Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:21:29 -0700 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Subject: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid Hi Marc, > So the question is, where can I get a quart of aircraft brake fluid, which > ought to last a few years? I've talked this over with Parker-Hannifan (mfg.'s of the o-rings for Matco, me, and that most all others use), and with Matco, and you can use DOT 5 brake fluid -- cheap, lots of benefits over the old MIL 5606, and can be had at any K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc.). So I'm using DOT 5, and Matco has said so does Velocity. Call me any time if you have any questions. Infinity's Forever ( http://www.flash.net/~infaero ), JD Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:22:14 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Brake Fluid I wrote; > So the question is, where can I get a quart of aircraft brake > fluid, which ought to last a few years? Don't know what I was (or wasn't) thinking - of course (as a few have suggested privately) both Wicks and Aircraft Spruce carry brake fluid. It was also suggested privately that I use Silicone DOT 5 car brake fluid. I had already called MATCO and asked them if this was OK prior to asking my question, because I know where the local auto parts store is :-), but they said they didn't know if it was OK. They said they use Buna-N (Nitrile) O-rings, and that if the Silicone fluid mfg. said that was OK, then it would work. I have since found some compatibility specifications for Silicone oils with Buna-N, with ALL manufacturers claiming that it's completely compatible, but one other guy saying it's not. (Nothing like definitive facts, eh? :-) - I'll trust the manufacturers on this one). Another person asked privately why we couldn't use standard automotive brake fluid. Interestingly enough, it looks as though Buna-N is NOT compatible with standard auto brake fluid due to the completely different chemical composition of the aviation MIL-H-5606 and automotive DOT-3 and DOT-4 fluids, so DON'T use them. The temperature ranges are NOT the issue here - chemical compatibility is. Anyway, it looks as though it's OK to use the Silicone DOT-5 fluid with the MATCO brakes (possibly the Clevelands as well - they also use Buna-N O-rings), as well as the standard aviation brake fluid. Since there's at least one person that has been using Silicone in his brakes for over 10 years without a problem (and it's not flammable, while the aviation fluid is), I figure I'll try the Silicone. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Thu May 31 22:57:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010601005616.EMHP16109.mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:56:16 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 155dEe-0001cs-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:56:16 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA00334; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08790 for cozy_builders-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:00:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from smtp.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (SMTP.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.18.80]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08784 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:59:38 -0400 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by smtp.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V5.2-33 #37476) id <0GE8008017QL6D@smtp.slac.stanford.edu> for cozy_builders@canard.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpserv1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (SMTPSERV1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.18.81]) by smtp.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V5.2-33 #37476) with ESMTP id <0GE8005FJ7QLC5@smtp.slac.stanford.edu> for cozy_builders@canard.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agamemnon.slac.stanford.edu ([134.79.18.86]) by smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V5.2-33 #37476) with ESMTP id <0GE800K6Y7QLGB@smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu> for cozy_builders@canard.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by AGAMEMNON.SLAC.Stanford.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:53 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:52 -0700 From: "Rogers, C. Howard" Subject: RE: COZY: Brake Fluid To: "Cozy (E-mail)" Message-id: <76A109862EAED4119176009027EECD1E51E281@AGAMEMNON.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Rogers, C. Howard" Marc, Let me say that I have no direct experience with the silicone brake fluid, but I have considerable experience with silicone oils and greases, here at the lab. While fluid flammability could be an issue with large quantities, such as are found in bigger aircraft hydraulic systems, there is such a well-contained small amount of it in our brake systems, I don't think it is an issue. On the other hand, I know, from experience, that it is not at all uncommon to spill brake fluid during the normal servicing and filling operations. While mineral oil is easily dissolved and washed away with any number of detergents and solvents I'm sure you are already familiar with, Silicone oil is impervious to almost everything. To be blunt, NOTHING takes it off, satisfactorily. This is death to any future epoxy or paint work you could want to do, in that area, such as in a repair. I have also heard (strictly rumor here) that water retention in silicone is worse. I ran 5606 in my Grumman Bra! ! kes for ten years without incident, too, so until someone can show me some real benefit of the silicone, I will stick with the stuff I can clean up if I spill it! -Howard Rogers From: VHarris509@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:00:48 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Brake Fluid Just a word to the wise, 5606 is flamable but at 700 degrees. That's why the airlines and the military use it. Also, if for some reason you need brake fluid and you are using the auto brand please do not use 5606 behind it or visaversa. it will destroy the o-rings. So, if in an emergency you have to use the other brand when you get home change you orings and flush the system. Another bad point to the other brand is if it leaks through into the skin of you eze and you have to paint in that area good luck. It will fish eye bigger then do da..... been there and done that...5606 is removable with acetone. Glad to hear that you have done your research. Most people don't, then we get to clean up the messes..... Valerie From ???@??? Thu May 31 22:57:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010601015023.GZVN296.mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:50:23 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 155e51-0006Z5-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:50:23 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA09637; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09350 for cozy_builders-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:53:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from imf06bis.bellsouth.net (mail106.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.46]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09344 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:53:11 -0400 Received: from farmcats ([209.214.174.25]) by imf06bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010601014551.XSZL17361.