Subject: Shop specifics Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 09:20:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Smith Hello, I am a new subscriber to the cozy builders mailing list. My name is Randy Smith and I live in Lexington, SC. Near Columbia. I am going to build a cozy MK-IV in the near future but first I must build a shop to build it in. I am planning on 16' x 24' with 10' high ceiling on the first floor. A barn type (I think its called a Gambrell) roof covering a small room on top. The sides are going to be made such that I can add lean-to type sheds in the future if needed. Pathetic ASCII graphics are shown below. At this stage I can only write about building the shop since building the cozy will depend on the progress of the shop. The shop story IS the cozy story for the present time, please bear with me. Just as G.A. Venkatesh finds motivation to build from writing about it, so do I. I am wondering if the dimensions that I've decided upon will provide enough space to build most of the pieces of the cozy? What can I change at this stage that will make building more enjoyable/manageable without making my budget NOT enjoyable/manageable? Where do you other builders out there build? + - - - - +++++++++++ - - - - + | 8' + 16' + 8' | | + + | | Future + + Future | | expan. + + expan. | | + + | | + + | | + 24'+ | | + + | | + + | | + + | + - - - - ++=======++ - - - - + Garage Door I look forward to corresponding with ya'll on this and many other subjects in the future. Thanks to Marc for setting this up. -Randy --* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -* Crash Rescue Team 7 - Don't PANIC! _____|_____ AT&T Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.attgis.com -(X)- Global Support Center Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648 ___o/o\o___ West Columbia, SC 29170 "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC Date: Wed, 10 May 95 08:46:42 PDT From: "Michael Antares" Subject: Building space My building area (an ex-garage) is approximately 22x20 feet. I find this to be entirely adequate EXCEPT that the entrance to it has two sliding doors with a center post. The completed fuselage with strakes attached will not go out the door as it currently exists. Removing the center post will allow the roof to fall in unless it is supported in the interim! Possible but inconvenient. So if you are building from scratch, you should provide an entrance large enough to clear the strakes which are approximately 12 feet wide. I know others are building the Cozy with much less room than I have so I suppose in the long run you make do with what you have. Michael Antares Software/Hardware Systems Engineering mantares@crl.com Santa Rosa, California Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 08:25:37 -0500 "Marc J. Zeitlin" From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Work Table Protection What are all of you using to protect your worktable from epoxy drips etc. I think I will try covering the area with saran wrap rather than wax paper which can contaminate the layup. Any other ideas? Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Work Table Protection (fwd) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 95 11:43:58 EDT Tim S. writes: >What are all of you using to protect your worktable from epoxy drips etc. I >think I will try covering the area with saran wrap rather than wax paper >which can contaminate the layup. Any other ideas? Nothing. Once it gets really crudded up, I whip out the belt sander with the course grit belt, at take it all off. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Work Table Protection (fwd) I do the saran wrap and the belt sander. If your bench top is not made of particle board, I would suggest putting a 1/4" thick piece over the top of it. Makes breaking away jigs and drips of epoxy really easy. I also purchased a restaurant size roll of saran wrap at Price Costco for about $15. After 3.5 years, it loks like enough to build a dozen planes. Also, you may already know about these, but I just picked up a 5-pack of the dremel #426 fiberglass reinforced cut-off wheels. They are amazing, buzzing through glass and foam like a diamond saw. They were about $7.50 for the 5-pack. On Wed, 23 Aug 1995, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > Tim S. writes: > > >What are all of you using to protect your worktable from epoxy drips etc. I > >think I will try covering the area with saran wrap rather than wax paper > >which can contaminate the layup. Any other ideas? > > Nothing. Once it gets really crudded up, I whip out the belt sander > with the course grit belt, at take it all off. > > -- > > Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com From: KNEIDEL ERIC Subject: RE: Work Table Protection (fwd) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 95 12:18:00 CDT Encoding: 29 TEXT From: Marc J. Zeitlin >Tim S. writes: >>What are all of you using to protect your worktable from epoxy drips etc. I >>think I will try covering the area with saran wrap rather than wax paper >>which can contaminate the layup. Any other ideas? >Nothing. Once it gets really crudded up, I whip out the belt sander >with the course grit belt, at take it all off. I applied a couple of liberal coats of linseed oil. It seems to help. The epoxy will come off with a paint scraper. Using a belt sander can make your table un-flat if you're not very careful. Maybe it's not critical for an Cozy part, but it can make a difference