From: "jepplin" Subject: COZY: Cowl and exhaust pipes Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:36:38 -0600 I have a Lyc. O-360 with Saber 6 inch extension and the 4 pipe system per plans. Three bladed Catto prop. How far should the exhaust pipes protrude from the cowling? It seems that the stock length is long, there is about 6 inches of pipe out and they are not far from the prop. Also, what should the prop to cowl clearance be? Minimum or some distance? The stiffener in the upper cowl will limit the amount I can shorten it unless I remove it and make a new one placed farther forward. I only trimmed the trailing edge enough to make a smooth edge. Feather-lite cowling. Currently about 1 inch from the prop, can remove about another inch. Also any recommendations for a spinner? Would like a bolt on solution rather than making my own. What size and where to get one? Thanks for some direction here. John Epplin. Mk4 #467 From: "ZEITLIN,MARC (A-hsgAndover,ex1)" Subject: COZY: Cowl and exhaust pipes Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:51:12 -0700 John Epplin asks; > I have a Lyc. O-360 with Saber 6 inch extension and the 4 > pipe system per plans. Three bladed Catto prop. How far should the > exhaust pipes protrude from the cowling? I cut my exhaust pipes off just past the cowl, trying to keep the exhaust diffusing into the free stream as far upstream from the prop as possible (I have the 8" prop extension, so I get 2" on you right off the bat). > what should the prop to cowl clearance be? I had exactly the same issues - I cut the cowl back as far as I could, right up to the edge of the stiffener - everything I read in the CSA newsletter seemed to indicate that the further from the trailing edge of the wing/cowl the prop was, the more efficient it would be. Hence the 8" extension, rather than a 4" or 6". > Also any recommendations for a spinner? Would like a bolt on solution > rather than making my own. What size and where to get one? I bought a spinner from Ken Miller ( http://www.long-ez.com/ ). It's a carbon reverse taper pressure recovery spinner, modeled after Klaus Savier's version. Comes with spinner, backing plate, flowguide (for between the extension and the flywheel - not sure I'm going to use it) and instructions for $400. Very nice, but pricey. I think I was the guinea pig on his mold - it took me 6 months to get the thing, but thankfully I was way behind on my schedule :-). Ken also sells prop bolts that are the right length for the Catto prop and the Saber extension. -- Marc J. Zeitlin marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu | http://cozy.canard.com Non Impediti Ratione Cogitantonis (C&C) From ???@??? Sun Mar 24 22:34:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020325003018.PAZE16695.mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:30:18 -0500 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 16pINN-0001Fe-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:30:18 -0500 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01905; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00512 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:29:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00506 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:53 -0500 Received: from Paul ([12.80.54.170]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020325002601.TGJQ24238.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@Paul> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:26:01 +0000 From: "Paul Stowitts" To: "Cozy_Builders" Subject: COZY: Cooling/Thanks to Eric Westland Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:26:59 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c1d393$c6bfdb00$aa36500c@Paul> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Paul Stowitts" As with most EZ builders, I have been working on lowering my engine temps. I succeeded in getting each side to run at roughly the same temps but the #2/#4 side ran 10 to 20 degrees (C) cooler. I attributed this to having the oil cooler on the #1/#3 side. During cruise on a warm (not hot) day, my #3 cylinder would run at 190 degrees C. During climb it would get up to 220 degrees C. (The F equivalents are approximately 375 and 425 degrees, respectively.) Since my probes are on the bottom (cold) side, the top side could easily have been getting close to 500 degrees F. I was not happy with this especially since the weather had yet to get really warm as it does here in So. Cal. I was going through the Central States newsletters and came across Eric Westland's article on cooling. He wrote about measuring the airspeed in the NACA opening and comparing it with the Cozy's airspeed. The airspeed in the NACA scoop was considerably lower than the plane's airspeed. After numerous attempts, it was found that adding two small fences just past the speed brake solved the problem and his temps came down considerably. I decided to give this a try so I quickly fashioned the fences out of some leftover pieces of aluminum (RV builders are so messy) and stuck them on with carpet tape. It was too cloudy/windy yesterday to give them a try so I had to wait until today. All I can say is THANK YOU ERIC. I could not get my temps above 180 degrees C even on climbout! As soon as I leveled off and backed off the throttle a bit, they were down to 160/170 degrees C (approximately 330 degrees F). My oil temp was only 160 degrees F so I may have to block off some of my oil cooler in the cooler months (I changed over to a larger oil cooler earlier to reduce my oil temps). Eric mentioned his scoop is larger due to the cowling modifications for his engine so he wasn't sure if it would work for the stock built scoop. My scoop is completely stock so I can attest that it does indeed aid in cooling. Eric has a website with some photos and a drawing at http://home1.gte.net/res08ahw/VG/index.htm. Thanks again Eric. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV N166PT Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:05:35 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: COZY: Lycoming Primer Line Fact Sheet Greetings, Not many pilots have had a problem with primer lines but I did because of a lack of information on the subject. The Lycoming primer system as installed on production aircraft works without much problem. It is hard copper and connected to bottom cylinder head ports. The problem builders have is when buying a used engine the primer lines are usually missing. So we improvise. Some buy stainless steel tubing with soldered fittings, some buy Lycoming parts, and some use 1/8 inch soft copper with a soldered brass fitting that connects with a B nut to a special primer nozzle. These parts are sold at Wicks and ACS. The nozzle will not work with a 37° flared tube, but must have the brass insert soldered to the 1/8 inch tube. My primer lines all came apart after about 250 hours because I used the wrong solder. I thought solder was solder, but it isn't. The Wicks/ACS parts must be soldered like a gas pipe in your home, with silver and at a very high temperature. Today I went to a local repair station and had a chat with a guy I know who is the boss there. I asked about silver solder and he said it is a very difficult task with 1/8 inch tubing because the solder flows back into the tube. He's tried it and it did not work. They order all their replacement primer lines from a fuel injection shop. They have no tech order on how to make these parts. I then cranked up the Cozy and flew off to see another guy I know who overhauls engines. I described the problem and he asked why I was using a solder joint. It was then that I learned there are primer nozzles with an AN 37° flare. He had one to show me and promised to find several more by Monday. (These nozzles have a tiny hole and are not available from Wicks/ACS but certainly could be made with an AN816 steel nipple by welding it shut and drilling a small hole as we do for oil pressure sender lines sometimes) So those are the facts. Silver solder must be used with the Wick/ACS parts, but most of us probably can't do it right for lack of skill and or proper equipment. What am I going to do? My lines are OK for now and when I next change them out I will try the flared fitting. One guy responded earlier that he was using a flared fitting from a local hardware store and had no problem. I will try that if the AN nozzle is not available. dd Cozy MKIV N10C 0360-A4M From ???@??? Sun Apr 28 09:06:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020427133502.MENB352.mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:35:02 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 171SLu-0001TO-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:35:02 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25808; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24598 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:02:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24592 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:59:38 -0400 Received: from 1cust2.tnt2.oberlin.oh.da.uu.net ([67.211.108.2] helo=ix.netcom.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 171SII-0006ft-00 for cozy_builders@canard.com; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 06:31:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3CCAA884.6071C9DE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:32:52 -0400 From: Carl Denk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Cozy Builders Subject: Re: COZY: Lycoming Primer Line Fact Sheet References: <00c401c1ed7f$07e40ca0$13c11b41@cinci.rr.com> <3CCA076F.8D9B81CF@swbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Carl Denk Was said: These nozzles have a tiny hole and are not > available from Wicks/ACS but certainly could be made with an AN816 steel > nipple by welding it shut and drilling a small hole as we do for oil > pressure sender lines sometimes Not sure, probably the hole is specially drilled, maybe even tapered in more than one way to atomize the fuel properly. Conservative would be to obtain the Lycoming original equip part. From ???@??? Tue Jun 04 00:17:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020604034229.WTIT28305.mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:42:29 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17F5DJ-0002sm-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:42:29 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15070; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09716 for cozy_builders-list; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:43:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09710 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:41:00 -0400 Received: from garbonzo ([4.47.232.176]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020604033747.YFPD10042.out006.verizon.net@garbonzo>; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:37:47 -0500 From: "Eric Westland" To: "Canard-Aviators@Yahoogroups.Com" , "Cozy Builders Mailing List" Subject: COZY: Oil