Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:51:09 -0600 From: Scott Mandel Subject: Chapter 8 Shoulder Support Just thought I'd pass it along, Because of a mistake I made back in chapter 6 I had to let the inside layup on the shoulder support cure completely before mounting it. So I decided to mount the nutplate assembly before I put ther shoulder support on the seat back. Here's what I did. 1. Build your nutplate, aluminum, riveted, thing-a-ma-bob (Is that spelled correctly? :-) ). 2. Sand the mating surfaces for good bond. 3. Drill through the wood. 4. Insert your screw through the wood and screw the nutplate on the screw. 5. Flip the whole thing over (nutplates on top). 6. Flox between mating surfaces, and use the screws to pull the nutplates down tight. 7. Let the whole thing cure and remove the screws. My screws had a little epoxy left on them so I dumped them in MEK over night and they came out clean. 8. Put some duct tape on the bottoms of the nutplates and drip candle wax into the screw holes. Remove the duct tape. Mount the shoulder support. 9. Do the 12 ply layup then the 2 ply overall. The holes are visible through 2427 epoxy. Carefully drill them out insure you don't go down to the threads. The wax keeps the epoxy out of the threads. This is really easier than it sounds. _________________ ______________________ / Scott L. Mandel \ /Email: mandel@esy.com \ \_________________/_________________________\______________________/ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:26:18 -0600 From: Scott Mandel Subject: Chap 8 Seat Belt Bolts New Questions: 1. Since the bolts get covered with flox after installation, should they be notched like the blind screws in the firewall? 2. When do these get covered with flox? Was it in chapter 8 and I missed it? From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Chap 8 Seat Belt Bolts (fwd) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 17:35:37 EST Scott Mandel asks: >1. Since the bolts get covered with flox after installation, should >they be notched like the blind screws in the firewall? No need. The firewall screws get flats because you will be putting torque on them after they're installed. The seatbelt bolts are never torqued again, since the nut is already on them, and there's no need to take off the angle bracket. As an aside, Phillip Johnson suggested (when he visited) that the firewall screws are VERY susceptible to rotation when installing the rudder pulley bracket nuts, due to the high torque required. I'm planning to use two standard nuts (the second as a jam nut) with locktite instead. This way, there will not be much torque on the screw, and it will be less likely to rotate. >2. When do these get covered with flox? Right after they're installed, if I remember correctly. >............ Was it in chapter 8 and I >missed it? I think so. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:35:33 -0600 From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: CH shoulder harness attach points Since a lot of you out there in Cozy land are ahead of me and probably have figured this out regarding the shoulder harness attach points. How do you attach them at the new spacing from Nat, w/o getting in the way of the head rests? : : _: : |o:|_________________: ^Attach point ^ Headrest Pardon the ascii art. It seems as though the seat belt triangle will be over lapping the corner of the headrest, causing problems with the installation and swiveling at the AN4 bolt. Any ideas? Just another reason my blind faith is starting to wear thin. Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Phoenix, AZ | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ Current Status: Ch 8 o o From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: CH shoulder harness attach points Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 20:15:11 MST You can check the archives. There has been a significant amount of discussion on this subject. > Pardon the ascii art. It seems as though the seat belt triangle will be > over lapping the corner of the headrest, causing problems with the > installation and swiveling at the AN4 bolt. Any ideas? Just another reason > my blind faith is starting to wear thin. I communicated with Burt Rutan about this change since the seatbelt arrangement is essentially the same on the LongEZ. In all the Varieze/LongEZ accidents he's investigated (and that includes *all* of them) there has never been a case of person slipping through the seatbelts. (There have been cases of structural failure of the shoulder harness attach points.) I feel that this change is a somewhat questionable safety enhancement because it necessarily compromises the structural integrity passenger's headrest which affords some roll-over protection. That is, if you mount the attach points any closer than what is originally called out in the plans, you must notch out the headrests. I also talked with Nat about it and asked if the 'H' strap was included in the European vendor's tests and he did not believe that it was. He was in the process of looking for his 'H' straps when I talked with him. The 