when I'm making furniture. Follow the instructions that come with the oil - Linseed oil is very exothermic as it dries. Dispose of the oily rags in an air-tight can, or let them dry where they won't catch anything on fire if they get hot. -- Date: 23 Aug 1995 10:19:22 U From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: WorkBench (surface material Tim Sullivan writes- I have made my table top out of 1" thick Melamine. Melamine is the material used to build the interior of kitchen cabinets.The base material is particle board with a fused exterior coating (typically white) that is fairly durable. The drippings when cured just pop off with a handheld chisel or are wiped up with acetone when wet. Its great, the only problem that I have had is that the stuff is fairly slick and on small items you will find your self chasing the part around the table unless you secure it somehow. Bondo,five minute and the 2183/2410 epoxy do not permanently stick to this surface. judd 04 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:29:32 -0500 "Marc J. Zeitlin" From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Workbench Thanks for the replies. My bench is made of 3/4" plywood so sanding would be a bad experience down the road. I will try the saran wrap and see what happens. I just thought there was something obvious that I was missing. Disposable workbenches seem to be a must in the long run. Thanks Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:21:34 -0400 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: Work Table Protection On 8/23, Tim Sullivan asked: >What are all of you using to protect your worktable from epoxy drips etc. I >think I will try covering the area with saran wrap rather than wax paper >which can contaminate the layup. Any other ideas? I picked up 4 sheets of 4'x8' 1/8" thick Masonite, and put 4 layers on my work table, liberally screwed down with drywall screws. I think Masonite comes in two grades, a light brown, softer (and cheaper) grade, and a dark brown, harder grade. I used the cheaper stuff. When the top layer became unusable, I just removed it. It took 4 years to use up the 4 layers. Otherwise, I didn't protect the table. I just wiped up the epoxy that I could and chipped off (or ignored) the rest. If you do this, be aware that the masonite can bow a little where not screwed down. If I needed an absolute straight surface (not often), I just added more drywall screws at strategic locations. Stet Elliott Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: 13 Sep 1995 14:02:57 U From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: Workbench Surface Material I have been using Melamine for my workbench and have a first hand experience. If epoxy drops on the table let it cure and then pop it off. If you wipe (with a Acetone saturated rag) it up and don't get it all, the next time the droppings/parts will adhere more strongly. I was working on my bench which had numerous thin layers of epoxy and my part stuck to it. I literally had to pry the part from the table. Judd #006 Date: 18 Sep 1995 13:02:00 -0500 From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Workbench for Cozy IV I am new to the mailing list, and am trying to determine my space requirements prior to "making the plunge" (i.e. buying the plans, I already subscribe to the newsletter). I gather from the postings to the WWW page that a 3'x12' work bench is required. My question is, do you need access from both sides for this bench, or is built in along a wall okay? Thanks, Bill Schertz From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: Workbench for Cozy IV Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 14:53:18 MDT Bill wrote: > I am new to the mailing list, and am trying to determine my space requirements > prior to "making the plunge" (i.e. buying the plans, I already subscribe to > the newsletter). I gather from the postings to the WWW page that a 3'x12' work > bench is required. My question is, do you need access from both sides for this > bench, or is built in along a wall okay? Good question. For the Chapter 4, which is the first chapter where you actually start building parts that go into the plane, you could probably get away with one-sided access, although it would be somewhat inconvenient. However, for Chapter 5, you will definitely need access to both sides so you should probably plan room for it prior to starting. I have found that a workbench with access from all sides to be surprisingly more useful than one built up against a wall for this type of work. Lee Devlin From: Lee Devlin Subject: Workshop alternatives Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 18:05:57 MDT I was in the process of planning a new garage in my yard in which to work on the Cozy. I started building the Cozy in the basement and moved it into the attached garage before it got too big to fit out of the basement. Now it is getting cold and it's inconvenient to move all of the stuff around so that I can get at least one car in the garage at night (to prevent having to scrape windows in the morning). I have my wife almost convinced that another detached 2 car garage makes sense and will add value to the house. I have calculated its cost at approximately $10K. However, now I'm beginning to feel somewhat ambivalent about a the time and expense of adding a new workshop. I don't know if it will help or hinder my progress and I could certainly use the $10K for the Cozy. Perhaps having this project staring