me close but not enough to accurately mark the cutouts. The big issue seems to be locating the lower right corner of the rear window (I'm starting on the right side of the the turtledeck). Questions: 1. The windows rest on a baseline that slants upward from front to rear. What is the location from the bottom of the turtledeck of the intersection of the baseline with the front and rear of the turtledeck. 2. Ditto for the top line. 3. What is the location on top and bottom line for the fron and rear corner of each window. Any help would be appreciated. If no one knows, I will probably figure these out on my own and will publish them. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:08:11 -0700 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Window Locations Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com wrote: > > I could probably work this out on my own but hopefully someone out > there has already gone through this and can provide a quick answer. > > I spent an hour or two last night trying to locate the cutouts for the > windows on the turtledeck. The measurements that are provided in the > plans seem sufficient to get me close but not enough to accurately > mark the cutouts. The big issue seems to be locating the lower right > corner of the rear window (I'm starting on the right side of the the > turtledeck). Dick, I made my own windows and posted the story - I think it is in the archives. I never could get the plans measurements to work out, so I just extened the canopy lines. Which ever way you go, do not cut anything out until you have your windows in your hands. That way you can just trace them. ALSO, when I talked with Airplane Plastics last fall, they had been supplying undersize windows for the Mark IV. They told me they were going to correct this, but if you have had your windows for a while, better check them to see they are right. Again, all of this misery can be avoided if you just trace the windoes and then cut holes about 3/4" smaller. Hope this helps, eric From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Molding your Own Rear Windows (fwd) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 10:43:24 EDT People: I received this message from Jim White (an old mailing list member who dropped out so that he could actually get some work done on his airplane :-) ). I thought you might be interested. [Don't reply to me about this - I'm NOT on chapter 18 yet] !! Hi Marc, Nice hearing from you. Eric Westland dropped by this weekend to bring me his jig table for making the strakes. I still have to finish my canopy before I get to the strakes, but when I'm done with it anyone near Portland is welcome to have it next. I'm making progress on my bird since I dropped off the on-line cozy group. I miss everyone, but I was spending too much time reading and writing on the internet. You can see what I mean from the following: I molded my second rear window today. The first one worked out fine and I the second one came out even better. It's quite a bit more work, but all the turtleback windows ended up costing me $40 instead of $150. They fit perfectly, but I believe they may be slightly more wavey than the ones from Airplane Plastics. You can minimize any waviness by applying bondo and sanding the mold extra smooth depending on how retentive you are. 1.) I covered the turtleback with plastic tape for release and then made a mold over it using cheese cloth and plaster of paris. Messy, but it works. Mold shold be at least 1/4" thick (6 layers of cheese cloth minimum) 1/2" wouldn't hurt. 2.) After plaster dries, drill two small holes at opposite diagonal corners through the turtleback and through the plaster for future reference. I choose where the lines intersect for the window cut out. 3.) Remove the mold and cut out the window opening in the turtle back. Do a nice neat job finishing the inside edges. 4.)Take the portion of the turtleback you cut out along with a piece of aluminum sheet to lay the plexiglass on while it is in the oven, and the plaster mold. 5.) Preheat the oven to 275F. Lay your plexiglass on the aluminum sheet. (Plexiglass is 1/8" light smoke Acrylite GP, CYRO Industries, Mt. Arlington, NJ 07856.) 6.) Place the plexiglass in the oven for about 5 minutes. It will curl up slightly and then lay back down. Remove it just before it lays completely flat again. 7.) Put on a pair of oven mittens and remove the plexiglass and aluminum from the oven. Gently slide the plexiglass onto the mold and then place the foam portion you removed from the window cut out over the plexiglass to hold in place while it cools. You will have a glass/foam, plexiglass, plaster mold sandwich. 8.) After it cools, use the foam cutout and mark around it with a magic marker. Use the holes in the plaster mold as a guide for positioning it. 9.) Mark it a again 1/2" wider than the foam cutout. Trim it on this line and voila', you've got a window. 10.) Trim the inside of the turtleback and remove the 1" strip of fiberglass and foam where the window will go. 11.) Lay the plexiglass in the opening and mark it with a fine felt tip marker. Use this as a final guide for placing the acylic tape. 12.) Rough up the edges and place weights on the backside of the window to hold it in place while the flox cures. 13.) Install the 1" strip and bid tape after the window has cured in place. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:52:00 -0400 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Cozy Mark IV Window Placement --38wKrf4Un4A9io5ctHOvAqME2gBdetSY Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A month or so ago I asked for help on the measurements for window placement. I received a number of good suggestions but no actual measurements. I finished the installation about three or four weeks ago but have been forgetting to forward the actual dimensions. In any case, here's how I placed my windows. 1. Measure up along the front curve of the turtleback. Place a mark at 2 3/8" and 16 1/16" 2. Measure up along the back curve of the turtleback. Place a mark at 5 1/4" and 12 5/8". 3. Run a piece of masking tape between the two upper marks and the two lower marks. This just makes it easier to draw lines. 4. Remark the above dimensions and clamp a flexible straightedge between the bottom front and bottom rear marks using spring clamps (or whatever). I have a 6' aluminum ruler that worked real well. Draw a line between the two points. 