'H' strap prevents the spreading of the shoulder straps and offers sufficient protection from the threat of slipping out of the shoulder harness. I also called the seatbelt manufacturer and they don't have a maximum specification for the attach point mounting arrangement but told me that the 'H' strap is included to prevent the harness from spreading and should not be left off for the sake of comfort. Lee Devlin Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 21:32:55 -0500 From: Fritzx2@aol.com Subject: Re: CH shoulder harness attach points Tim Sullivan asked about the shoulder harness attach point spacing: > How do you attach them at the new spacing from Nat, w/o getting in the way of the head >rests? You might not have to change the spacing if the harness that you use has a strap across the the chest from the left shoulder harness to the right harness. After all, the reason Nat moved the points closer together is to prevent the shoulder straps from spreading apart during high decelerations thereby allowing the shoulders to arch backwards allowing them to pass through the harness. Not something you would want to happen. But, if a strap is looped horizontally from the left verticle shoulder harness to the right verticle shoulder harness, as is the case for the recommended harness set that I purchased from Wicks, then I don't see how that would happen. Anyone agree, disagree? I do believe that Nat recommended hacking a slot out of the bottom of the headrest to provide the necessary clearance for the harness plate. John Fritz fritzx2@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:52:16 -0600 From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Re: CH shoulder harness attach points John Fritz wrote: >I do believe that Nat recommended hacking a slot out of the bottom of the >headrest to provide the necessary clearance for the harness plate. I'll hack away. The mounts are in and they do interfere so I'll just break out the router and glass over the exposed foam. It's a quick fix. Thanks Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Phoenix, AZ | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ Current Status: Ch 8 o o Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 12:25:51 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: Ch 7/8 - Step? I'm running out of excuses for not finishing chapter 7, I may be forced to glass the fuselage exterior this weekend if I can't come up with any more delaying tactics. Anyway, is everyone using the step on the left side of the fuselage as called for in the plans. I don't remember seeing it on many (any?) planes I looked at at OSH last year, but then again my memory may deceive me. Is the strake strong enough for entry/exit (with a piece of carpet laid on it for good measure) if I decide not to put the step in? Thanks, Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 12:58:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Crutfield Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? Jim, I,m at the same point, and am seriously considering not installing the step. Doesn't seem to be too much of a backward hop to elevate ones posterior up to the strake, and I'm only 5"6". Maybe someone that is flying will repsond as to the utility of the step. Randy Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:04:28 -0700 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? I did not put in the Brock step, instead I put in a retractable step that works just fine. I'll try to describe it. Basically, I took a two foot or so piece of 3/4" aluminum round stock and wrapped it in saran wrap. I then wrapped it in a bunch of BID scraps (with epoxy) and let it cure. After freeing the metal, I cut a slot along the side of the glass piece so I could thread a bolt into the aluminum and slide it in and out. I drilled a hole in the fuselage side so the step could stick out and floxed/glassed the whole thing to the forward side of the instrument panel along the floor. When retracted, it is flush with the fuselage side. This was not my idea, so I can't take credit for it. It is plenty strong, but is located a little more forward than the plans step. You will want to avoid hopping up on the strakes unless you beef it up to do so - it dents easily. Hope this helps. Eric Jim Hocut wrote: > > I'm running out of excuses for not finishing chapter 7, I may be forced to > glass the fuselage exterior this weekend if I can't come up with any more > delaying tactics. Anyway, is everyone using the step on the left side of > the fuselage as called for in the plans. I don't remember seeing it on many > (any?) planes I looked at at OSH last year, but then again my memory may > deceive me. Is the strake strong enough for entry/exit (with a piece of > carpet laid on it for good measure) if I decide not to put the step in? > > Thanks, > > Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 19:29:10 -0400 From: RonKidd@aol.com Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? I use it all the time. I am well over 6 feet tall and would hate to not have the step. It prevents scratching of the