Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:24:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin R. Walsh" Subject: COZY: FARs, Repairman's Certificate, and Unfinished Projects All- It seems that purchasing an unfinished project is an attractive way to get several years head start on a project, assuming that the work the original builder did is good work. The project can come in several stages of finishing, each with a different set of requirements as far as completion is concerned: 1) Less than 50% ("The 51% rule"). This is the simple case. I could finish the plane, register it myself, and apply for and receive the repairman's certificate. My question here is, what stage on a Cozy/Long does the FAA usually agree is 50%. I have been told that projects as late as chapter 22 have qualified as under 50%. Does anyone have any experience in this area? I know that projects are usually 90% finished with 90% to go, but does the FAA seem "structure complete" as under 51%? 2) More than 51%, but no airworthiness certificate awarded. In this case, according to my interpretation of FAR Part 43.3(d), if I were to complete the plane and have my work signed off by an A&P, I could register the plane, but all work (annuals, etc) would also have to be signed off by an A&P. This is obviously less attractive than case 1, as I understand that most A&Ps are risk averse and not likely to want to deal with experimentals at all. The other option here would be to get an A&P myself, although the class time required for this would probably be prohibitive. 3) The plane has been completed and issued an airwortiness certificate at one time, and may or may not have one now. This seems to me to be the same as case 2. All work signed off by an A&P per FAR 43.3(d) Sorry for the long question, but if I could get a good read on this it will certainly help me in my search for an unfinished project. I also think that many of us may find ourselves in this same place, as many projects come up for sale for barely more than the cost of the materials, and the completion rate for plans built planes seems to be so low, hence there are many unfinished projects to choose from. Thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:55:14 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: FARs, Repairman's Certificate, and Unfinished Projects Kevin Walsh wrote: >1) Less than 50% ("The 51% rule"). This is the simple case. I could >finish the plane, register it myself, and apply for and receive the >repairman's certificate. My question here is, what stage on a >Cozy/Long does the FAA usually agree is 50%..... >2) More than 51%, but no airworthiness certificate awarded....... >3) The plane has been completed and issued an airwortiness certificate >at one time, and may or may not have one now. This seems to me to be >the same as case 2...... There are some basic misconceptions embodied in these questions that have been hashed over many times on rec.aviation.homebuilt (and I think are in the FAQ for that newsgroup). Basically, it boils down to this: The 51% rule does NOT apply to the repairman's certificate - only to the ability to get the aircraft certificated in the "Experimental - Amateur Built" category. No matter WHO built the plane, or how many people worked on a zillion tiny bits of it, as long as at least 51% of it was built by someone doing so for "educational or recreational purposes" (and ANY plans built will qualify if built by conforming builders - e.g. a COZY or L.E.) then you can get it certificated in the "Exp. - Am. Built" category. This has NOTHING to do with the Repairman's certificate for that particular plane. >From FAR 21.191 : (g) Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation. The "major portion" statement is what has been turned into the "51% rule". >From 43.1: (b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued, unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously been issued for that aircraft. This means that Experimental aircraft don't have to meet the requirements of the rest of section 43 (as Kevin quoted above), even if you DON'T have the repairman's certificate. ANYONE can work on the plane - only an A&P (doesn't have to be an IA) or the R.C. holder can sign off the annual conditional inspection. >From FAR 65.104 (requirements for R.C.): (1) Be at least 18 years of age; (2) Be the primary builder of the aircraft to which the privileges of the certificate are applicable; (3) Show to the satisfaction of the Administrator that the individual has the requisite skill to determine whether the aircraft is in a condition for safe operations; and (4) Be a citizen of the United States or an individual citizen of a foreign country who has lawfully been admitted for permanent residence in the United States. Any one of the builders of the aircraft can apply for the repairman's certificate. (2) is the issue - who is the "primary" builder? There is NO requirement that the "primary" builder have built more than 51% of the aircraft. There are many groups of people that have built aircraft, and one of them is chosen to get the R.C. This is no different, however the building is spread out sequentially. Probably the only way you wouldn't get it is the plane had been certificated previously and the repairman's certificate had already been given. Kevin's scenario (3) might fit this category. In that case, you'd have to convince the inspector that you totally rebuilt the plane from component parts and that you need to re-certificate it and get a new repairman's certificate. Hope this clears up some misconceptions about Experimental Amateur Built aircraft certification and the Repairman's Certificate. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/