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@farmcats> for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:45:51 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c0ea3c$5df2bb60$19aed6d1@farmcats> From: "Colby and Elise Farmer" To: "cozy group mail" Subject: COZY: Cozy brake fluid Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:44:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Colby and Elise Farmer" Hi all, I have been using dot5 brake fluid in my clevelands for three years without incident. It seems I read an account some years ago where a failed nylaflow brake line squirted some 5606 on a hot brake rotor causing a fire. Does anyone remember this? Colby Farmer N93CF From: "james leturgey" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:18:53 Marc: If you've haven't seen the aircraft fluid burn, you don't want to. I had the misfortune to be with a good friend when he melted the gear leg and the biggest problem was trying to put out the burning brake fluid. Thought we were going to lose the whole plane. DOT 5 is silicon based and does no burn. Jim >From: "LCDR James D. Newman" >Reply-To: "LCDR James D. Newman" >To: "Canards 'R' Us" >Subject: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid >Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:21:29 -0700 > >Hi Marc, > > > So the question is, where can I get a quart of aircraft brake fluid, >which > > ought to last a few years? > > I've talked this over with Parker-Hannifan (mfg.'s of the o-rings for >Matco, >me, and that most all others use), and with Matco, and you can use DOT 5 >brake >fluid -- cheap, lots of benefits over the old MIL 5606, and can be had at >any >K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc.). > So I'm using DOT 5, and Matco has said so does Velocity. > Call me any time if you have any questions. > > >Infinity's Forever ( http://www.flash.net/~infaero ), > > JD > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 01 18:50:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010601203743.LCJ16109.mta03.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:37:43 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 155vfz-0003Tq-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:37:43 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA18463; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18759 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:40:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f64.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.64]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18752 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:40:22 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:58:45 -0700 Received: from 132.233.247.6 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:58:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.233.247.6] From: "Ryan Amendala" To: cozy_builders@canard.com Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy brake fluid Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:58:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2001 17:58:45.0419 (UTC) FILETIME=[805927B0:01C0EAC4] Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Ryan Amendala" I do recall hearing that (or a similar story) a couple years back. They also mentioned that their 3lb fire extinguisher was not sufficiant in putting out the fire. A 2nd extinguisher had to be used (I believe someone arrived with the 2nd extinguisher). Ryan Cozy MKIV #855 Finishing up Chapter 5 Murphy Rebel N667BA taxi tests ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Colby and Elise Farmer" Reply-To: "Colby and Elise Farmer" To: "cozy group mail" Subject: COZY: Cozy brake fluid Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:44:15 -0500 Hi all, I have been using dot5 brake fluid in my clevelands for three years without incident. It seems I read an account some years ago where a failed nylaflow brake line squirted some 5606 on a hot brake rotor causing a fire. Does anyone remember this? Colby Farmer N93CF _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 01 18:50:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010601210638.EFMN312.mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:06:38 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 155w7y-00044x-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:06:38 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA25086; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19354 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:10:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from imf06bis.bellsouth.net (mail106.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.46]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19347 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:09:42 -0400 Received: from mglink ([209.214.119.226]) by imf06bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010601210215.MPKE17361.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@mglink> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c0eade$80527220$e277d6d1@mglink> From: "Michael Link" To: References: Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:04:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Michael Link" ----- Original Message ----- From: "james leturgey" To: ; Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid > Marc: > > If you've haven't seen the aircraft fluid burn, you don't want to. ......... Guys, There is more of a chance of having a brake fluid fire than many may think. I had a brake pad get stuck on landing rollout and the caliper got so hot that it partially melted the Nylaflow line by conducted heat (not reflected heat from the rotor). The fluid leaked onto the hot brake components but did not catch fire primarily because it was DOT-5. Unlike what someone posted, DOT -5 is hydrophobic--it repels water. All other commonly used brake fluids, including aircraft red is hygroscopic--- they absorb water. The water is the root cause of corrosion in brake systems. The pitting of aluminum components requires water to be present for the reaction to take place. Silicone is essentially inert, and is thus compatible with a wide variety of seals. (It is not compatible with other brake fluids and requires thorough flushing of systems previously charged with other fluids. Disassembly of components is required). I have been using DOT-5 for several years without problems. (The hung brake was unrelated). I also switched to 1/8th stainless brake lines and I like that mod as well. Michael Link Cozy MK-IV N-171-ML Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 19:16:24 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Brake Fluid Michael Link wrote: >Unlike what someone posted, DOT -5 is hydrophobic--it repels water. All >other commonly used brake fluids, including aircraft red is hygroscopic--- >they absorb water. The water is the root cause of corrosion in brake >systems. The pitting of aluminum components requires water to be present for >the reaction to take place. While all this is true, water can still enter the brake system with the DOT-5 Silicone fluid - it just doesn't get absorbed by the fluid - it stays in globules and migrates to the lowest point in the system. Probably not a big deal, given the experiences of the people who have stated they've used if for a long time, but I just didn't want the impression left that the Silicone fluid will somehow magically keep water out of your system. Anyway, this has been a fascinating discussion - there are far more people using the Silicone fluid than I would have suspected, and that's good, because we've got more positive data points. Now, Howard Rogers' point that you better not get it on anything that you will ever want to epoxy to or paint, because it won't work, is the one and only issue that makes me think twice about using it. However, once again, there are enough people that have been using it for long enough that there seems to be a way to be careful enough not to get it on the outside of the plane that it probably isn't a big deal. Didn't think I'd kick off such a big discussion with a question on where to buy a quart of brake fluid :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Fri Jun 01 21:24:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010602005905.GYNL296.mta05.