me down and taking up valuable space helps to keep it fresh in my mind. A separate workshop would tend 'hide' it from view and perhaps allow the Cozy to languish when I get distracted with other things. I am also aware that many of you are making do with even less space than a two car garage and perhaps a separate structure is an extravagance that I can live without. What I'd really like is a 'switch' to convert the garage back and forth from a workshop to a garage. Any suggestions or other alternatives to building another structure? Thanks, Lee Devlin Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 21:37:18 -0500 From: Danky01@aol.com Subject: Re: Workshop alternatives In a message dated 95-10-25 20:13:24 EDT, Lee Devlin writes: >What I'd really like is a 'switch' to convert the garage back and forth >from a workshop to a garage. Any suggestions or other alternatives to >building another structure? > > I have not finished my workshop yet, but I can tell what I have in progress. I started out working in a 2 car garage ( 20 X 26) , added gas heat and lots of lights and this was ok for a while. Now I have the plane sitting on the gear, spar installed, wings on the floor, canard stored in the rafters, engine on a work stand, all shelf space is full and my cars have been sitting outside for 2 years now. Something had to change here. What I came up for my change was to add an 18 X 26 addition onto the front of my garage. I would have made it bigger, but the lot size is only so big. I am keeping the overhead door on the front of the existing garage, this will act as a divider between the car parking area and the workshop area. My 2 cars are small, they fit in 18 feet ok. The addition keeps me close to the airplane project and it saves money in construction costs also, as one wall is already built. The front wall will have an 18 X 8 foot door, so most of the front wall is door, That leaves 2 walls and a roof to build. The other advantage of building the garage and workshop next to each other is if I turn the plane sideways I should be able to mount both wings on at the same time. This will be done again during the finish stage to check the fit between the wings and the strakes. The strakes are not yet mounted on my plane and will not be until I quit working on the garage. This will also allow my wifes' car to be parked inside out of the snow and ice, same as it used to be before "that darned plane" took her parking spot. This will simplify my life to no end. I am using cinder block to build the walls, so that it matches the existing structure. I do my own block work and my own cement work and I am sure that I can build this for less than 10K. The increase in resale value if I ever leave should be that much or more, so this should be an ok investment. Kyle Dansie CozyIV #86 Subject: Shop heaters - Oil filled type Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:24:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Randy Smith" Hi kids, I am planning to purchase a small space heater for my newly constructed Cozy manufacturing facility. I was wondering if any of you had experience with the oil filled electric heaters that are available at Wal-Mart(tm) etc. I plan to put in a heat pump in the spring when my finances recover a bit, but for now I need heat only at certain times. Any ideas about how much current these small heaters pull? (I couldn't find it on the box) I know this has been smashed about before, but I wasn't paying attention. :-( -Randy --* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -* Crash Rescue Team 7 - Don't PANIC! _____|_____ AT&T Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.attgis.com -(X)- Global Support Center Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648 ___o/o\o___ West Columbia, SC 29170 "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:38:37 -0600 From: campbell@ee.umn.edu (faculty S. A. Campbell) Building in Minnesota, I have some experience with heaters. Electrical code limits single phase 110 V heaters to 1500 watts (reasonable since most wiring in homes is 14 gauge which must be fused at 15 A). I find that such a heater raises the temperature of a 250 sq ft shop by about seven degrees F. YMMV, but if you are going with electric heaters, you must be starting with a fairly warm room. Regards, Steve From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 11:48:57 EST Randy Smith wrote; >I am planning to purchase a small space heater for my newly constructed Cozy >manufacturing facility. I was wondering if any of you had experience with the >oil filled electric heaters that are available at Wal-Mart(tm) etc. >I plan to put in a heat pump in the spring when my finances recover a bit, but >for now I need heat only at certain times. Any ideas about how much current >these small heaters pull? (I couldn't find it on the box) These are electric heaters, and for the life of me I don't know why (other than the fact that they look like radiators and operate at lower temperatures) someone would pay the extra money for one of these over an standard electric space heater. The ones I've seen operate at the standard 750 watts and 1500 watts - there may be larger ones, but I've never seen them. These will be totally useless for heating a large space. I use two 1500 watt space heaters in my small basement, and they're barely adequate to create a 20 degree F temperature rise (50 --> 70 or 60 --> 80 degrees). What you want is a kerosene heater, 10,000 to 30,000 BtuH. This