strakes. Ron Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:34:50 -0400 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? In place of the plans built step I installed a "vance " side step. Its basically a steel tube its 5/8 . it mounts inside an alminium tube, about 18" as I remember. slip fit and then some. the aluminium tube is glassed to the instrument panel just at the thigh support level and in front (toward nose). the alu. tube has a slot cut into in large enough for an an3 bolt. The an3 bolt is tapped into the steel tube and basically slides in and out of the aluminium tube using the slot to hold the bolt in place( and the steel tube to which it is attached) when retracted it is flush with the side of the fuselage. attach a ball in place of the bolt head . There is an additional slot which enables you to turn the bolt/handle down about 90 deg. to lock it in place during flying time.: 0) Paul Burkhardt I just read the other post and see that other builders have made similar steps. As far as needing the step I think it is necessary as It is quite a "leap" to the cockpit when the wheels are on. Carl Denk of the Cosy Classic fame sugestd this and reccommended the steel tube and he bent one of his aluminium ones. so far I have had no problem with the steel one. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? (fwd) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:36:00 EDT Eric Westland wrote: >I did not put in the Brock step, instead I put in a retractable step >that works just fine. I'll try to describe it. Todd Morgan had almost exactly this arrangement in his prizewinner - it was an aluminum rod in an aluminum (or steel) tube - it's a beauty. There were some planes at OSH with the step - they looked fine. I've been vacillating between the step and the retractible rod (useful as a lifting point and pushing point, too). The only issue I have with the rod is that it's just too far forward for a midget like me (5' 6"). I'm going to try to design one that retracts into the fuselage just forward of the seat belt attach point and under the thigh rest. The problem with that is it's inaccessible, so I need to cook up some sort of remote retract and extension mechanism - maybe a cable push-pull gizmo. Given that the Brock supplied part doesn't match the curvature of my fuselage well, I've got some extra incentive to make the rod work. If I ever come up with something, I'll post it. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 20:41:56 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: Re[2]: Ch 7/8 - Step? The retract step sounds like a great idea, I think I've received enough ideas to make it work, thanks. I'll add one thought... I listened to John Roncz's forum at OSH last year on drag reduction, one of his big points was to eliminate any air leakage (canopy seals, etc.). Along these lines, with the retract step, it will be a good idea to figure out a way to prevent any air from getting in/out through the step and step hole. I figure a good starting point will be to make a fiberglass cover on the end of the step that's flush with the fuse side when it's retracted. Beyond that, maybe even enclose the whole assembly in a one or two ply fiberglass "box". Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com From: "Dewey Davis" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:11:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? On Apr 20, 12:25, Jim Hocut wrote: > Subject: Ch 7/8 - Step? > I don't remember seeing it on many > (any?) planes I looked at at OSH last year, but then again my memory may > deceive me. Is the strake strong enough for entry/exit (with a piece of > carpet laid on it for good measure) if I decide not to put the step in? You are right that it is easy to hop in without the step. After awhile you will be able to glide right in without even stepping on the seat cushions. But I'd recommend adding the step anyway. It will be much easier on your passengers if the step is there. The ladies in particular will judge your plane not on the quality of your glasswork, but on little things like the ease of getting in and out, and the color of your paint trim :) I have noticed that they really like the Velocity Elite with the gull wing doors just because it is so easy to get into. You can add a little step with low drag, even retractable if you like, with so little effort that I'd put it in anyway. Dewey Davis Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 20:06:48 From: JRaerocad@gnn.com (Jeff Russell) Subject: Re: Ch 7/8 - Step? (fwd) Bill Walsh writes: >give Jeff Russell a call he used to have a neat retract step >in his bag of goodies. Still do. I have had a retractable step on both of my Canards not just because I did not like a step that hangs out in the wind,but the MAIN reason was my foot does not reach the bottom side of the airplane without great strain to me. Weldtech was making a step when I built the Cozy-3. I found that it mounted to the back of the Instrument Panel and it lowered down 11" from the bottom. This reminded me of a stirrup on a saddle. I could get in this bird like mounting a horse. No more