5. Do the same thing for the top marks. These marks outline the top and bottom of the windows. 6. Hook your tape to the leading edge of the turtleback at the lower mark. Measure back and place marks at 5 3/16", 18 1/4", 24 13/16" and 38 7/16". 7. Move to the top mark and measure back 5 3/16", 24 15/16", 31 1/4" and 39 1/8". Run a piece of masking tape between the marks. 8. Using a straightedge connect the matching top and bottom marks. This will give you the basic outline of the windows -- you will still need to check accuracy by laying the windows over the outline to make sure that they are about 3/4" larger then the marked outline. If things still look good, radius the corners of the outline and recheck to make sure that the windows will fit properly. The checking and rechecking is a necessary step as I understand that Aircraft Plastics has sold two different sized windows. Hope this is of value to some of you. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DICK.FINN@FNB.SPRINT.COM Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 20:29:52 -0400 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: COZY: Cleco Fasterners Sizes I just started receiving parts for the window installation. Our manual mentions using Cleco Fasterners to hold the windows in place, but I have not found any mention of the size to use. What size have the builders that have gotten this far been using. The catalogs have sized ranging from 3/32 to 1/4". Please pass it along. Marc N425CZ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:07:13 -0400 From: CozyBldr@aol.com Subject: COZY: Turtleback before Strakes? I have a couple of questions for anyones who has already finished their strakes and turtleback. I have my fuselage in my one car garage and would like to put the turtleback on prior to moving the plane to the hangar. Is there any reason why the turtleback can't, or shouldn't, be installed before the strakes? Can the center spar be installed easily with the firewall and turtleback in place? Thanks for any advice you may have. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV #200 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 21:00:08 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: Re: COZY: Turtleback before Strakes? That's the way I did mine (Turtleback first). I however postponed putting in the upper firewall until it was time to permanently install the spar and would suggest you do the same - there will be times when building the turtleback/canopy that you will want to get inside and if the upper firewall is on, you can't get in. -eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Turtleback before Strakes? (fwd) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 8:23:28 EDT Eric Westland writes: >That's the way I did mine (Turtleback first). Glad to hear it. After I finish the wings and the control systems over the summer, I was hoping to do the turtleback and canopy in the basement (still don't have a garage to work in). Since I need to get out of the basement through a 32" wide door, I can't permanently attach the turtledeck. I plan on embedding four vertical pins (like the rear canard alignment pins) in the longerons for turtledeck positioning before glassing in place. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 00:06:42 -0400 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: COZY: The Cost is going up! I had a bit of a surprise today when I called Airplane Plastics Co. to order my Canopy and windows. Three months ago when I called for a price I was quoted $330 for the Canopy and $150 for the windows. When I called today I was told the cost has gone up a little. The Canopy was now $632 and $288 for windows. I don't mind telling you I was just all little tongue tied. Our budget will eventually get over the shock. I just wanted to warn everyone else what lay's ahead. Those of you who have already purchased your canopy, congratulations, those of you who haven't, start saving those pennies. For those going to OSH, the forum schedule has been announced and is available thought their Fax back system. (908) 885- 6711. Franklin Engines will have a forum Sunday the 4th, 1 to 2:15 pm. Should be interesting. The Cozy forum will be held Friday the 2nd, 1 to 2:15 pm. Marc Parmelee N425CZ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:38:18 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! >I had a bit of a surprise today when I called Airplane Plastics Marc Parmelee wrote: >Co. to order my Canopy and windows. Three months ago when I called >for a price I was quoted $330 for the Canopy and $150 for the windows. >When I called today I was told the cost has gone up a little. The >Canopy was now $632 and $288 for windows. As I said in the past. I can sell the same canopies from Airplane plastics for $480.00 to you guys because I have purchased so many in the past. Over 20 so far. They are drop shipped from them to you. Let me know if I can help We should also have our new batch of EZ-10 and EZ-84 in by next week 55 gals of each. I will be willing to off can in 1 gal cans an sell some to those who do not want to pay the $85.00 per gal kit price the new distributors have on it. I don't know what the landed price will be until we get it, but I will keep you all posted on what it will sell from us. It should be around $65.00 range. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:05:22 -0400 From: RonKidd@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Am I Mistaken? I never thought that PolyCarbonate and Plexiglass were the same animal. Plexiglass has always been relatively cheap and Lexan (polycarb) was always very expensive. Ron Date: 26 Jun 96 22:25:38 EDT From: "Edmond A. Richards" <103235.1336@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Just as a point of accuracy to Marc's comments. PC ( Polycarbonate ) is not plexiglas, plexiglas is acrylic. I believe that the canopies are plexiglas which can be formed easily by heating. Also I believe that Fox and APC are the same company. For what it's worth. Ed Richards Cozy Mark IV #088 Thru chapter 21 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:09:42 -0400 From: Wschertz@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Ron Kidd Wrote: Am I Mistaken? I never thought that PolyCarbonate and Plexiglass were the same animal. Plexiglass has always been relatively cheap and Lexan (polycarb) was always very expensive. Ron You are not mistaken, Plexiglass is polymethylmethacrylate, and is NOT the same as Lexan, which is polycarbonate. Bill Schertz Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:23:04 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > Jeff still sells them for the old price - we'll see how long his > supplier (Jeff, you said Fox the first time and APC the second time > - which is it?) keeps the prices down. The $480.00 is the new price from APC to AeroCad. Foxlite is the same as Airplane Plastics Co. Foxlite is what is on our bill. I think APC is their old name. The old price was $350.00 to you and $286.00 if you got 5 at a time. So we saw a $200.00 up in price. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: 27 Jun 1996 10:33:35 -0700 From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: COZY: Canopy Material Costs People, I just got of the phone with a local acrylic supplier. The material cost of a clear 4'x 8' sheet (qty 1) various thickness: 1/8" $47.36 3/16" $71.36 3/8" $157.76 Judd Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:09:06 -0400 From: Phillip.Johnson@Lockheed.on.ca (Phillip Johnson) Subject: Re: COZY: Turtleback before Strakes? (fwd) Marc Z writes: > I plan on embedding four vertical pins (like the rear canard > alignment pins) in the longerons for turtledeck positioning before > glassing in place. Just use cleco's into the longeron. Mine has been held on using four per side for the past year. Phillip Johnson Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:38:29 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Material Costs Judd Stewart wrote: >People, > >I just got of the phone with a local acrylic supplier. >The material cost of a clear 4'x 8' sheet (qty 1) various > thickness: > >1/8" $47.36 >3/16" $71.36 >3/8" $157.76 Is it cell cast acrylic??? and who is the manufacture??? AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 14:00:04 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: COZY: Windows > The Canopy was now $632 and $288 for windows. I don't mind telling you > I was just all little tongue tied. It has been a while since I described how (maybe someone can resurect it in the archives and re-post it), but I made my own side windows from plastic I received from Airplane Plastics. They worked out fine and sine I used my turtleback for the mold, they fit the first time. At the time, I figured I "saved" about $130. The plastic cost me about $30, so it might now cost $60, although if it is true they can now only get one canopy out of a sheet, they may be anxious to sell off the "extra". -eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 23:46:50 EDT Ed Richards wrote: >Just as a point of accuracy to Marc's comments. PC ( Polycarbonate ) >is not plexiglas, plexiglas is acrylic. I believe that the canopies >are plexiglas which can be formed easily by heating. Also I believe >that Fox and APC are the same company. For what it's worth. Boy, do I owe everyone an apology for the past few messages. Both William Buckley and Ed Richards are absolutely correct with their corrections. Mea Culpa - I must have had my brain in neutral. PC (polycarbonate) is the generic term, Lexan is G.E.'s tradename. Acrylic is the generic term, Plexiglas is R&H's tradename. Thanks for keeping me honest, guys. So, at least we know that we can buy canopies through Jeff Russell, and make our own windows per Eric Westland. I'll shut up now :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: 28 Jun 1996 09:36:43 -0700 From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: COZY: Re: COZY- Canopy Material C Jeff Russell wrote: >Is it cell cast acrylic??? >and who is the manufacture??? ---------------------------------------------------------- The material that I quoted was extruded except the 3/8". The mfg. is Plexiglas or Acrolite. The following prices are for cell cast Lucite. 51' x 100" sheets 1/8" $52.42 3/16" $79.33 4' x 8' sheet 3/8" $157.76 The above prices are single piece price.There is not a big difference in cost between cell and extruded. judd_stewart@cpqm.saic.com From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com (Garfield) Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:32:23 GMT On Thu, 27 Jun 96 23:46:50 EDT, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: >So, at least we know that we can buy canopies through Jeff Russell, and >make our own windows per Eric Westland. > Say, I just remembered sumpin. The only notes I have on someone heating/molding their own windows was a post Marc forwarded to the group from Jim White titled "Molding your Own Rear Windows" (that's verbatim). Ain't bein picky, just want to make sure I didn't miss some *other* article on the same subject by Eric. I save most of his posts cause they are usually full of practical stuff. If you know of any other articles on this subject, please let me know. manyTIA Garfield (Cozy4 #499) .... don't ya just love this list!! Great stuff. From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com (Garfield) Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:51:55 GMT On Wed, 26 Jun 96 15:25:20 EDT, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: >Garfield wrote (with respect to Canopy prices): > >>Not really an explanation so much as a prognosis. Sounds to me like >>they are about to exit the business. >> >>Can anyone suggest an alternative supplier...one whose more reasonable >>pricing we can encourage by giving them our business instead of these >>bloodsuckers at APC. > >Given my past comments about Brock and pricing, this may sound strange >coming from me, but I'm not sure we can (or at least should) blame >Airplane Plastics for the price increases. > >Given that HP does a lot of injection molding of polycarbonates (guess >what canopies [plexiglas (tm)] are made of?) and I design(ed) many PC >parts, I get to keep track of >plastics prices. PC prices have gone through the roof lately (past year >or two) and availability is low (big conspiracy among the manufacturers, >we think :-) ). So, APC may be having a hard time getting LARGE sheets >of PC at anything resembling reasonable prices (especially in low volumes I know, the poor horse is past dead maybe, but just had to report a call I made to my local supplier (Commercial