will keep an uninsulated garage 50 deg F or so above the ambient temperature, will run for 10 hours on a tank, and will cost about $1-3/tank. You don't want to know how much you'd pay for electricity to do the same thing. I have a 30K BtuH torpedo heater I used to heat my workspace when I was working in an unheated warehouse on the Q2. I enclosed my space with 4 mil plastic on a wood frame, and the heater would easily keep it 50 deg F above the warehouse temperature. The round ones are nicer, and don't smell as much, but the torpedoes are a bit cheaper. I think you can get one for a couple hundred bucks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:07:25 -0500 From: william l kleb Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin writes: > > What you want is a kerosene heater, 10,000 to 30,000 BtuH. > i second the size, but i prefer a propane fired one. i have a 100,000 BtuH (serious overkill down here in virginia) forced-air kerosene heater, but i find that the soot and smell are too much to deal with when i could have a propane version at roughly the same cost (~$US180) without the associated soot and smell. adding a thermostat plug (~$35) would make it a very nice set-up indeed. --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 73 bellanca 7gcbc citabria 99 kleb cozy iv From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: Shop heaters Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 10:33:10 MST Randy wrote: > I am planning to purchase a small space heater for my newly constructed Cozy > manufacturing facility. I was wondering if any of you had experience with the > oil filled electric heaters that are available at Wal-Mart(tm) etc. I bought a couple of 1500 Watt heaters for $20 each and they work very well. They produce 5200 BTU/hr each and, once my garage (500 sq. ft) is up to temperature, they can keep it at 40F above ambient. To get it up to temperature, I have a propane radiant heater that attaches directly to the top of a 20 lb. tank. This puts out 12,000 or 24,000 BTU/hr depending on if I have one or both burners turned on. It raises the temperature of the garage about 1 degree F per minute so I can get it up to temperature in around 30 minutes. The gagage has an automatic +10 degree F difference from the outside temperature due to leakage from the house. I also insulated the ceiling of the garage a few weeks ago which helped a lot. The nice thing about the electric heaters is that they are extremely compact and lightweight having plastic enclosures and I can use them sort of like a hair dryer to fan the layups for better wetting out. They work better than a hairdryer for big layups because the air is not so hot and it's fan is higher volume with lower velocity. In addition, after a layup I can cover it with a plastic sheet and put the heater under it and keep only that portion of the garage up to temperature for the cure. The drawback to electric heaters is their significant current draw. Each electric heater draws around 12 amps. Fortunately, the outlets in my garage are serviced by two separate circuits. If I put them on the same circuit, I get unacceptable voltage sag. Also, if I am using the shopvac, I'll temporarily turn the heater that shares that circuit lest I trip a circuit breaker. Lee Devlin From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 13:02:38 EST bil kleb writes: > >Marc J. Zeitlin writes: >> >> What you want is a kerosene heater, 10,000 to 30,000 BtuH. >> > >i second the size, but i prefer a propane fired one. i have >a 100,000 BtuH (serious overkill down here in virginia) >forced-air kerosene heater, but i find that >the soot and smell are too much to deal with when i could >have a propane version at roughly the same cost (~$US180) >without the associated soot and smell. adding a thermostat >plug (~$35) would make it a very nice set-up indeed. The round (non-torpedo) type heaters have almost no soot and smell. I have one of the thermostats, and yes, it's very nice. I imagine the propane would be very nice too. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Randy Stockberger Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 10:22:15 PST I have a couple of questions about the heaters being discussed. Re: Kerosene and oil heaters. I have been told that these are unacceptable for composite construction because they only burn about 99.99% of the fuel. The remaining fuel leaves an oily film over the project and will cause problems with layup delamination on composites. Is this true or am I out in left field (again)? Re: Propane. Make sure you store your propane outside. It is common for the connections and fittings on these propane containers to leak. The gas is heavier than air and settles into low spots. An explosion can result from a spark, which you provide whenever you turn your shop lights on or off. -- Randy Stockberger randys@cv.hp.com Corvallis, OR 503-715-3589 -- From: Marc Zeitlin Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 14:50:28 EST Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Randy Stockberger writes: >Re: Kerosene and oil heaters. I have been told that these are >unacceptable for composite construction because they only burn about >99.99% of the fuel. The remaining fuel leaves an oily film over the >project and will cause problems with layup delamination on composites. >Is this true or am I out in left field (again)? My one data point was that I had no problem like this at all. Maybe my work area was so drafty and leaky that the air changed often enough so that this couldn't happen. I don't know. I know a COZY 3 builder in N.H. who uses a kerosene heater in his basement (one of the round kinds) and has no problems either. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Ken Reiter Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:11:10 CST Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) Hello Guys, Several Years building with a 55,000 BTU Readdy?? forced air heater and have had no problems. HOwever, like Marc my garage was drafty and I used a fan to keep the air moving. Ken Reiter > From marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Tue Nov 7 14:13:56 1995 > From: Marc Zeitlin > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 14:50:28 EST > To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Cozy MK-IV Builders) > Subject: Re: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) > Content-Length: 743 > X-Lines: 18 > > Randy Stockberger writes: > > >Re: Kerosene and oil heaters. I have been told that these are > >unacceptable for composite construction because they only burn about > >99.99% of the fuel. The remaining fuel leaves an oily film over the > >project and will cause problems with layup delamination on composites. > >Is this true or am I out in left field (again)? > > My one data point was that I had no problem like this at all. Maybe my > work area was so drafty and leaky that the air changed often enough so > that this couldn't happen. I don't know. I know a COZY 3 builder in > N.H. who uses a kerosene heater in his basement (one of the round kinds) > and has no problems either. > > -- > Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com > > > Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 08:58:31 EST From: "Wilhelmson, Jack" Encoding: 14 Text Subject: Re[2]: Shop heaters - Oil filled type (fwd) MARK: With reference to the oily film from heaters. The catalytic type heaters that have a incandescent metal catalyst do not leave a oily film. I used one for two years in my workshop with no oily film and no delaminations. The large forced air types (The ones that roar like a jet engine) produce more fumes, but they also do not leave a oily film because they also have a incandescent catalyst plate. I have also used those to heat up my workshop fast. This misinformation may come from the older type heaters that do not have catalysts or from using inferior grade fuel. I use JP4 jet fuel in my forced air heater and it reduces the fumes produced greatly with no explosions yet. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: more on heaters Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 20:43:35 EST People; While out here in sunny CA on a business trip, I spent Sunday visiting with Michael Antares and Marc and Nadine Parmalee. Michael has a 24,000 BtuH propane heater (radiant) which he claims works very well, and M&N have a kerosene heater (catalytic double burner) which they use indoors and say leaves NO residue or smell. The propane heater clips onto the propane tanks, costs ~$100, and refilling the propane tank costs ~$5 (and lasts a few days). The kerosene heater is a few hundred $$. More data points. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: more on heaters Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 22:37:02 MST Marc wrote: > While out here in sunny CA on a business trip, I spent Sunday visiting > with Michael Antares and Marc and Nadine Parmalee. Michael has a 24,000 > BtuH propane heater (radiant) which he claims works very well, and M&N > have a kerosene heater (catalytic double burner) which they use indoors > and say leaves NO residue or smell. The propane heater clips onto the > propane tanks, costs ~$100, and refilling the propane tank costs ~$5 > (and lasts a few days). The kerosene heater is a few hundred $$. I have a dual element propane heater which must be similar Michael's heater. I generally only need it to bring the shop up to temperature and then I turn it off and maintain the temperature with a pair of electric heaters. The fuel consumption at 1 lb/hr when both elements are on which means the cost is ~$.30/hr. I only heat my garage when I'm working in it and for a period of around 8 hours after doing a layup. With my goal of working on the plane 40 hours/month, it spends most (>75%) of its time without heat. I have never encountered an unvented kerosene heater that didn't smell, although the owners may not have noticed it. My explanation for this is that the nose is a differential detector and, when immersed in an odor long enough, will no longer be able to identify it. Kerosene heaters have gotten better over the years, but during the start up period all heavy fuel heaters will fail to achieve complete combustion of the fuel. I don't think that a delamination problem would necessarily result from the use of kersene heater, and I'd probably be using one myself if my wife didn't object to the smell. Lee Devlin Subject: Heater final solution Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 11:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Randy Smith" Hello all, I appreciate the information about the oil-filled space heaters. I feel that the advice given here has saved me lots of money. I decided that what I really wanted was a heat pump. Once my wife picked herself up off the floor when she found out what the new ones cost, I figured I could start the search looking for a used one with her blessing. I have found a 2 