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:59:05 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 155zkv-0000WS-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:59:05 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f105.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.105]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA06888 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:58:33 -0700 Received: from 208.28.190.154 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:58:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.28.190.154] From: "james leturgey" To: marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu Cc: cozy_builders@canard.com Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:58:33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2001 00:58:33.0906 (UTC) FILETIME=[25DB4120:01C0EAFF] Marc- there is a material called "Polycracker" that breaks down the silicon and allows it to be washed away with soap and water (so they claim). Never used it but I believe someone wrote something in one of the CP's about it. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 01 22:26:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010602013744.JFWF312.mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:37:44 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 1560MJ-00001o-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:37:43 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA11789; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21771 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:41:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from imf04bis.bellsouth.net (mail104.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.44]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21765 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:41:06 -0400 Received: from mglink ([209.214.117.196]) by imf04bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010602013338.PSZA20036.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@mglink> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:33:38 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c0eb04$60606320$c475d6d1@mglink> From: "Michael Link" To: "Cozy Builders Mailing List" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601190655.00ac6800@pop.rcn.com> Subject: COZY: Re: Brake Fluid Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:35:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Michael Link" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" To: "Cozy Builders Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: COZY: Brake Fluid > > Michael Link wrote: > > >Unlike what someone posted, DOT -5 is hydrophobic--it repels water. All > >other commonly used brake fluids, including aircraft red is hygroscopic--- > >they absorb water. The water is the root cause of corrosion in brake > >systems. The pitting of aluminum components requires water to be present for > >the reaction to take place. > > While all this is true, water can still enter the brake system with the > DOT-5 Silicone fluid - it just doesn't get absorbed by the fluid - it stays > in globules and migrates to the lowest point in the system. Probably not a > big deal, given the experiences of the people who have stated they've used > if for a long time, but I just didn't want the impression left that the > Silicone fluid will somehow magically keep water out of your system........ Marc Virtually all water that gets into brake systems come from absorption of atmospheric water vapor by the hygroscopic brake fluid. I have disassembled my brake system twice in order to check on how the DOT -5 was affecting the brake system. I found no water globules and no corrosion. Obviously, I need to check over a longer period of time before drawing any conclusions, but I believe that water migration via the piston seals in the caliper is made even more unlikely when bathed in silicone , a water repellant. It does work like magic....sort of. Michael Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:48:43 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Brake Fluid reprise james leturgey write: >Marc- there is a material called "Polycracker" that breaks down the silicon >and allows it to be washed away with soap and water (so they claim). Never >used it but I believe someone wrote something in one of the CP's about it. Which prompts me to start searching the web, and Nat's own company 3M makes a solvent called Prep Solvent-70 which claims to take off Silicone as well. Assuming that 3M wouldn't claim something that isn't true, then the last remaining objection to DOT-5 Silicone brake fluid has bit the dust :-). And this dead horse is well and truly beaten :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Sat Jun 02 23:09:42 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20010602142528.OJNB4003.mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:25:28 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 156CLH-0005aT-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sat, 02 Jun 2001 10:25:27 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA06836; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA29750 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 02:28:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29743 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 02:26:26 -0400 From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Received: from SWrightFLY@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id j.90.153e2a31 (3846); Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90.153e2a31.284a4f7a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:17:30 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Brake Fluid reprise To: marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu, cozy_builders@canard.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: SWrightFLY@aol.com In a message dated 6/1/01 9:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time, marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu writes: << And this dead horse is well and truly beaten :-). >> But before you shoot that sucker......Prior to putting DOT5 in....Its a good idea to clean out all the lubricant which are coating the new break parts then pump the DOT5 in. Steve Wright Wright Aircraft Works (Electric Nose-Lift) Stagger EZ N700EZ (under construction) Sponsor- Canard.com