Plastics-not a "Tap Plastics"- these guys sell to industry) here in Santa Clara. They say that their prices for plexi & pc especially have gone up 25-50% over the last TWO YEARS, but when I told him about an unnamed manufacturer having a recent giant increase, he said they had seen nothing that big in the last 6 mos. that would account for a huge increase. Maybe the problem is regional? And they have 4X8, 5X8, & 6X8 plexi available (and in colors, of course) I asked him for some pricing for 1/8 smoke and his prices were in line with what Judd Stewart reported recently: to wit, $50 for 4X8 sheet of plexi-smoke, $92 for same in lexan (one-zee's pricing). They said they have a bunch of Fabrication documents, so I'm going over at lunch to get some. Film at 11. BTW, since lexan is usually far superior to acrylic, if I was to try some of my own window moldings, why wouldn't I want to use the lexan instead of the plexi? Marc or anyone with knowledge of the materials, is lexan any heavier? Isn't it much more scratch, craze, and fracture resistant than plexi? TIA Garfield Date: 28 Jun 96 22:28:59 EDT From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! (fwd) My experience with Lexan (poly carbonate) is that it doesn't hold up as well in sunlight as acrylic. It tends to craze and lose it's clarity. The canopies on fighters as polycarbonate, but they are usually layered. >Ref a lot of info written by Marc and others about Plastic Canopies. Rick Roberts From: George Graham Subject: COZY: making windows Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:00:54 GMT Organization: AirSep Corporation Here is an article I wrote for our local EAA chapter on my windows. Making windows and canopies. The decision to purchase a factory made plastic part, or to try making your own, boils down to the complexity of its shape. If the desired part is flat or has a simple curve (such that you can bend a sheet of aluminum for the form) then the chances are real good that you can make it. However, if the part is a large compound curve (like a bubble canopy) then the best route will be to buy one from someone who already has the forms, ovens and skills required, if at all possible. I was worried about the lack of headroom offered by the bubble canopy available for my E-Racer, which appeared to bend your neck in. Since we are more interested in cruising than racing, I redesigned the canopy with simple curves by using a fiberglass roof and a more squared off shape. We have traded the visibility and low drag, for comfort, and were able to create our own (which hasn't flown yet 6/96). Once you decide to build one, buy a .030" sheet of clear polycarbonate from a plastic supplier (locally Great Lakes Plastics). You can bend it in simple curves by hand and cut it with sissors to trial fit, hold it place with duct tape. When you get the shape and size you want, you will have a pattern for cutting the aluminum form and plexiglass to size. There are two clear plastic materials available, acrylic (plexiglass) is harder and more likely to crack, but is fuel and scratch resistant, and polycarbonate (Lexan), the softer, which is better suited for storm doors etc. Great Lakes Plastic will cut any size rectangle you desire up to 4' X 8'. They only charge you for the size you want at about one-half the cost of mail order (just walk-in). Thickness will depend on your application. I made our first windshield from 1/8", then went to 1/4" for more ridgity. Since you made an accurate template, you can trace its shape onto the flat plexiglass protective paper, and cut it out with a saber saw. A sharp wood type blade cuts great. Support the material on both sides of the cut, and it won't crack or melt, which can add stress lines to the plastic. I used two flush interior doors layed flat on saw horses, then saber sawed the plastic keeping the blade in a gap between them. I made my cuts about 1/8" oversize, then finish trimmed the parts by hand sanding after heat forming. Making the form is probably the hardest part. Hardware store type sheet of thin (.032 ") aluminum mounted to a wooden frame so that the plastic will balance on the highest elevation, then gravity will pull the softened material into final shape. Fasten the aluminum to the frame so that it can expand and contract without distortion eg. small springs about the perimeter to hold the shape. If you make your form actual size, you can trial fit it in place. The plastic must be heated evenly so as not to warp and distort. For this you'll need an oven. We made ours from a sheet of rigid foil faced building insulation tacked over a wooden frame, then duct taped the seams. The temperatures your plastic will see are in the 200 to 300 F. range, so the wood should not ignite, but the duct tape will soften. An electric heater with jumpers to defeat the thermostat will provide a gentle rise to the desired heat. I monitored the temp by poking a meat thermometer through the oven wall, but also left the top of our oven removable so as to visually check on the plastic. The temps were contolled by plugging and unplugging the heater. Cover the aluminum form with felt fabric (wool is best but not available, we used the synthetic from JoAnn Fabrics which worked good). Lay the bare plastic over the felt and turn on the heat ( Yes, do have a fire extinguisher on hand ). Each forming took about one half hour. When the plastic had sagged over the form, we turned off the heat and let it cool gradually for about the same time with the oven closed. Our 1/4" thick two piece windshield and two 1/8" thick side windows cost about $50 total to create, we have our headroom, distortion free visibility, and learned a great new skill. George Graham 874-3277 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Canopy Materials Date: Sat, 29 Jun 96 0:31:33 EDT Garfield wrote: >BTW, since lexan is usually far superior to acrylic, if I was to try >some of my own window moldings, why wouldn't I want to use the lexan >instead of the plexi? Marc or anyone with knowledge of the materials, >is lexan any heavier? Isn't it much more scratch, craze, and fracture >resistant than plexi? Given my track record with material identification over the past few days, maybe I should just shut up :-), but here goes nothing: Polycarbonate (Lexan), while having the advantage of being bulletproof when thick enough, scratches