ton unit that will be serious overkill for the shop and second floor, but for $75.00, I don't mind. My wife said "go for it" and that is indeed what I intend to do this weekend. (Its in another town :-)) Now if I just had the electricity working out there... With an epoxy pump for Christmas, and a check to Alexander's we could start Cozy #485 in January. :-) -Randy --* --- -* **-* *-** -*-- -* Crash Rescue Team 7 - Don't PANIC! _____|_____ AT&T Randy.Smith@ColumbiaSC.attgis.com -(X)- Global Support Center Voice 803-939-7648, V+ 633-7648 ___o/o\o___ West Columbia, SC 29170 "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -JC Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:18:12 -0500 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: Fresh Air System I recently developed an allergic reaction to epoxy in the process of building my Cozy Mark IV, and in the attempt to fight to problem have came up with a inexpensive fresh air system that works great. I used the regular half face mask respirator for a while but because I wear glasses the half face design becomes very uncomfortable after a short time. HobbyAir sells a complete Fresh Air System for $479. I found the same type pullover full face hood for $54, and made the airpump with an electronic inshop air flow control for about $100 more. The system works great. Running the pump at about 30% power supplies a comfortable amount of air, and at that speed the motor has very little noise and can even be placed in the house without disturbing anyone. I think this system is an improvement over the shopvac type systems that run at full power (supplying air to one or more persons) during use. If anyone would like a list of parts and instructions, just email me and I will get it off to you. Marc N425CZ ; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:50:23 -0500 Date: 4 Dec 1995 08:52:37 U From: "Jeff Schramm" Subject: RE: Fresh Air System Marc Nadine writes: [snip] >> and made the airpump with an electronic inshop air flow control for about $100 more. << Sounds great - I'd like to see the parts list posted. I've heard of problems with compressor motors delivering atomized machine oil into the airflow. This can probably be filtered out fairly easily. You also want to make sure you're using nontoxic hose - you can get it at medical supply stores. Jeff Schramm Ordering Plans Soon Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:48:07 -0500 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: The Fresh Air System Because of the response, I decided to just post this to all. I hope the system works for all of you. Sunday we glassed the top spar cap on the Main Spar and had the system running for over 9hrs. with no problems, the motor was just slightly warm. So far the two best features of the system is one, the motor runs quiet and two, I was able to adjust the volume of air as needed from a control on the side of my work table. History: I got the idea from a piece written by Pat Bradley in the July 95 issue of Central States Association new letter. Pat used a 2.0 hp single-stage shop vac as the blower running at 100% power. He controlled the air volume by using air loop system controlled by a 1.5" nylon ball valve in the loop. Pat feels that this system could support up to 5 or more users. The Fix: The 2.0 hp, single-stage, shop vac that Pat used MAYBE OK if it could put out good pressure with the RPMs turned down. All shop vac and blowers have a life expenctancy rating of 500 hrs. With the reduction of the voltage the life expectancy of the motor is enhanced. The key is to use a motor speed control to limit the motor speed as needed. Grainger (800) 323-0620, sells few of them, I choose Dayton Model # 4X797 speed control. It sells for $25.60 and can handle motors upto 10 amps. This control can be installed anywhere in the shop you like. For the blower, I choose another Grainger part, the 5.7" bypass blower, Part #116392 at $64.00. This is a two stage unit that draws 8.6 amps at full power. The two-stage motor uses two vacumm impellers in series which produces a significantly higher pressure, so the output is high even when the motor is turned way down. Just about any blower or shop vac will work, it depends on how much noise you can put up with. To make installation easier, look into a two stage shop vac and just hook up the speed contoller. I would order the Granger catalog, its free. All you have to do is hook up 2" hose to the connector on the motor and run it to your shop. Then reduce to a smaller hose and into the Air Hood. The best price on the Hood that I could find is $55.00 from Sureflite (800)323-0611. And the most important thing to remember, install the vac or blower outside the shop area. