Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 00:13:21 -0400 From: Ewestland@aol.com Subject: Controls Hey Fellows, I am starting to think about the controls and landing brake and could use a little help. I don't want to deviate from the plans too much and I would just as soon not have to order anything from Brock - they are just too expensive for what you get in my opinion. So, a few questions: 1) Does anyone have the address for Cable Craft or Boston Gear? 2) If you do order the Brock throttle quadrant, you have to rework it and replace a cable. Did anyone make their own? 3) How about the roll/pitch controls themselves? I saw plans advertised in the Central States newsletter for substitute controls - anyone try these or build their own? Thanks, Eric Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 17:48:19 +1000 From: allana@interconnect.com.au (allana@interconnect.com.au) Subject: Re: Controls >2) If you do order the Brock throttle quadrant, you have to rework it and >replace a cable. Did anyone make their own? I bought mine from Brock, however after looking at it I figure it would be very easy to make one up using fairly simple machine tools and would probably save a few bucks. Easily said when you have something to reverse engineer I suppose. The rework to suit the plans also looks very simple btw. Allan Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Got another question ... On Mon, 23 Oct 1995 Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com wrote: > something other than foam with a few layers of glass is used. For > instance, the aileron torque tube holes in the wings have a piece of > 1/4" phenolic with a hole for the tube glassed in place on the inboard > wing rib. The phenolic acts as a bearing. Some builders have even > used nylon bearings there. > Dick, On this aileron torque tube bearing, was a the same part used, just made out of nylon or is there a part that can be ordered. I am looking for something to replace the phenolic with since many builders report that the phenolic wears out quickly, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, Eric Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:13:00 -0400 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Re[2]: Got another question ... Eric, I'm investigating the nylon bushing myself. This week I will finish drilling the holes to connect the wings to the spar. The next step will be to cut out the ailerons and mount the control hardware. At my last EAA meeting I talked with Colin Koebel about some confusion I had on the plans depiction of the aileron control mechnaism. Colin was good enough to sketch things out for me. He is now flying a Long-eze and had some trouble with binding and wear using the phenolic bushing. He reamed out the hole in the phenolic so that the torque tube would slide through without touching the phenolic. The phenolic simply provided a base to mount a nylon bushing. Colin obtained a piece of nylon (1/4" thick he said) and drilled it out to provide a tight fit for the torque tube. He had been experiencing some problems with tightness and wear on the phenolic. Use of the nylon bushing seemed to ease the problem. Bottom line is that it was a do it yourself thing. Nothing purchased. Dick Finn ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Got another question ... Author: ewestlan@eagle.esd189.wednet.edu at INTERNET Date: 10/24/95 2:02 PM On Mon, 23 Oct 1995 Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com wrote: > something other than foam with a few layers of glass is used. For > instance, the aileron torque tube holes in the wings have a piece of > 1/4" phenolic with a hole for the tube glassed in place on the inboard > wing rib. The phenolic acts as a bearing. Some builders have even > used nylon bearings there. > Dick, On this aileron torque tube bearing, was a the same part used, just made out of nylon or is there a part that can be ordered. I am looking for something to replace the phenolic with since many builders report that the phenolic wears out quickly, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, Eric Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 09:01:29 EST From: "Wilhelmson, Jack" Encoding: 12 Text Subject: Re[3]: Got another question ... Dick: I used bushings turned from TFE Teflon. After nine years and 400 hrs. I have no complaints. The control system in my airplane is still tight and smooth. This material is rather expensive and hard to find. Most plastic specialty houses do have it. Nylon will also work, but it does not have the self lubricating qualities of TFE. There is a type of Nylon that is impregnated with graphite called polypenco nylatron. It is fromulated for bushings and bearings. This also would be available from plastic stock suppliers. Hope this info is a help. Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:15:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Wingroot Bearing In the wing root is a "bearing" for the aileron torque tube made of a piece if 1/4" thick phenolic. I have been looking for a possible substitute for a while now (thanks to those that have responded) since this phenolic block wears out quickly. I recently received a reply from Ken Miller on what he is using and thought I would share it with you. I have not been to a bearing supply house yet to check it out, so if someone gets there first, let me know what you think. Ken is a Long-EZ builder/pilot and occasional Central States contributor (if you're not getting the Central States newsletter, you're missing a lot) and from what I have read, very knowledgeable. Anyways, here is part of what he wrote: "Concerning the wingroot bearing, the part you need is a Heim #LHSSVV self-aligning, stainless, high temp, pre-lubricated bearing. Finding one is the easy part. You then need to get someone to turn a housing on the lathe. You will also need a flat aluminum plate to mount in the wingroot where the phenolic block was." Again, I have not seen it yet and I was hoping for a simpler solution, but for now I thought I would pass it along. BTW, sorry for leaving out the subject line on the turtle back posting. Later, Eric From: Sid & Mari Lloyd Subject: Torque tube bearings Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:49:31 -0600 I used the bearing kit that AeroCad offers which gives you roller = bearings and completely replaces the phenolic block. Also, use taper = pins instead of bolts on all torque tube fittings. They won't wear = elongated holes like bolts do. Sid Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Wingroot bearings (fwd) I received this from Ken and am forwarding it to all of you in case you want to contact him. Eric ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 26 Oct 95 09:26:36 EDT From: Ken Miller <75202.3245@compuserve.com> Subject: Wingroot bearings Hi, I was forwarded a message by you to someone else about the wingroot bearings. I took a picture of the housing off my airplane if you are interested. I can get the bearings, and am thinking about producing the housings if I have enough interest. Ken Miller Internet:75202,3245@Compuserve.com Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:59:15 -0700 From: Stet Elliott Subject: Re: Wingroot Bearing (Long) At 07:15 PM 10/25/95 -0700, Eric Westland wrote: >In the wing root is a "bearing" for the aileron torque tube made >of a piece if 1/4" thick phenolic. I have been looking for a possible >substitute for a while now (thanks to those that have responded) since >this phenolic block wears out quickly. I recently received a reply from >Ken Miller on what he is using and thought I would share it with you. I >have not been to a bearing supply house yet to check it out, so if >someone gets there first, let me know what you think. Ken is a Long-EZ >builder/pilot and occasional Central States contributor (if you're not >getting the Central States newsletter, you're missing a lot) and from >what I have read, very knowledgeable. Anyways, here is part of what he >wrote: > >"Concerning the wingroot bearing, the part you need is a Heim #LHSSVV >self-aligning, stainless, high temp, pre-lubricated bearing. Finding one >is the easy part. You then need to get someone to turn a housing on the >lathe. You will also need a flat aluminum plate to mount in the wingroot >where the phenolic block was." > >Again, I have not seen it yet and I was hoping for a simpler solution, >but for now I thought I would pass it along. I installed the self-aligning spherical bearings in the wing roots per the sketches given in the Central States Newsletter number 8. Yes, you'll have to have some cups machined for the bearings to fit into. The cups are then attached to the wing root area using a 1/4" plywood plate (aluminum would work too) under the glass with nutplates on the other side. Because the spherical bearing is thicker than the original phenolic, the plywood plate needs to be recessed around .3" deeper into the root. Other than the machine work, this is a relatively easy retrofit. For those of you who aren't familiar, these spherical bearings are similar in design to a rod end, where you have a ball with a hole in it fitted in an outer race or casing. But the outer casing of these bearings are round with no method of attachment. That's why you need to have the cups machined. My cups were basically a ring to hold the bearing casing, with an ear on either side for the attaching machine screws to pass through. The bearings I used were marked "NRR-10". All you really need is a spherical bearing with an ID of the torque tube. The OD doesn't matter because you'll have the cups machined to whatever OD you've got. You don't need fancy, aircraft quality bearings, because they see very little movement and heat (the wing root foam would melt before any bearing component would). I got my bearings from a local bearing house. The problem with a using any sort of a flat plate for a bearing, it being either phenonic, nylon or whatever, is that the aileron torque tube not only rotates about its axis, it moves in and out slightly, and also swings slightly fore and aft. (This movement is hard to visualize until you have your ailerons installed.) Any plate used as a bearing will have to be drilled slightly oversize to allow the fore and aft movement, and this will probably allow more play in the aileron control system. The spherical bearing rotates in its outer casing, allowing the fore/aft movement but limiting extra slop in the system. The ID of the spherical bearing should be a slip fit on the torque tube to allow for rotation and slight in and out movement of the tube. Anyone considering this retrofit should get their hands on Central States Newsletter #8. It tells all. Stet Elliott stetson@speed.net Perpetual Long-EZ builder