foot twisting!!!! The cost for the step 6 years ago was $95.00 from Weldtech. We asked them if they would still make them and the anser was - No. So we made our own for the AeroCanard. Even with the EZ lift I always use the step for getting out to make sure the wheel is straight before lowering the nose and letting everyone else out of the plane. We have made 10 steps and sold 9 in 3 years. I need to find someone wanting to machine and weld more of these or I will be out of these for good. Let me know if anyone is interested. PS. Good to be home from Sun-N-Fun. AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 910-961-2238 E-mail: JRaerocad@gnn.com Date: 17 May 96 15:35:58 EDT From: "William E. Buckley" <74744.2301@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Seatbelt attachment "Son of a . . . ." along with the rest of an unpleasant sentence still echos in my garage. It seems I have counterbored to excess while installing the lower seatbelt attach brackets. At first I felt comfortable adding a couple washers on the outside (next to the head) to make the position of the threads perfect but noticed that I had completely gone through the lower longeron. The plans say to counterbore the holes but the diagram doesn't show it that way. The picture shows the bolt going completely through the longeron. Being that the head of the bolt will be held against the plywood insert instead of the lower longeron, does it constitute a reduction in holding strength? The plywood insert is held on by flox and 7 plies of BID. However, if the lower longeron were included, any load applied to the bracket would be dispersed throughout more of the structure instead of relying completely on adhesion. One of the bolts extends 1/8 of an inch too far. What an oaf !! I have since filed the tip of that drill bit to make it a little less aggressive (like I was told to do in the beginning). William E. Buckley (Cozy Mk IV, #437, Chap. 8) 74744.2301@compuserve.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Seatbelt attachment Date: Fri, 17 May 96 14:19:28 MDT >Being that the head of >the bolt will be held against the plywood insert instead of the >lower longeron, does it constitute a reduction in holding strength? The lower triangular longerons provide very little in the way of mechanical strength. In fact, not far from the seatbelt attach points they are sawed halfway through for the purpose of making them bend so they simply cannot transmit much load. The real pull-out strength is provided by the plywood and fiberglass. I wouldn't worry about it. Lee Devlin Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 13:39:38 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: COZY: Ch. 8 - Head rests? Just wondering... any particular reason the plans call for the left side head rest to be built without a back, while the right side headrest has a back? (Inquiring minds want to know). Thanks, Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:04:20 +0000 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 8 - Head rests? Jim Hocut wrote: > > Just wondering... any particular reason the plans call for the left side > head rest to be built without a back, while the right side headrest has a > back? (Inquiring minds want to know). > > Thanks, > > Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Jim, I just installed mine this weekend and here is what I did. The passenger side headrest is probably angled on the back so the turtleback brace will not hit it when you lower the canopy. The pilot side one however mounts to the turtleback brace and should not be cut back at an angle if you wnat to install it this way - make the whole thing 3-3/4" deep. In both cases, mine were too tall, so I had to cut them down anyways. I think the plans are wrong. You don't want to install them until you are almost done with the glasswork anyways (they will just get in the way), so I would suggest not even making them until you have your canopy on and can just make them to fit what you have. -eric From: Dick_Finn@em.fcnbd.com Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:05:34 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 8 - Head rests? This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as text. To process the remainder, you will need to use a Mime compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details. --IMA.Boundary.720106238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part RFC-822-Headers: X-Sender: jhocut@pop.atl.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk --IMA.Boundary.720106238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part As I remember it the right side headrest had a back but no bottom while the left side was completely enclosed. At least thats the way I built mine. In any case, I can understand building the left without a back as it is attached to the canopy. Immediately aft of the headrest is a former that is attached to the canopy. The shape of the headrest is outlined in this former and I believe that the headrest will be attached to the left one. In any case, I built the turtleback which includes the rear part of the canopy. When I constructed the form I added 1.5" to the height. After completion I flipped it right side up and set it down on the fuselage. I placed the headrests on the seat back and stood back to take a look. I was surprised to see that the headrests came within about 1" of the turtleback top. In other words, without the extra 1.5" the head rests would have poked out of the top of the plane by .5". Since everything seemed OK on my plane I never went back to check the headrest dimensions so it is possible I made them a little too big. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this. Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DICK.FINN@FNB.SPRINT.COM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: Ch. 8 - Head rests? Author: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com at INTERNET Date: 5/20/96 6:54 AM Just wondering... any particular reason the plans call for the left side head rest to be built without a back, while the right side headrest has a back? (Inquiring minds want to know). Thanks, Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com --IMA.Boundary.720106238-- Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tech Support - Rick Subject: COZY: Head Rests in Chap8 the reason for this apparent lack of backing traces its' history back to the RAF birds and the Cozy 3. Back in these days the headrest on both sides had backs and were permanently attached to the shoulder rest. Later, enter Vance and Co., pilot's side head rest became attached to canopy former and did not need the backing as the former becomes the backing itself. for those not tracking the history. Rick Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:20:22 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: COZY: Re: Ch 8-Shoulder Harness Attach Points Any reason not to simply flox the nutplate (MS-21069-L4) to the inside of the shoulder support after it cures and before installation? I'm assuming that the 1/16" Al tab called for in the plans serves no structural purpose and is simply an aid in getting the nutplate positioned correctly. Thanks, Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 17:45:44 -0400 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Ch 8-Shoulder Harness Attach Points In a message dated 96-05-25 14:27:22 EDT, you write: > I'm assuming >that the 1/16" Al tab called for in the plans serves no structural purpose >and is simply an aid in getting the nutplate positioned correctly Jim, I believe that you are supposed to "fill" the area above the plywood with layers of bid. One would not be able to find the hole even if you could keep it clear during the layup process. Paul Burkhardt Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:33:43 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Ch 8-Shoulder Harness Attach Points At 05:45 PM 5/26/96 -0400, Paul Burkhardt wrote: >Jim, I believe that you are supposed to "fill" the area above the plywood >with layers of bid. One would not be able to find the hole even if you could >keep it clear during the layup process. This may sound silly, but I prefer to try and find simpler ways of doing things. What I wound up doing was to 5-min the wood inserts in place. After that was cured I layed in the 12 ply (actually I used 16 to compensate for the fact that I vac. bagged the piece) layups, and simultaneously did the 1 ply bid on the top surface. Next day I did the 1 ply bid on the bottom surface. After that was cured I took it over to my drill press and cut holes. Then I floxed 1/16" Al tabs in place (with the holes pre-drilled), put the MS???? bolts through the holes to hold the nutplates in place, and floxed in the nutplates. Next I put some candle wax in the holes as previiously suggested, floxed the two pieces together and let cure. Instead of having my layups overhang the edges I used approx. 2" "tape". What I have now is the shoulder support w/ the holes drilled for shoulder harnesses, all w/ 1 ply bid inside and out, and w/ bare BID overhanging each side. When I install it all I'll pre-wet the 2nd ply of BID and lay that over the entire exterior w/ the appropriate overhang. This all sounds more involved than it really is, it actually turned out quite easy for me, since I can usually only work an hour or two each night of the week and this broke it into bite size pieces. Someone had expressed concern about the nutplates coming loose when torque is put on the shoulder harness attach bolts. After looking at the end result (I used a pretty good sized glob of flox on each nutplate), it's apparent those puppies aren't going anywhere. I may add 1 additional ply of BID for added strength, I recall reading somewhere that several EZ types involved in accidents sustained damage in the shoulder harness attach areas, and I like the idea of rounding the seat back and extending the BID an inch or two onto the back of the seat. Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 21:37:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Walsh Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Ch 8-Shoulder Harness Attach Points On Sat, 25 May 1996, Jim Hocut wrote: > > > Any reason not to simply flox the nutplate (MS-21069-L4) to the inside of > the shoulder support after it cures and before installation? I'm assuming > that the 1/16" Al tab called for in the plans serves no structural purpose > and is simply an aid in getting the nutplate positioned correctly. > > Thanks, > Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com > > Jim, Your right about this. There is no reason that I could find to do it per plans. This is one of the examples of "what the heck???"rationals. BW Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 08:36:03 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: COZY: Chap 8 - Headrests After looking at the headrests in Chapter 8 I have decided to go another "less triangular" route. I will be installing adjustable automotive headrests (mine are from the rear bench seats of a Grand Caravan, but they are all pretty similar). There are a few reasons why I want to go this route; They look MUCH better than the triangles, they are height adjustable, they are removeable, they will not interfere with the new seatbelt attach points. Some modifications to the shoulder support are necessary. For one, the headrests slide in a sleave which must be mounted in the support. Due to the length of the shafts on the headrests, they will penetrate the seatback when they are fully in the down position. This requires a cosmetic cover which I will be making. I will be installing the shoulder support this week and making the required mod's for the headrests. I understand this is a change from the plans (although I consider it an improvement) and I take full responsibility. Having said that, I am open to criticism. Does anyone wish to comment (good or bad) on this mod? Brian DeFord, Cozy MK-IV N309BD Completed chapters 4-7, 10-12, 15-17 Partially completed chapters 8 and 24 Date: Mon, 03 Jun 96 15:55:16 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 8 - Headrests Brian Deford writes: >>>>After looking at the headrests in Chapter 8 I have decided to go another "less triangular" route. I will be installing adjustable automotive headrests (mine are from the rear bench seats of a Grand Caravan, but they are all pretty similar). << The triangular pieces not only serve to hold the headrests but also serve as a rollover support structure. Whether they would successfully fulfill that need I don't know. Have you considered how you will provide that function if you remove the triangular pieces? Bob Misterka N342RM From: "Paul Comte" Organization: Computer Systems Consulting, Inc. Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:33:11 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 8 - Headrests > Brian Deford writes: > > >>>>After looking at the headrests in Chapter 8 I have decided to > go another "less triangular" route. I will be installing > adjustable automotive headrests (mine are from the rear bench > seats of a Grand Caravan, but they are all pretty similar). << > Bob Misterka N342RM responded: > > The triangular pieces not only serve to hold the headrests but > also serve as a rollover support structure. An option? Could you combine a movable pad (velcro?) with the standard headrest. Our last chapter meeting included a discussion about roll over protection. Charlie Hillard's accident precipitated that discussion. One of our members said some of the mods to that aircraft included adding a rear cockpit. In a picture in this months Sport Avaition, it looks like the canopy could not slide back far enough to provide rear seat access if roll over protection was in place. I'm don't know that a roll bar was ever in there. Would it have held plane up in that soft ground long enough to make a difference? Some things may be best left alone. Paul Comte pcomte@csci.com MKE WI Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 20:58:06 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 8 - Headrests Regarding the rollover protection provided by headrests, I'd been having the same thoughts. I do believe that someone pointed out that we have a fiberglass "hoop" structure in the canopy which will provide some protection, whereas the Long does not (I don't know that for a fact, only repeating what someone else wrote). I have decided, however, to beef up the headrests - just in case. I'm using 3 plies of bid on the inside, and another 3 on the outside. In addition to that I'll be putting "ribs" on the inside of each headrest which will double as a screwplate for fastening the backs of the headrests to (removable backs - I like Nat's idea of mounting an intercom in the headrest, but want to have EZ access to it for maintenance, etc.). (I'll have a removable back on the left side headrest also, I just don't like the looks of a hollow headrest plus it's added rollover protection). Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:38:32 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Chap 8 - Headrests Text item: >Brian, >I am considering redoing mine also this way but how did you get around >the turtleback/canopy bulkhead?? Bill W Having test fitted the headrests on the shoulder support, I have found that they will not interfere in any way with the bulkhead. They sit slightly forward of the bulkhead. The Cozy headrest sits to the forward side of the shoulder support in a verticle position. Later, when installing upholstery, you add ~2in of cushion to the front of the headrest. Since the automotive headrests are already upholstered, I located them so that they sit ~2in in front of the forward side of the shoulder support. This puts the headrest shafts near the front of the support and gives plenty of clearance at the rear where the bulkhead comes down. Hope this helps. Once they are installed I will post an encoded JPEG image if you or anyone is wanting to see what they look like. Brian DeFord, Cozy MK-IV N309B Brian_deford@ccm.ch.intel.com Completed chapters 4-7, 10-12, 15-17 (602) 899-8643 Partially completed chapters 8 and 24 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:09:35 -0400 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Rollover or Headrest Jim Newman writes on 6 June regarding a CP article on Rutan's views on rollover structure: >There is more discussion in this CP, but this is the jist of it. Maybe >Stet Elliott can post this paragraph from the CP in it's entirety since he >has them in his computer. I realize this info comes from the Long-EZ Canard >Pusher, but it is still good information to be aware of. Sorry for the delay. Been away from the computer for awhile. Here is the complete text of the referenced article: VARIEZE/LONG-EZ ROLLOVER/HEADREST We have received a letter from Andrew Detroi of the FAA concerning the forced landing/crash of a Long-EZ that he investigated. This crash involved a Long-EZ that lost power after takeoff. The pilot made a successful 180 degree turn, landed long and left the runway. The nose gear collapsed, the nose dug in and the aircraft flipped inverted with enough forward velocity to break the canard in half and rip one wing off at the end of the centersection spar. The rollover/headrest was broken off. The pilot and passenger received minor head cuts, scratches and bruises. This letter has been distributed to the various FAA offices and in some cases redistributed with some inaccuracies. This has caused some consternation among the local FAA and among groups and individual Long-EZ builders. We have spoken to the FAA in Chicago and they have agreed with us that obviously the pilot's head rest is not, nor was it ever intended to be strong enough to resist the forces imposed in an inverted crash with any appreciable forward speed. It is a roll over structure, and has proven that it will remain intact in the event that one of these aircraft should roll over with little or no forward speed. This was in fact the case, when Ken Swain flipped his EZ in a corn field near Oshkosh after an engine failure. His aircraft ended up resting on the rollover structure (canopy broken), the firewall and two broken winglets. He was not injured, but had to wait for others to lift the aircraft to get out. The rollover has provided this protection in at least two other cases, one example is in CP #14. However, the rollover structure is obviously not designed to handle an inverted landing! This structure is also a head rest and doubles as a map case/storage area. It will not protect you should you strike the ground inverted or roll over with any significant speed or impact energy. We of course object to Mr. Detroi's inference that the rollover should have (or could have) provided protection in an earlier Minnesota Long-EZ accident that was not survivable, regardless of the head rest. (See CP #31). Design loads for an "adequate" roll over protection are difficult to define. Obviously, a second landing gear on the top could protect for 10 ft/sec drop at full landing speed and just as obvious a very heavy structure would be snapped off by a hole or curb at only 10 mph. RAF does not have a specific recommendation in this area and we will not be reinforcing our headrests. The decision to do this rests with each individual homebuilt manufacturer. RAF will continue to strive to openly pass along all information to help you in your building decisions. You may for example want to change references of "rollover structure" to "headrest" if you feel this is more appropriate. END OF ARTICLE Hope this helps. Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long--EZ builder Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:39:46 -0400 From: Fritzx2@aol.com Subject: COZY: Shoulder Support BID Orientation When I was just about to start glassing the outside of the front seat shoulder support, I realized that the instructions didn't specifically say to orient the 2 ply BID at a 45 degree angle. No orientation was given for the inside of the shoulder support for that matter. After looking through other chapters, I found many cases where the angle is not given. Sometimes, however, it does say orient at a 45 degree angle while other times it might just say any direction. I did find an example on the BID layup from the bottom and sides over the the bottom engine mount hardpoint where the text does not say to orient