Cooler Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:38:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Eric Westland" The oil cooler I had in our Cozy was an old one and it came time to replace it. I thought I would share what I found as there was some helpful discussion a few months back. I have an angle-valve IO-360 and they heat up the oil pretty well. Not only are they making 50 HP per cylinder, but the pistons are cooled with oil spraying nozzles. The previous cooler was a 16 row Harrison and it cooled the oil very well always staying between 180 and 200 degrees. However, to replace it directly was over $700, so I looked at all the options for replacing it with a new one. After reading through the archives, I decided to go with an Aero-Classics (http://www.aero-classics.com/cooldc.htm) 8000215. As reported earlier, now that they have their PMA's, the stock of low-cost experimental coolers was drying up fast. However, Pacific Oil Cooler (http://www.oilcoolers.com/) had a few of these 13-row coolers left that were not PMA and said I could buy one for $240. That was fine by me, but I needed to double check a few measurements, so I waited to order. I'm glad I did. The next morning, I saw where Chief Aircraft had the PMA'd 8000215 for $213. However, they were out of stock when I called and one would need to be drop shipped. Not wanting to wait, I called back Pacific Oil Cooler and talked with Skid (no typo) and asked him if he would send me a PMA'd unit for $213 and he agreed. They got it out right away and it came very well packaged. Now that it's in, it seems to be cooling just as well as the old one, so I probably had too much cooling capacity with the old cooler. _______________________________________ Eric Westland Cozy Mark IV N325PD http://home1.gte.net/res08ahw/index.htm Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:08:12 -0700 From: Kent/Jackie Ashton Subject: COZY: break-in temps, NACA inlets Hi, Would like to hear experience on how much the CHTs will drop during the break-in procedure. My new O-360/Cozy IV was hitting 420 on #3,4 on the first flight, nose gear down, using bayonet sensors on the bottom in 93 degree weather here in N.C.. I enlarged the air deflectors in the bottom of the cowl and opened up the baffling a little on #3,4, retracted the nose gear (I've got a 3" wide nose strut fairing). That helped even things some but after five hours, I'm seeing around 400 or so on the hottest cylinder at about 75% power. The others are 370-390 I put a pitot tube in the NACA inlet and saw 18-20 knots lower IAS than I was reading on the nose pitot and big rapid fluctuations in the inlet IAS. Put some 4" by 3/4" VGs in front of the NACA as suggested by Eric Westland and saw only 10 knots lower in the NACA scoop and steady indications. I'm still fiddling with position on the VGs. I found an inch left or right made a big difference. Seems to me that if all the CHTs were even but high, and the inlet flow was within 10 knots of freestream IAS, I might need to enlarge the NACA scoop. Then again, it is 93-95 degrees this week with five hours on the engine. Opinions? --Kent Ashton From: "Eric Westland" Subject: COZY: Exhaust Pipe Clamps? Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:26:32 -0700 Dear Nat and All, In the most recent newsletter we are instructed to clamp each side's exhaust pipes together with a stainless steel hose clamp just forward of the baffling. At first thought that made sense, but I'm wondering if heat expansion of the individual pipes might cause stresses somewhere else in the pipes? Additionally, they are each attached to an independent cylinder, firing at different times. We don't share a common piece of baffling between the cylinders because vibration may cause it to crack, what would make the exhaust pipes different? I'm respectfully asking these questions looking for clarification in an important area. I appreciate the efforts that go into the newsletter and this group. Warm Regards, Eric _______________________________________ Eric Westland Cozy Mark IV N325PD http://home1.gte.net/res08ahw/index.htm Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 16:41:11 -0400 From: Carl Denk Subject: Re: COZY: Exhaust Pipe Clamps? Eric Westland wrote: > In the most recent newsletter we are instructed to clamp each side's exhaust > pipes together with a stainless steel hose clamp just forward of the baffling. > At first thought that made sense, but I'm wondering if heat expansion of the > individual pipes might cause stresses somewhere else in the pipes? > > Additionally, they are each attached to an independent cylinder, firing at > different times. We don't share a common piece of baffling between the > cylinders because vibration may cause it to crack, what would make the exhaust > pipes different? The pipes do move relative to each other due to various temperature combinations of the 2 pipes and engine. I feel that they should not be tied to each other. But if left loose against each other they will wear flat spots on each other. Also where the pipes go through the aluminum baffle I noticed fretting of the pipe. My solution was to wrap each pipe with .012" stainless and clamp with a worm drive clamp on each pipe. The wrap projects trough the baffle plus an 1/8", and forward enough to be fully under the clamp. The stainless acts as a wear surface, and the clamp will keep the pipe from contacting the prop and clamping the stainless. The fretting at the baffling could be a stress riser resulting in a cracked pipe. Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 15:24:42 -0700 From: "V. Atkinson" Subject: COZY: clamp > > >In the most recent newsletter we are instructed to clamp each side's exhaust >pipes together with a stainless steel hose clamp just forward of the baffling. >At first thought that made sense, but I'm wondering if heat expansion of the >individual pipes might cause stresses somewhere else in the pipes? > Herb Sanders was the first to try the 4 pipe system here in the Ft Worth - Dallas area. There were 4 of us involved in the experiment, 2 longs and 2 cozys. We found out that each of us gained a minimum of 100 RPM with the change. We also found out the pipes cannot be welded to each other but need to float, but be held together. This precipitated a stainless steel band, about a half inch wide encircling the pipes about 5 or so inches from where the exhaust comes out... yeah the business end. This band was spot welded to one pipe, but left free for the other pipe to "float" in. This worked great until the spot welds cracked and broke. One of the early temp fixes was to clamp a SS band after the spot welded bands to stop the welded band from going through the prop if it broke in flight. What we eventually did was to weld the band solidly on the bottom pipe, which was an overkill, but was eventually sorted it out to what you have nowadays. The SS clamp is sort of a safety catch if one of the pipes breaks. I have one on my pilots side exhaust to clamp the breather tube nestled in the crevice of the two pipes. The breather does two things in this position. Heats the pipes so it cant freeze and with a Kerf on the end, will depart oil cleanly into the aft air ( and prop blade of course) but wont streak the cowl or drizzle off the cowl. Ive used this setup for 15 years and replaced the aluminum breather tube once due to erosion of it rubbing on the SS pipes. Vance Atkinson EAA Tech and Flt advisor N43CZ From ???@??? Tue Aug 06 22:23:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020806145533.WNYQ336.mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:55:33 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17c5kD-0000VC-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:55:33 -0400 Received: from canard.com (lidar.net [64.246.36.7]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16635; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wright@localhost) by canard.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g76EqhG30232 for cozy_builders-outgoing; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:52:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: twctex.lidar.net: wright set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from twctex.lidar.net (root@localhost) by canard.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g76EqfE30227 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:52:42 GMT X-ClientAddr: 192.25.240.37 Received: from msgbas2.cos.agilent.com (msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.37]) by twctex.lidar.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g76Eqen30221 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:52:41 GMT Received: from msgrel1.cos.agilent.com (msgrel1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.77]) by msgbas2.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3F31F9A for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axcsbh1.cos.agilent.com (axcsbh1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.143]) by msgrel1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6DD314F for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 130.29.152.143 by axcsbh1.cos.agilent.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 06 Aug 2002 08:53:50 -0600 Received: by axcsbh1.cos.agilent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <355NCVNR>; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:53:50 -0600 Message-ID: From: "ZEITLIN,MARC (A-hsgAndover,ex1)" To: cozy_builders@canard.com Subject: COZY: Turning Pickled Engines Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:53:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "ZEITLIN,MARC (A-hsgAndover,ex1)" Wayne Hicks asks; >My next-door-neighbor, who builds engines for hydroplanes, >suggested that I >rotate my IO-360 Lyc a few degrees each month to relieve the >stresses and forces on the valve springs. Huh? >Is there any logic to this? You're an engineer - does it make any sense to you? The valve springs are in compression all the time, even when the valve is up all the way, and even when the valve is down all the way and the spring is completely compressed, it's still in the elastic deformation range (if it's plastically deforming, I'm never coming near your airplane :-) ). As long as it's not really hot (like maybe 500 degrees farenheit) in your hangar, your valve springs will not creep under stress, and since they're not moving, there's no fatigue. So no, this theory makes not a whit of sense, at least based on the valve spring stress issue. Maybe there's some other reason to do this, but he hasn't articulated one. Well, it does let the gremlins out, but that's only in special cases, and only if the exorcism doesn't work :-). >My engine is pickled and I thought the theory was once >pickled, leave it alone until you're ready to fly. That's what I've heard. I rotated the crank of my preserved engine a few times for various reasons, but not much. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ http://www.cozybuilders.org/ Copyright (c) 2002