VERY easily. As Ron Kidd said, it's also much more expensive than acrylic (Plexiglas). PC and Acrylic have about the same density. The cracking and fracture resistance is not substantially different in our application, and as Rick Roberts said, it's not as resistant to yellowing in UV as acrylic is, either. I really would NOT recommend PC as a canopy material. Garfield, thanks for the vote of confidence in my materials knowledge, against all recent evidence :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:00:59 -0400 From: Lenpilot@aol.com Subject: Fwd: COZY: The Cost is going up! In a message dated 96-06-29 19:58:31 EDT, Len pilot writes: << Marcnadine >> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! Date: 96-06-29 19:58:31 EDT From: Len pilot To: Marcnadine In a message dated 96-06-26 00:09:15 EDT, Marc Parmelee wrote: > >I had a bit of a surprise today when I called Airplane Plastics Co. to order >my Canopy and windows. Three months ago when I called for a price I was >quoted $330 for the Canopy and $150 for the windows. When I called today I >was told the cost has gone up a little. The Canopy was now $632 and $288 for >windows. I don't mind telling you I was just all little tongue tied. > > Much has been written in the past few days about this subject. With the cost of the raw plexiglass around a hundred dollars, and the finished piece about 530 more, I would like to think that this would create an opportunity for someone in this type of business. If there is someone who knows anyone who can do a quality job of molding the canopy at a fair price (about 300-350) I for one would be happy to sign up. I think there would possibly be others also willing to buy an equal product at a fair price. I don't think that market factors alone are driving up the cost of these parts. I believe that the cozy ( being the lowest priced high performance 4 place) has gained a great deal of popularity in the homebuilt market. there are only a few "authorized" suppliers. Those suppliers are fully aware that in most cases they are the only game in town. I think that with our volume of builders on this forum, maybe we can make it profitable for others to compete. Anyone know someone who can shape plexiglass? Leonard Farneth Cozy 522 Chapter 5 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:14:49 -0400 From: Lenpilot@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: The Cost is going up! In a message dated 96-06-29 20:04:38 EDT, I write: >I think that with our volume of builders on this forum, maybe we can make it >profitable for others to compete. Anyone know someone who can shape >plexiglass? > > PS. I may not have covered all my bases before hitting the send button on my last posting. My one question, are there any optical distortions when bending plexiglass? if not then the previous posting applies. if so, disregard my last posting. Leonard Farneth lenpilot@aol.com cozy 522 Chapter 5 Date: Tue, 02 Jul 96 18:16:00 PDT From: Brian DeFord Subject: COZY: MK-IV Canopies - A message from Nat Puffer Nat Puffer has requested that I (Brian DeFord, MKIV #309) post this message to the Mark IV Internet group based on a telephone conversation he had today with Jeff Rogers of Airplane Plastics: Telecon: Nat Puffer, Co-Z Dev. with Jeff Rogers, Airplane Plastics 1) Why has the cost of Mark IV canopies increased so much? 2) Why can Aerocad buy and resell canopies cheaper than builders can buy directly from Airplane Plastics? Answers: 1) About a year ago the quality of commercial grade plastic got so bad it was no longer feasable to sort through an entire shipment looking for good enough sheets to make canopies from. So Airplane Plastics switched to aicraft grade plastic sheets which were 3 times as expensive as commercial grade. They lost tens of thousands of dollars because of this and either had to raise prices or go out of business. Since they were much less expensive than competitors of comparable quality, they decided to raise prices. 2) Aerocad purchased 3 canopies so far this year and Airplane Plastics was honoring a lower price quoted earlier before the increase. Jeff Rogers has never offered or quoted a discounted price to Aerocad based upon a quantity order. As a matter of fact the Mark IV is a proprietary design of Co-Z Dev. and Co-Z Dev. has paid for the tooling, so effective this date (July 2, 1996) Airplane Plastics will offer Cozy Mark IV builders a 15% discount on published prices for Cozy Mark IV canopies. No one else can buy Mark IV canopies at this discount. Nat Puffer Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 08:46:37 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: COZY: MK-IV Canopies - A message from Jeff, read at your own risk >Nat Puffer has requested that I (Brian DeFord, MKIV #309) post >this message to the Mark IV Internet group based on a telephone >conversation he had today with Jeff Rogers of Airplane Plastics: >2) Why can Aerocad buy and resell canopies cheaper than builders can >buy directly from Airplane Plastics? > >Answers: > >2) Aerocad purchased 3 canopies so far this year and Airplane >Plastics was honoring a lower price quoted earlier (before the increase). >Jeff Rogers has never offered or quoted a discounted price to Aerocad >based upon a quantity order. As a matter of fact the Mark IV is a >proprietary design of Co-Z Dev. and Co-Z Dev. has paid for the >tooling, so effective this date (July 2, 1996) Airplane Plastics >will offer Cozy Mark IV builders a 15% discount on published prices for >Cozy Mark IV canopies. No one else can buy Mark IV canopies at >this discount. Answers 2: Only rear windows need a mold for drape molding. This is more BS from Nat. These canopies require no tooling because they are free blown to dimensions. The 3 canopies that we ordered were after the price increase. We were told we would get this discount because of quantities we ordered in the past. $632.00 less 15% is still $538.50 if my math is right. $480.00 is still cheeper??? I will call Jeff and find out what's up, if anything will change in the future. Are we trying to stop people from purchasing the same part for a cheeper price??? Makes no (cents)to me??? You tell me. How about the Franklin engine. Don't you think buying power can make a differance. What if you start purchasing them cheeper than what Nat paid. better be careful. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 09:10:30 -0400 From: Phillip.Johnson@Lockheed.on.ca (Phillip Johnson) Subject: Re: COZY: MK-IV Canopies - A message from Jeff Jeff Russell Writes > Only rear windows need a mold for drape molding. This is more BS > from Nat. These canopies require no tooling because they are free > blown to dimensions. The 3 canopies that we ordered were after the > price increase. We were told we would get this discount because of > quantities we ordered in the past. $632.00 less 15% is still > $538.50 if my math is right. $480.00 is still cheaper??? I will > call Jeff and find out what's up, if anything will change in the > future. I support Jeff on this statement. I wanted a larger canopy for my cozy MK IV, Airplane plastics were able to meet my requirements without any additional cost nor did they have to make a mold. So where does Nat get the idea that he paid for tooling for the canopy. The side windows may be a different story but my guess is that the tooling costs for such a benign curve was minor. Phillip Johnson Date: 3 Jul 1996 08:47:17 -0700 From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: COZY: Canopy Tooling Their is tooling associated with the canopy but it rather simple. I have been talking with a vendor about blowing my canopy and the initial budget price for the tooling will be around $150-200. judd_stewart@cpqm.saic.com 619.552.5581 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 96 00:00:07 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: COZY: Canopy Strut I found the canopy lift strut at our local NAPA auto parts store. Their price is $21.99 for the 30 or 40 pound strut and it is the exact make and model called out for in the plans even though it comes in a NAPA package. My particular store also carried an assortment of ball studs, but not the exact ones in the plans so I had to do a little modifying. No matter where you get it, it will have an "A" suffix now that they have switched to plastic ends - they seem plenty strong to me and the tech rep described to me a bunch of specs to confirm that in my peanut-size brain. These are now standard issue on any strut with less than 100 pounds lifting capacity. I found the 40 pound strut was too much. It made opening the canopy hard and I was always afraid to let go of it while opening it because it would shake hard when it got to the end of it's travel. I switched to the 30 pound strut and am much happier with it. The NAPA part numbers are : 8195563 for the 30# 8195587 for the 40# -eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 09:24:24 -0400 From: "Larry Schuler" Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Tooling Judd, Maybe others would be willing to share the cost of tooling. Who is the vendor and can they make "adjustments" for height and width at reasonable cost? Airplane Plastics would charge me ~$150 one time set up. (Sounds like a "tooling" charge doesn't it?) If I remember the article correctly in either Sport Aviation or Kitplanes about the Airplane Plastics Co. the "tooling" is just a sheet of plywood cut to match the approximate outside frame dimentions of the canopy; the plywood form with plexiglas on top is clamped to a stock vaccume chamber that has sufficient depth; the entire thing is then put in an oven and a vaccume pulled (all controlled of course) to the point that the resulting inverted bubble is the approximate canopy height. The canopy isn't "Blown" it's pulled by vaccume. Could be wrong of course, but seems to me the trick to having good optics would be the initial moisture content of the plexiglas along with proper temp/vac control (whatever that is). Personally I can't afford the cost of obtaining the experience, or I might be inclined to try it myself since I have a vac pump and will be building a good sized oven for post cure anyway. Larry Schuler MKIV-#500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: Canopy Tooling Author: "Judd Stewart" at INTERNET Date: 7/3/96 11:58 AM Their is tooling associated with the canopy but it rather simple. I have been talking with a vendor about blowing my canopy and the initial budget price for the tooling will be around $150-200. judd_stewart@cpqm.saic.com 619.552.5581 Date: 02 Sep 96 21:49:39 EDT From: "Edmond A. Richards" <103235.1336@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Chpt 18 Engine Mount Reinforcements Hi Everyone, Just a word of caution to those of you who have yet to tackle chapter 18 and dont want to have the same special "opportunity" that I am now faced with. I failed to remove enough of the so called "cosmetic pieces" from the upper firewall before applying the 5 ply engine mount reinforcement layup over it. This, I thought, was as shown in Fig 29 & 30. WORNG! I am not sure of the purpose of the small remaining triangle and foam wedge that is called for; but its very confusing and needs to be much smaller than the cosmetic filler piece. If you look at the photos at the end of Chapter 23 you can clearly see where Nat has cut the firewall to match the shape of the turtleback exactly with no triangle, no wedge. Because of this I now have to remove a big chunk to the 5 ply engine mount reinforcing layup to match the contour of the upper engine cowling and re-glass the area to make a patch. I am concerned about the strength in this area and as a result will probably wind up glassing over almost the entire area. I suppose the lesson is to read ahead. Ed Richards Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:16:49 -0500 From: mbeduhn@mail.snider.net (Mark Beduhn) Subject: COZY: NAPA part # for gas spring I called Service Plus Distributors the other day to order the gas spring and mounting hardware for the canopy lift/stop mechanism (chap 18). They informed me that I could order the parts at the local NAPA dealer. The following are the NAPA part numbers referenced with the part numbers shown in the plans. I also included the price that I paid: SPD-5150-40 gas spring - NAPA part # 819-5587 $21.99 SPD-1005 ball stud - NAPA part # 735-1591 $3.29/pair SPD-1010 Bracket - NAPA part # 735-1592 $3.29/pair After installing the assembly, I decided to lower the bracket (mounted to the co-pilot's headrest) from 8.5" shown on the plans to 5.5". That gives a little less downward pressure when the canopy is closed, and doesn't open it quite as much (easier to reach). Mark Beduhn Cozy MK IV 494 (chap 18 nearly complete). From: "Krasa, Paul" Subject: RE: COZY:Plastic tape for windows Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:39:03 -0400 >Paul Stowitts writes: > >I have been looking for the "plastic tape with acrylic adhesive" as Nat >calls >out for to protect the windows during installation but all I'm getting >from >sales people are blank stares. Anyone know of a product name and/or a >source of such tape? I don't know about a plastic tape. I used SprayLat (sp?) painted on with a soft paint brush. Three or four coats makes a rubbery coating which is easy to peal off and protects the canopy from scratches. Paul Krasa Long Ez 214LP!