at a 45 degree angle but the figure was drawn with the fibers at a 45 degree angle. Also, the instructional chapter says that most of the time the BID is applied a 45 degree angle. What has everyone else been doing, BID at 45 degree angle unless otherwise specified? Aside from the occurences of "any orientation", has anyone seen a time when BID is done straight? John Fritz Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:52:19 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: COZY: Shoulder Support BID Orientation My own inclination has always been to do BID at 45 degrees unless specifically directed otherwise. I personally don't recall at any time doing it otherwise although I could easily have forgotten. Michael 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove, CA 94951 707.664.1171 Systems engineering hardware/software Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:28:28 -0400 From: CozyBldr@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Shoulder Support BID Orientation In a message dated 96-07-27 23:41:34 EDT, John Fritz writes: >When I was just about to start glassing the >outside of the front seat shoulder support, >I realized that the instructions didn't specifically >say to orient the 2 ply BID at a 45 degree angle. >No orientation was given for the inside of >the shoulder support for that matter. >After looking through other chapters, I found >many cases where the angle is not given. >Sometimes, however, it does say orient at a >45 degree angle while other times it might just >say any direction. I did find an example on the >BID layup from the bottom and sides over the >the bottom engine mount hardpoint where >the text does not say to orient at a 45 degree angle >but the figure was drawn with the fibers at a 45 >degree angle. Also, the instructional chapter says >that most of the time the BID is applied a 45 degree >angle. > >What has everyone else been doing, BID at 45 degree >angle unless otherwise specified? Aside from the occurences >of "any orientation", has anyone seen a time when BID is >done straight? > > One of the things I found with BID is that it goes around corners better if it's oriented at 45 degrees to the corner. On flat pieces where not specifically called out, it doesn't seem to matter much as BID seems to give pretty good strength in all directions. My feeling is don't sweat it. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV #200 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:22:32 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Seat Belt Attatchments Please help, I decided to trial - fit my seat belt attachments. I have 6 screws ( as per parts list ) The drawings show two holes per fitting. ( front brackets ) Do I assume that only 1 screw is used per attachment at the rear seats, or can I add 2 more screws to my list? Sometimes the simple things complicate life! Many Thanks Rego Burger P.E. S.A. Cozy Mk IV # 139 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Seat Belt Attatchments (fwd) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 8:47:01 EDT Rego Burger writes: >I decided to trial - fit my seat belt attachments. I have 6 screws ( as >per parts list ) >The drawings show two holes per fitting. ( front brackets ) >Do I assume that only 1 screw is used per attachment at the rear seats, >or can I add 2 more screws to my list? You have 6 screws for the right and left rear and right front attachments, each of which use two. The two screws used for the front left (pilot side) are a different length because they hold both the seat belt attach bracket _and_ the outside step in place. There are also two more shorter screws for the step alone. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 08:10:00 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 6, step 3. Text item: Roy asks... > I also have a question. Where was that third lay to go? Nat says, "Add >a 3rd BID ahead of the back seat where weight will be concentrated when >climbing in." Where does the backseat start? Or was this supposed to >be the Seat Back? I just put a third layer going the whole length of the >floor aligned with the centerline. I figure I'll save a little weight >with the vacuum bag so I could afford it. I took this to say seat back. In other words, lay up the third ply where the pilot and co-pilot feet will be hitting when they get in. Putting a layer across the floor for both front and back seat isn't going to hurt. > I've also been working on the Shoulder brace. I'm going to use 3/8" >G-10 for the hard points, however I want to know if anyone has a better >idea to get the nutplates in rather then cutting away at the support and >then sliding them in? What is so bad about predrilling the holes and >installing the nutplate with flox before you install the brace? Nothing in my opinion! I did exactly that and it is bound to save you time and frustration. I put bolts in place during cure so that it all cured in the correct place. It's extremely frustrating when you flox one of those nutplates in and it shifts slightly so that the holes no longer line up. Brian DeFord Cozy MK-IV #309