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Jeff Schramm brought up something that maybe of concern. >Sounds great - I'd like to see the parts list posted. >I've heard of problems with compressor motors delivering atomized machine oil >into the airflow. This can probably be filtered out fairly easily. You also >want to make sure you're using nontoxic hose - you can get it at medical >supply stores. Marc N425CZ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:23:10 -0500 From: william l kleb Subject: epoxy pump closet i know that at least a few of you have built an epoxy pump closet featured on page 80 of the april 1992 sport aviation. i figure i should make use of the furlough, but i haven't yet received the epoxy pump from aircraft spruce. can someone recommend inside dimensions for the box? --and an idea about where to locate/hinge a door? thanks, bil (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) (i'll post an updated materials list, wiring diagram, and plan drawing if i succeed in this endeavor.) From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: epoxy pump closet Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 7:41:47 EST bil kleb asked; > >i figure i should make use of the furlough, but i haven't >yet received the epoxy pump from aircraft spruce. can someone >recommend inside dimensions for the box? --and an idea about where >to locate/hinge a door? My box measures 17" wide, 18" high and 11" deep. These are all INSIDE dimensions. I built a crappy 1/4" plywood box with a bottom and three sides. I then used 2" foundation foam insulation (basically the same stuff the wings are made of, but cheaper :-) ) to line the inside and top. I mounted a thermostat, thermometer and a 25 watt bulb inside, and keep it at about 85 deg. F. I made a front door from the same 2" foam with a couple of handles glued to it - no hinge - I just let the door hold itself in place via friction (and a well placed nail jabbed into the foam on the side). The whole pump is inside the box. Lee Devlin built a box with the handle sticking through the side, and the nozzles sticking out the front, and a hinge on the door. Somewhat nicer and a little easier to get at the epoxy. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:01:11 -0600 From: campbell@ee.umn.edu (faculty S. A. Campbell) Subject: Epoxy oven I happened to have an old Coleman cooler that worked very nicely. I just ran the wire to the lightbulb through the little hole that they provide to drain the water out of the cooler. 15 watts keeps my epoxy at about 90 F. You may want to line the bottom of the box with something that you can throw away periodically. Regards Steve Chapter 6 From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: epoxy pump closet Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:10:48 MST Marc wrote: > Lee Devlin built a box with the handle sticking through the side, and > the nozzles sticking out the front, and a hinge on the door. Somewhat > nicer and a little easier to get at the epoxy. >From memory, my box is 2' wide, 2' high and 1' deep. I have it lined with 1/2" foam insluation glued to the inside. The box is made out of 7/16" flakeboard and 2x2's. I have a door on the front that is hinged on the bottom which has a little shelf to hold the cup and catch the drips from the spouts. The spouts extend through a hole in the front. I also cut a slot in the side where an extension handle sticks out. The extension handle is made out of electrical conduit which I pounded rectangular on one end that slips over the aluminum handle on the pump. The pump is held in place with small toggle clamps. It's roomy inside so I can add epoxy without having to remove the pump unless I'm trying to get the last few ounces out of the can. I can also store the 5-minute epoxy bottles inside it as well. The temperature is controlled via a digital temperature controller which automatically adjusts the duty cycle of a 60W bulb. This is really only necessary if you allow the temperature in your shop to vary. In my case, my garage is unheated any time that I'm not working in it or allowing a layup to cure, so in my case, a temperature controller is necessary. Lee Devlin Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:23:00 -0500 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Re[2]: epoxy pump closet I made mine 1'x 2' x 2'. it is framed with 1x2's and the sides/fron/back are made of 1/4" wafer board. I used some styrofoam insulation board to fill in between the 1x2's to provide and insulated box. The fron is held on with two screen door latch hooks, one on the right and one on the left. I installed a sixty watt bulb on a dimmer switch for heat. All in all it took a Saturday afternoon up at our lake cabin (conveniently located on the east shore of Lake Winnebago -- directly opposite Oshkosh) to build it. I made it extra large and use it to store two Gal. of resin and two cans of hardner along with my 5-minute epoxy and Gel-9 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: epoxy pump closet Author: marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com at INTERNET Date: 12/19/95 7:42 AM bil kleb asked; > >i figure i should make use of the furlough, but i haven't >yet received the epoxy pump from aircraft spruce. can someone >recommend inside dimensions for the box? --and an idea about where >to locate/hinge a door? Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:58:01 -0500 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: Epoxy oven My epoxy box is approximately the same size is everyone elses. I made it out of scrap plywood and lined all interior surfaces with 1" builder's type insulation. It has a 40W bulb on the inside controlled by a light dimmer. No thermostat is necessary in my region (CA). I have the spouts sticking out the front, and a small door in the lower right corner that I can get my hand through to operate the pump handle. I used to keep the box at about 90-95F all the time. I've recently come to believe that Safe-T-Poxy "ages" quicker at higher temps, i.e. the hardener gets dark much quicker than if kept at lower temps. Now I'm keeping the box around 75" all the time, but increasing the temp before I do a layup. Stet Elliott Perpetual Long-EZ builder