---*---! > > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:08:11 -0400 From: PoStow@aol.com Subject: COZY:Plastic tape for windows I have been looking for the "plastic tape with acrylic adhesive" as Nat calls out for to protect the windows during installation but all I'm getting from sales people are blank stares. Anyone know of a product name and/or a source of such tape? Thanks. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV #200 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 96 10:00:07 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: Re: COZY:Plastic tape for windows PoStow@aol.com,Internet writes: I have been looking for the "plastic tape with acrylic adhesive" as Nat calls out for to protect the windows during installation but all I'm getting from sales people are blank stares. Anyone know of a product name and/or a source of such tape? Thanks. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV #200 I just purchased plastic tape, 2" wide. I started out with the 3M stuff which ran up a bill fast, then switched to some cheap tape. Both worked equally as well, but in the end, I went to colored electrical tape, changing colors with each layer. At first I was concerned about the adhesive staying on the acrylic when I removed the tape months later, so I stuck a bunch of samples on a scrap of acrylic to monitor how the tape was holding up, but even if it does stick, a cleaner named "Goof Off" does a great job of cleaning off any adhesive - of course, try it on a piece of scrap first, but it worked fine for me. Eric Still Sanding -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:26:08 -0400 From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY:Plastic tape for windows In a message dated 96-09-27 12:14:05 EDT, PoStow@aol.com writes: << I have been looking for the "plastic tape with acrylic adhesive" as Nat calls out for to protect the windows during installation but all I'm getting from sales people are blank stares. Anyone know of a product name and/or a source of such tape? >> I used a 3M product that has a glue simialr to the stuff on Post It Notes. In fact, I use this to tape fiberglass cloth prior to cutting to proevent it from unraveling. It peels off very easily. You should be able to find the tape at any stationary store. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:02:56 -0400 From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: Elect fuel gages Greetings builders. Just picked up my fuel gage sending unit. It is out of a Subaru Legacy vehicle. It is totally submersible. It will mount to the interior baffle in the strake, route the wires out the fuel vent. There will be no penetration of any wall necessary, and it reduces risk of most common cause of flight failure (fuel exhaustion by bozo). In addition to providing an analogue value for fuel qty, it also has an output for low fuel warning light. -al Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:54:28 -0400 From: MKansky@aol.com Subject: COZY: cozy:canopy & windows I am curious as to what other builders are choosing for the canapy. Are you planning to use the tinted or clear plastic. I saw the dark tint on the velocity and it looks sharp but what about flying on cloudy days? Is there a down side? Marty Kansky N321CZ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 16:11:41 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: cozy:canopy & windows Marty Kansky asks: "I am curious as to what other builders are choosing for the canapy. Are you planning to use the tinted or clear plastic. I saw the dark tint on the velocity and it looks sharp but what about flying on cloudy days? Is there a down side?" I used the smoke tint on my 3 place. It's not too dark. I don't know of any downside. In bright sunshine, I think you will appreciate the slight reduction in transmission it offers. As you said, it looks sharp (both from the outside and the inside!). Bob Misterka N342RM by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #10979) id <01IAR5MH0OME0007W7@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:16:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:18:03 -0700 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: cozy:canopy & windows Marty Kansky asks: "I am curious as to what other builders are choosing for the canapy. Are you planning to use the tinted or clear plastic. I saw the dark tint on the velocity and it looks sharp but what about flying on cloudy days? Is there a down side?" As with so many things in life, almost everything has a downside. I do a fair amount of night flying, so I chose clear. There is no getting around the fact that a tinted canopy will reduce the light coming through. At night, I want as much light to come through as possible. This, of course, has a downside in the daytime. If I knew I would only be flying daytime, VFR, I would have definitely chosen tinted. Meanwhile, I may have to install a built-in sunscreen dispenser. As for cloudy days, I don't think it's much of an issue. There is still plenty of light available for the human eye under all but tornado-producing clouds. No comparison to night-flying. Besides, who wants to fly in a tornado? hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers: pilot, aircraft mechanic, saddle maker, high energy physics R+D handyman) _____________________________________________________________________ Do your part: Help stamp out the mindless, indiscriminate use of impersonal, cutesy "rubber-stamp" E-mail signatures. _____________________________________________________________________ Opinions are strictly mine, and are usually not those of my employer. From: "Chuck Wolcott" Subject: Re: COZY: cozy:canopy & windows Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:23:16 -0700 When I checked into this several years ago...Airplane Plastics indicated the darkest tint "is _not_ approved" for night flight, if any one thinks to check. Probably not smart to try it! The medium smoke tint is "acceptable" but not recommended. I think technically the FAA only likes clear or the light green tint for night operations. I have used the medium smoke now for 2 years, and am happy with it. Night flight is acceptable to me. I don't do it often, but have the capability. The darkest tint looks ...'really snarky" ( I guess that's the term everybody likes)...but you may not want to limit your options here unless you don't do any night flying by choice. Chuck Wolcott chuckw@qnet.com http://www.av.qnet.com/~chuckw ---------- > From: MKansky@aol.com > To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com > Subject: COZY: cozy:canopy & windows > Date: Thursday, October 17, 1996 12:54 PM > > I am curious as to what other builders are choosing for the canapy. Are you > planning to use the tinted or clear plastic. I saw the dark tint on the > velocity and it looks sharp but what about flying on cloudy days? Is there a > down side? > > Marty Kansky > N321CZ Date: 18 Oct 96 01:47:58 EDT From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Tinted Canopies Hi Marty, >I am curious as to what other builders are choosing for the canapy. Are you planning to use the tinted or clear plastic. I saw the dark tint on the velocity and it looks sharp but what about flying on cloudy days? Is there a down side?< Tinted is fine, but if it is too dark, and the FAA inspector or DAR is sharp, they will not sign off your pride and joy for night flight. The other posts are very good / germane. There are many flavors of 'tinted'. The canopy mfg.'s will be able to guide / recommend what they can / have done. HTH. Infinity's Forever, JD Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/infinity_aerospace Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:51:51 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Strake Layup Top Skins. Hello fellow builders, The plans call for an extra layer of UND at a 45 deg. angle from the fuselage to the first rib area on the strakes. The reason given is in case someone kneels on it while climbing into and out of the craft. Q. Do I assume then that it only goes on the Left strake? Q. Do we put it on both sides for symmetry? Rego Burger P.E. S.A. Cozy Mk IV #139 ( fuel sumps made , ready to bond them soon ) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 03:41:24 -0400 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Strake Layup Top Skins. In a message dated 96-10-21 05:00:53 EDT, Rego writes: > The plans call for an extra layer of UND at a 45 deg. angle from the > fuselage to the first rib area on the strakes. The reason given is in > case someone kneels on it while climbing into and out of the craft. > > Q. Do I assume then that it only goes on the Left strake? Long-EZ plans call for the extra ply of UND on the left strake only. I heard that Mike Melvill suggests an extra ply of BID in the same area for extra strength. I looked at his EZ a couple of years ago and noticed numerous delamination repairs in this area - drilled holes in the skin so epoxy could be injected. From this it appears the extra ply of BID is probably a good idea. I added the extra ply of BID on mine. Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:08:29 -0800 From: marcna Organization: ratdog Subject: COZY: Canopy lock I am finishing the canopy now and I will be using a different method than the standard door in the side of the fuselage to latch and unlatch the canopy. At OSH this year I came across a Cozy with a key-lock in the canopy that latches the canopy to the longeron. Being that a picture is worth a thousand words I have posted two pictures (one inside and one outside) of this setup on my Website for your review. I have spoken to a few people that complained about the air and rain the original design lets in. This design may be just the trick. I don't remember the builder of this aircraft, but is anyone else does, please inform us. To see the pictures: http://www.concentric.net/~marcna/ourpage2.html Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:57:45 -0500 From: Tom Teek Subject: COZY: Spraylat A friend just purchased a partly built Q2 with 12 years of Spraylat on the canopy. I don't remember the best way to remove it. Any help out there? Thanks Tom LE N58AT Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:08:31 -0500 From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Spraylat In a message dated 12/23/96 1:07:28 PM, tom58@digital.net (Tom Teek) wrote: >A friend just purchased a partly built Q2 with 12 years of Spraylat on >the canopy. I don't remember the best way to remove it. Any help out >there? > Thanks > Tom LE N58AT I _THINK_ I read in an old Central States newsletter that a product called Goof-Off worked well. I have used it to remove tape gum on my windows and it did not harm the plexiglass at all, don't know if it works on Spraylat. -eric Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:01:05 -0500 From: Phillip.Johnson@kan.lmcda.lmco.com (Phillip Johnson) Subject: COZY: Spraylat Tom writes: > A friend just purchased a partly built Q2 with 12 years of Spraylat > on the canopy. I don't remember the best way to remove it. Any > help out there? I have used Methyl Hydrate, which is basically alcohol, with no adverse effects. Suggest your friend tries a test piece somewhere just in case the alcohol he uses is different to mine. Phillip Johnson Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:55:42 -0500 From: Wschertz@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Spraylat Previous exchange: Tom writes: >> A friend just purchased a partly built Q2 with 12 years of Spraylat >> on the canopy. I don't remember the best way to remove it. Any >> help out there? >I have used Methyl Hydrate, which is basically alcohol, with no >adverse effects. Suggest your friend tries a test piece somewhere just >in case the alcohol he uses is different to mine. >Phillip Johnson Bear Phillip's admonition to TEST if you use alcohol, I seem to remember that Methyl Alcohol will cause 'crazing' on PMMA (poly-methyl-methacrylate) [commonly called Acrylic]. Bill Schertz